ORAS UU Flip and Smack: 40-2

I made this team months ago when I started playing showdown tourneys. I wanted to make a solid competitive team since most teams I make are loosely thrown together when I want to try out a particular mon; I rely on my skill to win most games rather than taking the time to actually build a competent team. In the 3 tourneys I've entered it in, this team made it to the finals once and won the whole tourney the next 2 times. I've also played 26 games on the ladder and have only lost once, but everyone knows that the UU ladder is not that challenging anyway if you're a good player.

Teambuilding Process:
I cannot remember exactly how I made this team step by step, but it started with the idea of pairing Choice Band Heracross' wall-breaking power with Mega Ampharos and Crobat, who can Volt Switch and U-Turn on their common switchins (Blissey, Umbreon, Snorlax, Rocks and Steels etc.) that Heracross destroys.
heracross.gif
ampharos-mega.gif
crobat-3.gif



From here I thought of what gives this core trouble. I knew that Ghosts like Chandelure would be a pain, as would top tier mons like Mence, Hydreigon and the Nidos. I also needed Rocks at this point. To trap problematic ghosts and set up rocks, Krookodile was added.


krookodile.gif



Vaporeon was added next due to its ability to counter some similar mons that Amphy does (which eases the pressure on Amphy since it gets worn down quick switching into every offensive fire and water type). Vaporeon also has good synergy with Heracross due to its ability to pass it wishes that come close to fully healing it when mons like Roserade and Shaymin switch in on Vaporeon. I added Empoleon last because I still saw a weakness to dragons. Steels offer great resistances and utility in UU because they can pivot on draco meteors and returns from mons like Hydreigon and Snorlax.
vaporeon-4.gif
empoleon.gif



Onto the individual sets...


crobat.png
@ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

More than often I lead with this mon unless I see a Mega Aero on the other team, in which case I'll usually lead with Amphy. I've never been a fan of running a more defensive bat. You really should only be switching in on grass, fighting and ground attacks, all of which don't phase Crobat at all. It's best to slam things hard with Brave Bird when you can and U-Turn out when you are not in a favorable matchup. I don't find myself using Defog every match because only Crobat is weak to SR in the first place, and usually when I get a free turn it is best to U-Turn and annihilate something with Heracross. However, it has come in handy against sticky web teams, since Krook cannot trap things like Chandelure unless Krook is at full health when it has -1 speed. 184 Speed EVs outpaces Mega Pidgeot and the remaining EVs were dumped into HP.

One of the few mons this team has trouble defeating is Florges, so Cross Poison can be used over Defog if you feel the need to do so. However, Empoleon can Toxic Florges/Roar out Calm Mind variants, which helps wear it down to put it into 2HKO range from Hera's Close Combat. Overall, though, Defog is superior the majority of the time.


ampharos-mega.png
@ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse

Ampharos excels at luring in mons that Heracross easily takes out, such as Registeel, Zong, Cress, Lax, Blissey etc. Due to its unique typing and strong SpA even without any investment, Amphy can switch in, deal some damage, and grab some momentum pretty easily. The EVs allow for maximum physical bulk to better take on some of the top threats in UU. Adamant Mega Beedrill only 3HKOs with Drill Run/Poison Jab, and even with SR on my side of the field, the Bee only has an 18% chance to 2HKO. If the Bee is Jolly, it cannot ever 2HKO after rocks! Jolly Scarf Cross only deals 37% on average with Close Combat, and Jolly Life Orb Mamoswine only KOs 25% of the time after Rocks with EQ, while you take it out first if you catch it on the switch with Dragon Pulse, which deals 73% on average.

Another cool thing about Ampharos is that it is not difficult to switch it in when it is still in its base form due to the electric attacks that Vaporeon and Empoleon bait out, along with the flying attacks that Heracross attracts.


heracross.png
@ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

One of the most powerful attackers in UU due to its incredibly strong STABs and great attack stat, Heracross eats many UU teams alive. What's fun about Heracross is how most teams only have a Crobat or Mence to "counter" it. Stealth Rock paired with a well-timed Stone Edge makes quick work of these mons, leaving Heracross to spam Close Combat all day long. If you know you are going up against a smart opponent, you can assume that they likely wont switch in their flying mon right away, especially if rocks are up, and you can usually get an easy early game kill on their own Empoleon or whatever anticipating a Stone Edge. Even if you mispredict and launch a Close Combat right into a Moltres, or a Megahorn into a Mega Pidgeot, by team handles these sorts of mons quite well. Amphy can steal the momentum right back by switching into a Mega Pidgeot's Hurricane or Moltres' Fire Blast/Hurricane and Volt Switching out.

