First Gen V Team

[rylau00]

I’m relatively new to the 5th Gen competitive battling scene, but I’ve been flipping through the RMTs, picking up strategies and whatnot randomly. With so many weather teams in the fifth gen, I decided on attempting a non-weather team (non-weather is also coincidentally a personal preference as well). My sets are generally generic as I lack experience in the field, so any constructive criticisms would be much appreciated.


The Team

LEAD

Thundurus @ Wise Glasses

Ability: Prankster

EV: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spd

Nature: Modest (+Sp. Atk / -Atk)

-Taunt
-Thunder Wave
-Thunderbolt
-Psychic

So this is basically your run-of-the-mill Thundurus, with the typical Prankster moveset. Obviously a useful lead, always managing to paralyze something and stops the opposing lead from setting up. Thunderbolt is a nice STAB attacking move, and Psychic is there to cover this metagames common Fighting types, since no other Pokemon in my team can do that. The cliche EVs are obviously there for the max Speed in order to Taun/TWave first turn, then attack on the second. Nothing much else here since this guy is pretty frail.

Type Weaknesses:
Rock - Covered by Scizor, Heatran, Swampert and Starmie
Ice - Covered by Scizor, Heatran, Swampert and Starmie

BULKY PHYSICAL

Dragonite @ Lum Berry

Ability: Multiscale

EV: 252 HP / 126 Atk / 126 Spd

Nature: Adamant (+Atk / -Sp. Atk)

-Dragon Dance
-Roost
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Punch

Dragonite is my favourite Pokemon and I was severely disappointed when Salamence came along and outsmashed it. Since 3rd Gen, I haven't seen very many Dragonites around, what with being extremely outclassed each generation by new, stronger, faster Dragons like Mence, Chomp, and now Haxorus and Hydreigon, but with the release of Multiscale, Dragonite seemed to take "Bulky" to a new level. The moveset itself is lacking in creativity but what can I say, I wanted my Bulky DDNite. Dance on the switch, then Dance again on the next (or Roost) then go all out with the heavy hitting. I put Fire Punch in because I don't want Ballooned/Flying/Levitating Steels (Excadrill,Bronzong, Skarmory etc.) all over me. I find that this version of perfect coverage suits me better than Earthquake. I've seen various EVs thrown around for Bulky DDNite, but I decided on the 126 Atk to give it more punch. Why put EVs in Spd when I can just Dance again to remedy that?

Type Weaknesses:
Rock - Covered by Scizor, Heatran, Swampert and Starmie
Ice - Covered by Scizor, Heatran, Swampert and Starmie
Dragon - Covered by Scizor, Heatran and (sometimes) Swampert

SCOUT/PRIORITY

Scizor @ Life Orb

Ability: Technician

EV: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Nature: Adamant

-Swords Dance
-Roost
-U-Turn
-Bullet Punch

Ah Scizor, Gen 4's infestation. Choice Banders running around all over the place. I like the idea of versatility, and switching is not something I usually do well, so I prefer LO/SD, as it seems to provide a Scizor that can SD once or twice, Roost, then proceed with a Bullet Punch sweep, U-Turning at the right moment to nab a nice matchup or save its own butt. I often find this Scizor hard to set up (I mentioned that I am relatively new to the battling scene, though I do battle friends who play online) because of the number of Fighting and Fire type moves around, but once I get him set up, this Scizor can easily nab 2-3 KOs. The EVs are standard fare, maxing speed for emergency Roosts/U-Turns on slower Pokemon and Life Orb maxes power without limiting attacking options.

Type Weaknesses:
Fire - Covered by Dragonite, Heatran, Swampert and Starmie

SPECIAL SWEEPER/STEALTH ROCK

Heatran @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Flash Fire

EV: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spd

Nature: Modest (+Sp. Atk / -Atk)

-Toxic
-Dragon Pulse
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power

Another one of Gen 4's dominating players, I tend to bring Heatran in early/mid-game in order to get Stealth Rocks up, but after that I pull him out until late game, as he is terrific at cleaning up weakened Pokemon. All standard sweeping stuff, but the lack of a Choice Scarf for Speed sometimes is a letdown, although the Balloon is useful while it is intact for negating Ground moves. Heatran gets switched in often because pretty much every weakness the other team members have, Heatran resists. Nothing much more to say.

