Without a doubt. Some tiering will need to be redone.
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Metagame Fortemons
- Thread starter ponchlake
- Start date
Is rage fist on primeape legal? If so, does it have any niche?
Why Did you banned treads? blastoise Is the only decent spinner now>:(
Quaquaval and Excadrill are the best Rapid Spinners right now. I have no idea why you are using Blastoise. It is slower, does much less damage, and cannot attempt a sweep by itself.
Honestly I'm over U-turn being allowed back in fortemons as the move being in the item slot has made its case clear that it is too much for the meta. Same reason it gets banned as usual is that faster Pokémon get to fire off decent to powerful attacks with no drawbacks and there isn't really much counter play as the counter to the u turn user does not matter because by the time they switch in the user is switched out and able to bring in a counter to the U-turn counter. A common situation I see is team preview into Turn 1 where hyper offense teams just lead their U turn user:
For leads like Dragapult just click draco, if there's a fairy on the team you just go for a safe option and play the free reaction to your opponent. Same for greninja which is why it should be unbanned and u turn be banned instead.
Bigger abuser of u turn since it beats most other U-turn users to me is lead Lokix that will always get off at least neutral chip in majority of scenarios at turn 1. It will always win lead matchups as you can't hit it before it fires off first impression. It will always follow up being able repeat this over and over as long as lokix has teammates alive it'll be able to abuse U-turn.
I'm willing to listen to counterarguments to be serious in trying to find the case to prove that U-turn is not broken and should be banned again.
For leads like Dragapult just click draco, if there's a fairy on the team you just go for a safe option and play the free reaction to your opponent. Same for greninja which is why it should be unbanned and u turn be banned instead.
Bigger abuser of u turn since it beats most other U-turn users to me is lead Lokix that will always get off at least neutral chip in majority of scenarios at turn 1. It will always win lead matchups as you can't hit it before it fires off first impression. It will always follow up being able repeat this over and over as long as lokix has teammates alive it'll be able to abuse U-turn.
I'm willing to listen to counterarguments to be serious in trying to find the case to prove that U-turn is not broken and should be banned again.
Well it paralyzes the foe and has haze
Body Press deserves to be restricted from Fortemons. It effectively allows Iron Defense or Acid Armor Pokemon to raise their Defense, Attack, and Special Attack all by two stages in one turn. The only way to counter them is using specially offensive Pokemon, and the most common ones (Darkrai, Lati@s, Iron Valiant, Slowking-Galar) fail to beat them.
Since the banning of Archaludon and Iron Treads, Diancie, Skarmory, and Corviknight have mainly taken their place. Diancie can easily run Trick Room, Iron Defense/Diamond Storm, Draining Kiss, and Earth Power to easily wreck any Pokemon that aren't (guess what) Corviknight or Skarmory. There are 0 physically offensive Pokemon that can counter it besides using Iron Head or Excadrill (which is worse than Quaquaval), and special attackers have a hard time taking down its base 150 special defense. Furthermore, since Diancie has Clear Body, special walls such as Slowking-Galar are unable to chip it down properly with Acid Spray.
Corviknight and Skarmory are more utilized in response to the rise of Diancie. The only two counters they really have are Fire-types (mainly Special), since the only used Electric Pokemon is Regieleki, and it isn't even that common. Skarmory is especially threatening to physical attackers due to Weak Armor, which allows it to easily sweep teams once it is activated. Meanwhile, Corviknight can easily be used as a wall in the early game and clean up teams during the endgame once its counters have disappeared.
Simply banning the Body Press abusers does nothing to the metagame. If Diancie, Skarmory, and Corviknight were banned, Carbink, Kommo-o, Cobalion, Metagross, Goodra-Hisui, etc. would simply take their place.
Since the banning of Archaludon and Iron Treads, Diancie, Skarmory, and Corviknight have mainly taken their place. Diancie can easily run Trick Room, Iron Defense/Diamond Storm, Draining Kiss, and Earth Power to easily wreck any Pokemon that aren't (guess what) Corviknight or Skarmory. There are 0 physically offensive Pokemon that can counter it besides using Iron Head or Excadrill (which is worse than Quaquaval), and special attackers have a hard time taking down its base 150 special defense. Furthermore, since Diancie has Clear Body, special walls such as Slowking-Galar are unable to chip it down properly with Acid Spray.
Corviknight and Skarmory are more utilized in response to the rise of Diancie. The only two counters they really have are Fire-types (mainly Special), since the only used Electric Pokemon is Regieleki, and it isn't even that common. Skarmory is especially threatening to physical attackers due to Weak Armor, which allows it to easily sweep teams once it is activated. Meanwhile, Corviknight can easily be used as a wall in the early game and clean up teams during the endgame once its counters have disappeared.
