A good set for Doryuuzu is Choice Band. With sandstorm support and the ability Sand Throw it's an absolute beast
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Excadrill (Analysis)
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Doryuuzu @ Expert Belt Sand Throw
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
This set is supposed to be used with the obvious Sand Stream support. With SandThrow, plus a Jolly nature and 252 Speed EV's it outspeeds EVERYTHING. A lot of people like using balloon with it, but I think that is simply decreasing it's capacities. Expert Belt or Life Orb is the way to go, though I preferer using the first one because this set already has a great type coverage, and switching out isn't that much of a problem now if you need it, as Entry Hazards aren't used that much on this gen. This guy can sweep entire teams, and would probabily be unstoppable with a Swords Dance Batton Pass, but I cant say it for sure as I've never tested it.
So far, the only threat I've encountered is that fighting thing that allways uses Mach Punch, I don't remember the name and I don't feel like searching it :P
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
This set is supposed to be used with the obvious Sand Stream support. With SandThrow, plus a Jolly nature and 252 Speed EV's it outspeeds EVERYTHING. A lot of people like using balloon with it, but I think that is simply decreasing it's capacities. Expert Belt or Life Orb is the way to go, though I preferer using the first one because this set already has a great type coverage, and switching out isn't that much of a problem now if you need it, as Entry Hazards aren't used that much on this gen. This guy can sweep entire teams, and would probabily be unstoppable with a Swords Dance Batton Pass, but I cant say it for sure as I've never tested it.
So far, the only threat I've encountered is that fighting thing that allways uses Mach Punch, I don't remember the name and I don't feel like searching it :P
That set doesn't offer many advantages over the standard SD set. In particular, Shadow Claw offers mostly redundant coverage with X-Scissor, only giving you better coverage for Burungeru and Dusknoir/Dusclops (contact moves on Desukaan will ruin your sweep, and Gengar dies to a stiff wind). In addition to this, Expert Belt is lousy on Dory because while it has excellent neutral coverage in three moves, it has pretty ho-hum super-effective coverage.
As for counters, this doesn't counter other balloon Doryuuzu, and that's an essential job for Dory on any sand team. Sand vs. sand often goes to whoever can keep their Dory's Ballon/Chople Berry the longest, and you don't have one.
I agree, it works like a choice scarf terakion with more power. it can pretty much revenge kill the metagame.
If that was an argument to not use choiced ground/rock attack users then the metagame would be totally different. I think it at least deserves an OC mention.
Why hasn't Azumarill been listed as the main Doryuuzu counter? Bandmurill > Roobushin and Breloom in this instance. This is because Azumarill has more utility against sandstorm teams than either of them. If the opponent has Hippowdon as their weather starter, Mach Punch on the two won't do anything. Likewise, Aqua Jet takes a large amount off of Gliscor, can OHKO Randorosu (I believe) and all in all, be significantly more useful against sand teams in general. Roobushin can't OHKO Dory with Mach Punch if it's at full health. Likewise, many Doryuuzu have been seen running Chople Berry (something that might get slashed in as an item?)
Recommendations:
Chople Berry for item
Azumarill for counter
Likewise, when you said that something was more excellent, it made me want to choke a baby.
Recommendations:
Chople Berry for item
Azumarill for counter
Likewise, when you said that something was more excellent, it made me want to choke a baby.
Azumarill is a check, not a counter.
Aqua Jet and Mach Punch are mentioned near the top as well. In the final, just name a couple obvious ones (Azumarill, Breloom), but that's all.
Aqua Jet and Mach Punch are mentioned near the top as well. In the final, just name a couple obvious ones (Azumarill, Breloom), but that's all.
I've been using a kind of different set with Doryuuzu:
Doryuuzu @ Balloon
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Rapid Spin
Aerial Ace
Basically your Swords Dance set with Aerial Ace over Swords Dance. It actually works pretty well, since Aerial Ace OHKOes every Birijion I've met so far (not sure what their EV spreads are), and a +2 Return fails to OHKO.
Doryuuzu @ Balloon
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Rapid Spin
Aerial Ace
Basically your Swords Dance set with Aerial Ace over Swords Dance. It actually works pretty well, since Aerial Ace OHKOes every Birijion I've met so far (not sure what their EV spreads are), and a +2 Return fails to OHKO.
I think Aerial Ace could be "another option", since it seems for just Virizion (which you may or may not even encounter). It's a novelty at best, in my opinion, unless it hits other significant targets of note. X-scissor/Return seems to maintain a more substantial presence, but I get where Aerial Ace is coming from.
44lvlc0 said:
Hm, no. Read.
AccidentalGreed said:
Something that should be in AC IMHO: It also works with Sand Throw in Trick Room. Even though base 88 speed(IIRC) is pretty high, with the current metagame revolving around speed, with speed downing-nature and 0IVs it can "outspeed" a lot. Also, the sheer power of Sand Throw Dory is so impressive, it doesn't need any other setup than Trick Room, providing place for great coverage.
For any Pokemon that can "work" in Trick room, we normally don't write set analyses for them unless they actually work specifically in Trick Room. Minimizing Doryuuzu's Speed and giving it Trick Room support doesn't really warrant it a Trick Room analysis as like Rhypherior. Since a wide range of competitors can minimize their own Speeds (Dragonite, Uxie, Tyranitar, and friends) and "work" in Trick Room, they don't really warrant a TR set unless they have a specific niche.
Are you quite sure Sand Throw Doryuuzu works this way? Last time I checked, speed-boosting abilities pertaining to weather still apply to the Trick Room effect, so Doryuuzu would still be "too fast".
