Forretress-Florges Core Stall Team (Peaked 1412 in UU ladder)

[Kevun]

Hiya,

Yes, I am aware that no such core exists (surprisingly), but its just so effective I had to coin that. It's like the SkarmBliss of UU. Plus, when you add the Sableye in, this team turns into an annoying, yet effective stall team. Of course, there are probably numerous flaws with this team that needs to be patched up. Any suggestions at all would be greatly appreciated!​

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Volt Switch

Unlike OU, where there are a million and one ways to remove entry hazards, hazard removal in UU is much more predictable and manageable. In my experience, the common Rapid Spinners are Blastoise, Starmie, Donphan, and Forretress, while the common Defog users are Mew, Crobat, and Empoleon. Correct me if I am wrong, but those mons listed above seem to accompass the majority of hazard removers.

With Sableye acting as a spinblocker and taunter, the only common hazard remover to be a threat is Dazzling Gleam Starmie. After layering some hazards down, Sableye easily switches into spinners and defogers.

Furthermore, although he lacks recovery, his immense physical bulk stops nearly all physical attackers in their tracks... well except for Darmanitan.

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SDef
Calm Nature
-Wish
-Protect
-Moonblast
-Aromatherapy

Florges is a great partner to Forretress, patching up his weak special side and providing wish support. Wish is very useful to the team; she can pass it with ease when opponents switch out into physical attackers. Walling the majority of special attackers and curing troublesome status like toxic, Florges is a great asset to the team.

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Careful Nature
-Taunt
-Will-O-Wisp
-Recover
-Foul Play/Knock Off

Contrary to my original belief, Sableye walls a huge portion of the metagame. Even with his thin defenses, priority Recover, priority burn, max special investment, and Taunt allow him to switch into, wall, and cripple many threats.

However, his main role on the team is as a spinblocker. Like stated before, Sableye beats spinblockers like Donphan, Forretress, and Mega Blastoise (though just barely for Blastoise), and can taunt defoggers (although a little prediction is required). By keeping Forretress's hazards safe, residual damage steadily racks up on the opposing team.

One important thing I have not yet decided is Foul Play vs. Knock Off. I've been sticking to Foul Play, but now that I think of it, Knock Off might be better. Knock Off allows Sableye to beat life orb and choiced attackers that otherwise break past Sableye (like Nidoking), as well as provide better utility. Foul Play does win the vast majority of time damage-wise, and usually by quite a bit, but I find that I hardly have any spare turns to use Foul Play, and in the presence of burned physical attackers, Foul Play doesn't do much damage. Suggestions on this will be great!

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/Stealth Rock
-Slack Off
-Whirlwind

Hippowdon's main goal is to use whirlwind to phaze opponents to rack up hazard damage, and he's very good at his job.

I'm wondering if Stealth Rock would be better than Stone Edge, although it would be redundant. Stone Edge can make Hippowdon have a good offensive presence, but then again, he can just phaze things he can't hit.

Originally, I had a specially defensive intimidate Arcanine in place of Hippowdon, to help with fire types that are immune to Will-O-Wisp and destroy Forretress. However, I felt that a phazer would be more useful. So far, he's doing fine, but I haven't played enough matches with him to really reach a definitive conclusion yet.

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold nature
-Calm mind
-Slack Off
-Scald
-Psyshock

**Note: I do know that the image above is Slowpoke, not Slowbro, but there wasn't this style of wallpaper for Slowbro, so... XD**

Slowbro is to check the fire types that the rest of my team has trouble with. Plus, Slowbro is just a great all around tank. After a CM or two, he checks even powerful super-effective special attacks, and hits back hard.

This set is rather standard, and I'm pretty satisfied with it. The 4 speed EVs are to outspeed opposing Slowbro.

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure (Tough Claws)
EVs: 240 HP / 68 Atk / 96 SDef / 104 Spd
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail
- Roost​

As per a suggestion, I replaced my previous Mienshao with Mega-Aerodactyl, whose main role is to defeat Fire-types that threaten the rest of my team.