Simply banning the Body Press abusers does nothing to the metagame. If Diancie, Skarmory, and Corviknight were banned, Carbink, Kommo-o, Cobalion, Metagross, Goodra-Hisui, etc. would simply take their place.
Drain Punch to the promised land basically. Light Clay is banned and it can't run Eviolte, so you're kinda forced to run fast Ape since the bulk isn't very good, and a good opponent isn't gonna let you farm them with it. It's definitely usable though.
Your post mostly boils down to Diancie being problematic rather than Body Press users. You can make the argument for Diancie, but this is just a repeat of people complaining about Archuladon or Iron Treads and wanting a Body Press ban because of it. Diancie is likely the strongest Body Press mon right now, but the current state of Body Press users is fine right now. All the other users you mentioned are currently viable and ran on the ladder, and they're not broken or overwhelming. Again, I don't see a reason to restrict Body Press when we barely have 3 problematic users of it.
And to the point that banning it does nothing to the metagame, it's one of the most interesting and liked facets of the metagame. You basically get FP on a single mon, and that's a cool concept. That said we're not gonna bend over backwards to preserve cool gimmicks (just take a look at how massive our banlist is), but there is just little substance for a Body Press ban currently. Diancie is arguable and after that nothing is quite close to it. Carbink is not on the same level as Diancie and neither are the other Body Press users as they currently stand.
Here’s some mons that aren’t on the VR but should be imo.
(Loaded Dice, Breaking Swipe, Crunch, Dragon Breath): Baxcalibur doesn’t benefit a whole lot from this meta’s mechanic but it can still abuse effect chances with its multi-hit STABs or just be a solid sweeper with Loaded Dice.
(Draining Kiss): Latias is a really solid offensive mon with longevity thanks to Draining Kiss and good bulk. It can often tank and get all its HP back with a boosted attack. Mist Ball is a good STAB that lets it duel opposing CMers too.
(Choice Scarf): with lots of snowballing effects like Charge Beam, Trailblaze, and Rapid Spin, Ditto is a great revenge killer
(Heavy-Duty Boots): This is literally just the best item for it with all the spikes going around
(Draining Kiss): It literally has draining kiss, no need for drain punch
(Rocky helmet): Contact punishing is great in this meta cause a lot of effects imbue contact on their moves. It can serve to limit annoying mons like Samurott-H, U-turn mons like Lokix, multi-hit mons, and Rapid Spin abusers.
(Body Press): Chesnaught is an interesting Body Press abuser cause it has two healing STAB options that give it nice longevity. It has a great matchup against Samurott-H and can blank some incidental mons with Bulletproof, but it’s really the ability to tank and regain all its HP that makes it hard to take out.
(Loaded Dice, Breaking Swipe, Crunch, Dragon Breath): Baxcalibur doesn’t benefit a whole lot from this meta’s mechanic but it can still abuse effect chances with its multi-hit STABs or just be a solid sweeper with Loaded Dice. (Draining Kiss): Latias is a really solid offensive mon with longevity thanks to Draining Kiss and good bulk. It can often tank and get all its HP back with a boosted attack. Mist Ball is a good STAB that lets it duel opposing CMers too. (Choice Scarf): with lots of snowballing effects like Charge Beam, Trailblaze, and Rapid Spin, Ditto is a great revenge killer(Heavy-Duty Boots): This is literally just the best item for it with all the spikes going around(Draining Kiss): It literally has draining kiss, no need for drain punch(Rocky helmet): Contact punishing is great in this meta cause a lot of effects imbue contact on their moves. It can serve to limit annoying mons like Samurott-H, U-turn mons like Lokix, multi-hit mons, and Rapid Spin abusers. (Body Press): Chesnaught is an interesting Body Press abuser cause it has two healing STAB options that give it nice longevity. It has a great matchup against Samurott-H and can blank some incidental mons with Bulletproof, but it’s really the ability to tank and regain all its HP that makes it hard to take out.
I've played 316 games of Fortemons, was ranked 1# again BABY until I was dethroned today. Figured I'd join in on the VR discussion.
S+:
Samurott-H defines Fortemons. It's on almost every team, offensive or otherwise. It's got duel priority, pivoting and hits very hard with the 50% sharpness - all while stacking hazards in a metagame seriously lacking in reliable methods of removal. Samurott-Hs casts a large shadow over teambuilding and is the only mon, imo, that deserves the distintiction of being 1#
S:
The second fastest viable pokemon (Deo-S). Very unpredictable with multiple viable sets. Can be a special, physical or mixed pivot w/ U-turn. It can sweep with DD Dragon Darts + Assurance. It can set up screens with Light clay. Dragapult is good for the same reason its good in OU, versatility, speed and power. Not as defining as Samurott-H though.
