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Excadrill
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Sarcasm is a lost art in the internet. But I apologize, since most of your posts are high-tier.
Let me put it like this: Your oponent last pokemon is doryuzu, your last pokemon is duryuzu, so what you prefer 50% or 0%?. This also can work if you dont have a safe switch in.
Ironically, i wasnt being sarcastic...
Don't lie. If you really think my posts are that good, you gotta be smokin'
Also, last reply before i get pwned by some admin or mod.
Let's say that way: If you have a good counter/check on your team (like Skarmory or Hippowdon for example) you can take the risk and use Adamant to get more power.
If not, go with Jolly to ensure at least a tie with opposing Doryuuzu.
In my opinion, it's a case of team needs. I just "got it wrong" on my first post.
you have to put yourself in that situation first, so get rid of it first!
Bold 252/252 Suicune takes 59.7~70.5% from a +2 Adamant Earthquake. Jolly instead of Adamant makes the EQ deal ~5% less.
With those EVs, the same Suicune doesn't OHKO back with Surf against a 0/0 Dory, and most Dory's I've seen invest in some HP.
However, a 48/252 Bold Suicune takes 68.3~80.7% from a +2 Adamant Earthquake. Factor in Sandstorm and Stealth Rocks, and Suicune will always survive with just a tiny sliver of health left.
The same Suicune with 204 SpA EVs will deal 91.4~108.0% back to a 0/0 Dory with Surf (Almost always an OHKO with SR up). A lot of Dorys will invest in some HP, though, which sucks. A random Specs, LO, Expert Belt, Splash Plate, or whatever will make it an OHKO, but somehow I doubt that's really going to happen.
EDIT: Wait, Suicune has Hydro Pump >.> With Hydro Pump, the second Suicune deals 98.1~116.0% to a 252/0 Dory.
With those EVs, the same Suicune doesn't OHKO back with Surf against a 0/0 Dory, and most Dory's I've seen invest in some HP.
However, a 48/252 Bold Suicune takes 68.3~80.7% from a +2 Adamant Earthquake. Factor in Sandstorm and Stealth Rocks, and Suicune will always survive with just a tiny sliver of health left.
The same Suicune with 204 SpA EVs will deal 91.4~108.0% back to a 0/0 Dory with Surf (Almost always an OHKO with SR up). A lot of Dorys will invest in some HP, though, which sucks. A random Specs, LO, Expert Belt, Splash Plate, or whatever will make it an OHKO, but somehow I doubt that's really going to happen.
EDIT: Wait, Suicune has Hydro Pump >.> With Hydro Pump, the second Suicune deals 98.1~116.0% to a 252/0 Dory.
I'm sorry but what the fuck
Scarf Kurimugan is a solid check, if it can get in it'll outspeed and destroy Jolly Dory with EQ, as well as other things:
Mold Breaker Pinsir, Ononokusu, and Basurau are actually the best Dory checks imo.
Pinsir has a decent base Def and can switch into a resisted EQ and OHKO with it's own Scarfed EQ/
Jolly Onono outspeeds Dory, and owns 76/90 Defenses.
Jolly Basurao threatens OHKO with a number of moves if it can get in.
Kurimugan@ Choice Scarf
Mold Breaker
*Weather Vengeance*
Naive or Jolly / 252 Attack / 212 Speed / 44 Sp. Attack or Defense
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower / Fire Fang
- Dragon Tail / Level Ground
Stats (approx):
295 HP
339 Attack
216 / 227 Defense
167 / 141 Sp. Attack
197 / 216 Sp. Defense
304 Speed (scarfed, 203 otherwise)
This set looks weird and gimmicky because it is. Completely overspecialized, but it should never fail at it's role: Stopping any weather-speed based sweep.
With a Scarf and Mold Breaker, it'll never lose to Doryuuzu, Omastar, Kabutops, Venusaur, or Exeggutor (or the slowest variations of Garchomp, as well as any unscarfed Nite).
Jumpluff and Erufuun still gets the jump with their natural speed, though neither are sweepers. Only Hahakurimo, Leafeon, and Mebukijika should outrun this set in the sun, but all can be outrun at max speed EVs (and can't hurt this poke anyway).
In the rain, there's Luvdisc, Poliwhirl, and Floatzel that are faster than this poke but max speed beats Whirl and Luvdisc/Floatzel can't threaten Kuri.
There is nothing faster in the sand.
Dragon Claw is STAB that predicts a flying-type non-skarm switchin, and Outrage is another option to allow for full power hits, but Earthquake is this set's main attack in practice, nailing Doryuuzu for a OHKO and Levitators like Flygon and that eel thing.
Flamethrower uses the sun to combat most Chlorophyllers, and Fire Fang does much the same on the physical side. The fire move can also be used to play mind games with Dory itself, and hurts Skarm and Nattorei's coverage.
Dragon Tail phazes this thing's checks out so that you can rack up extra passive damage, and also helps to break setups, while Level Ground slows checks down instead (for whatever reason you'd need to).
Mold Breaker
*Weather Vengeance*
Naive or Jolly / 252 Attack / 212 Speed / 44 Sp. Attack or Defense
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower / Fire Fang
- Dragon Tail / Level Ground
Stats (approx):
295 HP
339 Attack
216 / 227 Defense
167 / 141 Sp. Attack
197 / 216 Sp. Defense
304 Speed (scarfed, 203 otherwise)
This set looks weird and gimmicky because it is. Completely overspecialized, but it should never fail at it's role: Stopping any weather-speed based sweep.
