Metagame Fortemons

[ShuckleSandwich]

Hi just swinging in to drop my team, which has prospered in the wake of the Lokix ban. It's super HO and momentum-focused, but I think it's also profiting strongly off the lack of restriction vis-a-vis Draining Kiss and Body Press.

THE TEAM

https://pokepast.es/ce6b928aa66e8659

Serperior @ leafstorm
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Giga Drain
- Glare
- Dragon Tail

Serp is great in this meta, and Dragon Tail lets it get free +2s against your opponent's Glowkings and H!Goodras. It's a tremendous momentum tool on a mon that loves momentum. Glare is a last ditch move, usually if you're forced to sac as Serp is pretty frail and in some cases rather expendable.

Heatran @ magmastorm
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

This guy is Serp's best friend and a fantastic stopgap against all manner of things. It being a trapper with taunt means it can occasionally kill things it has absolutely no right to do, such as CM Primarina. Wisp is usually used against your opponent going H!Samurott but obviously is great. This thing is SpDef cuz it has no recovery and works best as a Volc/Iron Moth/Fire-type remover anyway.

Cobalion @ bodypress
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Iron Defense
- Aura Sphere
- Iron Head
- Vacuum Wave

This thing is crazy. Speedy +2 mixed sweeper with great physical bulk after 1 move. Not much more needs to be said, if the fire types are gone then this thing can run wild.

Latias (F) @ drainingkiss
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Agility
- Calm Mind
- Aura Sphere

This thing is equally and oppositely crazy. Originally it was Draining Kiss CM Clef but Magic Guard is meh in such an offensive meta. You could definitely run Mist Ball over SP but on the off chance you get into a setup war SP provides complete insurance. Max bulk is used because you're basically going to live forever if you get off an agility/cm in the right situation. Teams just fold to this thing, it's really hard to OHKO (especially with the indirect nerf to Knock Off this meta) and its coverage is all it needs. You could SpA investment over HP/Def to have a chance to ohko Iron Valiant after a single agility with SP but it's personal taste really. I like the bulk.

Regieleki @ rapidspin
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Electro Ball
- Ancient Power

This is the teammate who's most often "useless", in the sense that it gets forced out by all ground types. In return you get a blazing fast rapid spinner who can either snowball or net you momentum. You could argue that volt switch is the better item but I think there are times where you just need to eliminate hazards at all costs. Might be running this thing wrong though, notes welcome.

Samurott-Hisui @ ceaselessedge
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Sucker Punch
- Flip Turn
- Razor Shell

Yeah it's old news but H!Samurott is crazy. Either a suicide lead or emergency revenge killer depending on how well you match up with the opponent. Double prio is just so much fun.

Anyway, that's the team, hopefully you like it and I'd love to hear thoughts!

 

[okispokis]

Cobalion @ bodypress
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Iron Defense
- Aura Sphere
- Iron Head
- Vacuum Wave

Wouldn’t Sacred Sword be better than Aura Sphere? It’s stronger (90 vs 80 BP) and has the perk of ignoring opposing Defense boosts.

 

[ShuckleSandwich]

Wouldn’t Sacred Sword be better than Aura Sphere? It’s stronger (90 vs 80 BP) and has the perk of ignoring opposing Defense boosts.

There's definitely an argument to be made for Sacred Sword, and I've ran both, but generally I've found Aura Sphere to be stronger. This is imo for a couple of reasons:
- Aura Sphere OHKOs max defence Cobalion on switchin whereas Sacred Sword doesn't and forces you into a Vacuum Wave speed tie.
- It improves Cobalion's matchup against the metal birds, which this team can struggle with if eleki is gone.
But yeah, it's pretty fine margins. It may not be optimal.

 

[AquaticPanic]

With Body Press mons I often find running Special moves can be optimal due to burns. Burns don't lower your Attack stat, but rather the damage of your Physical moves. So in this instance, if the Cobalion gets burned, Sacred Sword would have its BP halved while Aura Sphere would be intact. Granted, on this instance its a Steel mon anyways so a good portion of mons that usually run burning moves would likely defeat it before getting a burn anyways, but just speaking generally about BPress and not just Cobalion (And could still be relevant for some Pult or Sinistcha matchups)

 

[Girl Anachronism]

Can't decide between Regieleki sets.

