Ferroseed [QC 0/3]

[OVERVIEW]
  • Ferroseed establishes itself as a defensive presence in the PU metagame while providing utility with moves such as Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Leech Seed.
  • Its above average Defense and Special Defense along with Eviolite make up for its low natural bulk, which allows it to take numerous hits.
  • Ferroseed also has a great defensive typing, allowing it to resist Water-, Grass-, Electric-, and Fairy-moves from the likes of Carracosta, Victreebel, Alolan Raichu, and Silvally-Fairy, respectively.
  • In addition, Ferroseed can use these matchup opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, Spikes, or even get some of its HP back with Leech Seed.
  • Another perk for Ferroseed is its access to moves like Gyro Ball and Protect to deal major damage to fast foes or stall out the opponent.
  • While its defensive typing is nice, it does have its downside by being weak to Fighting-, and Fire-type moves from the likes of Gurdurr and Simisear.
  • Unfortunately for it, Ferroseed presents itself as setup bait for the setup sweepers of the meta like Oricorio-E and Dodrio, regardless of what move it uses.
[SET]
name: Defensive Hazard Setter
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Protect
move 4: Gyro Ball
item: Eviolite
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Spikes is a nice utility move that chips incoming grounded Pokemon and puts more pressure on them to use a damaging move since up to three layers can be put out at one time.
  • Stealth Rock is a great alternative move if Ferroseed has a teammate using Spikes as it wears down most incoming targets, especially Fire-, Flying-, and Ice-types like Simisear, Dodrio, and Articuno.
  • Leech Seed is a good way for Ferroseed to slowly recover any lost HP since it lacks any other form or reliable recovery.
  • Protect is a great utility move that has a double use in that it can be used once Leech Seed is up to get some extra HP back, and it can be used to scout choice users like Stoutland or Aurorus.
  • Gyro Ball is a nice STAB move that allows Ferroseed to heavily damage faster Pokemon like Froslass, Aurorus, or Lycanroc.
Set Details
========
  • Iron Barbs is Ferroseed's only ability but it is a nice one that punishes users of contact moves by chipping their HP away with each hit.
  • A line of 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD allows Ferroseed to avoid a 2HKO from Aurorus after Stealth Rock and hail damage.
  • A Relaxed nature with a 0 Speed IV ensures Ferroseed goes its slowest and hits its hardest with Gyro Ball.
Usage Tips
========
  • Ferroseed fits best on balance or stall teams needing entry hazard support with Stealth Rock or Spikes.
  • It should be kept as far away as possible from the likes of Fighting-, and Fire-types like Primeape, Gurdurr, and Simisear so that Ferroseed can reliably set up its hazards or Leech Seed.
  • Using Protect to scout for moves from choiced users like Stoutland, Aurorus, and Primeape is a nice way to gain the upper-hand in a battle and should be utilized as often as possible.
  • Assuming Ferroseed is on the better side of a scouting with Protect, it's best to get up Stealth Rock or layer of Spikes or even Leech Seed given that any Grass-types or Sap Sipper users are non-existent on the opposing team.
Team Options
========
  • Since Fighting-types are very common, having a teammate that can check them would definitely be a must. Examples include Dodrio, Oricorio-E, Silvally-Fairy, and Musharna.
  • Fire-types like Simisear and Combusken make easy work of Ferroseed, so bringing a teammate like Jellicent or Lanturn checks them and fight them back.
  • Opposing Grass-types that would prevent Leech Seed from working and thus wasting a turn for Ferroseed will be a pain. Having a partner like Simisear, Articuno, or Skuntank to check them allows for that recovery that Ferroseed will need.
  • While Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes are not really harming it, Spikes are and that's not good when it has no reliable recovery. So, some form of hazard control from a teammate like Skuntank or Hitmonchan which can Defog or Rapid Spin, respectively, help it out greatly.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Using Rocky Helmet over Eviolite may sound like a nice viable option due to the fact that it deals more chip damage along with Iron Barbs and further wear down the opponent. However, it loses out on the benefits of the extra bulk that Eviolite gives it which it needs to be efficient.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fire-types**: Pokemon like Simisear, Combusken, Turtonator, and Camerupt all rip through Ferroseed like tissue paper due to its 4x weakness to the type and send Ferroseed running for the hills every time.

**Fighting-types**: While not as intense as Fire-types, the Fighting-types of the meta like Gurdurr, Hitmonchan, Primeape, and Throh all give Ferroseed a hard time especially when the former and the latter can knock off its Eviolite and make it less bulkier.

**Taunt users**: Users of this move like Froslass, Oricorio-E, Oricorio-G, Jellicent, Qwilfish, Alolan Persian, and Sableye all force Ferroseed to attack with Gyro Ball and this is easily a momentum killer. The former does have to be aware of getting a heavy hit from said Gyro Ball, however.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oathkeepre, 83980]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 
Last edited:
friendly amcheck, implement only what you agree with

[OVERVIEW]
  • Ferroseed establishes itself as a defensive presence in the PU metagame while providing utility with moves such as Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Leech Seed. it's the other way around, you're using ferro mainly for its utility in spikes, its defenses are mostly a bonus
  • why should i consider using it over other spikers such as froslass, qwilfish?
  • Its above average Defense and Special Defense along with Eviolite make up for its low natural bulk, which allows it to take numerous hits. its defense and special defense are above average but its natural bulk is low? I don't get it. also, give examples of mons it can take numerous hits from
  • Ferroseed also has a great defensive typing, allowing it to resist Water-, Grass-, Electric-, and Fairy-moves from the likes of Carracosta, Victreebel, Alolan Raichu, and Silvally-Fairy, respectively. I don't agree with this point as not only you're not using it as a dedicated wall due to its lackluster recovery options, but the latter three actually threaten it with coverage
  • In addition, Ferroseed can use these matchup opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, Spikes, or even get some of its HP back with Leech Seed. filler
  • Another perk for Ferroseed is its access to moves like Gyro Ball and Protect to deal major damage to fast foes or stall out the opponent. every mon gets protect so I wouldn't pinpoint it out in that context
  • While its defensive typing is nice, it does have its downside by being weak to Fighting-, and Fire-type moves from the likes of Gurdurr and Simisear. I'd merge this bullet with the next one, and also mention knock off as a way to cripple it defensively
  • Unfortunately for it, Ferroseed presents itself as setup bait for the setup sweepers of the meta like Oricorio-E and Dodrio gurdurr and simisear are better fits here, as unlike dodrio their predominant sets are setup and they also take zilch from gyro ball, regardless of what move it uses.
  • slow and shut down by taunt, which is a big disadvantage for a spikes setter
  • in what situations should i consider froslass/qwilfish/other hazard setters instead?
overall this overview is quite lackluster since it only presents ferroseed in isolation while also focusing more on its defensive capabilities as opposed to its utility in spikes. when reading this I keep asking myself why I should consider ferroseed over other spikes/rocks setters like froslass, qwilfish, regirock, and mudsdale, as well as when I should prefer using its competitors, but this is never adressed.