Type Weaknesses:
Water - Covered by Dragonite, Scizor, Swampert and Starmie
Fighting - Covered by Thundurus, Dragonite, Swampert and Starmie
Ground - Covered by Thundurus, Dragonite, Swampert and Starmie

PHYSICAL PHAZER

Swampert @ Leftovers

Ability: Torrent

EV: 252 HP / 126 Def / 126 Sp. Def

Nature: Adamant (+Atk / - Sp. Atk)

-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Waterfall
-Roar

Swampert is my all-time favourite starter (although I'm really not sure why) and although his usefulness has declined since the last generation, I find that he doesn't have much trouble fitting on to the team. I'm having a dilemma as to whether Swampert or Heatran should have Stealth Rock and what move should be used to replace it on either. Swampert has great natural bulk though and the given EVs completely max out its defensive capabilities. I opted for an attack boosting nature though in order to retain status as a mild threat in Bulky Sweeping. I rarely see Swamperts anymore in this metagame, but from what I have seen, this Swampert seems to have the best defensive capabilities of all.

Type Weaknesses:
Grass - Covered by Thundurus, Dragonite, Scizor and Heatran

RAPID SPINNER/SUPPORT

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge

Ability: Liquid Ooze

EV: 252 HP / 210 Def / 20 Sp. Def / 28 Spd

Nature: Calm (+Sp. Def / -Atk)

-Rapid Spin
-Toxic Spikes
-Hex
-Scald

So I decided to take Captain Dragan's advice and bring in a Tentacruel to replace my Starmie and so far he's been working much better thanks to his better bulk. I find that he has an easier time switching in because of a nice enough Sp. Def to function as a semi-wall. I decided on Black Sludge in order to prevent Trickers from gaining Leftovers recovery, but its more of a gimmick than anything . Hex works well on Ghosts trying to Spinblock and Scald has so far netted me far more burns than expected. Thanks for the recommendation King Dragan.

RETIRED

RAPID SPINNER/STATUS ABSORBER

Starmie @ Absorb Bulb

Ability: Natural Cure

EV: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spd

Nature: Timid (+Spd / -Atk)

-Rapid Spin
-Recover
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam

Starmie has several functions on this team, namely to remove entry hazards for Dragonite, absorb Water moves for Heatran and absorb status for everybody in general. It functions nicely, although its frailty is slightly annoying, since it tends to die quicker than I would like it to. The status absorption and hazard removal are the main uses for this Starmie, and it provides those services invaluably. The Absorb Bulb is more gimmicky, since only one Pokemon on my team is weak to water, but under the right circumstances, a +1 Sp. Atk Starmie can become a very viable sweeper in my opinion...although so far I haven't had much luck in activating the Bulb.

Type Weaknesses:
Electric - Covered by Scizor, Heatran and Swampert
Grass - Covered by Thundurus, Dragonite, Scizor and Heatran
Bug - Covered by Thundurus, Dragonite, Scizor and Heatran
Ghost - Covered by Scizor and Heatran
Dark - Covered by Scizor and Heatran

So thats it guys! Constructive criticisms appreciated, especially with the Stealth Rock dilemma on Heatran/Swampert!

EDIT: Added Scarf and Toxic to Heatran, Modest on Thundurus, Timid on Starmie

 

[Gliscor75]

Hi mate,

I'll help you with your Stealth Rock problem and a few other things.
First of all, it's a good team with no shared weaknesses apart from Rock Pokemon but that can be taken care of by Swampert's Waterfall or Earthquake. I'd go for Heatran for SR because it has pretty average 77 base Speed but Swampert has only 60. If you are looking for something to replace Swampert's SR with, I'd choose Stone Edge because it offers good coverage and power. Swampert's moveset should look like:

Swampert @ Leftovers
EVs Hp 252/126 Def/126 Sp. Def
-Stone Edge
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Roar

Hope this helps

 

[X Kitsune X]

I don't see much point in using max speed on thundurus, since he has prankster and thunder wave, and he'll outspeed most pokemon once they're paralyzed. If you invested the EV's in HP instead, you could get rid of some of the frailty. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Griff]

I don't see much point in using max speed on thundurus, since he has prankster and thunder wave, and he'll outspeed most pokemon once they're paralyzed. If you invested the EV's in HP instead, you could get rid of some of the frailty. That's just my opinion though.

Thundurus is already really frail, max speed beats latios and other stuff.
I suggest ditched swampert For ferrthorn.
On dragonite I prefer more of an Offensive spread, because with the spread you have you'll have to set up more DDs.

 

[HurricaneBeeNYC]

Really well built team only a few suggestions i'd like to make. I think your Thundurus can do w/o Wide Lens because none of it's moves lack accuracy you may want to give him Life Orb or Leftovers. Secondly, i think you should keep the Stealh Rocks on Heatran & give Swampert an additional attack(Stone Edge,Avalanche, or Hammer Arm), a status move(Yawn/Toxic), or Protect to help him scout the enemy. Lastly, you may want to reconsider the Choice Scarf on Heatran because once the Air Balloon is popped be comes a small liability & since you're using him for his resistances he is more than likely going to be switching-in on some attacks & that'll waste the Balloon.

