Metagame Fervent Impersonation

On the topic of Caly-S, I am totally in favor of banning it. Of the games I’ve played on ladder, you either bring your own Caly or an unaware mon, and hope what you brought works. With NP Gholdengo (hope I spelt it right lol I’m a low tier main), I just switch in on CM caly, click NP, claim the KO, and run free. Otherwise, I’m doing a lot to an unaware mon, and then my Espeed user can run free.

I don’t think I’ve seen a single dark type, but this might just be a symptom of the meta being new and me facing the same ladder opponents a lot.

Despite that, I don’t think sucker punch can do anything to keep Caly-S in check. With all the espeed users and the viability of Psychic Terrain, I don’t think sucker punch is worth running enough to count as a Caly answer.

Tera and As One make it able to bypass counters and snowball, which pushes it from very good breaker to a broken mon in my eyes.

For the other points mentioned by The Guy Who Has Many Alts, Gholdengo is still listed as an exception to having frail base mons and isn’t broken itself (probably), and it’s not hard to find another bulky mon who learns NP Sball Psyshock and Tera blast. Second, a weakness to Espeed post-Tera only matters if you already lost a mon because it clicked Tera.


I did also want to mention Extreme Speed. I don’t think it needs tiering action, but it is the most centralizing thing in the meta rn.

And finally, funny things on my team!

Tera bug lapras is actually able to take a couple of +2 fighting moves, maybe hit hydro pump, and transform into Iron bundle to revenge and clean. It’s a funny check to dragonite, blaziken, and body press kinda, but it still works lol. I went bug for the grass and fighting resists.

Steel Beam Lucario is probably more gimmicky than the Lapras. Ideally, you SD or break a sub with steel beam, turn into an Arceus, and then have a less bulky Ekiller. Steel beam hit literally once for me.

And the Qwil is just lead Froslass with intimidate. Destiny bond works very well against the people I faced on ladder. Taunt is funny too.
 
I'm here to report a bug, Zamazenta does not change to Zamazenta-Crowned (the nickname doesn't even register and it just says Zamazenta when sent to battle)
 
Here's a set I'm proud of.

Mewtwo (Moltres-Galar) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Berserk
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Hurricane
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt

Berserk does activate before you change form, meaning as soon as you hit half health, you get a +1 Mewtwo. If you've Nasty Plotted, then you have a +3 Mewtwo, and if you were hit by a super effective move, you have a +5 Mewtwo, which is frankly horrifying. All of these conditions are pretty easy to set up, so it's decently useful.

Heracross (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Rock Slide
- Facade
- Reversal

This definitely isn't the best, but what it is is fun. Weak Armor turns into Moxie, so you can get a speed boosted Heracross raising its attack. Spikes are there as something to do to make progress while you're Skarmory, which isn't the strongest offensive threat otherwise.
 
Lord Ecramox the Almighty said:
Here's a set I'm proud of.

Mewtwo (Moltres-Galar) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Berserk
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Hurricane
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt

Berserk does activate before you change form, meaning as soon as you hit half health, you get a +1 Mewtwo. If you've Nasty Plotted, then you have a +3 Mewtwo, and if you were hit by a super effective move, you have a +5 Mewtwo, which is frankly horrifying. All of these conditions are pretty easy to set up, so it's decently useful.

Heracross (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Rock Slide
- Facade
- Reversal

This definitely isn't the best, but what it is is fun. Weak Armor turns into Moxie, so you can get a speed boosted Heracross raising its attack. Spikes are there as something to do to make progress while you're Skarmory, which isn't the strongest offensive threat otherwise.
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Both of those sets suffer from a lack of reliable STAB (unless Mewtwo teras). Here are similar sets that might work better:

Mewtwo (Porygon-Z) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Download
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Recover
- Dark Pulse

Heracross (Ceruledge) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Facade
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
 
I have a question about this OM. What happens if the base pokemon has the berserk or anger shell ability? Does the ability activate before transformation or does it not work due to the transformation happening first?
 
XinosXinos said:
I have a question about this OM. What happens if the base pokemon has the berserk or anger shell ability? Does the ability activate before transformation or does it not work due to the transformation happening first?
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The forme change check occurs at the very end of the turn, so if you run Focus Sash Klawf for example and get knocked down to <50% hp, you'll trigger Anger Shell and then transform.

This isn't part of the reply but the Mimikyu, Eiscue and Cramorant bans are partially implemented. They are currently classified as Restricted Pokemon, Which are only accessible through nicknames. This is a temporary fix as Dhelmise finds a way to prevent Mimikyu and co's unintended unlimited transformation behaviour.
 
Light Clay should be banned. The only Defogger that can actually make use of the transformation rule is Decidueye -> Giratina, but Decidueye sucks. In addition, raw Giratina loses to both Alolan Ninetales and Grimmsnarl.

