Finally, an OU team that didn't suck! (ranked 23)

chenman333

It has been a few frustrating weeks for me in OU. After I got bored with my previously successful team at the end of January, I went back into Ubers and tried out nUU and spent most of my time there. When I got back to OU, there were some subtle changes that made my team much less effectively (mostly thanks to Metagross not being as good with everyone catching on). I was having a lot of trouble putting together a good team together, and was unable to get myself back into the leaderboard. Well today, I found my mojo (more specifically SubCM Jirachi) and got the team working again.

So without further adue, the team:
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I originally wanted to go for a balanced team, but it simply got more and more offensive. But its not overly offensive; more offensive balanced I guess. Never was a big fan of balanced teams in DP/P, but I really liked them back in ADV, so I tried to make one.

It took a lot of trial and error and experiments to get it to this stage (the most successful version so far). It originally started as "kill scizor, then sweep), and gradually evolved to this point (which is kinda weird, since there is almost nothing similar to them). At some point, I realized how well a Jirachi would fit in on my team, and since I needed something to "break" stall, I figured SubCM Jirachi would fit the bill.

Notes:
No Toxic spikes weakness. This is huge, because it means I can let Roserade set up all the TS it wants and just waste turns. Love it really. Also, only 1 SR weakness, and most of my pokemon can beat common phazers like Skarmory and Swampert.

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Metagross @ Occa Berry
Clear Body
252 HP/220 Atk/12 Def/24 Spd
Adamant
-Stealth Rock
-Meteor Mash
-Bullet Punch
-Explosion

Yep, the number one lead in the game. He was on my previous top 20 team, and he is still on this (relatively) solid team. Beats suicude leads and consistently gets rocks up. Really great lead. Only loses to Heatran leads (who are easy for my team anyway).

Pretty standard stuff here; set up the rocks, use MM+BP to kill Suicide leads and dish out some damage. I have changed Earthquake to Explosion because Gyarados leads are a serious pain right now; they just set up in my face and my team really sucks against a full health DD Gyarados.

I shifted the EVs around. 252 HP/12 Def means that Adamant CB Duggy never 1hkoes Metagross (I believe). Just a little insurance. Meanwhile, I have 24 EVs to absolutely make sure I will beat out most other Metagross leads and most CB Tar. The rest into attack obviously.

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Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Levitate
176 HP/120 SpA/212 Spd
Timid
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Will O Wisp
-Over Heat

My spin blocker/go to guy. Very reliable pokemon; his excellent resists and immunities mean that he is a great blind switch in, since he isn't afraid of too much. I'm not exactly sure what he does, because I find he does do so much for my team as a great switch for just about anything.

Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball are the primary STAB moves, and they are quite good in terms of coverage and power. I chose Thunderbolt because I would rather not do something like paralyze a Tyranitar switch in, and also hit bulky waters harder. WoW is a wonderful move; the accuracy is a bit off putting, but it is great at cushioning the power of Tyranitar and Snorlax, who are often Jirachi's enemies.

Overheat is, for some reason, often unexpected. And it is quite interesting to see him Overheat multiple steels at a time. I've had quite a number of Rotom sweeps for some reason. Not sure why, but he does hit quite a lot of common pokemon super effective, and is quite quick too.

I'm not exactly sure about the EVs, but they seem okay. I did a few rough calculations with the standard sweeper ones, and I think there were a few things I didn't like about them. So I increased the HP and lowered the attack a bit; so far, its a pretty good mix, getting the kills it needs and outspeeding enough stuff (with 287, it outspeeds +speed base 80s and some of the things that try to outspeed them).


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Scizor @ Life Orb
Techinician
160 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd/88 SpD
Adamant
-Bullet Punch
-Quick Attack
-Swords Dance
-Superpower

An interesting Scizor that fits my team decently. I really needed Scizor to be tough enough to take hits, but I did not want to use Roost (too many free turns). I did not want Choice Band either, since that also resulted in something really annoying like DDGyara to easily come in and then kick my ass. I have decided to go for Lefties for some extra pop for revenge jobs.

