FIRST ATTEMPTED PRACTICAL OU TEAM, <3 FOR VENUSAUR

AlaskanMushroom

Team at a Glance:
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This is my first attempt at an OU team that doesn't play on gimmicks or other cheap hacks. I built it around my favorite pokemon, Venusaur, and used my 2 favorite waters (Suicune and Gyarados) as sweepers. I'm not sure how economical the team turned out to be, or how practical it is, and I'm seeking some solid advice to improve (I'm 5-4) it. Feel free to be harsh, I'll understand the criticism. Just keep in mind, however, that this IS my first attempt at an OU team, and I didn't have much to go by other than what I've read on this site and bulbapedia.

Thanks for reading my thread, and hopefully for rating my team! =)


LEAD/TANK

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Venusaur @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP, 128 Def, 128 SpD
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed
Substitute
Giga Drain

Venusaur is my FAVORITE pokemon, and I like the idea of him as a lead, even in OU. The worst that will happen is the opposing lead will set up stealth rocks/spikes or a taunt. In the event of taunt, Venusaur needs to get out of there, which doesn't turn out to be a bad thing in most cases as I utilize a fo-lead in Metagross. The idea is, subdue the lead, and set up if the opposition is dumb enough to give Venusaur a chance with leech seed and substitute. Venusaur is rarely OHKOd by just about anything, and that's bad news for counters, especially if they are gone by late game. Venusaur has very good natural bulk, and throws it around when he wants to set up his sub and leech seed on neutral opponents. This Venusaur operates very well against bulky waters like Vaporeon and Suicune, and as I said, can set up and out-stall/drain neutral opponents that otherwise would swing a pretty mighty hammer. Venusaur outpaces many bulky leads like Swampert, who is doomed one way or the other barring a switch, and bronzong among others. This is good news for a quick sleep and hopefully free sub on a switch.


FO-LEAD
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Metagross @ Light Clay
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP, 72 Def, 176 SpD, 8 Spe
Reflect
Light Screen
Stealth Rock
Explosion

Metagross is my fo-lead, and tends to follow closely after Venusaur, as he resists all of Venusaurs counters barring Fire, in which case I switch straight to one of my bulky water sweepers, which are listed below. The EV spread allows him to survive long enough against three of it's classic counters (Magnezone, Dugtrio, and Heatran). The obvious goal is to get up both screens and explode. If Heatran can get in and force a switch, odds are he can set up stealth rock, too, as an appropriate reflect or screen against one of the three listed counters allows it enough time to get up it's friend before exploding into the sunset. The screens work very well with my two water sweepers, Suicune in particular.


TANKY SWEEPER
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Suicune @ Life Orb
Modest Nature
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Calm Mind
Ice Beam
Hydro Pump
HP Electric

I love this suicune... with all my heart. No one sees her coming. With the screens and her natural bulk, it's more than easy for her to get off 2 calm minds 70% of the time, setting up for a very very painful 3 or 4 turns for my opponent. Hydro pump is not in stone, as surf is a more conservative option (I've always been a sucker for the additional power =P). Ice Beam, HP Electric, and a powerful STAB Hydro Pump provide great coverage, and nearly garuntees Suicune a chance to rip up one or two opponents before going under.


ANTI-SWEEPER/MID-LATE GAME COUNTER-SWEEPER
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Weavile @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
EVs: 212 Spe, 252 Atk, 40 Spe
Swords Dance
Ice Shard
Low Kick
Night Slash

This Weavile is my saving grace when it comes to destroying dragons - dragon sweeps in particular. He is also my tertiary option to sweep. The idea is, get him in on a dragon caught up in an outrage (most likely a salamance), and OHKO with ice shard. This allows him a likely opportunity to set up swords dance on a counter, as his speed beats out nearly the entire metagame, barring scarffed revenge killers, who i will switch out on or ice shard depending on the pokemon. The focus band will hopefully hold barring spikes/toxic spikes/stealth rocks (I am trying to find room for a rapid spinner in my team, because i KNOW weavile is essentially screwed without the support). Assuming the sash allows weavile a second attack, he will take out his counter with one of his 3 powerful moves, now +2 attack. A mid-game sweeper, counter-sweeper if he can avoid residual damage.