Arguably the most consistent Body Press setup sweeper currently. Sp.Def sets with roost + ID + duel stabs (mixed) is very threatening. It also checks many common offensive threats while threatning to sweep. Checks like Raging Bolt, Heatran, Gouging Fire, Volcarona, Iron Moth etc. lack reliable recovery and can struggle to switch into this multiple times during a game. None of them can switch into Sp.def variants on and ID and OHKO it either. It also checks the three most common spinners in Excadrill, Quaq and Glimmora.
Not 100% sure on this, it might be A. Imo its the best spinner in the metagame. It's faster than Quaq and Glimmora, has access to Stealth Rock and can threaten teams with SD aswell. But perhaps even more importantly its one of the few "good" ground types in the metagame right now.
I'm fairly confident in those first three, and mostly sure on Excadrill but it's debatable.
is fairly solid and I agree with readytolose that HDB is probably the best item for it. However I don't think its as defining as the other mons I've mentioned above. But still, very very solid.
I'm not even sure if this is A, its certainly not S rank. Yeah its fast and hits pretty hard, but its weak to priority, frail and has Charge Beam is better on either Iron Valiant or Latios tbh.
I agree with the sentiment of the first couple post on this page that some of the placements in the VR is really... weird. Glad to see that Delibird was removed from the VR, I've literally never seen it. I've barely seen
on the ladder and im not sure why you would use it. Yeah it hits pretty hard and can setup rocks, but its slow and there's better steel and dragon types. Not sure why its B rank.
is alright but I don't think its A worthy at all. A lot of things hit hard with Body Press but it's sooo slow. Scary under trick room - but that's true for a lot of things under Trick room. Sun isn't that common of a playstyle either. Should move down to B.
is alright, but it doesnt deserve to be lumped in with Latios which can be very scary. Stored power can be scary - but there's plenty of competition for bulky setup sweepers that arguably fufill this roll better (Primarina, Bolt, Clefable etc.)
Some other mons worthy of a ranking:
(Body Press) Surprisingly one of the best wallbreakers in the current metagame. Steam Eruption, Overheat, EQ and Wild Charge hits almost everything in the metagame very, very hard. It counters Primarina (once) even with rocks up. Gives you a water immunity to play around Samurott-H, Quaq and Alomomola. With body press you hit hard on both sides of the spectrum and can continue to spam overheat without worries. Latios, Dragapult and Giratina-O can switch in, but thats about it. With Sticky Web up this thing is an absolute monster. It might be the fact that few people expect it, but I think it deserves a closer look. Mightbe A.
Life Orb for special or any move boosted by Sheer force for physical attackers. I think a lot of people overlook mons that don't utilize the mechanics of Fortemons, but Lando-I is Ubers for a reason. Hits very hard, decent speed, versatile and a ground type! Fun mon to use.
This thing is a real menace tbh. Hits very hard, bulky as hell and access to defog. People really underestimate how powerful and fast this thing is. I've OHKOd a dozen Samurott-H expecting to outspeed with Draco Meteor. Shadow Sneak is also really nice to pickoff weakened opponents. This thing is A- in Ubers and excellent in Fortemons for the same reasons. Should move up to A.
Should also be higher than C. It can run U-turn, HDB or Flame Charge - all of which are solid. Having Court Change in the back makes your opponent think twice about setting up hazards - a great asset in this meta. Stab Sucker punch to revenge kill Deo-S, Dragapult, +1 Latios and more. Pyro ball hits Corvik and Excadrill hard. Gunk Shot can OHKO Primarina with some chip.
Lastly, I'd like to voice my support for InkyDarkBird. Body Press deserves a suspect test imo for the reasons Inky stated. Body Press is the most defining aspect of the meta, even more than Samurott-H tbh. I dont know if the move itself is broken, there's certainly been a couple of broken abusers already and it deserves to be discussed extensively before any action is taken imo.
Thats all I had time for now!
Thank you for taking the time, gotta say I've enjoyed this metagame more and more as its stabilized. Cheers
S+:
S:
I'm fairly confident in those first three, and mostly sure on Excadrill but it's debatable.
I agree with the sentiment of the first couple post on this page that some of the placements in the VR is really... weird. Glad to see that Delibird was removed from the VR, I've literally never seen it. I've barely seen
Some other mons worthy of a ranking:
Lastly, I'd like to voice my support for InkyDarkBird. Body Press deserves a suspect test imo for the reasons Inky stated. Body Press is the most defining aspect of the meta, even more than Samurott-H tbh. I dont know if the move itself is broken, there's certainly been a couple of broken abusers already and it deserves to be discussed extensively before any action is taken imo.