Bullet Punch is a fairly obvious move; it is why Scizor is the number one pokemon. Does a bit for revenging purposes, and with SD, can inflict quite a lot of pain. Quick Attack goes along with it to fend off DDGyara, who often switches in as I SD, and I can easily 2hko it.

For the last slot, I needed a move with coverage and power. Only Superpower fits the bill. It provides a much needed attack that has some real kick behind it, and is useful for bulkier pokemon. It also 1hkoes Skarmory after an SD while it Roosts. And kicks Blissey/Snorlax ass. Also lures in Heatran and kills him too.

The EVs are for some special bulk; he is not 2hkoed by the Surf/Draco Meteor combo from a Timid LO Latias, which is pretty darn important. It also makes him a good switch in to the likes of Starmie too. 8 Spd to outspeed other Scizor that don't run as much. I actually like being slower; that way, when other Scizor superpower, i get to hit them after they get a defense drop, and I also hit Skarmory super effective once Roost is gone.

Scizor helps handle Tyranitar, and lures in Heatran to Superpower, both threats to CM Jirachi. Also beats out Mamoswine, Latias, and scares Celebi, all annoying pokemon against Jirachi.

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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Intimidate
156 HP/40 Atk/60 Def/252 Spd or 28 HP/252 Atk/228 Spd
Jolly/Adamant
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Substitute
-Bounce/Return/Stone Edge/Outrage

SubBounce Gyarados is pretty cool, recommended by Darknessmalice. Anyway, the ability to block status has been so useful for my Gyarados, as various pokemon from Blissey to Celebi to SubHeatran always try to status me. Substitute is here to waste their turn, and get me an extra DD or two. It's very cool to have Substitute and Bounce, since it basically gives me 2 Bounces, or DDs, etc. Bounce is a very good move, since it does get STAB, and the paralysis is very nice. More importantly, after 2 DDs, it does extremely fatal damage to Celebi and Starmie. Substitute and Bounce go great together, since Bouncing results in some very cool Leftovers recovery.

Unfortunately, this set is all but walled by Vaporeon, who can just Wish around and Protect on Bounce. Still, my other team members handle her really well.

The real problem is that he has difficulty with Salamence switch ins, and sometimes Latias switch ins too.

Trying to decide for the last slot still. Return and Outrage have good coverage with Waterfall, while Stone Edge hits Zapdos, Salamence, and opposing Gyarados. Low accuracy/PP though, but Substitute helps a bit. Outrage locks in, but 2hkoes Vaporeon if I go Adamant and max attack, which is quite cool. Bounce with Sub provides some cool leftovers recovery, and can help beat Celebi, but it is pwned by Vappy.

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Latias @ Life Orb
Levitate
152 HP/8 Def/252 SpA/96 Spd
Modest
-Draco Meteor
-Surf
-Psycho Shift
-Recover

I decided to go for the offensive Psycho Shift set, and I must say it is quite good. Switch into Toxics, WoW, and sometimes paralysis, and just pass them around. Hits extremely hard, and thanks to boosted Surfs and the Modest natures, it 2hkoes Scizor and, more importantly, Tyranitar. This Latias is also quite bulky, making it a great switch in to Heatran, Rotom, and Zapdos too.

Plays an important part because it attracts T-Tar and really kicks his ass.

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Jirachi @ Leftovers
Serene Grace
252 HP/80 SpA/176 Spd
Timid
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Thunderbolt

Jirachi is total win; my star (no pun intended). As one of the few special sweepers able to beat Blissey, Jirachi is a very good stall breaker, with very little being able to stop his rampage. Except for using offensive DDGyara against noob teams, Jirachi is the only consistent 5-0/6-0 attacker I have ever used.

