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Excadrill

Raverist said:
Azumarill with Aqua Jet is a danger to this mole. All Doryuuzu I've faced online have been OHKOed by CBAzu's AJ, considering Huge Power, and with some relative bulk the rabbit can take neutral moves from it. After a Swords Dance, however, he's OHKOed by Earthquake which puts a damper on him.

I'd go as far to say that Azumarill is one of the best checks to Dory around.
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honestly there are so many other pokemon that check doryuuzu just as well, if not better, than azumarill, that it isn't really an exceptional check imo. technician breloom with mach punch shits on doryuuzu all day, and basically anything with priority will be a huge problem for the mole. i've been hearing a lot of players complaining about how "broken" and "hard to beat" doryuuzu (specifically swords dance doryuuzu) is, but in actuality all you have to do is pack a super effective priority user like breloom or a physically bulky mon like hippowdon. hell, you really only have to change the weather to completely neuter doryuuzu. while he is really fun to use and no doubt powerful, he certainly isn't unbeatable. he does usually take out at least one pokemon a match, however, but his frailness means he isn't tough to revenge kill.
 
@Snorlaxe he isnt that frail 110 base hp is great and makes him pretty bulky it took 69% from suicunes SE Stab Boiling Water.

But i agree with you he is dangerous if used right but certainly not unstopable imo he is the best late game cleaner/sweeper right now if you can provide that sand is going on (wich isnt that hard given that both hippo and TTar are pretty bulky).
 
Most "super bulky pokemon" are shaky counters at best - if Hippowdon/Nattorei have taken any prior damage, they're going to die to +2 Earthquake. Mach Punch/Aqua Jet are really the only ways to deal with Doryuuzu; since it can't be outsped by anything (lol Scarf Deo-E), I don't think a comparison to pre-Platinum Garchomp is entirely out of line. The number of things that can reliably beat this (not counter, but stand a chance of killing it at all) after a Swords Dance is probably smaller than the number of things that could do the same to Chomp.
 
Until you factor in the fact we have balloon this gen. Heatran, lucario, metagross, and tyranitar, among others, all take out dory if they run a balloon and would want to run a balloon. of course, this means not allowing them to get hit before hand and hiding isn't as important with your team being shown...
 
Doryuuzu is great or at least you can't deny it isn't good. I played lots of matches with Doryuuzu and it was rarely disappointing me. In sand, (next to) nothing outspeeds it, 135 base attack, STAB on EQ, reasonable 110/60/65 defenses and immunity against TW and Toxic makes it one of the best sweepers you can dream of.

Doryuuzu @ Balloon
Ability: Sand Throw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Nature: Jolly
- SD
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor

Hands down, Balloon is the best item on Doryuzuu. Dory resists most attacks that are usually paired with EQ, it can get a free switch in, Spikes immunity, not revenged by other Doryuuzu who win the speed tie and the not existing yet ScarfDitto. These advantages overshadow the fact that Dory loses his Balloon when hit by an attack.

Max speed is important for forcing the speed tie against other Doryuuzu. It's fundamental, because you can't rely to have Balloon always on Doryuuzu. Also, Doryuuzu is always useful. Early and mid game it is one of the best revenge killers and lures in bulky waters and end game it cleans the opponent's team.

Spikes are essential, especially when you use Balloon over LifeOrb, as +2EQ won't OHKO all bulky waters / grounds. So, Nattorei is a great team mate, although they share the same Fire / Fighting weakness. Early and mid game Doryuzuu acts as a revenge killer and it will lure bulky waters and bulky grounds. Yeah, free switch and Spikes for Nattorei. Doryuuzu can revenge kill the Pokémon that can set up on Nattorei, making Nattorei viable for offensive teams. Nattorei also can deal perfectly with RD teams. So, this duo is viable despite the not so good type synergy.

There are just some few counters to Doyuuzu. Don't expect to outspeed it in sand, so Scarfers are not able to deal with Dory. So, you can only rely on changing the weather or priority, which Dory really hates. MachPunch Breloom is the best switch into Dory, as it resists Dory's usual attacks and Technician MachPunch is strong (yes, I know that Technician Breloom doesn't exist yet, but it's great). Mach Punch Ropushin, Aqua Jet Azumarill and Vacuum Wave Lucario can also revenge kill Dory easily. Balloon users that can easily take Dory's other attacks can also deal with Dory.

So, ScarfShandera with ShadowTag (blah, know it doesn't exist yet) can also switch into fighting priority and get rid of them easily. Shandera lures in Pursuit Ttar for free turn for Dory and bulky waters for Nattorei. It's really cool for getting rid of Pokémon that can prohibit a Dory sweep.

I see little talk about it, but Doryuuzu is now one of the best, when even not the best Spinner in the game. It's the fastest one and there are few ghosts that enjoy switching into strong EQ.

Just my two cents. A great Pokémon. No doubt.
 
I use Doryuzzu on Pokemon Online. He is simply an offensive masterpiece.

However, to expand on what was already stated, Doryuzzu in general doesn't take priority moves.

In fact, I consider his major threat to be mach punch Rupooshin. Considering it has among the lowest defenses of all steel types, it's almost guaranteed to get at least a 2hitKO from an aqua jet or mach punch. In general, if you plan on using it as your main sweeper, you need to remove its counters. Defensive Rankarusu or a bulky ghost makes a good check for the Mach Punch fighters.

As for it's hold item, give it a balloon. Aside from priority attacks, one of it's major threats is its own kind. With balloon, and faith that your opponent is unprepared, you should be able to get in a free EQ and not be affected from other ground-users (if you didn't know, Balloon gives you immunity to ground type moves)

This is the set I use:

Substitute Swords Dance:
EVs: 252 atk / 252 spe / 4 def
Item: Balloon
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sand Throw
Moveset:
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-X-scissor
 
Syberia said:
Most "super bulky pokemon" are shaky counters at best - if Hippowdon/Nattorei have taken any prior damage, they're going to die to +2 Earthquake. Mach Punch/Aqua Jet are really the only ways to deal with Doryuuzu; since it can't be outsped by anything (lol Scarf Deo-E), I don't think a comparison to pre-Platinum Garchomp is entirely out of line. The number of things that can reliably beat this (not counter, but stand a chance of killing it at all) after a Swords Dance is probably smaller than the number of things that could do the same to Chomp.
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Hippowdon is not a shaky counter at all. It's actually one of the best Dory counters available, since it actually does have reliable recovery and can keep itself at 80%+ for the majority of the match very easily. I've never even heard of Nattorei being a counter.

Gliscor is a very good Dory counter too, with the only concern being that EQ might not KO if it's at full health (85.3% - 101.4%). If you're at maxed defense, it might not matter at all that it survives, since the best it can do is Rock Slide or Return, which would bring Dory down too in a worst case scenario.

A more balance-friendly check is Brozong, who ruins any set not running X-Scissor, and can still get a good, strong hit in before it goes down if it does. Then you have Landolos, who doesn't care about him being at +2 and KOs easily with its overkill Sand Power EQ.

Another thing worth noting is that Salamence can come in on a predicted EQ and KO with Fire Blast. A -1 Rock Slide will not KO even after SR, but it's still a risky maneuver with the 30% flinch rate in effect (which I've been screwed by thrice iirc).

Dory won't always be at +2, since it often has to come in on the revenge to stop a threat on your team, or can't afford to predict on what's in front of it, and as long as you at least have a good check or two, you don't have to worry about him sweeping you.
 
I'm going to note that Doryuuzu is bulky enough to survive a max SpA Infernape Vacuum Wave, which is my team's revenge killing attack, in addition to easily outspeeding Scarfchomp.

Forcing me to run a stronger priority move than that only to revenge kill one Pokemon is a bit overcentralising in my opinion. (I do have a Breloom, but it's a SubPunch set. You know, the only good one it has.)
 
Choice Scarf Doryuuzu is one of the best checks for this pokemon. The only problem it has is if Doryuuzu is wearing a balloon.
 
Agent123, that is very reminiscent of Garchomp in Gen 4, isn't it? A Scarfed version of a fast, powerful sweeper is one of the few "counters" to its SD set.
 
SJCrew said:
Hippowdon is not a shaky counter at all. It's actually one of the best Dory counters available, since it actually does have reliable recovery and can keep itself at 80%+ for the majority of the match very easily. I've never even heard of Nattorei being a counter.

Gliscor is a very good Dory counter too, with the only concern being that EQ might not KO if it's at full health (85.3% - 101.4%). If you're at maxed defense, it might not matter at all that it survives, since the best it can do is Rock Slide or Return, which would bring Dory down too in a worst case scenario.

A more balance-friendly check is Brozong, who ruins any set not running X-Scissor, and can still get a good, strong hit in before it goes down if it does. Then you have Landolos, who doesn't care about him being at +2 and KOs easily with its overkill Sand Power EQ.

Another thing worth noting is that Salamence can come in on a predicted EQ and KO with Fire Blast. A -1 Rock Slide will not KO even after SR, but it's still a risky maneuver with the 30% flinch rate in effect (which I've been screwed by thrice iirc).

Dory won't always be at +2, since it often has to come in on the revenge to stop a threat on your team, or can't afford to predict on what's in front of it, and as long as you at least have a good check or two, you don't have to worry about him sweeping you.
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You musn't have come against one with a balloon, huh. You are basically forced to use Ice Fang (If you have it..) first with something like Hippowdon if you want to EQ it, if it has a balloon (atleast 50 percent of the time I see a baloon on Doryuuzu).
 
I've seen two of them. Both times I could have afforded the loss, so I attacked him instead of switching, popping it right away. THEN I switched to my Dory check on the predicted EQ to finish them off.

It's a little unreliable, but Dory is such a huge threat that I can't afford to have it get to +2 for free. Plus, I've seen Focus Sash users as well, and when I don't have priority, they're a major problem for me. :/
 
Adamant natured Dory has 550 Speed in Sandstorm, 405 Attack, STAB Earthquake, and a bad ass shiny purple sprite? This Pokemon is nothing short of amazing.