Thats all I had time for now!
Thank you for taking the time, gotta say I've enjoyed this metagame more and more as its stabilized. Cheers
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i'm starting to wonder if u-turn is a bit broken (i am a relatively new player to the meta, take what i say with a grain of salt)
u-turn in the item slot is probably my least favorite thing about the meta currently, maybe a little bit behind body press. it encourages dumb plays, and allows you to get away with it (relatively) freely. stuff like lokix dragapult, cinderace, hell even INTELEON of all things are abusers who can use strong moves, and get away with it. it's free momentum for your side that the opponent can't do anything about! you switch to resist the move, they're still switching out so it doesn't matter. you tank the hit, well you're taking massive damage and can't counter-attack back. skill issue tbh, should've just broke your opponents legs so they couldn't switch out
i just don't see an argument that would prove pivot moves are balanced, or healthy. hazards do exist, and samurott-h is by far the most important mon in the meta, but.. there's cinderace, quaquaval, excadrill, even the weird niche picks of terapagos and blastoise, ALL able to comfortably remove hazards whether via court change or rapid spin in the item slot. there's no counterplay to having your dragapult click draco meteor turn 1 and get loads of damage off on whatever poor lead your opponent has. get rid of u-turn, get rid of body press, and give porygon-z boomburst. thank you for your time.
u-turn in the item slot is probably my least favorite thing about the meta currently, maybe a little bit behind body press. it encourages dumb plays, and allows you to get away with it (relatively) freely. stuff like lokix dragapult, cinderace, hell even INTELEON of all things are abusers who can use strong moves, and get away with it. it's free momentum for your side that the opponent can't do anything about! you switch to resist the move, they're still switching out so it doesn't matter. you tank the hit, well you're taking massive damage and can't counter-attack back. skill issue tbh, should've just broke your opponents legs so they couldn't switch out
i just don't see an argument that would prove pivot moves are balanced, or healthy. hazards do exist, and samurott-h is by far the most important mon in the meta, but.. there's cinderace, quaquaval, excadrill, even the weird niche picks of terapagos and blastoise, ALL able to comfortably remove hazards whether via court change or rapid spin in the item slot. there's no counterplay to having your dragapult click draco meteor turn 1 and get loads of damage off on whatever poor lead your opponent has. get rid of u-turn, get rid of body press, and give porygon-z boomburst. thank you for your time.
Can someone please correct Regieleki's Forte list in the Viability Rankings? It can't learn U-turn, and Electro Ball is banned from the item slot.
If you want niche picks, I have had success with these Rapid Spin Forte users in roomtours and high ladder:
Tsareena @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Triple Axel
- High Jump Kick
- Taunt / Knock Off
Toedscruel @ rapidspin
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Leaf Storm / Energy Ball / Giga Drain
- Toxic / Leech Seed /Spore
- Sludge Bomb
These do fairly well against Samurott-H and most Rock- and Ground-type Stealth Rock setters, even if Samu-H knows a pivot move nowadays.
I think both of them are C-worthy since Tatsugiri is. Toedscruel may be in the lower sub-rank, but even its mere presence is enough to cause Regieleki trouble, and at least Toedscruel actually outspeeds Samu-H and forces Sucker Punch mind games. (Tsareena being immune to priority is a great boon, though!)
Vouching to keep Dialga-O in B rank - I've tried it, and although it doesn't have Absorb Forte Goodra-H's longevity, it is faster and more powerful, and it can still ward off every single Trick Room attempt with a combination of Dragon Tail/Roar and a Steel-type move.
If you want niche picks, I have had success with these Rapid Spin Forte users in roomtours and high ladder:
Tsareena @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Triple Axel
- High Jump Kick
- Taunt / Knock Off
Toedscruel @ rapidspin
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Leaf Storm / Energy Ball / Giga Drain
- Toxic / Leech Seed /
- Sludge Bomb
These do fairly well against Samurott-H and most Rock- and Ground-type Stealth Rock setters, even if Samu-H knows a pivot move nowadays.
I think both of them are C-worthy since Tatsugiri is. Toedscruel may be in the lower sub-rank, but even its mere presence is enough to cause Regieleki trouble, and at least Toedscruel actually outspeeds Samu-H and forces Sucker Punch mind games. (Tsareena being immune to priority is a great boon, though!)
Vouching to keep Dialga-O in B rank - I've tried it, and although it doesn't have Absorb Forte Goodra-H's longevity, it is faster and more powerful, and it can still ward off every single Trick Room attempt with a combination of Dragon Tail/Roar and a Steel-type move.