I enjoy using Jolly Cross to land hits on Jolly Mamoswine and Gatr before they maim you first, as well as other less common mons like Adamant Haxorus. You can use Adamant if you wish, but I've always appreciated the extra speed over a little more firepower. Cross 2HKOs basically everything after Rocks and using Adamant isn't going to help you beat Florges or Weezing anyway.


vaporeon.png
@ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 204 HP / 248 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Roar
- Wish
- Protect

Bold > Calm since I get raped by Krook and other grounds if I focus too much on SpD. Vaporeon is a good check to the Nidos with this current spread anyway. Vaporeon forms a fantastic core with Empoleon that puts a stop to a wide range of threats. If anyone has not tried a double water defensive core in UU, by the way, give it a shot. Since each bulky water has its own problems, utilizing them by themselves leaves you open to quite a few threats. If only using Empoleon, it's tough for this team to switch in on Rhyperior and Mamoswine. If you only use Vaporeon, it's challenging to work around Nidos paired with Gatr etc. I'm using Roar so I don't get stampeded by Sub Gatr, but it's also good for phasing out Suicune and being a general nuisance. Roaring out Mega Snow is also fun when you have Rocks up.


empoleon.png
@ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Scald
- Roar/Grass Knot

I cannot remember if I took these EVs from somewhere or if I made them myself. Since this team has slight Mence problems, the 88 Def EVs allow Empoleon to never be OHKOd by Jolly Life Orb Mence's EQ after Stealth Rock. Adamant Mence does have 56% chance to OHKO after Rocks, however. Grass Knot and Roar are interchangeable since Vaporeon also has Roar. Grass Knot is cool for catching Mega Pert off guard when trying to set up since this team has no other grass attacks, but Roar racks up the hazard damage and phases out problematic set up mons like Belly Drum Slurpuff since Scald cannot KO after Rocks + BD + Sitrus. Empoleon's usefulness is strange, as sometimes it will counter half the enemy team, but other times it really doesn't serve much purpose. Empoleon in general is great for countering/checking lots of odd balls that some people build teams around like Yanmega, Rain Dance Kingdra, and P-Z, and therefore its usefulness cannot be understated.


krookodile.png
@ Black Glasses
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

Krook has one of the highest utility values in UU in my opinion. It is naturally bulky with Intimidate, which makes it a great pivot. It is also an excellent lure with Blackglasses, which greatly helps when dealing with heavy stall. If the other team has a solid Hera counter and a Blissey, bluffing a choice item on Krook by using Pursuit when their Blissey uses Protect allows you to blast it with Knock Off the next turn. This greatly reduces the pressure on keeping Heracross alive, and it also makes wearing these kinds of teams down much simpler. Max Speed is a must in order to ease this team's issues with SD Lucario. +1 E-Speed maxes out at 71% while EQ easily OHKOs in return. If you wish, you can slap Stone Edge on over Rocks to help Krook deal with Mega Aero and Mence easier and use Rocks on Empoleon, but Empoleon has bad 4MSS. It's a give and take so use what you wish.


Threatlist:

Lucario - If it sets up and Krook is dead, quite a few things are going down. Luckily, it cannot actually set up on anything except Heracross locked into something that is not Close Combat without taking a huge chunk of damage or being Roared out. Of course, if you see a Lucario on the enemy team, don't go throwing around Knock Offs and Megahorns until it is severely weakened. Ampharos can eat a +1 Close Combat after Rocks if Krook is too worn down to take an E-Speed, and Crobat can take a +1 E-Speed if it is healthy, but definitely play carefully around this thing.

Machamp - Comes in on Empoleon pretty easily barring a Scald Burn (even so I've encountered Guts variants with Close Combat) and I have to predict perfectly or lose a mon.

Defensive Florges - Hard to break, but it cannot do much to Empoleon. Luckily it cannot have Aromatherapy, Moonblast, Calm Mind, Toxic, Psychic, Wish and Protect. Find out what moves it has and exploit it with Empoleon's Toxic + Crobat's U-Turn.

Importable:
Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Scald
- Roar

Crobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse

Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 204 HP / 248 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Roar
- Wish
- Protect

Krookodile @ Black Glasses
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
 
Hey bro, cool team you have here. I see you having problems with stall, since from what I can see, you sort of auto-lose due to having no way to poke wholes in Stall apart from Pursuit Trapping. I also notice you have no way of stopping a Life Orb Hydeigon and Banded Krookodile from running through your team. I noticed you are running an Empoleon without Stealth Rock or Defog, which is weird to see as that is what its usually there to do. I would also like to point out that you have 0 chance from beating a Dragon Dance Salamence, especially with a Lum Berry. From what i see to be problems, I believe Whimsicott > Empoleon would be great( I am also now seeing Rain Dance Swampert running through your team as well so this is another reason why is would be nice ;P). I am suggesting a defensive spread like this:

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Encore
- U-turn
- Leech Seed / Stun Spore

Now that I gave you a solid defensive pivot, I believe running an offensive Ampharos would help your team out well. I would think 3 stabs + Heal Bell would be great, because of what i plan to be my next suggestion. I did not really see your reasoning to why Defensive Ampharos was helping your team. Your reasoning with the pokemon it helped with did not make too much sense like Mamoswine(You would not stay in on a Mamoswine with Amph. And your switch to a Scarf heracross and Beedrill would be Crobat).

Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Heal Bell

My final suggestion is CM Roar Suicune > Vaporeon. I believe the combo of a stronger Volt Switch from Ampharos+ Pursuit Trapping + CM roar cune will give you a way better chance in beating stall teams. This also provides a setup sweeper/ Win condition that you lacked and I think it will be crucial to have. I chose Heal Bell on Ampharos, over something like Focus Blast since you can heal off status for Suicune and the rest of your team.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Substitute / Rest (Rest is safer, but CM Sub Roar can demolish Stall. Its up to you and your preference.)
- Roar

Good Luck with this team, hope you try out my changes!
 
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Solid balanced team, me likey. Nothing to really pick on but here's a few minor optimizations that could up the flexibility of the team.

Personally I'm feeling a slightly more offensive empoleon spread to go with that moveset but that's entirely up to you.

Give mamphy and empoleon 0 atk iv's

Ampharos needs onyl 60 speed to outspeed -speed nature swamperts even after it mega ev's. its a worthwhile invest

Taunt on a bulkier crobat, with defog moved to empoleon feels much cleaner to me, your team seems to be more about offensive play to shut down threats than it is about reactive play. With that in mind I would also suggest Jellicent over vaporeon, the loss of wish utility sucks but the gain in utility vs lucario, machamp, and florges could make up for that.

Jellicent @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball/Scald
- Taunt
- Recover

Outspeed 0 speed florges, tank dark coverage from luke and no gaurd machamp all day long and cripple both of those, still shuts off 0 speed crocunes and takes a dump on stallier threats. Seems like a mon you'd like. you can up the speed more as needed as long as you keep enough def to check Maero. You hate special luke a little more but a slightly fatter crobat + krook existing can help with that since special luke has a hard case of 4mss.

If you decide to give this thingy a try I would consider swapping to lefties SD heracross to give offensive teams less free turns and to open up stallier teams removing the need for wishpass to an extent.

TL:DR: Outside of optimizing Iv's and taunt bat > defog bat, these changes grant a pretty minor boost to utility and allow for a more offensive playstyle (which you seem to enjoy). However for more passive play the team is just fine as is.

Less is more, a bulkier crobat fixes everything you wanted whimsi for and its not any better at checking LO hydrie than empoleon is. Heal bell on mamphy only helps krook who rarely eats wilo wisps and takes scalds so badly that heal bell is irrelevant.

Taunt on the mons that pivot into krook and a slightly bulkier crobat that gives up less free turns fixes this far more elegantly. however this threatlist is so small and manageable that even those changes are entirely up to the players preference.

For the stall matchup SD hera stallbreaker bat and a possible stallbreaker jelly gives the team more than enough tools to crush most stall when added to the suprise offensive empoleon and krooks pursuit support.
 
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Hey Camino! Cool team with a pretty nice record. I do see a few flaws with the team though, so I'd like to suggest a few changes to help improve your team's performance overall:
  • You seem to be really weak, as you said, to physical fighting types including Lucario and Machamp. The first step I think you should take in removing this weakness is to change Krookodile -> Salamence, as you retain the ability to intimidate your opponent while packing a handy fighting resist which your team appreciates. I would use a moveset of Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Iron Tail / Roost with an EV spread of 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Naive Nature. The item I would recommend is Life Orb. This maximizes Salamence's damage output and allows it to lure in and kill common switchins including Doublade, Forretress, and Florges.
  • Since you no longer have a Stealth Rocker, I would suggest changing your Empoleon moveset to Stealth Rock / Scald / Ice Beam / Defog. I'll get into why I'm suggesting defog later, but the other moves are self explanatory and are pretty standard for Empoleon to run.
  • You currently do not have any stallbreakers / Taunt users on your team, so I'd like to suggest changing up your Crobat moveset a bit. Since we added Defog on Empoleon, you no longer need it on Crobat, so I would suggest changing Defog -> Taunt. Crobat is one of the fastest users of taunt barring prankster, making it an excellent user of it. Just a nitpick, but I would also change your EV spread to 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe with a Jolly Nature, as this allows you to outspeed the occasional Noivern.
  • I second Christo The Gr8's suggestion to change your Ampharos to an offensive set. Physdef Ampharos doesn't really perform well at the moment, and it also loses to Suicune, which your team otherwise cannot really damage.
  • I also second Christo The Gr8's suggestion to change Vaporeon -> CM Suicune. However, I would run the standard Calm Mind / Scald / Rest / Sleep Talk set, as your team seems to rely on Suicune to check a lot of things, from Fire Spam to Mamoswine, so I believe having Sleep Talk is beneficial so you do not give your opponent free turns every time you need to heal up. I would run a standard EV spread of 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe with a Bold Nature.
Other than that, I believe you have a pretty solid team. Hope you try out the suggestions made in the thread! Good luck :]
Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Defog

Crobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Heal Bell

Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Iron Tail
- Defog
 
(just ignore christo the replace half all the teams guy, like he ignored the "common rating mistakes" thread that stickied up top)

Edit: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/common-rating-mistakes-you-should-avoid.3477398/
Your opinion of me or my rates does not matter to me, although I do not like how you are just misleading Camino and any others. I do not infringe on the RMT rules and you are implying my team suggestions are bad, which is truly misleading. If you want to attack me and my posts in this thread, feel free to PM IronBullet93 or any other RMT head to see if I am infinging on any rules. Posting here is just rude and childish to be honest. Sorry Camino for posting this here, I just thought it was necessary.
 
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Hey man, cool looking team you have here. As Christo said, I see this team having a huge problem with stall, as well as some huge threats in the tier, such as Rain Dance Pert (Although Vaporeon can survive 2 EQ's from it), Mamoswine, or the Nidos. A thing that also confused me about this team was that Empoleon was on here with no Rocks or Defog, which is extremely rare. But anyway, rating time!

  • First off, I would change the Crobat's EV spread. In the current meta Crobat's have to run 212+ Speed to outspeed +1 Adamant Gatr. It's minor but it could be crucial in many situations. The EV spread (just from messing around with yours) would be 72 HP / 220 Atk / 216 Spe and a Jolly Nature. The extra 4 speed helps creep other Crobats, which could be crucial in some games. Also I'd recommend Taunt > U-turn, as it helps deal with Stall teams fairly well.
  • Another minor nitpick I have is having Baton Pass > Roar on Vaporeon with 28 IVs in Speed. I feel like WishPassing on this team would be EXTREMELY helpful, as it helps Heracross keep switching into scalds and beating Suicune as well as healing Ampharos without having it to rest, which is unreliable.
  • I also second Christo The Gr8's and Vapo's suggestion about using offensive Ampharos set (especially if you change Vaporeon to WishPass), it helps deal with Suicune, which could wall this team with ease bar Heracross.
  • Since you are using a more defensive Vaporeon spread, I'd like to suggest a special wall over Empoleon. I'd like to recommend Curselax > Empoleon. Again, Empoleon was a weird set and didn't provide much support anyway as it didn't have Defog or Stealth Rocks, so Curselax gives you a solid answer to things like Hydreigon or the Nido's. It also helps out with Florges, which is on your threatlist.
    snorlax.gif

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Curse
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Body Slam
Other than those small changes, I still feel it's a pretty solid team and I hope you consider my recommendations. Good luck with your team man!
 
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jjoshcja please avoid insulting other people. Christo has worked hard on his rate and it's extremely rude to simply discard it and attempt to influence Camino against it. Your attack has no basis either; I don't see how he's ignored any rules here. Sure he's replaced two Pokemon, but he's provided solid reasoning for doing so. If you don't agree with what he's posted, that's fine. It's perfectly okay to respectfully disagree with his changes and state why you don't think they're ideal. Just don't be a dick. Thanks.
 
Man I wish I had the replay, but one of the UU tourneys I won was against heavy stall, although I DID have to make a couple good plays in a row to take out Chansey. I can see how defensive Ampharos may not make much sense, especially with wish support. I'll give that offensive set a try; it looks like it would be a good fit, so thanks Christo for that suggestion!

I guess I never really toyed with Defog on Emp because I had it on Crobat, but I'll also test that on Emp with Taunt on Crobat. I'll bump up the speed too to outspeed +1 Gatr.

I liked Roar on Vaporeon because it allows Vape to not be Mence set up bait, and since it has more merit than Ice Beam imo, but I'll give Baton Pass a try.

I'll also test some different mons for Empoleon if I don't like moving Defogging duties to it. I just liked Emp without SR/Defog because it can come in on something it walls because of its 10 or whatever resistances and have enough moveslots to surprise the other team with since SR/Defog is so obvious.

Thanks for the rates, though, I'll make some changes and see how it goes!
 
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