Why are we even talking about Sand Throw Dory in TR when Sand Strength Dory exists? Why are we talking about Trick Room at all?
This is a terribly silly tangent. There are harder-hitting, tougher, and slower/faster Pokemon to abuse Trick Room, Pokemon which aren't dead weight outside of it. Min-speed Doryuuzu is almost entirely outclassed by Rhyperior (who isn't that great to begin with).
This is a terribly silly tangent. There are harder-hitting, tougher, and slower/faster Pokemon to abuse Trick Room, Pokemon which aren't dead weight outside of it. Min-speed Doryuuzu is almost entirely outclassed by Rhyperior (who isn't that great to begin with).
Excadrill.
The new name (insert your opinion here).
Aside from that, everything looks good however, I would take out the Ubers from the counters and replace them with those who have weather roles that are legal such as Politoed, Abomasnow, Ninetales and Golduck. Still, it's risky throwing these guys in unless you time it extremely well.
Earthquake is not a contact move, nor is Rock Slide. Shadow Claw is, but I can't say I've ever seen anyone actually use it on Excadrill anyway. Super-effective Shadow Claw is weaker than STAB neutral EQ; pretty much the only time it's better than X-Scissor is on Gengar, who can't take a Rock Slide anyway.
That said, max def Bold Cofagrigius can take a +2 Earthquake (58.1% - 68.8%) and retaliate. Power Share ends the sweep (but nerfs Cofa's offensive ability by splitting its SpA with Excadrill's lousy SpA), WOW wrecks Excadrill but has lousy accuracy, Haze ends the sweep but Excadrill will KO Cofa in the bargain (+2 EQ plus +0 EQ plus sand damage = KO). Trick Room combined with Destiny Bond would also work.
chople/passho berry (i found :L ) to be very effective on Doryuuzu, as most teams rely on roob taking it out with a mach punch
Is anything happening here? The skeleton looks pretty much perfect except for a couple minor points. The biggest thing that would suggest would be to make Balloon the primary option with Life Orb slashed after it. Chopple Berry is also a nice option to mention in the set description for Mach Punchers, which are what most offensive teams use to check Dory. I also think for Dory's (Excadrill's?) fourth move, it should be Return / X-Scissor / Rapid Spin, since there's no reason for Shadow Claw when Earthquake hits Burungeru / Psychics just as hard and Gengar loses to a +2 Rock Slide anyways. Any mention of Uber Pokemon obviously need to be removed too.
Choice Band needs to be mentioned somewhere, since it's really good for softening up checks and counters, especially considering Doryuuzu doesn't always have a chance to set up a Swords Dance. It probably doesn't need its own set, although I wouldn't mind if it did, but it should at least be the first thing mentioned in Optional Changes.
Let's get this thing through QC wooooooooo
QC Approved 1/3
Choice Band needs to be mentioned somewhere, since it's really good for softening up checks and counters, especially considering Doryuuzu doesn't always have a chance to set up a Swords Dance. It probably doesn't need its own set, although I wouldn't mind if it did, but it should at least be the first thing mentioned in Optional Changes.
Let's get this thing through QC wooooooooo
QC Approved 1/3
I have a counter to consider:
Porygon2 @ Evo Stone
Trace
Bold
252 HP 252 Def 4 Sp. Def
Recover
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Water/Hidden Power Fire
This guy switches into Doryuuzu and recieves only 115 max damage from Doryuuzu. With Hidden Power Water, he returns a minimum damage of 150 (or a 3HKO of Doryuuzu at full health). Additionally, he traces Sandstorm, double his speed for future sweeping. He carries a recovery move to out last Doryuuzu with minimum damage taken (as Doryuuzu can only 4HKO him). Porygon2 also has the distinct advantage of providing gel support for the team in other ways (if a team is not carrying Doryuuzu) by:
1: Switching into Heatran and tracing Flash Fire before the Fire Blast
2: Tracing Cholophyll/Swift Swim Sweepers and then returning KOs similar to Doryuuzu via Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Fire
3: Being a general defensive tank with his 429 Defense and 374 HP
4: Self sufficient with Recover to provide sustainability
Porygon2 should be played more with how much Doryuuzu/weather teams are used. He will break you.
Porygon2 @ Evo Stone
Trace
Bold
252 HP 252 Def 4 Sp. Def
Recover
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Water/Hidden Power Fire
This guy switches into Doryuuzu and recieves only 115 max damage from Doryuuzu. With Hidden Power Water, he returns a minimum damage of 150 (or a 3HKO of Doryuuzu at full health). Additionally, he traces Sandstorm, double his speed for future sweeping. He carries a recovery move to out last Doryuuzu with minimum damage taken (as Doryuuzu can only 4HKO him). Porygon2 also has the distinct advantage of providing gel support for the team in other ways (if a team is not carrying Doryuuzu) by:
1: Switching into Heatran and tracing Flash Fire before the Fire Blast
2: Tracing Cholophyll/Swift Swim Sweepers and then returning KOs similar to Doryuuzu via Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Fire
3: Being a general defensive tank with his 429 Defense and 374 HP
4: Self sufficient with Recover to provide sustainability
Porygon2 should be played more with how much Doryuuzu/weather teams are used. He will break you.
Yeah! I agree with your remark about Balloon, and I thought I'd already made that change but apparently not. I also agree that CB could use a set, I was just being a lazyass. I wrote up a skeleton for it. Other than that, I've updated the OP to conform with your suggestions, all of which I agree with.Iconic said:
