First VGC doubles rain team

jojo9800

Hi all! I'm new to the smogon community, and new to competitive pokemon battling! When looking around to develop a team, something about a rain team really made me want to make one. Without further ado this is my team! Excuse any spelling errors, this is done from my phone.

Politoed @Wacan berry
Modest
252 HP 252 SpAtk
Surf
Hydro pump
Protect
Ice beam

I wanted a more offensive politoed so I didn't have to fully rely on ludicolo. Pretty standard I'd say. Protect for threats that ludicolo can take out, ice beam for grass types/dragons. Hydro pump for hard hitting and surf incase I predict a sash or ludicolo won't KO.

Ludicolo@focus sash
Modest
252 SpAtk 252 speed 4HP
Surf
Hydro pump
Giga drain
Fake out

Ludicolo. What a boss. He serves as one of my main attackers, and usually leads along with Politoed. He and politoed work well together, no complaints.

Cresselia @ Chesto Berry
Calm
252 HP 252 spdef
T-wave
Psychic
Rest
Light screen

Boy do I hate Cressy. Only reason I added her is because she's pretty much essential in the VGC metagame.... Looking to replace her or opinions on her? Not entirely sure how I feel about this pokemon because I feel like it goes more for a staller set. When I've tested her, she's a Great Wall but does really nothing to benefit my team.

Heracross@ toxic orb
Adamant
4 HP 252 Atk 252 speed
Megahorn
Close combat
Rock slide
Protect

Heracross is mostly my cresselia/t-tar counter. Regardless he's an awesome pokemon and a hard hitter. Tested him in some free matches today, he works well. I kind of hoped for someone with more survivability, but he serves his purpose well enough. He seems to fit in fine.

Kingdra@life orb
Modest
252 SpAtk 252 speed 4 HP
Hydro pump
Draco meteor
Dragon pulse
Protect

I love kingdra. Great pokemon. Standard set to take out dragons and hit hard. Works well thanks to rain. Only complaint is he's a little frail, but usually I can get 1 or 2 KO's in before he bites the dust.

My last menber is currently being cycled around. I originally had a thundurus, but replaced him with Rotom-W because he's so frail. Not convinced about Rotom either. Opinions would be much appreciated.

I have tested this team and havnt really had a ton of success. I've done a total of 12 online battles with VGC 12 rules, won 5 and lost 7. My main problem was cresselia, ttar and hitmontop. I havnt tried heracross as a counter yet, but I hope he works out! My strategy was usually lead with politoed and ludicolo, then have kingdra and thundurus in the party. Those matches went one of two ways; Worked awesomely or failed miserably.

When I encountered a trick room team I usually knew i was screwed. I also had trouble keeping control of weather when Ttar came into play. So to sum up main threats; Cressy, hitmontop, ttar, and occasionally gastrodon (if hitmontop KOs ludi.

Feel free to take initiative and switch around members of my team! To be honest, im not even sure if weather teams are still effective in this competitive metagame. I'd love opinion from players more experienced than myself (so everyone). Thanks!
 
Welcome, jojo, to the smogon comunity! I myself am rather new, and this is an interesting team. For your last slot I will suggest Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, as I myself have had experience with it and it workes wonders in rain teams. It will give you a much needed electric and a ground immunity, which is always helpful, and adds another sweeper to your team. heres the set I recommend:

Thundurus-T @Life Orb
Nature: Timid
EV's: 4 hp/252 spa/252 spe
-Nasty Plot
-Thunderbolt/Thunder
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power Ice

Good luck with your team and once again, welcome to the smogon community!
 
Jarc said:
For your last slot I will suggest Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, as I myself have had experience with it and it workes wonders in rain teams.
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Was this for doubles or singles? I've never seen a NP Thundurus work effectively in doubles, and not running Protect leaves it even more vulnerable to a bad matchup.

To the OP: your descriptions are all a little lacking. In particular, you should try to explain how all your Pokémon interact with their teammates, and why you chose that Pokémon over other options. After all, if you can't come up with a good reason for using a particular Pokémon, then why use it?

Additionally, for Cresselia, did you mean to have her holding a Chesto Berry? If not, then Rest is a terrible idea.
 
voodoo pimp said:
Was this for doubles or singles? I've never seen a NP Thundurus work effectively in doubles, and not running Protect leaves it even more vulnerable to a bad matchup.

To the OP: your descriptions are all a little lacking. In particular, you should try to explain how all your Pokémon interact with their teammates, and why you chose that Pokémon over other options. After all, if you can't come up with a good reason for using a particular Pokémon, then why use it?

Additionally, for Cresselia, did you mean to have her holding a Chesto Berry? If not, then Rest is a terrible idea.
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Yes, my bad. I was on my phone and tried to remember the sleep status removing berry, thought it was sitrus :P.

Any suggestions other than NP Thundurus-T if that one doesnt work well?

I tried to elaborate on some of them. I talked about the way they interact as well as I could in the conclusion. I cant really say much other than that, I havnt battled too much. However I did realize in the course of 12 battles that the team needed ALOT of work.

