Espathra is so fucking stupid I hate it so much. It's so bulky especially behind screens and its lack of power is quickly remedied as it just accrues a ton of boosts. I’ll remind everyone there are no spdef unaware mons to Tera dark with. It just wins any boost-off and flips any matchups it would lose with tera fairy. It's slower to get going than in standard but much harder to stop, and necessitates some pretty specific and harsh countermeasures, be it an aggressive trick scarf, tera steel on a mon that can at least toxic it or roar it or something (plenty of good dragon tail users here that just lose to tera fairy!), cause nothing offensive is beating it down once it gets a few boosts going. Also, it can pick its own counters with its Tera type. Tera fighting easily beats kingambit and destroys the otherwise counter in spdef chien-pao and also foils mons that tera steel expecting the tera fairy set. I could easily see it running something like tera dark to provide safety against scarf pecharunt, or tera steel or just sub to beat toxic lol. It feels like the only safe answers to it are a very bulky roar mon like zoroark-h (can often simply delay the problem) or switching directly into your choiced mon and clicking trick (there are not many viable users of this). Ohhh I also want to tell you about weakness policy too lol, just devastating if you go for a weak knock off or u-turn against it at the wrong time. This bird is at the top of my shitlist and contributes to my occasional non-enjoyment of this meta
There are a lot of Meteor Beam abusers that can be pretty hard to handle or overwhelming to would-be checks, Rhyperior is the best one in my eyes cause it has the best coverage and speed tier. There are some spdef mons you see that can check it but pretty much all of them need to be pretty healthy and can be potentially foiled by an aggressive tera or some prior chip damage. It also has such an awesome movepool and natural coverage with earth power and ice beam that it can easily run pretty much anything it likes in the last slot. I'm trying to put people on Tera Blast Fairy, this gives you extra juice to break through pretty much every spdef mon and meteor beam resist like breloom, roaring moon, great tusk, iron valiant, dragapult. You could even potentially cut out Ice Beam if you run this and get another free move slot for whatever specific purpose you want Rhyperior to fill. Maybe Sub to outplay those that try and dance around Meteor Beam? Rhyperior is a good offensive SR setter too, it beats all the common hazard removal. Some more weird options like Tera Grass Blast are definitely possible, Rhyperior can do it all. I knew that when I saw Mienshao on the banlist that Rhyperior would be potentially overwhelming, and it definitely seems to be that way. Even against offensive teams where Rhyperior is more manageable it is still usually getting a kill before going down.
This does the same thing as it does in standard so yeah it is very strong especially in some matchups. It has a more exploitably low Defense but overall Flipped is a bulkier meta so there are still plenty of weaker attacks going around it can sponge to get a boost to rage fist. It has other viable sets too, I've used scarf as an offensive check to meteor beam and revenge killer, AV seems potentially usable too to sponge a meteor beam while spinblocking avalugg-h and coalossal. But if it is banworthy it is definitely on the basis of the Bulk Up set, it just punishes weak pivoting so much and can actually outplay status with taunt or rest. The main wrench in this plan is hisui zoroark which is naturally immune to both of its STABs so any team with that mon is pretty insulated against annihilape It's a silver bullet for sure, but one that is pretty slow and passive with an exploitable lack of good recovery, so some teams with annihilape can perhaps even overcome that.
This is the second best Meteor Beam spammer, in my opinion. As you might have noticed a lot of the mons I mentioned as defensive rhyperior checks and meteor beam switch-ins earlier are weak to Ice, so naturally this thing has way better matchups against all of those. The main weakness of this mon is that it doesn't really have any good coverage so it's pretty reliant on Ice alone after it pops the Meteor Beam, but its so powerful that that is often all it needs, especially against offense or balance which it can just shred with the raw power and Sturdy to withstand a hit. Much like Rhyperior it can pretty much always get a kill against an offensive team before being revenge killed, but Sturdy can make that even harder in Avalugg-H's case. Can I just add that there aren't that many good specially defensive Ice resists in this format? I certainly can't think of any with recovery besides Chien-Pao. The best Ice resists with recovery (gholdengo, iron moth, volcarona) all have exploitably low special defense and are often just destroyed by meteor beam too, or an appropriate tera blast if it comes down to it, so Avalugg-H can beat them down in some games.