REVENGE KILLER/CLEANUP CREW
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Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
Evs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Atk
Fire Blast
Explosion
Dragon Pulse
HP Electric

My last two pokemon, Heatran and Gyarados, are a little like partners in crime. The idea is Heatran goes in first, revenge killing for Weavile or Suicune, and luring out a pokemon that will attempt to in turn revenge kill heatran with a ground/water/fighting move, all of which Gyarados resist. Heatran switches out and into Gyarados, allowing Gyarados a free chance to set up a dragon dance. If Gyarados manages to sweep through the opposing team, great. But odds are he will tear a few holes and displace the counter sent in to take care of Heatran. This sets up heatran to re-ener the battle, and use one of his 4 moves to OHKO whatever is left, likely a STAB Fire Blast, which tears gargantuan holes in anything that does not resist it.


STANDARD SWEEPER/GENERAL SWEEPER
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Gyarados @ Expert Belt
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Earthquake

I love this gyarados on this team. Standard dragon dancer + Expert Belt instead of a Life Orb, as I already gave one to Suicune. As stated earlier, the idea is to come in on Metagross's walls, or off into one of Heatran's counter's moves. Both of these allow Gyarados a fantastic opportunity to set up a free dragon dance or two before commencing a tidy sweep with the typical waterfall/stone edge/earthquake combo. It's a pretty simple idea, but I think Gyarados works outrageously well with this team. I'm also considering salamance for the final slot, as he packs more punch and is more feared, but Gyarados is one of my favorite pokemon, and I hate using Salamance ever. If it really makes more sence to run a Salamance, however, one of you needs to beat some sense into me and drill it into my head that I NEED Salamance on this team before I take Gyarados out.

A few final thoughts:

Thank you for the read =) I'm sorry I didn't do an analysis of every pokemon and how my team deals, but no glaring opponent jumps out as a huge huge threat, other than Breloom, who I hate with an undying passion. If anyone can think of a way to deal with a standard Breloom using this team, PLEASE let me know.

Have a good day, all =)
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I would suggest an offensive Choice Scarf Venusaur in the lead slot. It can Sleep stuff, stop Stealth Rock and hurt things with its STAB Leaf Storms. As a Sub-Seeder, it's completely outclassed by Breloom's better ability and typing.
 
Don't give Weavile Focus Sash, its a waste of an item, almost every team these days has SR or Spikes up so it nulls your Sash, give it a Life Orb instead, so it does some good damage, its so frail the LO recoil won't mean anything.

Gyardos wants LO as well.

Don't use Giga Suck on Venusaur, give it Energy Ball or Grass Knot. I would also drop Substitute for Earthquake.

Also, on Suicune, I would personally give it Leftovers, since it has enough bulk to take a fair amount of hits and LO kinda wastes that bulk imo. Also, Hydro Pump is fairly unreliable, so I would put Surf over it, which also gives you more PP lest you get PP stalled.

HP Ice is kinda useless on Heatran as it overs no additional coverage, HP Grass would be better so its not walled by ground types.

Thats all I got right now.

Good luck.
 
That Venusaur is a horrible lead. If you're going to be switching to Metagross most of the time, then just lead with Metagross. If you want to lead with Venusaur, use the Choice Scarf set so you at least won't get Taunted.

Suicune wants to be Timid. This lets you outspeed Lucario, Gyarados, Dragonite, etc.

Never ever use Focus Sash on a non-lead Pokemon. You don't have any way of ridding Stealth Rock/Spikes, so your Focus Sash will be useless almost every time.

Give Gyarados Life Orb. No one plays with Item clause anyways.
 