 

[HurricaneBeeNYC]

Thundurus is already really frail, max speed beats latios and other stuff.

You don't exactly need max speed to beat anything if he is going for the status move primarily & prankster gives him priority. So your argument becomes a bit lackluster.

 

[Drake]

Considering the SR, I suggest you to give it to Swampert and replace the SR on Heatran with HP Ice which is very useful for Dragon/Flying types in the metagame nowdays,and also try equiping Heatran with Choice Scarf instead of Air Ballon,if you predict Earthquake/Earth Power you can simply switch into Dnite or Thundurus and Choice Scarf will allow you to outspeed other Heatrans',Vaporeon and some other things you wouldn't outspeed w/o it.Also, I preffer running Toxic over Dragon Pulse since,HP Ice hits both Dragons and Flying types. Here's the moveset I've been using and turned out to be pretty good.
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire

Nature: Modest
-HP Ice
-Toxic
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power

Toxic lets me cripple alot of thing such as Bulky DD Gyarados and Vaporeon on the switch,and you don't have to worry since all Heatrans' weaknesses are covered by Dragonite.
Good luck and hope I helped!

 

[Charizard92]

Pretty decent team, I'd love to battle it some time.

For Stealth Rocks, I'd put them on swampert, as heatran has too much offensive potential to waste a moveslot with rocks. here's the set I would suggest:

Hide

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
252spatt/speed, 4 def (I always keep an odd HP number for entry hazards, trust me I've won by 1hp before cause of it)
Modest nature (you're scarfed anyway, and while the speed isn't anything to get excited over even with a scarf, you net some key 1hk0's/2hk0's)
-Fire Blast
-Dragon Pulse
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power Grass/Electric/Ice

This set has amazing neutral and super effective coverage. Things you hit and things you have to switch on depend on what HP you choose:

Grass- Destroys dual grass weak pokes (most notably swampert and quagsire) along with some less-bulky grass weaknesses (most notably starmie). This is my personal favourite and I run it on EVERY offensive heatran I have. You'll have to switch out on Gyarados if you get locked in to this, and gyara does a decent job of walling the set if you choose this, especially if it's specially bulky. You also have to watch out for opposing heatran carrying balloons, as they'll brush off HP grass or dragon pulse and 1hk0 back with earth power.

Electric- Gyarados. The main threat from the first set hardly sees this coming and does not like even the tiniest of electric shocks. If you predict a ground pokemon coming in, GET OUT. Don't second guess yourself, and if you know they only have one ground poke, try to bring in something to beat it on the double switch. It'll send your opponent into panic mode, and that's when people make mistakes.

Ice- For most other pokes, I would list Gliscor and most dragons here, but to be honest, Gliscor is raped by Fire Blast, you should only run this if you don't want to risk the 85% accuracy not pulling through. Other than that, you have dragon pulse for dragons, depending on the dragon this would be the better option.

All in all, Fire Blast wrecks most things when you're talking modest heatran, still grabbing tonnes of 1-2hk0's, even in the bulkier gen 5 metagame. Beware, by the second time you switch out your opponent should know you're scarfed, and they'll be ready to deal with it, so that's when you'll have to predict. If you want to ease prediction and still keep the speed, you could run timid with a life orb (essentially, you have a third of a life orb when you run modest nature, so it's like modest nature with a bit of a boost), but you will be outsped by a lot, as this metagame has faster pokes in it then 4th gen. Also, watch out for priority on conkledurr and azumarril

other than that, you're (co-incidentally) wrecked by heatran, especially with balloon. Swampert doesn't have the raw power to 1hk0 one with no EV's and waterfall, and nothing else can do enough damage before it takes out 2-3 pokes. To remedy this, I would suggest running surf/scald/hydro pump on Starmie instead of Tbolt, as thundurus already has it, and it outspeed every set (bar choice scarf variants) and is an easy 1hk0 (hydro pump is anyway)

Also, if you want, starmie isn't as bulky but can still take on some fighting pokes with psychic. I would suggest giving HP ice to thudurus instead of psychic as it hits grounds better (they're more likely to switch in for a stone edge) and give psychic to Starmie for STAB.