#1.
Regieleki @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Volt Switch
- Explosion
- Extreme Speed
- Electro Ball

vs

#2.
Regieleki @ Volt Switch
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Hyper Beam
- Extreme Speed
- Electro Ball


#2 can pivot around Excadrill and have +2 priority pivots but #1 gets progressively stronger Electro Balls and does more damage while hazard clearing. idk

 

[Zenpoppa]

I want to get in on the Samurott-H hate wagon for a second. This Pokemon should have been banned or at least looked at from the jump. 1.5x damage on all moves, 2 strong priority moves, reliable pivot move all while getting up spikes with ZERO drawback in a metagame where the whole point is to have a moves take up your item slot.
Quaquaval isn't even a check because Samurott-H is almost always clicking Flip Turn. If anything Poliwrath is a better check because it actually stops Flip Turn. Just restrict Ceaseless Edge from the item slot and Samurott-H is actually somewhat balanced because it has to actually click CE to get a spike up.

 

[ponchlake]

Hello all, we now have a banner thanks to the amazingly talented IMakeNoSense. You've likely seen their work before, as they're the artist behind the banners for several other OM's like Frantic Fusions or Force of the Fallen. Again, I wanted to give a massive shoutout and thank you to IMakeNoSense for the time they've spent on this on behalf of the Fortemons community and council. You've knocked it out the park with this one. You were an absolute pleasure to work with.

If you want a brief explanation of the idea behind it: I just wanted something Mystery Dungeon themed since in that game Mail is a pretty big part of the game, and the main thing you hold in Fortemons for Fortes is exactly that: Mail. Ignore the fact that 4/6 of the mons present are banned.. The original idea came the first time around Fortemons was OMotM. At the time, our big 5 was Meowscarada, Azumarill, Iron Treads, Skeledirge, and Dragapult, so those were the mons I wanted present. IMakeNoSense added the Torkoal to help fill up empty space. Please bask in its glory, and once again thank you to IMakeNoSense for the time and work they've put into this. We greatly appreciate you.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

View attachment 596234

Hello all, we now have a banner thanks to the amazingly talented IMakeNoSense. You've likely seen their work before, as they're the artist behind the banners for several other OM's like Frantic Fusions or Force of the Fallen. Again, I wanted to give a massive shoutout and thank you to IMakeNoSense for the time they've spent on this on behalf of the Fortemons community and council. You've knocked it out the park with this one. You were an absolute pleasure to work with.

If you want a brief explanation of the idea behind it: I just wanted something Mystery Dungeon themed since in that game Mail is a pretty big part of the game, and the main thing you hold in Fortemons for Fortes is exactly that: Mail. Ignore the fact that 4/6 of the mons present are banned.. The original idea came the first time around Fortemons was OMotM. At the time, our big 5 was Meowscarada, Azumarill, Iron Treads, Skeledirge, and Dragapult, so those were the mons I wanted present. IMakeNoSense added the Torkoal to help fill up empty space. Please bask in its glory, and once again thank you to IMakeNoSense for the time and work they've put into this. We greatly appreciate you.

Fixed that for you:)

(only joking, it's a beautiful banner & great work. I imagine the art was requested before most of those bans)

 

[Conflux123]

Needs to be updated, I think u-turn is banned.

 

[Conflux123]

Is Tidy Up banned on Maushold?

 

[Cratersmash]

Is Tidy Up banned on Maushold?

No, but only attacking moves can be used as items.

 

[Conflux123]

No, but only attacking moves can be used as items.

Okay so that's what it was. Tysm I'm like really really new to fortemons, played like two games so I know basically nothing. Love the fusion fo the quagsire and Mega Swampert in your pfp btw.

 

[IMakeNoSense]

View attachment 596307

Fixed that for you:)

(only joking, it's a beautiful banner & great work. I imagine the art was requested before most of those bans)

Monorb’s got you covered don’t you even WORRY about it.

(can i even post this here?)

