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EVOlution 1 - Part 2 - Pokémon Poll 2!
- Thread starter darkie
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No i was just thinking about Dark/Fire houndoom and was wondering why didn't the shinx line get it, not why we're not changing it.
I agree with you on the Houndoom is "perfectly fine" it has flash fire which makes it great.
Wow... I'm really dissapointed with all these people throwing around all of this "Oh he's still usable" bullcrap. It is just a quicker version of Heatran, that can Nasty Plot. That's not much when it has a below average speed stat. Doom would probably sell its soul to the devil (no pun intended) to get Heatran's bulkiness. It has probably the 2nd worst defence stat after blissey, weakness to incredibly common types, and can only outspeed slow pokemon. We need an evo to him like we needed for Sneasel. Sneasel had the STAB problem in the previous generations, but in this generation, he just wouldn't be fast enough. But Weavile's increased speed helps him fill a unique role as a fast revenge killer. Lets compare them side to side: Sneasel had a 115 Speed, which is good, but it's 95 Attack makes it a terrible striking force. Weavile boosted it's speed by 10, to give it a unique speed tier, shared by few (possibly none, I just can't think of any base 125's now). It also gave it a 120 attack, a huge increase. Houndoom is basically the opposite. It has a respectable 110 Sp att, but only coupled with a base 95 Speed. It has a lot of potential imo, because it has a base 90 Att, that could make a decent mixed attacker. I just think that an evo with a much higher speed stat and possibly better physical stat and movepool could give a lot of potential. Atleast the second time this comes around, it's pretty much sure-fire to get an evo.
Edit: I misclicked and voted for Pinsir. Could someone switch it to a Houndoom vote? Not that Pinsir doesn't need an Evo, it's probably 2nd on my support list. Also, Farfy was meant to be crappy. That is why it is our duty to keep him, Luvdisk, Delibird, and Spinda from having evos. If Nintendo wants to correct their mistakes, then they can in the next generation.
I'm gonna go with girafarig.
Farfetched is likely going to win, and honestly the last three are very usable in either (Bannette) or OU (Houndoom, Pinsir to an extent). I don't see a reason to evolve pokemon that already have an establised niche, even if they're not that common.
Farfetched is likely going to win, and honestly the last three are very usable in either (Bannette) or OU (Houndoom, Pinsir to an extent). I don't see a reason to evolve pokemon that already have an establised niche, even if they're not that common.
the only reason that houndoom isnt a top ou is because there are other definitely ou fire and dark types that can perform his role better. this does not warrant him in need of an evolution. houndoom is certainly useful if you need a psychic counter. his defenses are not much worse than weavile's, and his stab attacks are almost as good. plus, he is a mixed attacker, something weavile cannot brag. houndoom is too good to evolve.
Explain how our evolution would have similar shortcomings when we control every aspect of it?
Also explain how that very same point could not apply to the Pinsir evo...
So 95 is below average? News to me. Electrivire does just fine with a base 95 speed stat, as does Gliscor. The big kicker is that it functions fine in OU. What more could you give it, base 115 speed? Big whoop, you now beat non-scarf Gengar, Celebi, and Jirachi. It has Nasty Plot along with a competant movepool. Its a tweak, not an evolution. I wouldn't support ANY spread with over 115 speed and/or special attack, because of Nasty Plot. Don't give me the Azelf arguement either: it has shitty STAB.
Houndoom was meant to have 110 SpA and 95 Spe. Syclant, Revenankh, Pyroak, Fidgit, and Stratagem aren't meant to exist. If Nintendo wants to correct their mistakes, then they can in the next generation. You can't just say "We shouldn't do X because Nintendo didn't intend for it to be that way.", because Nintendo didn't intend for the CAP project as a whole. Any one of those would be a perfectly viable evolution. Theres a ton of room for improvement, which makes the project more fun IMO. Houndoom doesn't have much room for improvement, which is why I didn't want to include BL Pokemon originally (and depending on how this turns out, I might try to change it).
Good to know that all three pokes I supported last poll are back.
Anyway, voting once again for Banette, even though it has almost no chance of being picked for this round (oh well, at least Houndoom is doing fine). It is a ghost-type that is completely different from the already existant OU ones and has the rather unique role of an annoyer-physical sweeper. Insomnia is a very useful ability and so is Frisk. Its movepool is quite good for an annoyer and only lacks some decent bulk and maybe a fighting attack to fight all those t-tar and weaviles.
As for the Houndoom being too good to deserve an evolution I have to disagree here. It is extremely frail in the physical side, being only slightly bulkier than Sharpedo, has a mediocre speed for a sweeper in the OU enviroment and only decent Spatk. Ninetales is much bulkier from both sides, has the same flash fire ability and is faster...and it is UU. I am not saying that Houndoom should be in the UU tier, god no, but I seriously believe that, with heatran around and all those 100 base speed pokes as well, Houndoom is weak enough to deserve an evolution.
Anyway, voting once again for Banette, even though it has almost no chance of being picked for this round (oh well, at least Houndoom is doing fine). It is a ghost-type that is completely different from the already existant OU ones and has the rather unique role of an annoyer-physical sweeper. Insomnia is a very useful ability and so is Frisk. Its movepool is quite good for an annoyer and only lacks some decent bulk and maybe a fighting attack to fight all those t-tar and weaviles.