Jirach dismantles teams; very little stops him, and Jirachi has so much to set up against; bulky waters, Blissey, Magnezone, the list goes on. Thanks to crits and SpD drops, it is often beat out other CMers. Sub and CM are the crux of the set obviously, avoiding status and evading opposing critical hits. They also survive Blissey's Seismic Toss and are in generally really bulky, which is why so much is set up bait for Jirachi.

I like Psychic/Thunderbolt the best; I often don't the chance to kill Electrics and stuff like Swampert, so I prefer the STAB+coverage of Thunderbolt. I find pokemon like Tyranitar are already dead or weakened anyway, so its all cool with Psychic/Thunderbolt.

Standard EVs; I am considering modest because extra pop would be cool. But I guess outspeeding Lucario is worth it.
 
Not much to say here...nice team. scizors fine, but if you wanna go more offensive without wasting a slot with Quick attack i'd use:

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 34 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance

With Life orb, and a SD it 3HKO's the standard Gyara with BP, alot more power and can go late game if Jirachi kicks the bucket.

the latias set is fine, but again if you want more power Specs, and Trick>recover, to ruin anything that doesn't like specs.

SubCM jirachi is total pwn, no objection. Oh and one final thing, you could Scarf Rotom and trick>WOW to give your team a revenge killer. just a suggestion.

Hope I helped and Good luck with the team =)
 
I'm not so hot with X Scissor; 3hkoing Gyarados is pretty sucky when I hit him just as hard with priority with Quick Attack. If I went with LO, Quick Attack would get some snazzy kills against Infernape and Jolteon too.

I would definitely love to have a scarfer, but I just find Rotom suffers from 4 slot move syndrome, as does Latias. And the two often result in free turns when I use Choice items. Rotom needs WoW because Tyranitar is such a popular switch in to Rotom, and WoW just cripples him, so I'm not so sure. It would be nice to have some insurance against Gyarados or Salamence with a Scarf Latias or something, but that is just asking to get Pursuited or giving away free turns.
 
Alright, good team looking at the glance, but looking at Jirachi mainly which is the odd one out, CM Latias could easily switch in on Jirachi resisting both Thunderbolt and Psychic and boost CM for herself. After one CM it puts your team in big trouble only Scizor has the high chance to eliminate it with Bullet Punch and the leftovers is not cutting it, it won't hit as hard. Cm Latias will speed tie with your Latias and relying on speed tie is all chance, Darco Meteor won't OHKO it with one CM down while CM Latias Recovers it with ease. The only simply way to handle this is try a neutral coverage Jirachi.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Timid
252 HP /80 SpA /176 Spd

Substitue
Calm Mind
Shadow Ball
Hp [Fighting]

This set provides neutral coverage and prevents Latias from setting up on you while threatening it to switch out with Shadow Ball. This guy won't prevent Latias it will just threaten it and hope for Scizor to finish it with Bullet Punch. Speaking of Scizor I'd go with Life Orb or CB in place of leftovers so it hits hard.

Now that we have a forgotten threat to your team. Consider Explosion on your metagross, simply because this is offensive and destroying those bulky pokemon is important from ruining you from setting up. Metagross with explosion will give you at least 1 pokemon per game or 2 once you net off Meteor Mash + BP. On BulkyDos, the EV's look a bit wierd, you might want to consider standard 156 HP / 108 Atk / 100 Def / 144 Spe on it. That amount of speed is not needed, invest it more to def since you plan to make it bulky. Consider an Ice Fang in place of Bounce also to fend off with those perky dragon types, I'm talking about Flygon mainly which is immune to earthquake, neutral to waterfall and resists stone edge. Bounce will fail to OHKO with that EV spread so consider an Ice Fang, which still handles Celebi.

This team has been dismantled by Rain Teams. I only fought two, but they totally owned my ass. I could use help in this area.
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Disagree with this, just play around with switch ins. Physical Kingdra is Gyarados switch in and it's bulky too so it could take Outrage nicely, once it's locked in Scizor loves to set up SD on it. Ludicolo which usually have life orb is easy to get around, Latias resist both Surf, Grass Knot and occasional HP [Electric]. Ice Beam directed at Jirachi and Scizor. Scizor will finish it with quick attack since life orb will carve its life. The other sweepers, I really don't think they threaten the team.