Are weather teams are still effective in the VGC metagame? I saw alot of weather counters rearing their heads (Like T-Tar) being used, and not so many weather teams especially when looking into the higher up tournaments.
 
Weather teams can work well, but if your team is as highly dependent on it as yours is, you have to be ready to deal with the counters to it. In this case, you mostly have to watch out for two things: other weather starters, and Trick Room. The best way to deal with other weather is to give Rain Dance to one or two of your other Pokémon - this eases up the pressure on keeping Politoed alive, and also may cause your opponent to play their own starter more aggressively once they think they have the upper hand. Trick Room is going to be trickier to deal with, and once it goes up pretty much your whole team except Cresselia and Politoed is going to be in trouble. You have a few options here - a strong Ghost- or Dark-type can KO most TR users, though Cresselia's going to be tough to bring down (Heracross's Guts-boosted Megahorn can do it, but that won't help you on the first turn), Imprison can shut down most leads that can't easily KO you (Chandelure might actually be a good option here, since its Fire STAB gives you an alternative to Heracross for breaking opposing Ferrothorn), Taunt users can work but fall to Fake Out or Mental Herb, and finally you can have a TR user of your own to reverse the effect.

Additionally, your Swift Swimmers could probably do with a little more bulk. In the rain, they're only likely to have competition in their speed tier from other rain teams, so moving some of the Speed EVs into HP would probably be more useful. I'd suggest enough to hit 101 Speed unboosted, which allows you to outspeed every unboosted Pokémon in the rain aside from the very rare Electrode/Accelgor/Ninjask.
 
Howdy. If you're new, you should definately take a look at some of the tournament reports people have posted in the vgc section to get an idea of what's in a successful team. Still, here are a few general notes:

  • Thanks to Fake Out partially protecting Ludicolo and friendly Surfs, Focus Sash has very little use on Ludicolo. I would instead recommend switching to a Life Orb for consistant, hard hitting attacks or an Absorb Bulb to boost your SpAtk from friendly Surfs.
  • Thunder Wave is not very useful on Cresselia considering many of your attackers are zipping by thanks to rain. Consider changing Thunder Wave to Trick Room to reverse enemy Trick Room should it activate.
  • Cresselia is hardly mandatory on a VGC team, it's just really good. Don't feel like you're forced to use anything in this rule set; you're not.
  • That said, you definitely should have a plan to hit Cresselia for very strong neutral or Super Effective Damage. You have Heracross fulfilling this role, but...
  • Heracross does not synergize very well with the rest of your team. You already have two Pokemon with lackluster defense stats and Heracross compounds your team's overall fragility. It also does not benefit from rain very much beyond the loss of a fire weakness.
  • All of your Pokemon take Neutral damage or worse from Electric attacks. This means Discharge users are a major problem.
  • I would not recommend that Thundurus set. I think Jarc was confused and thought this was a singles team.

Now to get onto the big changes. To fill in your 5th slot, I would recommend a Gastrodon to partially patch up your Electric weakness.

423.png

Gastrodon @ Ground Gem
Storm Drain
Quiet
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 Def
-Muddy Water
-Earth Power
-Protect
-Recover

Gastrodon has that fantastic Electric immunity and powers up with every Surf you fire off. It doesn't work outstandingly well with Ludicolo unless you want to fit in Surf over Ice Beam (can't really recommend that), but it works very well alongside Politoed and Kingdra.

And in replace of Heracross, try out a Scizor instead.

212.png

Scizor @ Steel Gem
Technician
Adamant
196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Speed
-Bullet Punch
-Bug Bite
-Superpower
-Protect

Scizor does a fantastic job at dealing with Cresselia and Tyranitar just like Heracross. However, unlike Heracross, Scizor has the defensive typing and just enough behind its defenses to live a few hits. It's lone weakness, Fire, also isn't as much a problem under rain which is helpful. Your team also lacks a Steel-type to tank Draco Meteors which Scizor does a decent job at. The moveset should be self explanatory outside of Superpower. You should rarely end up using it; it's just very helpful versus the dreaded Ferrothorn.

Hoped my advice helped.
 
Thank you for the Gastrodon/ Scizor combo! Scizor is really synergizing well with rest of the team! I still feel like Rotom-W is my weakest link. Any suggestions for a powerful electric type that would benefit from the rain? I was thinking Zapdos since I needed a flying type to deal with pesky fighting types.
 
jojo9800 said:
Thank you for the Gastrodon/ Scizor combo! Scizor is really synergizing well with rest of the team! I still feel like Rotom-W is my weakest link. Any suggestions for a powerful electric type that would benefit from the rain? I was thinking Zapdos since I needed a flying type to deal with pesky fighting types.
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As suggested above, Thundurus-T will work greatly for your team.

I would recommend a Choice Scarf set to possibly patch up it's speed.

Thundurus-T (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot / Flash Cannon
- Focus Blast / Psychic

Thundurus-T is an absolute special attacking monster. It has many options depending on what coverage you want.
 
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