Aqua Tail reaches 108 BP with Touch Claws, and with the EVs, OHKOs Nidoking. 104 speed outspeeds base 115s, especially Mega-Houndoom, with the rest dumped into HP and special defense.

Again, he's a newcomer, so I don't have much experience playing with him. Any suggestions or improvements would be appreciated.

Unanswered questions:

-Stone Edge, Whirlwind, or Toxic on Hippowdon?

-Foul Play or Knock Off on Sableye?

-Improvements, if any, for Aerodactyl?

-Team synergy as a whole?

-Threats I cannot wall?



I apologize for any grammatical errors I may or may not have made!

​

 

[Blast]

Nidoking and specially-based Fire-types like Mega Houndoom and Chandelure are by far the biggest threats to your team, as you have nothing that can switch in. An option to help with this is to use a more unorthodox bulky Mega Aerodactyl over Mienshao, being able to tank at least one hit from all three of these guys and OHKO in return. The frail Mienshao is a bit out of place on this rather stallish team anyway so Megadactyl fits a bit better since it can contribute better to the team's defensive nature. I haven't really figured out the "optimal" EV spread, though for now I'm suggesting a spread of 240 HP / 68 Atk / 96 SDef / 104 Spd with a Careful nature. It looks funky though it accomplishes a few things: 68 Atk OHKOes Nidoking with Tough Claws Aqua Tail after SR, 104 Spd outspeeds base 115s like Megadoom and takes them out with Stone Edge, and 96 SDef + Careful hits a jump point in Special Defense.

Also, your team benefits far more from using physically defensive Florges > specially defensive. You're very weak to stuff like Weavile, Mega Absol, Guts Heracross, Mienshao to an extent, etc so by changing Florges to physically defensive you can make much better use out of its resistances to their moves. Plus, thanks to Florges's fat SpD stat the drop in special bulk is a lot less worrisome than it seems. Similarly, your Hippowdon probably wants specially defensive > physically defensive, since it makes it easier to wall Electric-types which could be troublesome otherwise, as well as taking a hit from Mega Houndoom + Chandelure in a pinch and killing with EQ.

Hide

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 68 Atk / 96 SDef / 104 Spd
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail
- Roost

Florges: EV spread --> 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SDef with a Calm Nature

Hippowdon: EV spread --> 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def with a Careful Nature

 

[Triability]

Hey. Just a quick rate, not going into too much depth.

First of all, nidoking absolutely hammers your team. Also, mienshao is not kinda fit for your team because it is a stall team.
So I'd recommend switching Mienshao out for Life Orb Manaphy.

Also, switch slack off for toxic on slowbro because it already has regenerator

 

[Kevun]

Nidoking and specially-based Fire-types like Mega Houndoom and Chandelure are by far the biggest threats to your team, as you have nothing that can switch in. An option to help with this is to use a more unorthodox bulky Mega Aerodactyl over Mienshao, being able to tank at least one hit from all three of these guys and OHKO in return. The frail Mienshao is a bit out of place on this rather stallish team anyway so Megadactyl fits a bit better since it can contribute better to the team's defensive nature. I haven't really figured out the "optimal" EV spread, though for now I'm suggesting a spread of 240 HP / 68 Atk / 96 SDef / 104 Spd with a Careful nature. It looks funky though it accomplishes a few things: 68 Atk OHKOes Nidoking with Tough Claws Aqua Tail after SR, 104 Spd outspeeds base 115s like Megadoom and takes them out with Stone Edge, and 96 SDef + Careful hits a jump point in Special Defense.

Also, your team benefits far more from using physically defensive Florges > specially defensive. You're very weak to stuff like Weavile, Mega Absol, Guts Heracross, Mienshao to an extent, etc so by changing Florges to physically defensive you can make much better use out of its resistances to their moves. Plus, thanks to Florges's fat SpD stat the drop in special bulk is a lot less worrisome than it seems. Similarly, your Hippowdon probably wants specially defensive > physically defensive, since it makes it easier to wall Electric-types which could be troublesome otherwise, as well as taking a hit from Mega Houndoom + Chandelure in a pinch and killing with EQ.