These two are allowed on the ladder even though they are listed as banned in the thread. They are pretty similar to each other. Compared to standard play they are really lacking in power and can't make 101 hp subs, but they are still huge balls of stats with access to all the nasty sets Kyurem is known for. Usually you see white kyurem with DD and black kyurem with specs or a specially biased attacker set but it can run DD too if you want access to Fusion Bolt and a bit more surprise factor. As I mentioned before this meta is a bit lacking in solid Ice resists so Specs can definitely put in work against teams lacking some exorbitant special walls, and with such great stats in every department it can work really well against offensive teams, naturally outspeeding a ton of stuff and with insane bulk to stomach hits from revenge killers like scarf pecharunt. It often needs to Tera to get that last little bit of power but it's a worthy Tera for sure. Physical DD sets are certainly good too and add to the surprise factor that Kyurem is known for, even if its a little weak to get started it's again super bulky and fast so against teams where your counterplay to such a set is more offensive in nature it can easily get up another DD and proceed to roll you. The only thing about kyurem is that having two forms that each have their own specialization makes it somehow more predictable lol. Like if you see kyurem-white you know that they are going to be DD cause fusion flare isn't enough of a reason to run specs, and you know they wouldn't be tera electric cause why the hell would you run that when you can just run kyu-b lol. Anyways I really would like to know if these mons are actually banned and allowed in as an oversight or not. I think they're pretty borderline but less so than other stuff and they are kinda fun.
Can switch in on Ice moves, can sit in on Espathra and click Haze, has reliable recovery and great bulk. Can even beat some Meteor Beam mons if you play around it, it seems bad on paper cause it's a defensive Ice type but it actually works in this meta.
AV Mola is a flawed but usable pivot, it naturally outspeeds Rhyperior and can come in on it if healthy enough.
Theoretically this mon has no switch-ins but I have never seen one click Rock Slide on my Talonflame entry, what are we doing exactly?
This guy is super strong, pretty much always needs to be accounted for somehow. Scarf Tera Ghost with Hex to beat down Gliscor?
Sometimes feels broken, sometimes feels like a shitmon.
Ceaseless Edge is still a broken move, even from 65 base attack. Starts to feel a lot better with SD + Black Glasses + Tera Dark.
Lowkey this mon is pretty borderline too, but I feel like I don't see it as often. Its counterplay can overlap with Rhyperior a bit.
It's a bit less applicable than Gholdengo or Dragapult as a bulky Ghost. A faster wisp and a potential Bulky CM set give it a unique sort of role though.
Neutralizing gas is not as needed when there are almost no Regen mons and you can do 90+ to phys def Gholdengo with invested Fire Blast, so you can run Levitate for even more entry opportunities. This mon plays as kind of a slow breaker that can also defog pretty easily, potentially spread poison and enter battle against Gliscor especially without knock off and remove its Spikes.
Oh yeah there is no sleep moves clause in this format, only sleep clause. And Amoonguss has 114 base speed lol. The best set i've found to abuse this is Sub Spore, taking something out of the battle with Spore and then just clicking weak Sludge Bombs to wear whatever it is down that comes in. Hex as last move to touch absorbers like gholdengo and gliscor. Fast Sub with a guaranteed sleep move and backed by regenerator is such a free move to click.
I'm pretty sure Zapdos is viable too, pretty good check to a lot of weird physical attackers.
Hydrapple is definitely a nice balance breaker with NP plus its coverage, and ability to heal LO recoil with Regen and Giga Drain.
I'm sure the old sets may be better but speed-boosting Booster Energy SD was more fun.
It can be pretty solid offensively but Tera-hungry, really reliant on Tera Blast Ice for Gliscor, Brambleghast, others.
This mon is always lame, good job Espeon.
Just an outrageous sun breaker, its stats so high and moves so powerful. It puts sun as an archetype on its back honestly. I feel like this is a mon we should keep an eye on too cause its just really hard to handle when played and supported well.
The last and worst AV Regen mon. It does get Knock Off. Might be the best Gouging Fire check but is otherwise pretty bad.
I tried using urshifu. It's not that good but has some defensive qualities and respectable power with its STABs and SD even off of a terrible attack stat. But a lot of the time I just wished I has SD Samurott-Hisui instead for the team support of Ceaseless Edge.
Don't use for spin specifically it is bad. The point of it is a CB Ice spammer with a higher-power Ice move than Regice (Triple Axel), priority and Levitate to enter battle easier. But with Flame Body Talonflame being common and lacking access to Knock Off or indeed any good coverage at all, it might not be viable this go around.
Scarf Meloetta has 40% flinch Zen Headbutt and great utility moves (Knock, Trick, U-turn) and coverage.
I'm sure this mon is viable too in some way but other Meteor Beam users just have it beat in most ways except raw spatk.
Taunt with Tera Ground might be better for Iron Moth and Dragapult (burns you through sub), but it's nothing against Talonflame and Volcarona. I have had fun with Sub Superpower with Fly though, gives you a lot of effective PP and extra Leftover recovery turns though so it's funny.
Sub Power Herb with Phantom Force, steal their item, click Focus Punch, it's so much fun.
Breloom
Cobalion
Gliscor Pecharunt
Roaring Moon Rhyperior
Ting-Lu Avalugg-Hisui
Deoxys-Defense
Gholdengo
Iron Moth
Iron Treads
Kingambit
Landorus-Therian
Manaphy
Persian-Alola
Primarina
Ribombee
Talonflame
Tyranitar Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Espathra This is number one on our list, and we are currently in the process of voting on it. While its 60 base Sp Atk makes it appear unassuming at first, its bulk and recovery just make it so insanely good at accumulating Calm Minds and Speed Boosts to then sweep with Stored Power and Dazzling Gleam.
Light Clay This item really enables the plethora of bulky setup sweepers. It gives enough turns to the screens that even with careful maneuvering by the opponent, it is easy for the screen setter's fat teammates to start racking up boosts and getting out of control. As such, this is the other element that we are currently in the process of voting on.Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Its moves are as hard to wall as always but now it has good speed, with boosting and recovery to set up. But it can be outsped, is fairly weak to priority, and does have some defensive checks that can manage if they save their health for it, such as Ogerpon-Wellspring and Breloom.Roaring Moon This one is interesting in that it can be just a solid special wall that isn't passive, or it can run a fat Dragon Dance set with recovery that allows it to run away with the game. This second set makes it a concern, though it is always vulnerable on the physical side.Cobalion Unlike the others mentioned so far, Cobalion lacks recovery, but in place of that it has priority in Vacuum Wave, which makes it harder for faster offensive checks like Ting Lu and Rhyperior to stop it after it gets a Calm Mind in, limiting counterplay.Pecharunt While Pecharunt is somewhat frail in this meta, it has insane initial power, and it can be challenging for defensive teams to handle thanks to the Toxic cheese from Malignant Chain. With either Nasty Plot to really blow through things or Scarf to wipe through offense, this can be a bit much at times. However it can easily be outsped without Scarf, and there are defensive Pokemon that can handle it, most notably Iron Treads.
Archaludon This plays similar to standard but with even better all around bulk, with Stamina Body Press making it harder for many would-be specially defensive counters. This allows it to really punish more defensive teams whose chip approach just builds its Stamina. But it does lack recovery and it isn't super hard for faster offensive mons to take it out if they can get in safely.Espeon This fat thing is as annoying as ever. It is very hard to break on the defensive side, is the best Wish passer, annoys with Thunder Wave, and has the capacity to run a slow-building Calm Mind set. However, Calm Mind variants notwithstanding, it is extremely passive, granting opportunities for the right mons to come in and start boosting. These are some others who aren't officially on our watchlist yet (as in, the council hasn't really discussed them) but are clearly good and deserve to be looked at further. Feel free to let us know of any other threats we should consider or if you have strong opinions on something.
We have also heard requests about the possibility of unbanning one of the RegenVest pivots, of which Cyclizar is probably the best candidate, given its slightly less insane special bulk and some flaws in its typing, namely an ice weakness. There is some skepticism on this but we would be interested in community feedback.