Screens spam with Light Clay allow much safer transformations into Ubers Pokemon, and the setup is practically impossible to stop.
 
InkyDarkBird said:
Light Clay should be banned. The only Defogger that can actually make use of the transformation rule is Decidueye -> Giratina, but Decidueye sucks. In addition, raw Giratina loses to both Alolan Ninetales and Grimmsnarl.

Screens spam with Light Clay allow much safer transformations into Ubers Pokemon, and the setup is practically impossible to stop.
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Personally I've been finding good use of brick break and psychic fangs! I ended up having to use them for movepool compatibility reasons but they've come in handy against screens
 
Quantum Tesseract said:
It's specifically Shaymin that can't turn into Shaymin-sky right now, just like Zamazenta can't turn into Zamazenta-C. If you use another pokemon it will transform just fine.
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This must be a new bug that was introduced within the past few days. Zamazenta transformed correctly on Tuesday:
chartung17 said:
You need to leave out the hyphen in the nickname.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ferventimpersonation-2137098356
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But it doesn't today:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ferventimpersonation-2139719228
 
chartung17 said:
This must be a new bug that was introduced within the past few days. Zamazenta transformed correctly on Tuesday:

But it doesn't today:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ferventimpersonation-2139719228
Click to expand...

Alright everyone: I have some bad news and some good news. The good news is that Mimikyu, Cramorant and Eiscue can no longer transform into alternate formes of itself and are unbanned. The bad news is that the change in code seems to also disable ALL Pokemon from transforming to alternate formes of itself, including mons like Shaymin and Zamazenta. However, Pokemon can still transform into alternate formes of other Pokemon. This is why as of right now, you can't transform your Deoxys-D into a Deoxys-A, your Zamazenta into Zamazenta-C and your Kyurem to Kyurem-B, but other Pokemon like Indeedee, Corviknight and Baxcalibur as an example can still transform into those Pokemon.

Also, you may have noticed this already but the abilities swapping bug is fixed, sort of. Your Pokemon will now correctly keep their abilities for the rest of the game (E.g Regenerator Ho-Oh and Multiscale Lugia) HOWEVER they will still briefly possess and activate their primary ability. Although this is not relevant for many abilities, there are some abilities such as Drought, Intimidate and Download which will trigger before being swapped out.

Here are the two bugs in a replay.
 
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I don't know if this is a bug or not; or if this is the right place to comment about it, but considering its a Fervent thing I thought I'd ask about it here; is there something weird with DBond in this meta that I'm not familiar with? Vespiquen should be able to learn Destiny Bond but it won't let me verify with it??
 
IMakeNoSense said:
View attachment 639988View attachment 639989

I don't know if this is a bug or not; or if this is the right place to comment about it, but considering its a Fervent thing I thought I'd ask about it here; is there something weird with DBond in this meta that I'm not familiar with? Vespiquen should be able to learn Destiny Bond but it won't let me verify with it??
Click to expand...

This is not a bug. Your pokemon and its nickname must share a legal moveset. In your case of Vespiquen and Whimsicott, your Vespiquen currently only shares one legal move: U-turn. Whimsicott is unable to learn Destiny Bond, Toxic and Spikes. The set below is an example of a valid set because both mons are able to learn all four moves used in the set. I hope that clears out your confusion but if you're still unsure, feel free to post your question here.

:vespiquen:
Whimsicott (Vespiquen) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Protect
- Substitute
- Tera Blast
 
The Guy Who Has Many Alts said:
This is not a bug. Your pokemon and its nickname must share a legal moveset. In your case of Vespiquen and Whimsicott, your Vespiquen currently only shares one legal move: U-turn. Whimsicott is unable to learn Destiny Bond, Toxic and Spikes. The set below is an example of a valid set because both mons are able to learn all four moves used in the set. I hope that clears out your confusion but if you're still unsure, feel free to post your question here.

:vespiquen:
Whimsicott (Vespiquen) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Protect
- Substitute
- Tera Blast
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Clears it up, but... a little upsetting it doesn't work the way I imagined. Thanks!

A suggestion while I'm here, however; is there any way the premise can be reworded?
Previously it said "learns their moveset" as if the previous Pokemon shares its current moveset, no matter what the move is, to the pokemon they're impersonating. That's why I thought Vespiquen could gift Whimsicott with DBond; after 50% it'd change into Whimsicott, gain Prankster by nature of a "different appearance" and now have priority Destiny Bond.

But I digress, all I ask is that the premise is a little more clear; could just me being stupid but I'm unsure if anyone else was misled by this.

Premise:
Pokemon can use their nickname to change into another Pokemon that has a moveset in common if they end the turn with 50% or less health. You can change form into almost any obtainable Pokemon, including alternate forms.
 