[SET]
name: Defensive Hazard Setter
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Protect
move 4: Gyro Ball
item: Eviolite
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Spikes is a nice utility move that chips incoming grounded Pokemon and puts more pressure on them to use a damaging move since up to three layers can be put out at one time. filler, moves like spikes don't need explaining
  • Stealth Rock is a great alternative move if Ferroseed has a teammate using Spikes as it wears down most incoming targets, especially Fire-, Flying-, and Ice-types like Simisear, Dodrio, and Articuno. same
  • Leech Seed is a good way for Ferroseed to slowly recover any lost HP since it lacks any other form or reliable recovery.
  • Protect is a great utility move that has a double use in that it can be used once Leech Seed is up to get some extra HP back, and it can be used to scout choice users like Stoutland or Aurorus as you address later on, aurorus is a non-issue for ferroseed, so instead i'd mention drampa which is a serious threat and primeape which often tries to gain momentum by u-turn
  • Gyro Ball is a nice STAB move that benefits from Ferroseed's low speed and allows Ferroseed to heavily damage faster Pokemon like Froslass, Aurorus, or Lycanroc cryogonal is more relevant since it tries to remove your hazards.
Set Details
========
  • Iron Barbs is Ferroseed's only ability but it is a nice one that punishes users of contact moves by chipping their HP away with each hit. again filler, when you have only one ability it's not worth explaining unless it monumentally contributes to the mon's ability to function.
  • A line of 252 HP / 216 Def there's no point in mentioning defense when you're referring to its ability to take hits from aurorus, which only uses special moves / 40 SpD allows Ferroseed to avoid a 2HKO from Aurorus what set? rock setter? scarf? specs? which move? after Stealth Rock and hail damage.
  • mention the dump of remainder of evs in defense
  • A Relaxed nature with a 0 Speed IV ensures Ferroseed goes its slowest and hits its hardest with Gyro Ball.
Usage Tips
========
  • Ferroseed fits best on balance or stall teams needing entry hazard support with Stealth Rock or Spikes. move this bullet to team options and make it the first one. also it's really not a good choice for stall due to the lack of immediate recovery, while these kind of teams also don't really utilize hazard stack
  • It should be kept as far away as possible from the likes of Fighting-, and Fire-types like Primeape, Gurdurr, and Simisear so that Ferroseed can reliably set up its hazards or Leech Seed.
  • Using Protect to scout for moves from choiced users like Stoutland, Aurorus, and Primeape is a nice way to gain the upper-hand in a battle and should be utilized as often as possible.
  • Assuming Ferroseed is on the better side of a scouting with Protect, it's best to get up Stealth Rock or layer of Spikes or even Leech Seed given that any Grass-types or Sap Sipper users are non-existent on the opposing team.
Team Options
========
  • first bullet from usage tips goes here
  • Since Fighting-types are very common, having a teammate that can check them would definitely be a must. Examples include Dodrio, Oricorio-E, Silvally-Fairy, and Musharna.
  • Fire-types like Simisear and Combusken make easy work of Ferroseed, so bringing a teammate like Jellicent or Lanturn checks them and fight them back.
  • Opposing Grass-types that would prevent Leech Seed from working and thus wasting a turn for Ferroseed will be a pain. Having a partner like Simisear, Articuno, or Skuntank to check them allows for that recovery that Ferroseed will need.
  • While Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes are not really harming it, Spikes are and that's not good when it has no reliable recovery. So, some form of hazard control from a teammate like Skuntank or Hitmonchan which can Defog or Rapid Spin, respectively, help it out greatly. this is extremely obvious and doesn't warrant a dedicated bullet
I'll adress all of the first three points here. while they're not wrong per se, this section rn focuses way too much on the defensive support ferroseed needs and not at all about the actual kind of teams ferroseed fits well on, which are entry hazard stacking teams. mention rapid spinners, spinblockers, and hazard stack abusers like kangaskhan as natural partners. I'd also give dedicated bullets to mons that work particularly well with ferroseed such as jellicent which support each other very well defensively while also being very efficient as a spikestack core, since jellicent handles the majority of rapid spinners very well and spreads burns to threats like hitmonchan while ferroseed handles cryogonal, the only spinner which poses a danger to jellicent.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Using Rocky Helmet over Eviolite may sound like a nice viable option due to the fact that it deals more chip damage along with Iron Barbs and further wear down the opponent. However, it loses out on the benefits of the extra bulk that Eviolite gives it which it needs to be efficient. ferroseed should never be considered using without an eviolite. instead, mention additional utility moves such as twave, toxic, and knock off which can all assist it against various targets but make it give up on more important utility such as scouting and recovery
Checks and Counters
===================

**Fire-types**: Pokemon like Simisear, Combusken, Turtonator, and Camerupt all rip through Ferroseed like tissue paper due to its 4x weakness to the type and send Ferroseed running for the hills every time. rewrite this bullet, "tissue paper" and "running for the hills" are way too casual phrases to fit on an analysis. also mention that they all take very little damage from gyro ball.

**Fighting-types**: While not as intense as Fire-types, the Fighting-types of the meta like Gurdurr, Hitmonchan, Primeape, and Throh all give Ferroseed a hard time especially when the former and the latter can knock off its Eviolite and make it less bulkier. mention that all of them take nothing from gyro ball. consider giving knock off a dedicated bullet, as several other mons that are not fighting-types like eelektross also carry knock off regularly

**Taunt users**: Users of this move like Froslass, Oricorio-E, Oricorio-G, Jellicent, Qwilfish, Alolan Persian, and Sableye all force Ferroseed to attack with Gyro Ball switch out and this is easily a momentum killer. The former Froslass does have to be aware of getting a heavy hit from said Gyro Ball, however.

**Setup Sweepers**: as you previously said, many of them just use ferroseed as setup fodder

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oathkeepre, 83980]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 

gum

well
is a Contributor to Smogon
im gonna go over royesk's check, as it covers a lot of the things i had to say. if i dont say anything that means it's good to implement. i'll add some stuff in blue

[OVERVIEW]
  • Ferroseed establishes itself as a defensive presence in the PU metagame while providing utility with moves such as Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Leech Seed. it's the other way around, you're using ferro mainly for its utility in spikes, its defenses are mostly a bonus - i disagree, you're using it for both really.
  • why should i consider using it over other spikers such as froslass, qwilfish?
  • Its above average Defense and Special Defense along with Eviolite make up for its low natural bulk, which allows it to take numerous hits. its defense and special defense are above average but its natural bulk is low? I don't get it. also, give examples of mons it can take numerous hits from
  • Ferroseed also has a great defensive typing, allowing it to resist Water-, Grass-, Electric-, and Fairy-moves from the likes of Carracosta, Victreebel, Alolan Raichu, and Silvally-Fairy, respectively. I don't agree with this point as not only you're not using it as a dedicated wall due to its lackluster recovery options, but the latter three actually threaten it with coverage even z-superpower costa is a thing, change the examples here
  • In addition, Ferroseed can use these matchup opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, Spikes, or even get some of its HP back with Leech Seed. filler this would be fine if you merged it with another point
  • Another perk for Ferroseed is its access to moves like Gyro Ball and Protect to deal major damage to fast foes or stall out the opponent. every mon gets protect so I wouldn't pinpoint it out in that context
  • While its defensive typing is nice, it does have its downside by being weak to Fighting-, and Fire-type moves from the likes of Gurdurr and Simisear. I'd merge this bullet with the next one, and also mention knock off as a way to cripple it defensively
  • Unfortunately for it, Ferroseed presents itself as setup bait for the setup sweepers of the meta like Oricorio-E and Dodrio gurdurr and simisear are better fits here, as unlike dodrio their predominant sets are setup and they also take zilch from gyro ball, regardless of what move it uses.
  • slow and shut down by taunt, which is a big disadvantage for a spikes setter
  • in what situations should i consider froslass/qwilfish/other hazard setters instead? you already made this point earlier though
overall this overview is quite lackluster since it only presents ferroseed in isolation while also focusing more on its defensive capabilities as opposed to its utility in spikes. when reading this I keep asking myself why I should consider ferroseed over other spikes/rocks setters like froslass, qwilfish, regirock, and mudsdale, as well as when I should prefer using its competitors, but this is never adressed.

[SET]
name: Defensive Hazard Setter
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Protect
move 4: Gyro Ball
item: Eviolite
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Spikes is a nice utility move that chips incoming grounded Pokemon and puts more pressure on them to use a damaging move since up to three layers can be put out at one time. filler, moves like spikes don't need explaining
  • Stealth Rock is a great alternative move if Ferroseed has a teammate using Spikes as it wears down most incoming targets, especially Fire-, Flying-, and Ice-types like Simisear, Dodrio, and Articuno. same
  • Leech Seed is a good way for Ferroseed to slowly recover any lost HP since it lacks any other form or reliable recovery.
  • Protect is a great utility move that has a double use in that it can be used once Leech Seed is up to get some extra HP back, and it can be used to scout choice users like Stoutland or Aurorus as you address later on, aurorus is a non-issue for ferroseed, so instead i'd mention drampa which is a serious threat and primeape which often tries to gain momentum by u-turn
  • Gyro Ball is a nice STAB move that benefits from Ferroseed's low speed and allows Ferroseed to heavily damage faster Pokemon like Froslass, Aurorus, or Lycanroc cryogonal is more relevant since it tries to remove your hazards.
Set Details
========
  • Iron Barbs is Ferroseed's only ability but it is a nice one that punishes users of contact moves by chipping their HP away with each hit. again filler, when you have only one ability it's not worth explaining unless it monumentally contributes to the mon's ability to function.
  • A line of 252 HP / 216 Def there's no point in mentioning defense when you're referring to its ability to take hits from aurorus, which only uses special moves / 40 SpD allows Ferroseed to avoid a 2HKO from Aurorus what set? rock setter? scarf? specs? which move? after Stealth Rock and hail damage. just say "the spdef investment allows ferro to take two blizzard from choice scarf aurorus"
  • mention the dump of remainder of evs in defense no, don't, unless the added def does something notable
  • A Relaxed nature with a 0 Speed IV ensures Ferroseed goes its slowest and hits its hardest with Gyro Ball. no need for this
Usage Tips
========
  • Ferroseed fits best on balance or stall teams needing entry hazard support with Stealth Rock or Spikes. move this bullet to team options and make it the first one. also it's really not a good choice for stall due to the lack of immediate recovery, while these kind of teams also don't really utilize hazard stack
  • It should be kept as far away as possible from the likes of Fighting-, and Fire-types like Primeape, Gurdurr, and Simisear so that Ferroseed can reliably set up its hazards or Leech Seed. i mean, that's extremely obvious info
  • Using Protect to scout for moves from choiced users like Stoutland, Aurorus, and Primeape is a nice way to gain the upper-hand in a battle and should be utilized as often as possible. idt aurorus is a great / needed example here
  • Assuming Ferroseed is on the better side of a scouting with Protect, it's best to get up Stealth Rock or layer of Spikes or even Leech Seed given that any Grass-types or Sap Sipper users are non-existent on the opposing team.
this entire section is pretty short and doesn't really tell the user how to use it. like, what am i supposed to bring it in against?