Hide

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 68 Atk / 96 SDef / 104 Spd
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail
- Roost

Florges: EV spread --> 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SDef with a Calm Nature

Hippowdon: EV spread --> 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def with a Careful Nature

Very useful advice! Yes, I agree that Mienshao was not a good fit on on this team, and Mega-Aero seems like a great change. I will also try out switching Florges to physically defensive and Hippowdon to specially defensive.

Also, could you clarify on the 24 SDef EVs for Florges?

Hey. Just a quick rate, not going into too much depth.

First of all, nidoking absolutely hammers your team. Also, mienshao is not kinda fit for your team because it is a stall team.
So I'd recommend switching Mienshao out for Life Orb Manaphy.

Also, switch slack off for toxic on slowbro because it already has regenerator

Manaphy is in OU, so unfortunately I can't use it.

And I believe Slack Off would be ultimately better than toxic, since switching out of Slowbro takes away the CM boosts, and hampers his walling potential. Plus, it inteferes with the burns that Sableye dishes out. Thanks for the suggestions though!

 

[solosisfan]

Hey! Its me again. I would like to add my old Fortress Set to this team due to your fortress set being kinda subpar in my opinion (No Offense)
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Volt Switch
Volt Switch allows for momentum that your team desperately needs. Since Forretress will almost always go last, if they are forced to switch to their defogger/spinner, you could volt switch to 1 get momentum and 2 Counter their defogger, which in turn keeps your hazards up.
My 2 cents :P

 

[solosisfan]

Also, for the 24 SPD on florges, here is something.
252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 117-138 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 2.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Florges: 118-141 (32.7 - 39.1%) -- 11.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Florges: 105-124 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 102-121 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 166-196 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Florges: 170-200 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Idk don't ask me o.O

 

[Kevun]

Hey! Its me again. I would like to add my old Fortress Set to this team due to your fortress set being kinda subpar in my opinion (No Offense)
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Volt Switch
Volt Switch allows for momentum that your team desperately needs. Since Forretress will almost always go last, if they are forced to switch to their defogger/spinner, you could volt switch to 1 get momentum and 2 Counter their defogger, which in turn keeps your hazards up.
My 2 cents :P

Hm, good suggestion, seeing that I don't really have time to attack much anyway using Gyro Ball. I will make the change and see if it helps.

 

[solosisfan]

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Volt Switch

 

[Kevun]

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Volt Switch

What? That's what I used...?

 

[solosisfan]

What? I adjusted the SpD ev and Iv's

 

[Kevun]

What? I adjusted the SpD ev and Iv's

Lol ok, well Volt Switch was bolded and I didn't notice any difference so I got confused :P

 

[DaKakz]

: The main reason stall isn't popular anymore on UU is because of these two, after Chansey got banned literally nothing can safely switch into them as they can easily OHKO/2HKO all physically or specially defensive 'mons in the tier. It's so easy to break stall with them that even a noob can just spam the right move and easily win without much prediction, so I'm interested in hearing how you deal with them with your team ? (cause as far as I know, Sableye gets 2HKO'd by Earth Power and Aerodactyl cannot safely switch in at all) The closest thing to a stop I found for them is Umbreon, who still has to worry about the rare Sheer Force Focus Blast.

: Mixed Life Orb Victini (who is gaining in popularity) is also a nightmare for your team and stall teams in general as again, nothing can sefely switch into it. V-Create easily deals with Foretress, Florges, SpDEF Hippo and Sableye while Bolt Strike 2HKOs Slowbro and can OHKO Mega-Aero on the switch... not to mention that Victini still outspeeds most of your team even after the V-Create stat drops so it can easily spam it.
As it also tends to carry Energy Ball, even Quagsire and Gastro can't wall it so the closest thing to a stop for this is physically defensive Rotom-Heat.