Good team btw, hope this helped.
 
First off, I must say this is a good team. It doesn't have any glaring weaknesses.


Substitute Heatran is problematic. If he manages to get in on Scizor, Metagross or Rotom-h (hopefully without Flash Fire), he can set up a Sub. The only pokes that don't mind Toxic are horrible Heatran switch-ins, whilst the two pokes that can take down Heatran (Gyarados and Latias) hate it. Both will quickly lose Health thanks to a SR weakness and Bounce, and LO respectively. Sure, they laugh at Heatran, but once they're poisoned, Heatran's done his job, and he can switch to a pokemon to wall Gyarados/Latias e.g. Vaporeon/Cresselia and Blissey respectively. The same can be said for Heatran's Will o Wisp.

I would have Substitute on Gyarados in place of Earthquake/Stone Edge, and change it's EVs to Jolly 156 HP / 40 Atk / 60 Def / 252 Spe. Gyarados can switch in on that Heatran using Substitute, setting up a Substitute of his own to provide immunity to Toxic. Gyarados hates any status, especially when he takes an extra turn of Poison / Burn damage thanks to the Bounce, or has a 43.75% chance to fail with Bounce when paralysed.
The EVs allow Gyarados to outspeed speed nature boosting Heatran, base 80s and tie with other max speed Jolly Gyarados (the chances of finding one are slim, but it only requires a few extra speed EVs from outspeeding base 80s). The extra speed EVs are more important with Bounce Gyarados, so he can Bounce before the opponent attacks, increasing the chance of your opponent wasting a turn with a missed attack. The EVs were taken from Atk, so Gyarados can still function as a regular bulky Gyarados.


If you sometimes have problems with DD Gyara and DD Mence, I would have LO over Leftovers on Scizor. This enables you to revenge kill them on higher HP. That is the primary function of a double priority attack user - to revenge kill. That LO enables Bullet Punch to 2HKO Salamence.
 
@CV
I don't think neutral coverage Jirachi is necessary. The standard 108 SpA defensive Calm Minder can't break my Subs with a Surf (and obviously can't with Dragon Pulse). Eventually, I wiill nail a critial hit and KO it. If it has its own Sub, then I can PP stall it out.

As for Ice Fang, its good for dragons, but it is awful for Celebi, doing a wimply 44% maximum. I still prefer the extra speed though, since Azelf does come in every so often, and it outspeeds ScarfMagnezone, who often comes in.

I probably need LO on Scizor for the pop.

My problem with Rain Dance teams is stopping something like Bronzong from Rain Dancing again, or mixed Rain Dance teams that first weaken my mons with Rain, then use something else like DDMence to killl my team.

@ Darknessmalice

Mmm, Sub Bounce Gyara certainly seems interesting. Outspeeding Jolteon after a DD is definitely pretty cool. I will most certainly give it a shot.

Thanks for the rates guys.
 
Neutral coverage on 'Rachi is definitely not necessary on your 'Rachi. The purpose of your team really has become to set up SubCM 'Rachi to sweep with those two moves, I don't know why you would change it now. Your team is geared up to beat Tar / Tran etc... It is not nessecarily greaed up to beat the conters of the other set (although it would probably do quite well anyway lol!)

Anyway, I like the way that this team is set up. Remove stuff and sweep, it's the way that balanced teams are supposed to work, but not only that this team is also not beaten by stall! SubCM Rachi pretty much takes care of that for you (something that Flash Cannon / HP Ground doesn't do) It does, however, succumb to the other problem with balanced team, you seem to be a little swept away by hard offensive teams. This is shown quite obviously in your weakness to Rain teams and hard sweepers like DDMence and DDGyara. You obviously have tried to patch this up, and have done a good job. There may be a few things that we can do to help, though.

