Cetitan was what I thought of when I said sheer force. I didn't know Kleavor had sheer force after the one incident.
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Metagame Frantic Fusions | Survey @ Post #484!
- Thread starter hidin
- Start date
Any thoughts on my team? I am thinking about trading something for a wall setter to pivot, but any tips are welcomed
Unburden Haxorus
Levitate Hisuiian Goodra - For some reason, image could not be loaded in PokePaste
Drought Walking Wake - good defense sun setter for Clorophyll Ceruledge and Protosynthesis Enamorus
Chlorophyll Ceruledge based on Leafeon
Protosynthesis Enamorus-Therian - not very sure if picked up good ability, but must have a Fairy to counter Dragons
Unburden Belly Drum Chesnaught - not sure if I distributed EVs correctly tho... Thhis guy reaches 1450 atk but lacks SPD to Belly Drum
Unburden Haxorus
Levitate Hisuiian Goodra - For some reason, image could not be loaded in PokePaste
Drought Walking Wake - good defense sun setter for Clorophyll Ceruledge and Protosynthesis Enamorus
Chlorophyll Ceruledge based on Leafeon
Protosynthesis Enamorus-Therian - not very sure if picked up good ability, but must have a Fairy to counter Dragons
Unburden Belly Drum Chesnaught - not sure if I distributed EVs correctly tho... Thhis guy reaches 1450 atk but lacks SPD to Belly Drum
Reminder to ease on the one liners and such, would like some metagame discussion instead of some back to back discussion of nothing. Anyway, here's what I've been thinking about the meta at the moment after laddering for a good bit:
(
+ 
)
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+ 
)
(
/ 
/ 
+ 
/ 
/ 
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Rain has been something I find quite annoying, fusing already strong Water-type breakers with donors like Haxorus, Baxcalibur, both Basculegion forms, or Overqwil make them very hard to handle unless using a dedicated Water Absorb user like Scream Tail + Volcanion or sturdy Water resists like Goodra or Walking Wake. The usual outplay argument could be used when it comes to facing rain but in this format I don't even think that's the case, because even with the correct building and play, rain will still find a way to be a nuisance.
(
+ 
/ 
)
I still don't know why we let this one slip through, it simply is Valiant-lite and is arguably just as obnoxious as Iron Valiant. There's very little counterplay to Enamorus outside of Iron Moth + Azelf, Heatran + Uxie, Blissey + x, and Corviknight + Daschbun, all of which except the latter can be exploited with other moves like Psychic, Focus Blast, and Play Rough. Don't really see how this lasted long or why people on ladder just forget it exists; definitely a top 3 threat in the meta and should be prepared for while it lasts.
(
/ 
/ 
+ 
)
( + 
/ 
)
I categorized these two together since they are both strong physical fusions. Unburden carries Hariyama / Cetitan / Chesnaught + Sneasler and is obviously broken because without it they would be nothing more but niche cheese strats; other Pokemon can abuse Unburden like Flamigo + Sneasler on terrain and are also very strong. Baxcalibur + Scizor line is another strong physical fusion because of how absurd SD / DD + Icicle Spear and Ice Shard sets are with Technician, albeit losing out on your old burn immunity but that's better donated to another Pokemon anyway. I do think counterplay is a bit limited and especially towards sets that can fit the Ice / Dragon / Ground move combo, but there might be some more exploration to do.
(
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/ 
/ Any defensive Pokemon + 
)
( / 
/ / 
/ Any defensive Pokemon + 
)
In my opinion, I don't feel like Poison Heal or Regenerator are problematic; I'd go as far to say that they allow for good defensive backbones to be formed against this highly offensive metagame. While yes, they can be obnoxious at times, it really isn't hard to build with natural pressure against common defensive cores, and I'm a firm believer in that at the moment until some real heinous shit is unveiled.
Tame, but not really tame. Okay, but not really okay. Counterplay exists, but counterplay kinda doesn't exist. Schrodinger's fusion I say!
That's what I think about the metagame at the moment, do note we council are aware of red flags and there will be a voting slate sometime this week. Have some teams as well in exchange for reading:
- LO Libero Dragonite + Cinderace BO
Note: Expert Belt and HDB can work just as fine, but I like Life Orb better to be a better clicker. Morning Sun > Toxic Spikes on Iron Moth can also be used for a better Enamorus MU
- SFLO Hoopa + Tauros Webs
Note: ALWAYS CLICK CIRCLE THROW WITH SPIDOPS IF AN OPPOSING BAXCALIBUR IS LEAD. 36 Speed EVs on Tusk let it outspeed Timid Enamorus + Braviary-H at +1
- Sun
- Rain
That's all from me, bye now!
(
+ )(
+ )(
/ / + / / )Rain has been something I find quite annoying, fusing already strong Water-type breakers with donors like Haxorus, Baxcalibur, both Basculegion forms, or Overqwil make them very hard to handle unless using a dedicated Water Absorb user like Scream Tail + Volcanion or sturdy Water resists like Goodra or Walking Wake. The usual outplay argument could be used when it comes to facing rain but in this format I don't even think that's the case, because even with the correct building and play, rain will still find a way to be a nuisance.
(
+ / )I still don't know why we let this one slip through, it simply is Valiant-lite and is arguably just as obnoxious as Iron Valiant. There's very little counterplay to Enamorus outside of Iron Moth + Azelf, Heatran + Uxie, Blissey + x, and Corviknight + Daschbun, all of which except the latter can be exploited with other moves like Psychic, Focus Blast, and Play Rough. Don't really see how this lasted long or why people on ladder just forget it exists; definitely a top 3 threat in the meta and should be prepared for while it lasts.