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yanmega.gif

Ursaluna (Yanmega) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute / Protect
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Crunch

Set up a sub and/or a SD, then transform into an Ursaluna with a few speed boosts and Guts active. Unfortunately there aren't many physical moves both Pokémon learn, but Facade and Crunch should still be good enough.
 
GeniusMike said:
Is it intentional that a Pokemon cannot change into another one of its own forms? First attempt with Deoxys defense into Deoxys attack annd the nickname didn't even take at all. So next game I changed the formatting so the name took but there was no transformation. Turn 2: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-2145743850-nhvdimr74muexwzew5ciihng1cnol03pw
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The Guy Who Has Many Alts said:
the change in code seems to also disable ALL Pokemon from transforming to alternate formes of itself, including mons like Shaymin and Zamazenta.
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If it ain't broke, why fix it? Walking Wake doesn't want to be an Uber, so we won't pressure it to be. To thank us, it outspeeds and takes out problematic mons like Zacian and Calyrex-Shadow and devastates teams with its specs boosted attacks to clear a path for Arceus to clean with Extreme Speed in the late game. Because of the propensity mons have to set up, either with stat boosting moves or Substitute, in an effort to be knocked out of their weaker forms before they have to start attacking, it seems like phasing moves and Unaware are super useful.

Also, sorry if this has already been reported, but Ogerpon is all kinds of broken. I'm not sure if you're even supposed to be allowed to become its Tera'd form (only Teal's name fits in the nickname limit) but if you do Embody Aspect procs twice, then Tera-ing it seems to nerf its stats for a turn before Embody Aspect procs twice again: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-2146495426-ghgtai912okyb9xjfd8oknvyn4t21tepw

(Edit: Looks like the stat nerf is because it's turning into the non-existent Pokemon Ogerpon Teal Tera Tera)
pondereplay.png
 
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What do you think about this set :
1719050906634.png

Ursaluna (Coalossal) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Steam Engine
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Facade
- Rock Slide
- Bulldoze/Curse

It may require terastallizing, but can be surprisingly powerful against sun based teams.
 
Sorry I haven't been active recently, I have less free time now than I used to in irl. I've been putting this off for a while since the council was busy with OMPL but we got 3 bans (myself, rightclicker and Quantum Tesseract) and 2 abstains (Clas and TTTech) for Calyrex-Shadow so the I am here to announce that Calyrex-S is now a banned pokemon. This means that its is not usable in your team AND as a nickname. This is the very first banned pokemon.

I think the mon just snowballs too easily and too fast. If the base mon sets up a Sub or NP and transforms, you can easily sweep the opposing team bar some specific mons which it can beat via tera. There are a ton of reasons why caly-s is good but I'll list some reasons here anyways for justification. Firstly, it's statline amazing. Solid bulk, insane spatk and speed. Typing makes it immune to espeed and neutral to most priority except for sucker punch. Combine with good bulk, it's hard to revenge kill. The ability is snowbally. If you let it get a kill, it gets a spatk boost so it can get even more kills. Tera is allowed which compounds the snowball because you can beat a supposed counter. A lot of mons have shadow ball and/or psychic so it's not hard to pick the other moves, especially with Sub, tera blast, draining kiss, nasty plot or a grass move. All things considered, think it deserves to go.

Tagging dhelmise to implement.

outside of caly-s, I think the next best mons are a lot worse but what comes to mind for me is bax-kyub and sd mon to korai (best one is blaziken). Tbh I think SD into korai/zacc or NP into mewtwo or deo-a are the next best thing rn. But bax is as good because it's just a good mon.

One final thing, it's almost the end of the month so this OM's ladder will end soon. I sincerely thank you everyone who have tried the OM and hope you enjoyed it. I know it's not perfect and there were a lot of bugs (there still are) but overall I personally had fun playing and discussing with everyone. I'll see you next time when hopefully mega come back and we can transform any mon into any mega. I think it would be nice to have more uber-level mons around.
 
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The Guy Who Has Many Alts said:
outside of caly-s, I think the next best mons are a lot worse but one which comes to mind for me is bax-kyub. The thing is its a lot slower and rocks weak before setup so it's a lot more manageable, so we won't ban it right now.
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Really? I feel Dragonite Arceus is more broken. Baxcalibur Kyurem-Black needs time to set up and cannot hit Steel at all without Terastalizing, while Dragonite Arceus needs no set up and can use Earthquake for coverage. In addition, Baxcalibur Kyurem-Black can lose to Dragonite Arceus itself without using Tera Ghost after getting defense dropped from Scale Shot.

Dragonite Arceus is also one of the few Pokemon that can counter Klawf Groudon.
 
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