Is Superpower item Bullet seed any good? It will be unpredictable (no loaded dice 
), but seems like it would be a budget Latios/Latias and that is on the VR.
), but seems like it would be a budget Latios/Latias and that is on the VR.
Gotta watch out for hard Grass-type immunities and Lurantis's low Speed.
Speaking of hard immunities, Tatsugiri having Storm Drain has made it a decent switch-in to Inteleon, I'm finding. U-turn Forte fails if the move is absorbed, so it's almost always a free boost and momentum, while Rapid Spin Forte puts 252+ Spe Tatsugiri ahead of max Speed Dragapult if you attack on the switch (though you need to look out for immunities yourself). Between Tatsu's 120 Special Attack, Nasty Plot, and a few utility options, C might be a little low for it.
Speaking of hard immunities, Tatsugiri having Storm Drain has made it a decent switch-in to Inteleon, I'm finding. U-turn Forte fails if the move is absorbed, so it's almost always a free boost and momentum, while Rapid Spin Forte puts 252+ Spe Tatsugiri ahead of max Speed Dragapult if you attack on the switch (though you need to look out for immunities yourself). Between Tatsu's 120 Special Attack, Nasty Plot, and a few utility options, C might be a little low for it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2036836138
Ran into a bug where Heavy Slam won't work on a donphan in grassy terrain. Forte is Payback.
Ran into a bug where Heavy Slam won't work on a donphan in grassy terrain. Forte is Payback.
Damage modifiers like Payback replace the original damage modifier of the moves, and as Heavy Slam has no original BP it calcs it with base 0.
this OM has turned me into the joker, so I've been terrorizing ladder with this EXTREMELY anti-meta stall team
https://pokepast.es/0707d03b5fe51294
literally goes against the entire spirit of the metagame, but you might like it if you're a grumpy old crumudgeon like me and enjoy playing OMs by doing the exact opposite thing of what you SHOULD be doing.
EDIT: boots on clod might be the better item, you have no offensive counterplay to samurott-h so you'll be eating a lot of spikes which can really wear the guy down
EDIT 2: felt it was important to mention that i got to 1400 ELO while forgetting to actually run sharpness on my team builder, if you needed more proof that ceaseless edge is the only forte you'll ever need
https://pokepast.es/0707d03b5fe51294
Talonflame @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 226 Def / 34 Spe
Serious Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Defog
- Flare Blitz
very weird choice i know, but flame body is a lifesaver and can immediately cheese games. a dicey physical breaker has a 30% chance to get sat on by donozo forever. its worth rolling every time, and multi hits make it even jucier. will o wisp can come in clutch sometimes if you can afford a turn without roosting. this slot used to be volcarona but unfortunately not running hazard control just wasn't an option. this thing will almost never attack unless it is securing a kill or you're sacking it, so hdb is much more useful than a forte. speed is originally to creep quaquaval with brave bird, but somehow this team is crippingly weak to body press forretress, so flare blitz is apparently required until i find a better solution.
Milotic @ dragontail
Ability: Marvel Scale
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
- Flip Turn
- Recover
the sleeper goat, i actually got rolled on by a dragon tail mew tspikes team which inspired this idea a while back, but i couldnt get the mew set to work myself, but then i stumbled upon this beauty. does so much work for you, solid mixed bulk, phases out threats, spreads hazard damage, burn chance, pivot, makes you breakfast, it does everything but hazard control and damage, essentially. is also a stupid hard antilead against glimmora, you'll one shot it with mirror coat and likely get a convenient normal poison status out of it, activating multiscale and protecting you from toxic and paralysis for the game. its only real issue is that overreliance will wear it out quickly, but be smart and this will be the biggest pain in the enemy's ass on your team.
Samurott-Hisui @ Ceaseless Edge
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Flip Turn
- Sucker Punch
- Sacred Sword
hooray, this thing didn't get banned!!!! we get to live in a meta where this is on every team, yayyyy!!!! and guess what; you dont HAVE to use it for free hazard setup on hyper offense, you can ALSO use it to constantly spread chip through an agonizingly drawn out game! little salty about this one, but unfortunately he does get the job done, and nothing else does it better, and on this team has the benefit of forcing poison damage or more hazard chip on opponents afraid of sucker punch.
Dondozo @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Liquidation
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
possibly the final bastion against total samurott-h supremacy, just a typical unaware wall here. send it in on things it hard walls and rack up the chip. it can save you from deadly breakers in a pinch, but sometimes it can be less bulky at +0 than you want it to be, so just watch your health and dont raw switch into him too much. again too passive to benefit from a forte, rocky helmet legitimately probably does well >50% per game, remember that contact is purely based off forte. focus on pivoting this in against rapid spin fortes, taking them out is your main wincon, so take as much chip as you can get.