Lastly, a very good idea to have absorb bulb on Starmie. It's a shame it only gets one use though. You also don't have a nature for it, I would run timid if I were you, because you should be able to grab the absorb bulb boost and +1sp att/timid can outspeed tonnes and 1hk0 back. again watch out for priority, Starmie does resist most but doesn't have much bulk to stay alive
Overall a good team that just needs a few simple adjustments to cover some major holes. 7.5/10

 

[Gliscor75]

Actually I've changed my mind and now I agree with the others about SR, put it on Swampert for the reasons listed above

 

[Captain Dragan]

Thundurus:
I guess that speed investment in Thundurus is to beat other thundurus/tornadus/erufuun, but that indeed seems occasional, so just put that investment in another stat, like hp, i guess.. definitily change the nature to Modest on him, and maybe keep the evs in speed, as he will always be frail. For the item, put something like Life Orb on him, as it's always good to have an increase in power.

Swampert/Heatran issue: put the SR on Swampert, like others above me suggested as he can set it up and Roar for some immediate damage. Put Toxic on Heatran instead, and give him a choice scarf too.

Starmie: I know what you mean with it's frailty; it's very, very annoying to switch in, trying to spin SR away, and be OHKO'd instead. I suggest you pick Tentacruel as a different Rapid Spinner: it still covers the water weakness and removes entry hazards and also maybe serve as a special wall.
I'd suggest a set like this:

Hide

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
Evs + Nature: 252 Hp/252 Spd/4 Sp.Def ; Timid
-Rapid Spin
-Scald
-Hex/Giga Drain
-Toxic Spikes/Barrier(?)

Dragonite and Scizor look just fine to me.

I hope i helped, Cap'n

 

[rylau00]

Hey guys thanks so much for your help with the Stealth Rock predicament. I decided to run Toxic on Heatran instead of Stealth Rock, and place a Scarf on it. I don't use Hidden Power ever because I don't modify IVs, do RNGs or even spend much time IV breeding.

Also, Captain Dragan, I'm considering your rapid spin replacement suggestion, but it may take me some time to actually find/make a Tentacruel to those specifications (I don't sav or mod or anything)

I changed the nature of Thundurus to Modest, but decided to keep EVs in Speed. Astark, my Thundurus' item is the Wise Glasses (which boost Sp. Atk by 10% overall, like a Specs without restrictions or Life Orb without recoil).

Thanks a lot guys for your advice, if I'm missing anything else let me know.

 

[Charizard92]

Hey guys thanks so much for your help with the Stealth Rock predicament. I decided to run Toxic on Heatran instead of Stealth Rock, and place a Scarf on it. I don't use Hidden Power ever because I don't modify IVs, do RNGs or even spend much time IV breeding.

Also, Captain Dragan, I'm considering your rapid spin replacement suggestion, but it may take me some time to actually find/make a Tentacruel to those specifications (I don't sav or mod or anything)

I changed the nature of Thundurus to Modest, but decided to keep EVs in Speed. Astark, my Thundurus' item is the Wise Glasses (which boost Sp. Atk by 10% overall, like a Specs without restrictions or Life Orb without recoil).

Thanks a lot guys for your advice, if I'm missing anything else let me know.

That's a good suggestion for a spinner.
It's pretty easy to find those HP's, especially HP grass on Heatran. Running a stall move on a choice set isn't normal unless you run trick, to screw them up more. Just my opinion. Just as a hint, heatran works good as a stall poke too. It's got a decent movepool for it aswell, though most are walled by opposing air balloon heatran. Here's a set I would suggest:

Hide

Heatran @ Leftovers
calm nature (- atk + spdef)
252 hp, 176 def, 80 sp def (this is just the EV spread and nature that gives 2 more sp def than def, which helps with porygon, something I always watch out for so it doesn't get the sp att boost. Feel free to use any bulky spread really depending on what you feel your team needs)
-substitute
-Torment
-Toxic/Taunt (if you can get another toxic user, or toxic spikes, try to use that)
-Magma Storm (Has worse accuracy than fire blast, but traps the opponent, forcing them to use a worse move every two turns while doing damage)

Offensive Heatran is way better, this Heatran should be reserved for more stall orrientated teams where other pokes can status. The goal here is to come in on something that doesn't threaten it, say a choiced fire attack. Substitute, then when your opponent attacks and possibly breaks the substitute, use torment to force them into a different move. Then magma storm to trap them if they don't switch. Restore your sub whenever you think they will break it. THis is also highly situational, and workse best when your opponent has two attacking moves and two set up moves that can be taunted. I just had Deja Vu

and it's hardly life orb/specs without damage/restrictions respectively because you're only boosting it by 10%. It's more like having a +ve nature without a -ve side.