With a Scarf and Mold Breaker, it'll never lose to Doryuuzu, Omastar, Kabutops, Venusaur, or Exeggutor (or the slowest variations of Garchomp, as well as any unscarfed Nite).
Jumpluff and Erufuun still gets the jump with their natural speed, though neither are sweepers. Only Hahakurimo, Leafeon, and Mebukijika should outrun this set in the sun, but all can be outrun at max speed EVs (and can't hurt this poke anyway).
In the rain, there's Luvdisc, Poliwhirl, and Floatzel that are faster than this poke but max speed beats Whirl and Luvdisc/Floatzel can't threaten Kuri.
There is nothing faster in the sand.
Dragon Claw is STAB that predicts a flying-type non-skarm switchin, and Outrage is another option to allow for full power hits, but Earthquake is this set's main attack in practice, nailing Doryuuzu for a OHKO and Levitators like Flygon and that eel thing.
Flamethrower uses the sun to combat most Chlorophyllers, and Fire Fang does much the same on the physical side. The fire move can also be used to play mind games with Dory itself, and hurts Skarm and Nattorei's coverage.
Dragon Tail phazes this thing's checks out so that you can rack up extra passive damage, and also helps to break setups, while Level Ground slows checks down instead (for whatever reason you'd need to).
Mold Breaker Pinsir, Ononokusu, and Basurau are actually the best Dory checks imo.
Pinsir has a decent base Def and can switch into a resisted EQ and OHKO with it's own Scarfed EQ/
Jolly Onono outspeeds Dory, and owns 76/90 Defenses.
Jolly Basurao threatens OHKO with a number of moves if it can get in.
Yeah, you're on the ball. Mold Breaker sucks, it should cancel all abilities dangit.
What if you lose you your counter/ check?. Maybe is me but when i make a team i try to cover every variable possible, because not everything will go as you planed always, to have more chances of winning, but hey maybe is just me
Yeah, actually, your 'checks' to Sand Throw Dory will have a rough time if your opponent expects it and plays head games by using Sand Strength instead. Now your bulky check's getting smashed by an even more powerful +2 EQ and you can't outspeed Dory with most sufficiently bulky checks.
You shouldn't be sacrificing that 10% extra attack JUST to avoid a Dory vs Dory, Last vs Last situation. If that's happening enough where Jolly would actually benefit you...You need to rethink your battle plan.
You mean a metagame where everyone realizes that Dory's so awesome and Sand's so common that NOT having a Dory, even on non-sand teams, is insane?
You want Dory's most solid counter? Here's a hint: HP 75, Attack 100, Defense 110.
Sandslash. With Sand Throw and Scarf, it'll waltz right in on anything Sand Throw OR Sand Power Dory's got and KO it. It probably doesn't need a scarf, I'll bet Sandy can survive a +2 Sand Power EQ and still OHKO back.
Like i said, you're taking the risk.
If Doryuuzu really threatens your team, you can run Jolly. Or you can run another check that has good synergy with the other one (don't ask me what checks are those:justin:).
It REALLY depends of your team needs.
Dory without +2 isn't nearly as threatening as a Dory with +2.
Agreed. Dory without +2 can be easily countered. The only reason to scarf would be Sand Strength. So now you're slower than Sand Throw Dory and locked into one move just so you can hit harder than a non-set up ST Dory.
Actually, a Dory user who likes to play mind games would probably make that set work. Switch in Hippowdon? Get smashed by Adamant Sand Power EQ. Nattorei? Adamant SP EQ. Most other things? Adamant SP EQ or RS.
I updated my previous post with a solid counter.
The problem with Sandslash is that it can't deal with a Balloonuuzu, which is a very common set. Plus, it has to be specifically designed for the purpose of dealing with Doryuuzu. I would prefer the Suicune set that I posted earlier (well, not a set; more like a spread) for use as a counter, which can switch in on the set-up and easily threaten it with a guaranteed OHKO on anything but the bulkiest of Dorys (252/0).
Not to mention there aren't many things that will want to come into a STAB Hydro Pump.
Not to mention there aren't many things that will want to come into a STAB Hydro Pump.
I've Found Bulky Gyara works very well with Dory. Combined, they not only resist each other's weaknesses, but synergise on other levels. Dory can Rapid Spin for Gyara, Gyara can Intimidate something so Dory can set up if its got SD. Gyara can taunt anything from setting up and Dory can take Status aimed at Gyara except Burns and Sleep. They also share a few counters, such as Rotom-W, Bulky Grassers and Bulky Waters, so after Gyara's sweep gets stopped, Dory can Clean up or Vice Versa. Toss in something like Nattorei to give you entry hazards and you're looking at a pretty mean core.
Mixed Ground Genie (randorosu) is a pretty cool partner for Dory as well. Double STAB Earth Power (take your pick with Encourage or Sand Power), 2HKOs pretty much anything that doesn't resist it at worse. Stone Edge gives you QuakeEdge Coverage, Grass Knot can take down Bulky Waters fairly well. Then, you can use U-Turn to dent Grassers on the switch and get in a counter, or just Explode and sweep.
I also think Bulky Gyara can handle a +1 Rock Slide and OHKO with Waterfall.
Mixed Ground Genie (randorosu) is a pretty cool partner for Dory as well. Double STAB Earth Power (take your pick with Encourage or Sand Power), 2HKOs pretty much anything that doesn't resist it at worse. Stone Edge gives you QuakeEdge Coverage, Grass Knot can take down Bulky Waters fairly well. Then, you can use U-Turn to dent Grassers on the switch and get in a counter, or just Explode and sweep.
I also think Bulky Gyara can handle a +1 Rock Slide and OHKO with Waterfall.