These are some more of the aforementioned setup sweepers that can take awhile to get going but are often able because of their huge bulk. They give us further reason to do stuff like vote on Light Clay, but individually we are not really concerned about them so far. I'm mentioning them here more for metagame analysis purposes, lol.Espathra Yes please, easiest ban. It does the same things that make it broken in standard play, but it’s more bulky here and does not need screens to boost and sweep. The only things that stop this guy completely are Toxic Gliscor, Toxic Rest Overqwil, Haze Chien-Pao (needs Steel Tera, although Fighting Tera might still let Espathra win), Toxic Tera’d Breloom and Whimsicott (who still struggles without recovery).Light Clay Another easy ban. This enables all the bulky set up more than anything.Ursaluna-Bloodmoon It’s fine. It’s not that fast, weak to Vaccum Wave and Aqua Jet. Stall and Balance have options for it in Breloom, Gliscor, Roaring Moon, Regigigas, the Ogerpons, and the Lati@s. I find the special Rock types more scary, personally, since they can all take a hit with Sturdy and break or snowball like crazy.Roaring Moon This guy is great, but it is a major Tera hog on most sets, more so than anything else I thought was A+, but it also has more variety than the others.Cobalion I find screens the thing that most pushes CM Cobalion into broken territory. I’d ban that first and then see how it feels. Skeledirge is an easy slot if you want to totally stone wall this thing to death, but CM can still be checked with Breloom and all the Fire type walls who can burn it, chip/kill it, and phaze it. Gliscor beats it with Toxic, if it Tera’s to avoid Earth Power.Pecharunt Scarf is I think it’s fine. Scarf is checked by Gliscor, Ting-Lu, Roaring Moon, Regigigas, Chien-Pao and just general defensive Teras. Confusion is certainly annoying, but not broken.Archaludon Thuds on the amazing Ground types. I’ve never struggled against this thing.Espeon Super-mid, tbh. Wish and Roar are the best tools it’s got, but it’s super passive and easy to take advantage of and turn into set up fodder. It doesn’t really take advantage of Magic Bounce because all the best hazard setters beat it. Body Slam para-fishing is its only move to punish switch ins. Can’t be a bulky wincon because its physical offensive moves are horrible, unless it utilizes Tera Blast Fairy (which lets it be immune to Dragon Tail and have a way to threaten Dark types like Persian). These guys are fine, just annoying. I guess you could ban Heat Rock if you find GFire busted in Sun.Mmmm an AV mon with Regen would be nice for this meta. Its typing loses to Cobalion and all the Ice types. Tera fixes this though. It needs Overheat to actually spin through Dengo. It def strengthens both balance and stall though. Maybe a suspect is in order?Way low on priorities. Lose light Clay first.
and always seem to work as a TR setter core no matter the OM. Mimikyu is slightly more optimized in Flipped with higher attack and HP and lower speed, while Hat runs a physical set, but it’s still just basically Trick Room and Healing Wish at lead. I found Tinkaton to be a massive pain in the butt for Trick Room as an archetype because of Mold Breaker, so rather than give Mimikyu its normal Red Card, I did Ability Shield so at least one setter could set up on it risk free. Curse still gets through Subs though, and softens up walls and grabs momentum. combines Sturdy with Boots for another guaranteed TR set mid game, outside Taunt. Its defenses are minimized so it can more easily reach 1 HP to bonk sp def walls like Regigigas and Wogerpon with Endeavor, clearing any of the special breakers for an easier sweep. This isn’t to underestimate the power of STAB Power Gem and Earth Power, unresisted together outside Breloom and coming off a 150 sp attack. Yeah, Carbink is really solid as an offensive setter. It can also eat Healing Wish to get yet another free Trick Room, if need be. Next is Nasty Plot Tera Fighting Pecharunt, who’s STABs hits the Ghosts immune to Endeavor hard, as well as Breloom and Wogerpon, while Tera Fighting nails Chien-Pao, Regigias, Tyranitar, RMoon, etc. Basically nothing can wall this after a Nasty Plot, except Zoroark. Since I’m not using Red Card to force out Sub users, I went with Throat Spray PsyNoise Deo-D to bypass Subs, and Superpower which hits those pesky Dark types and Special Walls hard. Dark Pulse lets it rip though Zoroark, which walls Nasty Plot Pecharunt and Carbink’s Endeavor. Deo is also another TR setter, giving the team a total of four (or five with Healing Wish). Finally, there’s Specs Pelipper who serves as the team glue defensively, able to tank Steel moves like Gigaton Hammer, bring a handy Ground immunity, and slow pivot in a TR setter with U-Turn. Otherwise, it spams either water STABs to nuke through most anything or Hurricane to hit various Dragons, Breloom, Wogerpon and the all new Zamazenta, the most common sp def mons that can eat its Water STABs.