Team Options
========
  • first bullet from usage tips goes here
  • Since Fighting-types are very common, having a teammate that can check them would definitely be a must. Examples include Dodrio, Oricorio-E, Silvally-Fairy, and Musharna. ik that u mean check but dod is still a shaky mention
  • Fire-types like Simisear and Combusken make easy work of Ferroseed, so bringing a teammate like Jellicent or Lanturn checks them and fight them back. jellicent can also spinblock. in return, ferro checks grass-types
  • Opposing Grass-types that would prevent Leech Seed from working and thus wasting a turn for Ferroseed will be a pain. Having a partner like Simisear, Articuno, or Skuntank to check them allows for that recovery that Ferroseed will need.
  • While Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes are not really harming it, Spikes are and that's not good when it has no reliable recovery. So, some form of hazard control from a teammate like Skuntank or Hitmonchan which can Defog or Rapid Spin, respectively, help it out greatly. this is extremely obvious and doesn't warrant a dedicated bullet
I'll adress all of the first three points here. while they're not wrong per se, this section rn focuses way too much on the defensive support ferroseed needs and not at all about the actual kind of teams ferroseed fits well on, which are entry hazard stacking teams. mention rapid spinners, spinblockers, and hazard stack abusers like kangaskhan as natural partners. I'd also give dedicated bullets to mons that work particularly well with ferroseed such as jellicent which support each other very well defensively while also being very efficient as a spikestack core, since jellicent handles the majority of rapid spinners very well and spreads burns to threats like hitmonchan while ferroseed handles cryogonal, the only spinner which poses a danger to jellicent.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Using Rocky Helmet over Eviolite may sound like a nice viable option due to the fact that it deals more chip damage along with Iron Barbs and further wear down the opponent. However, it loses out on the benefits of the extra bulk that Eviolite gives it which it needs to be efficient. ferroseed should never be considered using without an eviolite. instead, mention additional utility moves such as twave, toxic, and knock off which can all assist it against various targets but make it give up on more important utility such as scouting and recovery also bullet seed
Checks and Counters
===================

**Fire-types**: Pokemon like Simisear, Combusken, Turtonator, and Camerupt all rip through Ferroseed like tissue paper due to its 4x weakness to the type and send Ferroseed running for the hills every time. rewrite this bullet, "tissue paper" and "running for the hills" are way too casual phrases to fit on an analysis. also mention that they all take very little damage from gyro ball. they can also all use it as setup fodder, and change this point for fire-type coverage. like on paper u can check vic bc of ur typing but then it just hp fires u.

**Fighting-types**: While not as intense as Fire-types, the Fighting-types of the meta like Gurdurr, Hitmonchan, Primeape, and Throh all give Ferroseed a hard time especially when the former and the latter can knock off its Eviolite and make it less bulkier. mention that all of them take nothing from gyro ball. well, primeape and chan take a chunk consider giving knock off a dedicated bullet, as several other mons that are not fighting-types like eelektross also carry knock off regularly

**Taunt users**: Users of this move like Froslass, Oricorio-E, Oricorio-G, Jellicent, Qwilfish, Alolan Persian, and Sableye all force Ferroseed to attack with Gyro Ball switch out and this is easily a momentum killer. The former Froslass does have to be aware of getting a heavy hit from said Gyro Ball, however.

**Chip Damage**: ferro is a mon w/ no passive recovery or reliable recovery

**Setup Sweepers**: as you previously said, many of them just use ferroseed as setup fodder


[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Oathkeepre, 83980]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

do this and lmk once you're done. if you have any questions just hmu
 

tondas

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I'm stepping in and reassigning this. Looking at what the two people above me said + complaints of my own, nearly every bullet has me making considerable changes which essentially has me writing the analysis for you. A lot of your information is conceptualized and lets me know that you have very little if any experience with this Pokemon - yes you're right that it's a steel/grass type, that doesn't make it a good victreebel/alolachu/fairyvally check when they all run coverage, several key sections like the overview, usage tips, and team options are very lacking in solid information or are incredibly basic and unhelpful (TO is literally just "ferroseed is weak to x, use y to check x" and not the full extent of its defensive typing or utility) and overall I'd be more comfortable giving this to someone else. You know where to find me if you have any questions.
 
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