Have you considered Life Orb on Scizor, Although you will lose a lot of surviverability, it will do Scizor's job of revenging things much easily. That extra 30% (roughly) damage could make the difference against that Ludicolo or that Qwilfish against a Rain team, especially seeing as you have Quick Attack. Thunder Wave on Rotom may not be such a bad idea either, if they see rotom and they go "oh free Ludicolo switch in" you can deal with that, secondly that will really help you out against non-weather based offense, as it really surprises people who are expecting WoW / Thunderbolt. It's not a perfect solution but it might help you win one extra percent of games!

Addressing DDMence and DDGyara, Life Orb on Scizor will again help go the extra mile against them, hell you could even go CB and use it primarily for revenge killing purposes, although I don't know how useful swtching moves is for you, I have not used this team! Scarf HP Ice / Tbolt / Trick / WoW Rotom could be a solution, although you would have to go Timid 252 to even have a chance of beating DDMence, it might be worth trying out, but again will be a Pursuit risk. EH, try it out and see if it works.

I don't know how well we will be able to fix these problems when every member of your team has such a vital role lol. Anyway, moving onto the sets, I don't think going Modest on 'Rachi is such a great idea, I think outspeeding Lucario should be a priority, you don't want it to come in and suddenly finish your sweep. And I don't really know if offensive Psycho Shift Latias will relaly benefit you. It might be worth trying, as it will open up rotom's slot for you to put something like Porygon 2 in to deal with DDers or something that does a little more like DDTar who could sweep for you and will stop weather teams if only for a bit. I don't know, give it a go, see if it works, it's the only real way to tell these things!
 
I've made some changes that were suggested:

I've gone with Explosion on Metagross because Gyarados is really an enormous pain. Metagross takes those EQs like a man, and just blasts him out with Explosion. Rotom handles other Meta leads well enough, and Latias/Gyarados for Infernape. Infernape turns into Gyara bait I often find.

I dislike Choice items on Rotom, due to Pursuit and the fact that he can often nail super effective hits one after another. Thunderwave seemed appealing, but I would much rather burn T-Tar, and Thunderwave is useless against DDMence, since it 1hkoes. Plus, WoW wears down on walls, and stall is really annoying.

I went with LO on Scizor. However, I find his new lack of durability appaling against stall, because he is easily phazed by Skarm and Swampert, and he has to continuously take residual damage.

SubBounce Gyara is quite cool, though I have found that random crap like Latias can actually set up on me if I get burned if I play retarded (like Rotom switching in). Still, its much easier to get multiple DDs with Sub. Perhaps another attack to go with Waterfall; Return perhaps? The coverage is decent.

I went with the offensive Psycho Shift Latias; it is quiiite cool. Love the extra power, and the psycho shift for any status. Its really cool. Except I despise how slow he is.

Thanks for the rates guys.
 
Lol Chenman ur teams never suck

anyways, SD scizor isnt that big of a threat because of Magnezone, so you could go something like SD and Uturn to scout for incoming Maggys

the problem is that you cant really replace any of the moves without losing coverage, but If you had to choose one I guess it would be Superpower, seeing as it decreases ur chances of a sweep after a first time use.

However, Superpower is a good option to deal with Bulky Waters so its up to you.

Another thing I dont like about Bounce is that, it is a 2 turn attack after all. The only places where I can think of it worthwhile is against Celebi and Breloom, but neither will stay in waiting for Gyarados to come in, now will they? (no seriously, do they, Ive never seen a Celebi actually stay in.

Because of this, you could possible go with Stone Edge over Bounce to beat Salamence, as well as Zapdos. You're still gonna lose vs Vaporeon and Suicune but Bounce doesnt help out vs those 2 either.

One last thing is that by you going Modest on ur Latias, coupled with the fact that ur Scizor lacks Pursuit, a Timid Latias can do some heavy damage if they bring in Magnezone against ur Scizor's Bullet Punch, while if you SuperPower and Latias stays in, you lose anyway.

personally I run a CM Latias, so Jirachi just cant boost its SpDef sky high hoping to win.