Ice-eyes said:
I would suggest an offensive Choice Scarf Venusaur in the lead slot. It can Sleep stuff, stop Stealth Rock and hurt things with its STAB Leaf Storms. As a Sub-Seeder, it's completely outclassed by Breloom's better ability and typing.
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I like the scarf idea... although I really really like Venusaur as a subseed lead. He's worked well in his current form, but I can see how it would be good to get a quick sleep on a taunt lead and proceed from there. He can pop back in on something attempting to KO my Gyarados with anything electric and likely reply with an earthquake... Also would do fairly well switching in on Heatran counters. I took the standard idea for a scarfed venusaur, using:

Venusaur @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Modest
EV Spread: 56 HP / 72 Atk / 164 SpA / 216 Spe
Sludge Bomb
Leaf Storm
Earthquake
Sleep Powder

Venusaur outpaces nearly every lead with this set, OHKOing Swampert, quick sleeping Foretress and Bronzong, and OHKOing Aerodactyl... I like what I'm seeing so far. Thanks for the suggestion.

Jewgong said:
Don't give Weavile Focus Sash, its a waste of an item, almost every team these days has SR or Spikes up so it nulls your Sash, give it a Life Orb instead, so it does some good damage, its so frail the LO recoil won't mean anything.

Gyardos wants LO as well.

Don't use Giga Suck on Venusaur, give it Energy Ball or Grass Knot. I would also drop Substitute for Earthquake.

Also, on Suicune, I would personally give it Leftovers, since it has enough bulk to take a fair amount of hits and LO kinda wastes that bulk imo. Also, Hydro Pump is fairly unreliable, so I would put Surf over it, which also gives you more PP lest you get PP stalled.

HP Ice is kinda useless on Heatran as it overs no additional coverage, HP Grass would be better so its not walled by ground types.

Thats all I got right now.

Good luck.
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I have accepted that the Weavile will almost NEVER get a situation where it enters without residual damage. Definitely going with the life orb to give more oomph to the ice shard, as I figure he's going to be getting in there for one attack and switching right away anyway, unless I figure he'll outpace a counter and can score a OHKO or, if his job has been done, rip a large hole in it.

I switched to Surf on Suicune, as the PP had become an issue, and it's worked much better, as I was still scoring the same one hits, and doing more regular damage. I'm keeping life orb on her, however, as she really takes no damage from neutral hits behind the wall, and scores more one and two hits with the boost from the orb. Having said this, I will try the leftys and see how it works out... Suicune WOULD be virtually invincible behind the walls + leftovers.

I switched Venusaur entirely to the set listed above, but I agree, Venusaur needs to do the additional damage Grass Knot supplies. The recovery isn't much of an issue after Leech Seed and Leftovers.

Weavile and Suicune provide plenty of ice power, so I switched the Heatran to HP grass.. Although I would still like to find an attack that provides more coverage, as Venusaur can now switch in with Leaf Storm and do the same job better.

aragornbird said:
That Venusaur is a horrible lead. If you're going to be switching to Metagross most of the time, then just lead with Metagross. If you want to lead with Venusaur, use the Choice Scarf set so you at least won't get Taunted.

Suicune wants to be Timid. This lets you outspeed Lucario, Gyarados, Dragonite, etc.

Never ever use Focus Sash on a non-lead Pokemon. You don't have any way of ridding Stealth Rock/Spikes, so your Focus Sash will be useless almost every time.

Give Gyarados Life Orb. No one plays with Item clause anyways.
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I'm taking the first poster's advice, and going with the scarf Venusaur lead. That gives me a free turn to switch in Metagross, assuming I put their lead to sleep.

Switching Suicune's nature to Timid takes a lot of power away from her, especially if I end up switching to leftovers. The idea was to lull my opponent into expecting a bulky water, and turn around and sweep. However, I will consider this, and see how badly I get outpaced in my next few games.

Gyarados has a LO now. Much better =D. I wasn't sure if Item Clause was played with or not.

Thanks for the help, all =) I appreciate all the advice.
 
You may need to rethink about the idea of making a team around Venusaur precisely, because in OU, the Choice Scarf set is outclassed by Roserade due to its superior Special Attack and Speed base, while the SubSeed role is better accomplished by Breloom. Between Roserade and Breloom, Venusaur's possible functions on a OU team get extremely reduced. But anyways, I'm not gonna change the main idea of this team unless you tell me to do so.