is a crazy good spin blocker, Knock and burn spreader. is basically immune to hazards naturally and the Spikes machine and anti -set up with Toxic. more anti-set up, and it blanks Leech Seed spammers. handles Defog from Talonflame and Flare Blitz hits hard. and The dragons shuffle stuff around forcing Spikes damage. Latios was itemless to neuter incoming Knocks (and Poltergeist), but then I ran into a team that spammed PsyNoise so I tried Covert Cloak. Tera Steel lets it be as close to Corviknight as this meta has. RMoon has Taunt to pull some stallbreaking, and Tera Water to laugh at Sun teams. GGs! 124 base HP makes it bulky as all hell, and despite being initially weak, max Def and Quiver Dance make it all around unkillable. ChestoRest lets you absorb status and net several QDs before Resting off any damage and potential status before going for the sweep. Stored Power’s threat level escalates insanely quickly, while Draining Kiss heals you continuously while hitting Dark types. A few things that potentially get in Ribombee’s way include Skeledirge, Haze Chien-Pao, Toxic/Seed Breloom, Toxic Gliscor, and Heatran. Primarina stomps all of them, while also revenging stuff with a strong Aqua Jet. Early/mid game annoyer, which whittles down the opponent with Toxic, Leech Seed and potential paralysis on Steels and Espeon. Defensive glue #2, ensuring I don’t get overrun with hazards, spreading burns and pivoting in Pecharunt and Ting-Lu, early / mid game and Rimbobee in the endgame. Stall and balance breaker with Taunt, and generally speedy cleaner.
This guy. He might actually be the best set up sweeper in the meta as his STABs hit all the phys def Fires and Psychics super effectively, and the meta generally lacks good physically defensive hazard resistant Knock absorbers outside Landorus and Lati@s (who need to be itemless, Colbur or Tera’d). Its sp def is obscene, able to tank an Earth Power from Rhyperior from full HP, Lum Berry lets it set up on walls, EQ lets it nail Cobalion. Sand chips stuff for existing. Its moves are all resisted by Breloom, but Breloom is so physically squishy it hardly matters. Gliscor does Gliscor things, but sand helps it wear down stuff faster with Toxic. This guy takes advantage of stuff like Treads and Tusk and spreads paralysis like a champ (great for Goodra breaking), and pivots around. Pain Split lets it get a second wind. Just all around great defensive glue.The last member of my defensive core, I stole this stat spread from JangMoo-Moo. I wanted a Cobalion check in case Ttar got goobed by Vaccuum Wave and Skeledirge never fails to bring value in any mu. It handles subs, handles bulky set up, handles Breloom, it burns things. Hex synergizes well with both Toxic Gliscor and TWave Rotom, as well as its own Will o’. Amazing wincon alongside Ttar. I wanted an offensive spinner able to capitalize on Ttar’s physical breaking, not weak to Aqua Jet or Vaccum Wave. Tentacruel brings these traits, with Shuca letting it shrug off an Earth Power. It can sweep in its own right with Swords Dance and or Rapid Spin’s speed boost. I wanted one more sand immune breaker and Goodra’s it. It’s got all the coverage it needs to punch holes in the opponent, and paralysis makes its mid speed a non-issue. Sap Sipper gives the team a nice Leech Seed switch in.