For this reason, I think you'd need a scarfer or an actually attacking Azelf with Uturn or Ice Punch. It could go over Latias as i think its the most replacable, as Azelf does everything it does anyway minus the recovery, plus the ability to pack fire moves and HP Fight.

If clearing Blissey is big for ur Jirachi, Azelf also knows explosion, so its definitely something to consider.
 
Thanks for the rate flyingsolo:

That magnezone is indeed a problem, but U Turn isn't going to fix that anyway, since U Turn only works on the switch. Usually I just take advantage of magnezone by getting my Latias in for free, or use Jirachi to set up. Or sometimes Gyarados.

Yeah, sometimes I don't like Bounce too much either. It is a cool move with Substitute and Leftovers, but I might just make Gyarados more offensive and just stick with Return for the still excellant coverage. I have lost a few matches due to Bounce's suckiness, but I have won sometimes due to the paralysis and the ability to force people to predict around me.

I agree that Timid Latias is a huge issue. Luckily, Jirachi DOES beat the CM versions if it doesn't have substitute with a critical hit, and if it does have substitute, it probably only carries Dragon Pulse, so I just PP stall it out.

I probably do need a scarfer somewhere to deal with some stuff, but overall, its difficult to find a place for it. Latias is oh so important because it is a good switch in to a variety of pokemon, and it happens to beat some of Jirachi's switch ins too.
 
I would go with stone edge on that Gyrardos because water,rock gets the best coverage. It means you get walled by celebi, but with Metagross, Scizor, and Jirachi, and rotom, it won't be a problem for you.
 
Taunt over substitute on your Gyrados would likely stop most of the status you're trying to avoid, would fix your Vaporeon problem, and likely give you the same chances substitute gave you to DD. I sorta agree on the Stone Edge over Bounce as well, but you seem to like the combo with Leftovers, and it's nice to see on one. 8)
 
Stone Edge really doesn't go that well with Waterfall in terms of coverage; water+normal or water+dragon hit everything except for Empoleon and Shedinja in OU, which is as good as it gets. Water+Flying is in the same boat as water+normal, mostly. Bounce is very nice in that with Substitute, the recovery that you can get from Leftovers is rather incredible over a few turns of Bouncing.

Stone Edge is nice in that it hits Gyarados, Zapdos, and Salamence all super effectively, as they certainly have caused problems for me before. Perhaps I am better off with it, as those three certainly can cause problems for me.

I disagree about Taunt; though it can save me from status, it doesn't allow Gyara to scout for attacks, and it provides me with a cushion to hide behind. I much prefer Substitute over Taunt.

I will certainly try out Stone Edge though.
 
chenman333 said:
Stone Edge really doesn't go that well with Waterfall in terms of coverage; water+normal or water+dragon hit everything except for Empoleon and Shedinja in OU, which is as good as it gets. Water+Flying is in the same boat as water+normal, mostly. Bounce is very nice in that with Substitute, the recovery that you can get from Leftovers is rather incredible over a few turns of Bouncing.

Stone Edge is nice in that it hits Gyarados, Zapdos, and Salamence all super effectively, as they certainly have caused problems for me before. Perhaps I am better off with it, as those three certainly can cause problems for me.

I disagree about Taunt; though it can save me from status, it doesn't allow Gyara to scout for attacks, and it provides me with a cushion to hide behind. I much prefer Substitute over Taunt.

I will certainly try out Stone Edge though.
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I was referring to commen problem pokemon like the one's you mentioned, not necessarily neutral coverage.

I think taunt is a good option because it allows you to take on phazers, but you can go with substitute if that's what you prefer. I'd also worry about the 50% you take on the switch to stealth rock and then the substitute.
 
Yeah, but then going with Stone Edge brings some other new found problems too :/ Can't win them all.