Kingambit @ Life Orb
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head
classic gatekeeper, if he has to come out you've probably done something wrong, but he gets it done. as plain as the gambit sets come, the hope is that they've eaten enough chip to die to poison before you run out of sucker punches, but the 50/50 minigame is alqays there for you. is also good as a backup sucker punch for the lati twins, unfortunately i dont have a great answer to them. unless im mistaken there doesn't seem to be a damage boosting forte for gambit, so lorb it is
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
typically you want this guy out to set a layer of tspikes asap. force them to work for a safe removal, pivot it back in after they spin them away and set another layer, chip is the name of the game with this team so you ideally want poison on every mon that can be poisoned. id really like to run water absorb but serperior is just too big a threat otherwise, its probably worth running poison jab > earthquake just to secure a completely safe out vs it and not risk too much para hax. again, too passive to make use of any forte, so lefties it is.
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 226 Def / 34 Spe
Serious Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Defog
- Flare Blitz
very weird choice i know, but flame body is a lifesaver and can immediately cheese games. a dicey physical breaker has a 30% chance to get sat on by donozo forever. its worth rolling every time, and multi hits make it even jucier. will o wisp can come in clutch sometimes if you can afford a turn without roosting. this slot used to be volcarona but unfortunately not running hazard control just wasn't an option. this thing will almost never attack unless it is securing a kill or you're sacking it, so hdb is much more useful than a forte. speed is originally to creep quaquaval with brave bird, but somehow this team is crippingly weak to body press forretress, so flare blitz is apparently required until i find a better solution.
Milotic @ dragontail
Ability: Marvel Scale
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
- Flip Turn
- Recover
the sleeper goat, i actually got rolled on by a dragon tail mew tspikes team which inspired this idea a while back, but i couldnt get the mew set to work myself, but then i stumbled upon this beauty. does so much work for you, solid mixed bulk, phases out threats, spreads hazard damage, burn chance, pivot, makes you breakfast, it does everything but hazard control and damage, essentially. is also a stupid hard antilead against glimmora, you'll one shot it with mirror coat and likely get a convenient normal poison status out of it, activating multiscale and protecting you from toxic and paralysis for the game. its only real issue is that overreliance will wear it out quickly, but be smart and this will be the biggest pain in the enemy's ass on your team.
Samurott-Hisui @ Ceaseless Edge
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Flip Turn
- Sucker Punch
- Sacred Sword
hooray, this thing didn't get banned!!!! we get to live in a meta where this is on every team, yayyyy!!!! and guess what; you dont HAVE to use it for free hazard setup on hyper offense, you can ALSO use it to constantly spread chip through an agonizingly drawn out game! little salty about this one, but unfortunately he does get the job done, and nothing else does it better, and on this team has the benefit of forcing poison damage or more hazard chip on opponents afraid of sucker punch.
Dondozo @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Liquidation
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
possibly the final bastion against total samurott-h supremacy, just a typical unaware wall here. send it in on things it hard walls and rack up the chip. it can save you from deadly breakers in a pinch, but sometimes it can be less bulky at +0 than you want it to be, so just watch your health and dont raw switch into him too much. again too passive to benefit from a forte, rocky helmet legitimately probably does well >50% per game, remember that contact is purely based off forte. focus on pivoting this in against rapid spin fortes, taking them out is your main wincon, so take as much chip as you can get.
Kingambit @ Life Orb
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head
classic gatekeeper, if he has to come out you've probably done something wrong, but he gets it done. as plain as the gambit sets come, the hope is that they've eaten enough chip to die to poison before you run out of sucker punches, but the 50/50 minigame is alqays there for you. is also good as a backup sucker punch for the lati twins, unfortunately i dont have a great answer to them. unless im mistaken there doesn't seem to be a damage boosting forte for gambit, so lorb it is
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
typically you want this guy out to set a layer of tspikes asap. force them to work for a safe removal, pivot it back in after they spin them away and set another layer, chip is the name of the game with this team so you ideally want poison on every mon that can be poisoned. id really like to run water absorb but serperior is just too big a threat otherwise, its probably worth running poison jab > earthquake just to secure a completely safe out vs it and not risk too much para hax. again, too passive to make use of any forte, so lefties it is.
literally goes against the entire spirit of the metagame, but you might like it if you're a grumpy old crumudgeon like me and enjoy playing OMs by doing the exact opposite thing of what you SHOULD be doing.
-strong psychic types are a problem and take really smart prediction and baiting to deal with. one of the only things that don't really have any option for a clean low risk out.