 

[Girl Anachronism]

(these were pretty terrible showcases of Riolu, because who needs gimmicks when you can wipe the floor with overpowered pokemon)

heres some of my riolu games (using an almost identical team)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2043354299
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2043364103-xubegqvdq2o54fyx1ovbxsyfg1a461xpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2043425721

you can play really bad (like i did here) and still manage to win by making like 15 predictions in a row with riolu, its like gimmicky kingambit

it pairs really well with hamurott; spikes mean extra chip every time it phazes something. samu can flipturn to riolu, then riolu can prankster copycat flipturn out again, phazing the opponent in the process and getting more spike chip. not to mention you get to choose your switch-in after your opponent has already been phazed. it's ridiculous

 

[ryangregory78]

Samurott-Hisui @ Ceaseless Edge
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Throat Chop / Knock Off
- Liquidation
- Sucker Punch / Aqua Jet
- Flip Turn

Probably a broken record by now but I just hopped on the ladder for the first time in a while and this has gotta be the funniest mon I've ever used. STAB Sharpness-boosted switch move that sets Spikes sounds like something a ten-year old would come up with, but here it is right now, and it is glorious. What makes this mon really special outside of the hilarity of every single move being Ceaseless Edge is just how easy he makes keeping hazards up all game. Both Exca and Eleki fucking die to one Liquidation (of course Eleki will always force you out unless you're insane, but goes to show that it can never come in against Hamu), and Quavo just gets Flip Turned on and lets you bring in whatever the hell you want to blow it up. Pair him with Zapdos, the Latis, Val, Serp, or genuinely anything that scares out Quavo and that thing will never spin no matter how hard it tries. Normally I would be raving about how this guy's Knock Off is an affront to God, but the fact that just about everything has Mail makes Throat Chop generally a better option in my opinion. Not to mention this thing gets strongass STAB prio in Sucker Punch (a Sucker Punch that sets Spikes, mind you), and the far weaker but more consistent Aqua Jet, both of which let you compensate for your admittedly pretty shitty Speed and pick off threats like Pult, Volc, Latios, and effectively anything after good enough chip, which of course isn't hard to come by when you set Spikes by breathing. All that said, this guy is absolutely ridiculous and I am all here for it.

 

[CatsAreCute]

heres some of my riolu games (using an almost identical team)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2043354299
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2043364103-xubegqvdq2o54fyx1ovbxsyfg1a461xpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2043425721

you can play really bad (like i did here) and still manage to win by making like 15 predictions in a row with riolu, its like gimmicky kingambit

it pairs really well with hamurott; spikes mean extra chip every time it phazes something. samu can flipturn to riolu, then riolu can prankster copycat flipturn out again, phazing the opponent in the process and getting more spike chip. not to mention you get to choose your switch-in after your opponent has already been phazed. it's ridiculous

Out of curiosity (and not because I recently lost a 4v1 against it, no sir not me), how do you counter these Prankster Riolu.

 

[Girl Anachronism]

Out of curiosity (and not because I recently lost a 4v1 against it, no sir not me), how do you counter these Prankster Riolu.

anything faster than it with +1 priority, anything with +2 priority, any dark-type bc theyre immune to prankster. those are the main ones
also more niche ones such as cursed body procs, taunt, infiltrator, psychic terrain
regenerator mons heal off the hazard damage every time theyre forced out

besides that just try to keep the opponent from getting hazards up

 

[Dark Koopatrol]

anything faster than it with +1 priority, anything with +2 priority, any dark-type bc theyre immune to prankster. those are the main ones
also more niche ones such as cursed body procs, taunt, infiltrator, psychic terrain
regenerator mons heal off the hazard damage every time theyre forced out

besides that just try to keep the opponent from getting hazards up

Along with these, I have found that Rocky Helmet Corviknight has been helpful since it doesn't take much damage from moves typically used by it and forces it to take chip damage, and hazards limits the amount of times it can come in. Simply outplaying can also work since it can't Copycat a move it used so as long as you don't attack the turn it uses Protect you'll be fine since it can only use Substitute so many times, though I've also found that Riolu often either switches out quickly after coming in or used a pivot to get it in.

 

[Toxtection]

Along with these, I have found that Rocky Helmet Corviknight has been helpful since it doesn't take much damage from moves typically used by it and forces it to take chip damage, and hazards limits the amount of times it can come in. Simply outplaying can also work since it can't Copycat a move it used so as long as you don't attack the turn it uses Protect you'll be fine since it can only use Substitute so many times, though I've also found that Riolu often either switches out quickly after coming in or used a pivot to get it in.