The ability to boost and keep partners like Gyarados alive in one set seems great but Ive had troubles using Rapid Spin on the Sword Dance set. Its so damn hard to spin stuff away when you can just Earthquake everything into oblivion.
 
I like to use Azumarill for the simple fact that not many Dorys will expect or take measures to counter it. So far the defensive item of choice for Dory is chople berry or balloon, neither of which does anything to stop Azu's aqua jet. Because of the abundance of mach-punch users and the scarcity of aqua jet users, the chances of finding a mole with anything other than chople as a defense berry is low.

Not only that, but Azu doesn't have to worry about being shadow tagged by Shanderaa either, which is nice. It only has to watch out for Burunkuru or Gastrodon, both of whom it can switch out of.
 
How many people use Adamant and how many people use Jolly on Doryuuza?

I don't know what KOs you miss without Adamant, but I use it since my team has a good measure or two against opposing Doryuuza. Jolly, however, lets you guarantee at least a speed time against other Doryuuza, which I've noticed a few of my matches come down to, or would make the match much more easier for me (despite my measures).
 
When I was using my Sandstorm team, I used a Balloon on my Doryuuzu and it seemed like very few other people did. This allowed my Doryuuzu to always beat other Doryuuzu, barring a flinch from the opponent's Rock Slide. Even if they did run Balloon, I could use Fake Out with Kojondo to pop it and have Doryuuzu take it out.
 
Gyarados is a great partner for this guy.

Gyarados is weak to electric and rock, Doryuuzu is immune and 4x resists.

Doryuuzu is weak to water, fighting, fire and ground, Gyarados resists the first three and is immune to the last.

While Doryuuzu shouldn't generally be used for defensive synergy, both types that can severely injure Gyarados do little to no damage to him regardless of his defenses, and Gyara can be pretty bulky and doesn't mind taking only 2x resisted hits.

Gyarados also often runs a rock or ground type move for coverage, so although they get redundant attack typing this also means one can weaken or draw out the other's counters. They also both are most successful at sweeping when speed is high (a few DD's for Gyara and sandstorm for Doryuuzu), so one can often draw out speedy checks that might hinder the other's sweep.
 
yeah gyara seems to be a great partner as Bulky DD variants can set up on pokemon like gliscor/skarmory/Hippowdon and can easily switch in on machpunch users like ropushin and breloom thanks to resist + intimidate and threaten them with bounce (wich should be the coverage move to go when used with doryuzuu as it also hurts celebi and Doryuzu already provides Rock/Ground type attacks). Gyara can even take on enemys Dory and Dittos while Ditto cant do much against a Gyarados that runs Bounce (as long as you are not that foolish to get 6 DDs up ;) )
Dory can also Spin Stones away SR for Gyara if you would like to.

Sadly Bulky DD doesnt likes Sand Stom that much since it cancels his Leftovers, however he can abuse the rain of the opponents team for his own sweep and threatens Nintales even in Sun thanks to a SE Stab Waterfall hitting tales lower Defense.
 
Ran some calcs, Fire Blast from Max Sp Atack Balloon Heatran deals a nice minimum 104.7% to max hp/sp def Doryuuzu. If Dory doesn't invest in any bulk Fire Blast hits for a massive minimum of 169.5%. Also, +2 Rock Slide doesn't even 2HKO Heatran. At the very least Baloon Heatran could be a very reliable revenge killer, and could even switch into an Earthquake and force it out/KO it from there.
 
The problem with Dory most of Dory Checks is that they require to be alive until the end.

Most Dory users always leave Dory as the final pokemon, 99% of the time being the first time it is used in play.
 
Final Days said:
The problem with Dory most of Dory Checks is that they require to be alive until the end.

Most Dory users always leave Dory as the final pokemon, 99% of the time being the first time it is used in play.
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If your opponent is using Hippowdon/TTar, they are most likely using Dory too. Keeping a counter in reserve for a threatening Pokemon is pretty common practice.
 
Vakama3 said:
If your opponent is using Hippowdon/TTar, they are most likely using Dory too. Keeping a counter in reserve for a threatening Pokemon is pretty common practice.
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Thats common sense, but any good battler doesn't show Ttar/Hippowdon immediately most likely scouting for your counter.
 
Final Days said:
Thats common sense, but any good battler doesn't show Ttar/Hippowdon immediately most likely scouting for your counter.
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It would generally be wise to keep a counter hidden in the wings.

Besides, it when a Hippowdon is sent out late game, you can be pretty sure Doryuzuu is coming right behind it.
 
I gotta say, my favorite counter to this guy so far has to be Cloyster. An Impish Cloyster with 4 HP EVs, 252 Attack and 0 Defense will survive Dory's Rockslide (Adamant or Jolly) and OHKO with Shell Blade in return. This doesn't work out if they've gotten a SD off, but I haven't seen more than 2 Dory's pull off SDs in my experience. Most just attack off the bat
 
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