-body press sweepers are probably gg if they can kill dozo. unfortunately not sure how to build around it. the entire team folds to forretress of all things if it has the right moveset.
-clodsire is your literally only bastion against electric types, thankfully he's usually more than enough but if he goes down you will get absolutely steamrolled if they're not in range for a sucker punch kill. typically electric breakers aren't super common, just dont be surprised if you immediately detonate from rising voltage roaring bolt if it knows EQ.
-clod's iffy defensive typing also can make consistently checking multiple special setup sweepers difficult. do your best to phase with milotic and hopefully you'll chip them out before clod goes down.
-body press sweepers are probably gg if they can kill dozo. unfortunately not sure how to build around it. the entire team folds to forretress of all things if it has the right moveset.
-clodsire is your literally only bastion against electric types, thankfully he's usually more than enough but if he goes down you will get absolutely steamrolled if they're not in range for a sucker punch kill. typically electric breakers aren't super common, just dont be surprised if you immediately detonate from rising voltage roaring bolt if it knows EQ.
-clod's iffy defensive typing also can make consistently checking multiple special setup sweepers difficult. do your best to phase with milotic and hopefully you'll chip them out before clod goes down.
EDIT: boots on clod might be the better item, you have no offensive counterplay to samurott-h so you'll be eating a lot of spikes which can really wear the guy down
EDIT 2: felt it was important to mention that i got to 1400 ELO while forgetting to actually run sharpness on my team builder, if you needed more proof that ceaseless edge is the only forte you'll ever need
ive found that charge beam IV is a much more effective cleaner than gambit, can consistently check the lati twins as long as they dont have a boost, actually stops samurott from doing whatever it wants all game, and because its so fast it applies some much needed presure to secure kills on targets you've chipped down but struggle to remove completely. vaccum wave is weak but the emergency priority can come in handy, especially if you have a boost or two already
Iron Valiant @ Charge Beam
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Vacuum Wave
- Psyshock
- Aura Sphere
Iron Valiant @ Charge Beam
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Vacuum Wave
- Psyshock
- Aura Sphere
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Thank you! So if I say ran Lash Out or Stomping Tantrum they wouldn't stack?
Not sure why Delibird was ever on the VR. Its stats are atrocious. Could it have intended to be Iron Bundle? It also gets present and its stats aren't crap.
Probably (hopefully) just a joke. Iron Bundle is banned so its unlikely they meant that.
I've been playing far, far too much Fortemons than one should and post all the bannings (the team I had the most success with has 4/6 members banned now) I've been having a lot of fun with this team more or less centered around Pecharunt.
I started building this team the day it became legal and it's what you could call the centerpiece of the whole team. Very bulky on the physical side and a good array for resists allowing it to switch into a lot of threats even on the special side. Acid Spray is another option for a forte but veno is honestly a lot more funny while not immediately giving away the jig. Malignant Chain is super threatening to non-poisons/steels and lets it chunk popular fairy types like Enam, Val, and Primarina. It can pivot on disadvantageous matchups with parting shot too. A generally decent and useful mon. An interesting quirk is since Knock Off is bad in this OM; a lot of mons will end up running throat chop as dark stab which blocks parting shot.
Special wall + Hazard Removal + Ungodly mixed damage. What's not to love about this worm? Being fully invested in special bulk lets it survive hits it has no right to live (like Val Moonblasts) and snag KOs back. Will-O in particular allows it to punish sucker on Lokix and Samu-H. Being mixed lets it stay in after a draco and punish one-sided walls. If I were to build another team around this guy I think fat wish passing from something like Amolamola might be really good since it has trouble sticking around without recovery.
Button clicker simulator. Speed control for the team and my lead like half the time. Hits hard and pivots into another mon what more can I say really? Gunk Shot one hits Primarina with chip I guess? You feel immense despair when you miss any of it's attacks but the high from Pyro Ball burns is unmatched. Sucker used to be court change and might be better as such but I haven't gotten into a position where either was vital after changing it so idk.
Wrote about this set earlier in the thread and won't repeat much. Sweeps through teams surprisingly often and is an interesting piece of the team's defensive structure. I initially considered it because the first variant of the team got ran through by Samu-H which is very very bad in Samu-H, the meta. It incidentally throttles Lokix as well and ladder loves that guy. Beats Diancie with Iron Head, on a predict it'll blow through Enam, Quaq gets set up on, Excadrill gets set up on and drain punched and can do little in return, beats most other BP mons, etc. The big weakness he has is vs fast draco spammers, so like Pult and the Lati twins. Notably fairy types aren't too huge of an issue since Pecha can switch in for free on them. Very strong and reliable mon capable of running through teams while being a defensive foothold,
Flex slot on the team. I realized I kinda folded to set up sweepers/charge beam abusers so I wanted to slot in a unaware mon. Used to be Clef but it's stats felt lacking so switched to Dozo. Does not hit as hard as you might think even with Avalanche but is a 'fine' mon generally. I really wish I could run Dirge in this slot but SOMEBODY cough cough flame charge cough cough had to ruin that.