: Another thing I noticed is that on your team, only Sableye has a chance to annoy CroCune with taunt + recover, but after just one Calm Mind, Scald 3HKOs it add the burn chance to that and it may even 2HKOs you. I dunno if it fits your style but I suggest specially defensive Whimsicott as a stop to this, as it takes a tiny amount of damage from Scald, can taunt Suicune, Leech Seed it for recovery and Giga Drain it to death.

I'm interested in hearing your response. :]

 

[Kevun]

: The main reason stall isn't popular anymore on UU is because of these two, after Chansey got banned literally nothing can safely switch into them as they can easily OHKO/2HKO all physically or specially defensive 'mons in the tier. It's so easy to break stall with them that even a noob can just spam the right move and easily win without much prediction, so I'm interested in hearing how you deal with them with your team ? (cause as far as I know, Sableye gets 2HKO'd by Earth Power and Aerodactyl cannot safely switch in at all) The closest thing to a stop I found for them is Umbreon, who still has to worry about the rare Sheer Force Focus Blast.

: Mixed Life Orb Victini (who is gaining in popularity) is also a nightmare for your team and stall teams in general as again, nothing can sefely switch into it. V-Create easily deals with Foretress, Florges, SpDEF Hippo and Sableye while Bolt Strike 2HKOs Slowbro and can OHKO Mega-Aero on the switch... not to mention that Victini still outspeeds most of your team even after the V-Create stat drops so it can easily spam it.
As it also tends to carry Energy Ball, even Quagsire and Gastro can't wall it so the closest thing to a stop for this is physically defensive Rotom-Heat.

: Another thing I noticed is that on your team, only Sableye has a chance to annoy CroCune with taunt + recover, but after just one Calm Mind, Scald 3HKOs it add the burn chance to that and it may even 2HKOs you. I dunno if it fits your style but I suggest specially defensive Whimsicott as a stop to this, as it takes a tiny amount of damage from Scald, can taunt Suicune, Leech Seed it for recovery and Giga Drain it to death.

I'm interested in hearing your response. :]

Some nice points you have there!

To address Nidoking, Aerodactyl at full health can easily switch in, avoiding the OHKO from Ice Beam, and OHKO back with Aqua Tail (after SR). However, Nidoqueen is a much bigger threat, as its bulk avoids the KO from Aqua Tail. I've found that the best method to defeat these two however is using a lure such as Forretress or Florges, which are generally targets for the Nidos, and immediately switch to Aerodactyl, who is immune to Earth Power and takes very little from Sludge Bomb.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 96+ SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 216-255 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As for Victini, I agree, is a very big threat with its unpredictability. However, though the mixed set is gaining popularity Bolt Strike is, more often than not, not used in the mixed set through my experience. (I've only encountered it twice in about seventy games). However, it is quite easy to predict the set based upon what it switches into. In general, Slowbro is the best switch in, regardless of set. With Regenerator, Slowbro can easily scout a set from Victini and switch appropriately. The best counter to this is probably scouting it, whatever it takes, although I would probably be heavily damaged in the process. Definitely trouble, though if I am sure of the particular set, it is fairly easy to counter.

CroCune, however, is a much lesser threat. 90% of the time, Sableye can outplay it, with a combination of Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, and Recover. However, what is a much better check is Slowbro. Even if it is one of two CMs behind, Suicune still does next to no damage to it with Scald, while Slowbro can eventually get past it with Psyshock. Really, its just free setup for Slowbro.

+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 95-112 (24.1 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

In all, what I've learned is that stall is more prediction than anything else, by far. Though it is impossible to outpredict 100% of the time, and I haven't got the experience to come even close, I believe that proper prediction can get past any set. So, I just continue to play, make adjustments, and gain more experience ;). However, I do have to note that I'm currently playing RU, and I haven't played UU for over a week (which is a huge amount of time in terms of trend shifts).

Again, I'd hugely appreciate any suggestions you have to counter these threats you presented!