As for the Houndoom being too good to deserve an evolution I have to disagree here. It is extremely frail in the physical side, being only slightly bulkier than Sharpedo, has a mediocre speed for a sweeper in the OU enviroment and only decent Spatk. Ninetales is much bulkier from both sides, has the same flash fire ability and is faster...and it is UU. I am not saying that Houndoom should be in the UU tier, god no, but I seriously believe that, with heatran around and all those 100 base speed pokes as well, Houndoom is weak enough to deserve an evolution.
In comparison to top OU Pokemon. It still has very good speed and special attack, and Nasty Plot to boost it.
So because it is outclassed it needs an evolution? Ursaring is outclassed by Machamp (save Quick Feet), lets evolve it! Snorlax is outclassed by Blissey as a wall and outclassed by Metagross as a bulky physical attacker, lets evolve it!
what is this changing vote nonsense!? that's not right at all. make your decision, then stick with it. do you get to revote in any other election in the absence of fraud? of course not. your vote is your voice, if you dont take time with it to choose the right thing, you don't get to bitch and change your vote.
sorry for the rant, but its an annoying trend that should be stopped now.
sorry for the rant, but its an annoying trend that should be stopped now.
I also disagree with this whole "Houndoom's already good" thing. Yes, it is, but due to its fairly slow speed for a sweeper, and its frail defense, it's outclassed by Heatran, despite its good offensive typing. Giving it a bit more speed and beefing up its defense a bit will give people more reason to use it. And with DJD's reasoning for it to be evolved, that would be good for the metagame and that's what this should be about; making an evolution that will have a good affect on the metagame and not just evolving a Pokemon simply because it completely sucks right now.
Congratulations you have described 2/3s of a Ninetales!
Ninetales has more speed, being able to tie with the insane variety of 100 speed pokes that roam at OU AND has Nasty Plot to boost its Spatk to rather powerful level AND bulk enough to survive a hit or two. It also has Hypnosis to make its stat up job easier.
But you aren't seeing Ninetales around, are you? nope.
Houndoom will die and be really close to it against any half decent physical attack (add SR in the mix and you will get something more frail than frigging sharpedo). Even if it does manage to get a nasty plot under its belt, the other player just needs to switch any half-decent sweeper with 100 or more speed to OHKO it without much trouble.
Hell, Porygon-z is much bulkier from the physical side as houndoom and a bit more on the special side, has also nasty plot, a MUCH better spatk and movepool, an ability that will make its attacks even more powerful and isn't weak to SR...and yet it has trouble sweeping teams.
How odd, I could swear that Ursaring was on your list of pokemons who could get an evolution on this round, wasn't it? gee, I wonder why. The fact that Ursaring wasn't chosen on this round is irrelevant. It is like saying that a Weather Changing poke isn't needed because the theme wasn't chosen on previous CAP rounds. Also, I don't see Machamp firing 210 BP attacks with a 130 ATK, do you? And for Snorlax....I don't see Blissey sweeping teams with body slams or Metagross shruging of Fire Blasts.
That fact that it is completely outclassed by heatran isn't the main point here. The point is that it is easily killed by any half-decent physical attack and it's only saving grace, Flash Fire, is much better used by Heatran. All that together makes Houndoom's niche in the OU metagame rather...small. And if it can't perform decently in the standard tier, it deserves an evolution, simple as that.
Meeh. Since Luvdisc is gone, i really find Farfetch'd the best then. Its as weak as Luvdisc anyway ;o; so i voted for farfetch''d
Thats great that Ninetales can do that, and its faster, but its UU and we aren't evolving it.
What does physical bulkyness have to do with sweeping? Its not supposed to take a hit if you want to raise the speed. If you want to make it bulky, don't raise the speed.
So you got me on Ursaring and the fact that Metagross and Blissey can't do what Snorlax does at the same time.
Alakazam is easily killed by any half-decent physical attack. So is Dugtrio. So is Gengar. What you don't get is that it DOES perform decently in the standard tier. I doubt you've tried any set of Houndooms, because if you did, you would know its actually a VERY good mixed Scarfer, Nasty Plotter, or even Specs. Can Heatran go mixed? Can Heatran switch in on psychic attacks? It still has a niche, which means that it CAN perform well in the standard tier. Arguably, Shedinja can't perform in the standard tier due to Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Sandstorm. We should give it an evolution!
Also, define decently in a non-subjective way.
Where have all the Banette boosters gone?
Must be thanks to Revenankh.
Alas. Oh well, looks like it will be Farfy Vs. Doom.
Must be thanks to Revenankh.
Alas. Oh well, looks like it will be Farfy Vs. Doom.
Houndoom has things to differentiate it from Heatran; NP, STAB Dark Pulse, etc...Pinsir has literally NOTHING besides Stealth Rock and a better defense stat to provide use against Heracross. I honestly think Pinsir is due for an evolution.
Voting Banette, though it probably won't help, for the reasons stated above.
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