I found that Riolu's biggest problem is how matchup dependent it is. In a good matchup ie no priority and no dark types, just don't make a big mistake and you win easily. On the other hand in a bad matchup ie multiple dark types and multiple priority mons, you lose unstoppably unless they make a big mistake. I'd say a decent chunk of games (maybe 30-40%) are decided on team preview

Oh and then there's those games where Regieleki fails to hit 2 Hyper Beams in a row on Lando-I/Sandy Shocks, gets KO'd and then you lose bc you didn't have it to clean up late game

 

[big miike]

Here's the team I used to peak #1 on the ForteMons ladder if anyone wants to use it: https://pokepast.es/11076dc847bf4961

Samurott-H hazard stack with a strong defensive backbone in dual rocky helmet mandibuzz + clod. Regieleki for electric spam and best hazard removal in the game. Dragapult and cobalion as big threats that can clean up late game. The idea is to wear down the opponent over time with hazards, helmet damage, and volt-turn until there's an opening for someone to sweep.

And yes I agree with everyone saying Samurott-H is broken - it has some drawbacks but overall it's way too good

 

[ShuckleSandwich]

With Body Press mons I often find running Special moves can be optimal due to burns. Burns don't lower your Attack stat, but rather the damage of your Physical moves. So in this instance, if the Cobalion gets burned, Sacred Sword would have its BP halved while Aura Sphere would be intact. Granted, on this instance its a Steel mon anyways so a good portion of mons that usually run burning moves would likely defeat it before getting a burn anyways, but just speaking generally about BPress and not just Cobalion (And could still be relevant for some Pult or Sinistcha matchups)

Right, yeah, I can't believe I forgot to mention it's way better against random burns and also most ipress mons run no SpDef investment so it beats them more easily too

 

[Schpoonman]

I found that Riolu's biggest problem is how matchup dependent it is. In a good matchup ie no priority and no dark types, just don't make a big mistake and you win easily. On the other hand in a bad matchup ie multiple dark types and multiple priority mons, you lose unstoppably unless they make a big mistake. I'd say a decent chunk of games (maybe 30-40%) are decided on team preview

Sounds like a tremendous match-up fish that we should smoke.

 

[Samtendo09]

With Body Press mons I often find running Special moves can be optimal due to burns. Burns don't lower your Attack stat, but rather the damage of your Physical moves. So in this instance, if the Cobalion gets burned, Sacred Sword would have its BP halved while Aura Sphere would be intact. Granted, on this instance its a Steel mon anyways so a good portion of mons that usually run burning moves would likely defeat it before getting a burn anyways, but just speaking generally about BPress and not just Cobalion (And could still be relevant for some Pult or Sinistcha matchups)

It is also part of why Archaludon got banned from Fortemons, between ignoring SpA drop from Draco Meteor, benefitting Stamina to make it’s Body Press item more potent, having Iron Defense on top of that, and a variety of coverage including Electric-type moves for the Flying-type Pokémon. Having a more special oriented learnset means that Burn is almost a non-threat to Archaludon. It helps that Archaludon is already Tier A (as of this writing) in OU.

The flimsy 65 Special Defense alone won’t stop it from wrecking havoc in Fortmons, and 85 Base Speed, while average, allows it to mercilessly outspeed and wallbreak most wall Pokémon, including those that wield Toxic but can’t use it on Arch due to it’s Steel-type.

 

[All Lice]

Dropping a fun little set now that Gren is unbanned

Dollar Store
Greninja-Bond (M) @ retaliate
Ability: Battle Bond
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot/Water Shuriken/Sludge Wave
- Dark Pulse

Basic idea is that Gren can come in late game after a mon gets KO'd and use the retaliate boost to trigger Battle Bond and clean up with the boosts. This would be super fun and maybe broken if we actually had Ash Gren but it's still fine as a cleaner.
Also did you know that Diancie, a 2 foot tall mound of rocks and crystals weighs less than 20 pounds??? Always check your grass knot damage before blindly clicking, it might save a life...........

 

[Showsni]

Talking of gimmicks, pairing Endeavour with self KO forte moves is kind of silly: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2044185220-fk0ymtk89a8ix3l5atkiqs8o7sd9x20pw