Concerning phazers, yes they are an issue, but no more so than any others. The nice thing about Bounce is that if something like Skarmory comes in, I can get a Bounce in to get a bit of extra Lefties recovery, which helps for when I go back in. Also, I usually don't Substitute right off the bat, and usually only when I see fit.
 
Your team seems pretty solid. The only thing I can really say is Jirachi v Latias. You have to get Jirachi set-up before Latias, otherwise your in for a stall war. Chances are Jirachi's PP will run out first and since you have no healing move. You see where I'm coming from, but yeah awesome team.
 
^^^ Jirachi wins most of the time. If Latias lacks Substitute, well, the critical hit is inevitable and she will die. Also, she never breaks it with Surf (assuming standard 108 SpA defensive Calm Minder). If she does have Substitute, that means she is only running Dragon Pulse; so she will run out of Dragon Pulses first.

I'm mainly looking for help with Gyara.
 
chenman333 said:
I'm mainly looking for help with Gyara.
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Well I use:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 58 HP/252 Atk/32 Def/168 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge/Earthquake
- Ice Fang/Bounce

Kind of a bulky mence with a twist, makes sure i outspeed jolteon after a dd, and the def evs, make Scizors BP fail to 4HKO (i think), mainly just set up on scizor and sweep, getting atleast 3 DDs. Ice fang actually 2Hkos celebi after 2 DDs which shouldn't be a problem the way you use it. Whatever more of just an insight.
 
^^^^ I probably shouldn't need SubGyarados now that I have Psycho Shift Latias for Heatran, now that I realize it, so I should probably give all out sweeping Gyarados a shot.

Unfortunately, I really just don't see how Gyarados can actually beat his counters, like Vaporeon or Gyarados, without hax. He just doesn't. SubGyarados has a fair shot at beating Celebi with Bounce, and has a bit of a shot againt Vaporeon with Adamant+Outrage.

Ugh. Gyarados is otherwise a great pokemon.
 
Nice to see you again chenman, after having lost to you back on shoddy. :P

Anyways, I see a clear, glaring weakness to Tyranitar in this team, whether it be Choice Band, Dragon Dance, or even Boah variants. While you state that Latias can 2HKO with Surf and Rotom-h can "cripple" with Will-O-Wisp, this surely will not allow you to switch in Pokémon into Tyranitar safely without being at risk of any of its attacks, especially Crunch.

I find it a bit arbitrary that you are running Rotom on an offensive team, although I can see some reason for it on your team, as it does give your team a great check against Scizor and Lucario. However, I feel that you can drop it for something better, as Rotom-h does not provide much for your team in terms of resistances, since every type Rotom-h resists is double-resisted on your team elsewhere, barring a double-resistance to Electric.

As a recommendation, I would suggest giving MixPert a try, as it makes a great transition Pokémon with its ability to keep Pokémon such as Salamence and Tyranitar at bay along with having superior type-coverage. While Swampert may slow down your team some, I think the handy resistances Swampert provides is worth it.
 
Tyranitar is indeed a big scary threat, but no more than opposing Gyarados and Salamence in all honesty. His only free switch in is Jirachi, who generally doesn't come out till later. Scizor is the main check though; he doesn't threaten my team too much with Scizor around, though I imagine Shapiri Berry DDTar would cause this team problems.

Rotom is still a very useful pokemon; he has 3 great immunities, and WoW is really quite useful. Swampert is certainly better vs. Salamence and Tyranitar, while Rotom does better against Scizor, Lucario, Metagross, and IMO, more stuff. Rotom is no joke offensive, as STAB electric, ghost, and a big Overheat can really hit some teams hard. Also, Swampert is another pokemon that lets Skarmory set up (unless I run Hydro Pump), and he is weak to spikes/Tspikes while Rotom is not.

I will try him out if I get the chance, though I feel Rotom might be a bit better. Oh, and he is a pretty good switch in for Celebi, Vaporeon, and Starmie, all troublesome for Gyarados.
 
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