Revenge Kill god. It just does regular gambit things but now it's an even scarier revenge killer. Very standard besides brick break which I ran because it doesn't hit Samu-H very hard otherwise. You could still probably run swords dance instead of BB but whatever.
In terms of problems this team has the most notable is that BP Skarm/Corv are very very painful to deal without Kommo-o and if allowed to get going. In general losing Kommo-o to an early misplay means everything tends to fall apart if it didn't trade well in the process.
Now that I have written my peace on this fun little team and spread the gospel of Kommo-o once more I can get back to not having to jam games of this meta between every waking moment of my day.
I started building this team the day it became legal and it's what you could call the centerpiece of the whole team. Very bulky on the physical side and a good array for resists allowing it to switch into a lot of threats even on the special side. Acid Spray is another option for a forte but veno is honestly a lot more funny while not immediately giving away the jig. Malignant Chain is super threatening to non-poisons/steels and lets it chunk popular fairy types like Enam, Val, and Primarina. It can pivot on disadvantageous matchups with parting shot too. A generally decent and useful mon. An interesting quirk is since Knock Off is bad in this OM; a lot of mons will end up running throat chop as dark stab which blocks parting shot.
Special wall + Hazard Removal + Ungodly mixed damage. What's not to love about this worm? Being fully invested in special bulk lets it survive hits it has no right to live (like Val Moonblasts) and snag KOs back. Will-O in particular allows it to punish sucker on Lokix and Samu-H. Being mixed lets it stay in after a draco and punish one-sided walls. If I were to build another team around this guy I think fat wish passing from something like Amolamola might be really good since it has trouble sticking around without recovery.
Button clicker simulator. Speed control for the team and my lead like half the time. Hits hard and pivots into another mon what more can I say really? Gunk Shot one hits Primarina with chip I guess? You feel immense despair when you miss any of it's attacks but the high from Pyro Ball burns is unmatched. Sucker used to be court change and might be better as such but I haven't gotten into a position where either was vital after changing it so idk.
Wrote about this set earlier in the thread and won't repeat much. Sweeps through teams surprisingly often and is an interesting piece of the team's defensive structure. I initially considered it because the first variant of the team got ran through by Samu-H which is very very bad in Samu-H, the meta. It incidentally throttles Lokix as well and ladder loves that guy. Beats Diancie with Iron Head, on a predict it'll blow through Enam, Quaq gets set up on, Excadrill gets set up on and drain punched and can do little in return, beats most other BP mons, etc. The big weakness he has is vs fast draco spammers, so like Pult and the Lati twins. Notably fairy types aren't too huge of an issue since Pecha can switch in for free on them. Very strong and reliable mon capable of running through teams while being a defensive foothold,
Flex slot on the team. I realized I kinda folded to set up sweepers/charge beam abusers so I wanted to slot in a unaware mon. Used to be Clef but it's stats felt lacking so switched to Dozo. Does not hit as hard as you might think even with Avalanche but is a 'fine' mon generally. I really wish I could run Dirge in this slot but SOMEBODY cough cough flame charge cough cough had to ruin that.
Revenge Kill god. It just does regular gambit things but now it's an even scarier revenge killer. Very standard besides brick break which I ran because it doesn't hit Samu-H very hard otherwise. You could still probably run swords dance instead of BB but whatever.
In terms of problems this team has the most notable is that BP Skarm/Corv are very very painful to deal without Kommo-o and if allowed to get going. In general losing Kommo-o to an early misplay means everything tends to fall apart if it didn't trade well in the process.
Kommo-o at his peak: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2035046341
Getting tossed around by Metronome (this and the mew sets are infinitely annoying btw):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2035372032
A more standard game showing how the Kommo-win comes together and shows the defensive capabilities of Pecha and Giratina (this older variant was based around Necrozma who's like, way worse than I thought): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2034702581
Getting tossed around by Metronome (this and the mew sets are infinitely annoying btw):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2035372032
A more standard game showing how the Kommo-win comes together and shows the defensive capabilities of Pecha and Giratina (this older variant was based around Necrozma who's like, way worse than I thought): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2034702581
Now that I have written my peace on this fun little team and spread the gospel of Kommo-o once more I can get back to not having to jam games of this meta between every waking moment of my day.
Yes it should