On with the rate, starting the game with that set of Venusaur isn't the best you can do, but what you could consider is give Venusaur a Choice Scarf and use the following spread: 80 HP / 176 Spd / 252 SpA with a Timid nature. This spread allows you to outspeed max. Speed Aerodactyl (one of the fastest leads in OU that set up SR), and prevent him to do so by putting him to sleep. As for the moves, I'd rather let you choose them ;)

On Suicune, I suggest changing the nature to Timid, so that it will be able to outspeed Adamant Gyarados and Lucario, propitiating them a hard and unexpected hit with Hidden Power and Hydro Pump respectively. Also, I would give Suicune Leftovers if I were you, for more overall bulk.

Both Weavile and Gyarados should use a Life Orb instead of their current item. The power that this item adds is completely necessary if you want to hit really hard once you set up Swords Dance and Dragon Dance respectively. On Gyarados, I recommend you to try out Bounce instead of EQ, and change the nature to Adamant, so that Celebi (one of the more reliable counters to Gyarados) won't attempt to frustrate your sweeping.
On the other hand, Heatran must run Earth Power (preferably over HP Electric) to have a way to revenge kill Infernape, opposing Heatran, among others. Also, if you are using Explosion, you may find useful to use Hasty/Naive nature instead of Timid, just to give Explosion a little of extra power.

The team overall looks very weak to Electric-type moves, therefore, Jolteon, Zapdos and Rotom could be hard to take down. Your best card to play against them is Heatran, Lucario's revenge killer, and considering that the team does not have Wish support, you'll find yourself inside a difficult situation once you face the aforementioned threats. I can't think of anything quick to fix the problem, so in my opinion if you want to fix this problem, then the team will need more complicated changes.

Good luck ;)
 
Setsuna. said:
You may need to rethink about the idea of making a team around Venusaur precisely, because in OU, the Choice Scarf set is outclassed by Roserade due to its superior Special Attack and Speed base, while the SubSeed role is better accomplished by Breloom. Between Roserade and Breloom, Venusaur's possible functions on a OU team get extremely reduced. But anyways, I'm not gonna change the main idea of this team unless you tell me to do so.

On with the rate, starting the game with that set of Venusaur isn't the best you can do, but what you could consider is give Venusaur a Choice Scarf and use the following spread: 80 HP / 176 Spd / 252 SpA with a Timid nature. This spread allows you to outspeed max. Speed Aerodactyl (one of the fastest leads in OU that set up SR), and prevent him to do so by putting him to sleep. As for the moves, I'd rather let you choose them ;)

On Suicune, I suggest changing the nature to Timid, so that it will be able to outspeed Adamant Gyarados and Lucario, propitiating them a hard and unexpected hit with Hidden Power and Hydro Pump respectively. Also, I would give Suicune Leftovers if I were you, for more overall bulk.

Both Weavile and Gyarados should use a Life Orb instead of their current item. The power that this item adds is completely necessary if you want to hit harder once you set up Swords Dance and Dragon Dance respectively. On Gyarados, I recommend you to try out Bounce instead of EQ, and change the nature to Adamant, so that Celebi (one of the more reliable counters to Gyarados) won't attempt to frustrate your sweeping.

And one last nitpick, Heatran must run Earth Power (preferably over HP Electric) to have a way to revenge kill Infernape, opposing Heatran, among others. Also, if you are using Explosion, you may find useful to use Hasty/Naive nature instead of Timid, just to give Explosion a little of extra power.

Good luck ;)
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I actually decided to switch Venusaur to the spread you listed (see the post above yours), and it works great! Thanks, much =). I was seeking an answer for Heatran's final slot, and earth power really helps, as I have 3 neutrals against ground moves, 2 super effectives, and 1 immunity. Scarfed heatran w/STAB earth power will do nicely to take out grounds, and provides better coverage on my team than HP ice/electric does.

Thanks =)
 
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