 

[DaKakz]

Some nice points you have there!

To address Nidoking, Aerodactyl at full health can easily switch in, avoiding the OHKO from Ice Beam, and OHKO back with Aqua Tail (after SR). However, Nidoqueen is a much bigger threat, as its bulk avoids the KO from Aqua Tail. I've found that the best method to defeat these two however is using a lure such as Forretress or Florges, which are generally targets for the Nidos, and immediately switch to Aerodactyl, who is immune to Earth Power and takes very little from Sludge Bomb.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 96+ SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 216-255 (59.8 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Fair point I guess, but it's still a very shaky switch in since like you mentioned, it has to be at full health but I see how it could work out for you most of the times.

As for Victini, I agree, is a very big threat with its unpredictability. However, though the mixed set is gaining popularity Bolt Strike is, more often than not, not used in the mixed set through my experience. (I've only encountered it twice in about seventy games). However, it is quite easy to predict the set based upon what it switches into. In general, Slowbro is the best switch in, regardless of set. With Regenerator, Slowbro can easily scout a set from Victini and switch appropriately. The best counter to this is probably scouting it, whatever it takes, although I would probably be heavily damaged in the process. Definitely trouble, though if I am sure of the particular set, it is fairly easy to counter.

Most good Mixed Life Orb sets have V-Create, Bolt Strike, Energy Ball and Psychic/Shadow Ball and you may not believe it but Bolt Strike 2Hkos Slowbro and OHKO Aero while V-Create destroys the rest of your team, that means that it only takes your opponent to be good at predictions to have Victini single handedly beat your stall team, the only thing that I found that can safely switch into this set is specially defensive Arcanine with Intimidate. (thank god the predictable Choice Scarf set is still more popular)

CroCune, however, is a much lesser threat. 90% of the time, Sableye can outplay it, with a combination of Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, and Recover. However, what is a much better check is Slowbro. Even if it is one of two CMs behind, Suicune still does next to no damage to it with Scald, while Slowbro can eventually get past it with Psyshock. Really, its just free setup for Slowbro.

+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 95-112 (24.1 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

In all, what I've learned is that stall is more prediction than anything else, by far. Though it is impossible to outpredict 100% of the time, and I haven't got the experience to come even close, I believe that proper prediction can get past any set. So, I just continue to play, make adjustments, and gain more experience ;). However, I do have to note that I'm currently playing RU, and I haven't played UU for over a week (which is a huge amount of time in terms of trend shifts).

Again, I'd hugely appreciate any suggestions you have to counter these threats you presented!

Fair point I guess about CroCune, still make sure to try SpDef Whimsicott if you found yourself having trouble against it in the future. :]

Also, I'm interested in seeing some replays. ;]

 

[Cadence]

DaKakz this might help you as well

I use a specially defensive Gastrodon to take on the Nidos. It's a hard counter to both and either threatens back with a Scald (or Earth Power) or can heal back up. It takes ~35% min to ~40% max from Earth Power IIRC.

The set is:

Hide

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Recover

You could use this over the M-Aero that was suggested. The idea behind this Gastro is to use it's excellent typing to switch-in to special attacks the rest of your team can't. It would give you a solid (special) Fire-Type, Nido, CroCune (a Taunt then a switch is the only way you'll beat Crocune though, and LO+3 Attacks always HP Grass or another way to deal with waters), and Mega-Manectric switch-in. Just be sure to be on the lookout for random HP Grasses. I suggest you play conservatively with this Gastrodon if you decide to use it as it needs to be near full health if it wants to switch in on the Nidos with SR down.

Some calculations:

Hide

252 SpA Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 114-135 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- 28.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 153-181 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- 92% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 168-198 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 150-177 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- 77.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 72-85 (16.9 - 19.9%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 121-143 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- 96.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[DaKakz]

Kevun messaged me and told me he has been taking a brake from UU, once he comes back he should definitely try the specially defensive Gastrodon you suggested. (I can't believe I didn't think of it before :P)