First of all, i think comments like this really just don't add a whole lot to the discussion. Secondly, I'd like to go back to a post someone made not too long ago about if you should use the strongest pokemon for a moveset or if you should use a pokemon, then use its best moveset. Since 'ton and 'zone can learn all of the same moves and magnezone is almost strictly better, I'd say that there is little to no point at all of using magneton unless speed really, really matters to your team. So until someone comes up with a team that will make me eat those words and will bring magneton to the uber tier while leaving magnezone behind, magnezone is the right choice in 99% of all situations.
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Evolving Magneton...
- Thread starter Lou Cypher
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First of all, i think comments like this really just don't add a whole lot to the discussion. Secondly, I'd like to go back to a post someone made not too long ago about if you should use the strongest pokemon for a moveset or if you should use a pokemon, then use its best moveset. Since 'ton and 'zone can learn all of the same moves and magnezone is almost strictly better, I'd say that there is little to no point at all of using magneton unless speed really, really matters to your team. So until someone comes up with a team that will make me eat those words and will bring magneton to the uber tier while leaving magnezone behind, magnezone is the right choice in 99% of all situations.
This sounds good on paper, but agiligross can ruin your stratigy. (or ninjask passing speed to meta, I do that :P )
The only reason you'd want to use Magneton is for Speed, but that's far too situational for a Pokemon like that. It's really meant to Magnet Pull Steel types, and maybe surprise stuff with Hidden Power.
Agiligross ruins any advantage Magneton might have, so there's no point in that (unless you're playing a 2/3 metagame or something). Many Steel types are slower than Magnezone, as well (or get totally walled by it).
The problem with Agiligross is that you generally most carry Agility / Explosion, and that only leaves two attack slots. Most of these variants will be walled by a Skarmory / Bronzong / Cresselia, who can cripple Metagross by Whirwinding / Hypnosis / Thunder Wave or Reflect, forcing him to switch out. Ideally, it would be better to run a Choice Banded Metagross
Well, what's there to say? This is a topic about the merits of Magneton over Magnezone. Simply put, there really isn't any. This isn't like comparing Scyther to Scizor, it's more like comparing Onix to Steelix; there's no compelling reason to use the pre-evolution at all. Magneton's defensive stats are rather pathetic (assuming that we're investing few to no EVs in them, like the old standard) and just let its amazing resistances go to waste. It's still slow to the point it needs quite a few Speed EVs to outspeed the bulky water-types it can hit SE and is still 2HKOed by most of their Surfs.
Magnezone doesn't really solve the speed problem, but it sure bulks it up a whole hell of a lot and hits harder to boot. If Metagross is your only concern, max Timid at 240 (if not regular max Speed, most Metagross don't run full Speed anyway) is enough to outspeed virtually every Metagross you'll ever come across anyway. It has the defenses to actually take some hits now, so that lack of Speed isn't such a liability. Magneton was never anything but a Skarmory-killing gimmick in Advance.
About Magnezone's superior defenses: does it matter, anyway?
The only type that hits him for neutral is water, the rest is either resisted or super effective.
Tying with Metagross, Breloom, outrunning some Tyranitars, looks like good reasons to use Magneton instead of Magnezone.
Running max speed Metagross isn't a waste at all. OHKOing Tyranitars before they have a chance to dance is great.
The only type that hits him for neutral is water, the rest is either resisted or super effective.
Tying with Metagross, Breloom, outrunning some Tyranitars, looks like good reasons to use Magneton instead of Magnezone.
Running max speed Metagross isn't a waste at all. OHKOing Tyranitars before they have a chance to dance is great.
The superior defenses totally DO matter.
Lets observe the examples you gave:
Metagross: You shouldn't be switching into it, it shouldn't be switching into you.
Breloom: You REALLY shouldn't be switching into it. Magneton isn't going to kill it with HP and its just asking to be Sporepunched. If it already had Toxic Orb activated, Breloom will switch in on an expected Thunderbolt or Thunder Wave and proceed to smack you with a fighting move.
Tyranitar: If its CB, those defenses DO matter, A LOT. EQ rapes both of you. Even if you do max speed and special attack, your 13 resistances don't mean much when you've got Sub-300 HP and your better defensive stat doesn't hit 250. (You learned this the hard way in Advance)
50/95/70 is pathetic combared to 70/115/90. In raw numbers, Magnezone will always have 40 more HP, 40 more Defense, and 40 more special defense than Magneton, while losing only 20 speed. Magneton was cursed with middling speed anyway, and couldn't OHKO any on the three pokemon you mentioned. Even less so now regarding Tyranitar.
Whereas if you knew you were facing CB Groos, Magnezone could switch in and take Meteor Mash much better.
When is Tyranitar going to stay in against Metagross? Assuming they both come in on the same turn:
Turn 1:
They both come in
Turn 2:
Tyranitar uses Dragon Dance.
Metagross uses Earthquake
Now, Metagross is guaranteed to 2HKO Tyranitar with Earthquake, assuming it's the standard 252HP/232Atk/16Def EV spread, which is what I would use on any set besides ones using Agility (I wouldn't use special attacking Metagross, so disregard that one) because of the whole Dugtrio thing. Tyranitar does no more than 342 to you, and you have 364HP (and, for me in particular, this activates Leichi Berry). It takes you down to nearly dead, and your second Earthquake kills it.
Even if I didn't know that, I wouldn't really leave Tyranitar in on something like Metagross, especially knowing that it almost always has Earthquake.
Why would Metagross EQ when it has STAB super effective Meteor mash that always kills?
I see absolutely no reason to use Magneton over Magnezone. 20 speed in trade of a much needed boost in defense and an extra boost in sp.a is great, and the 20 speed loss isn't much considering it still out speeds what it needs to out speed. And at least now he's a reliable counter to bulky waters, since he doesn't die to two STABed surfs anymore.
My Bold Magnezone takes ~40% from a Swampert/Gliscor/Hippowdon's Earthquake when Reflect is up.
The defenses do matter. A lot. A lot more than the speed, at least. Also, like suggested, Metagross will either not care about speed at all (neutral, 0 EVs, which you can outspeed with a few EVs into Magnezone), or care about it a good deal (for Agility/Speed boost pass/Scarf/whatever), in which case Magneton wouldn't outspeed Metagross anyway. There's really no good reason not to evolve into Magnezone.
The defenses do matter. A lot. A lot more than the speed, at least. Also, like suggested, Metagross will either not care about speed at all (neutral, 0 EVs, which you can outspeed with a few EVs into Magnezone), or care about it a good deal (for Agility/Speed boost pass/Scarf/whatever), in which case Magneton wouldn't outspeed Metagross anyway. There's really no good reason not to evolve into Magnezone.
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