(
/ / + )(
+ / )I categorized these two together since they are both strong physical fusions. Unburden carries Hariyama / Cetitan / Chesnaught + Sneasler and is obviously broken because without it they would be nothing more but niche cheese strats; other Pokemon can abuse Unburden like Flamigo + Sneasler on terrain and are also very strong. Baxcalibur + Scizor line is another strong physical fusion because of how absurd SD / DD + Icicle Spear and Ice Shard sets are with Technician, albeit losing out on your old burn immunity but that's better donated to another Pokemon anyway. I do think counterplay is a bit limited and especially towards sets that can fit the Ice / Dragon / Ground move combo, but there might be some more exploration to do.
(
/ / / Any defensive Pokemon + )(
/ / / / Any defensive Pokemon + )In my opinion, I don't feel like Poison Heal or Regenerator are problematic; I'd go as far to say that they allow for good defensive backbones to be formed against this highly offensive metagame. While yes, they can be obnoxious at times, it really isn't hard to build with natural pressure against common defensive cores, and I'm a firm believer in that at the moment until some real heinous shit is unveiled.
Tame, but not really tame. Okay, but not really okay. Counterplay exists, but counterplay kinda doesn't exist. Schrodinger's fusion I say!
That's what I think about the metagame at the moment, do note we council are aware of red flags and there will be a voting slate sometime this week. Have some teams as well in exchange for reading:
- LO Libero Dragonite + Cinderace BONote: Expert Belt and HDB can work just as fine, but I like Life Orb better to be a better clicker. Morning Sun > Toxic Spikes on Iron Moth can also be used for a better Enamorus MU
- SFLO Hoopa + Tauros WebsNote: ALWAYS CLICK CIRCLE THROW WITH SPIDOPS IF AN OPPOSING BAXCALIBUR IS LEAD. 36 Speed EVs on Tusk let it outspeed Timid Enamorus + Braviary-H at +1
- Sun - RainThat's all from me, bye now!
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Reminder to ease on the one liners and such, would like some metagame discussion instead of some back to back discussion of nothing. Anyway, here's what I've been thinking about the meta at the moment after laddering for a good bit:
(
(
(
Rain has been something I find quite annoying, fusing already strong Water-type breakers with donors like Haxorus, Baxcalibur, both Basculegion forms, or Overqwil make them very hard to handle unless using a dedicated Water Absorb user like Scream Tail + Volcanion or sturdy Water resists like Goodra or Walking Wake. The usual outplay argument could be used when it comes to facing rain but in this format I don't even think that's the case, because even with the correct building and play, rain will still find a way to be a nuisance.
(
I still don't know why we let this one slip through, it simply is Valiant-lite and is arguably just as obnoxious as Iron Valiant. There's very little counterplay to Enamorus outside of Iron Moth + Azelf, Heatran + Uxie, Blissey + x, and Corviknight + Daschbun, all of which except the latter can be exploited with other moves like Psychic, Focus Blast, and Play Rough. Don't really see how this lasted long or why people on ladder just forget it exists; definitely a top 3 threat in the meta and should be prepared for while it lasts.
(
(
I categorized these two together since they are both strong physical fusions. Unburden carries Hariyama / Cetitan / Chesnaught + Sneasler and is obviously broken because without it they would be nothing more but niche cheese strats; other Pokemon can abuse Unburden like Flamigo + Sneasler on terrain and are also very strong. Baxcalibur + Scizor line is another strong physical fusion because of how absurd SD / DD + Icicle Spear and Ice Shard sets are with Technician, albeit losing out on your old burn immunity but that's better donated to another Pokemon anyway. I do think counterplay is a bit limited and especially towards sets that can fit the Ice / Dragon / Ground move combo, but there might be some more exploration to do.
(
(
In my opinion, I don't feel like Poison Heal or Regenerator are problematic; I'd go as far to say that they allow for good defensive backbones to be formed against this highly offensive metagame. While yes, they can be obnoxious at times, it really isn't hard to build with natural pressure against common defensive cores, and I'm a firm believer in that at the moment until some real heinous shit is unveiled.
Tame, but not really tame. Okay, but not really okay. Counterplay exists, but counterplay kinda doesn't exist. Schrodinger's fusion I say!
That's what I think about the metagame at the moment, do note we council are aware of red flags and there will be a voting slate sometime this week. Have some teams as well in exchange for reading:
Note: Expert Belt and HDB can work just as fine, but I like Life Orb better to be a better clicker. Morning Sun > Toxic Spikes on Iron Moth can also be used for a better Enamorus MU
Note: ALWAYS CLICK CIRCLE THROW WITH SPIDOPS IF AN OPPOSING BAXCALIBUR IS LEAD. 36 Speed EVs on Tusk let it outspeed Timid Enamorus + Braviary-H at +1
That's all from me, bye now!
I find it concerning that in this post Ghold is nowhere to be seen in this post
After a lot of regen spamming my loses are mostly attributed to terrible hax (more chances to get critted at crucial times the longer games go), Big brokens bax. enam and to a lesser extent dd phantom force pult when i lose my blob, a few missplays and hazard stack. Gholdengo is a fantastic enabler for hazard stacks as a spinner, and cruicially, fusions such as uxie give it enough bulk to shrug off knocks from the one spinner Big Donphan, whos often kinda stuck with a fusion that doesnt give that much attack like tornt, so it just eats 20% from knocks every time. On top of that gholdie gives Good as Gold when fused with, so that you can block fogs from corb and nothing else bc this gen sucks and we have no hazard removal. Just give it to anything that can take a bbird or a bpress, run some mons to stack the hazards, and dont run into other lowkey broken Mbounce, which is broken for all the reasons its broken in aaa which is that it makes hazards a MU fish, and youre gholden. Just drown your oppo in hazards. If i was the greatest player of all time i would somehow combine all these brokens into a horrible horrible hazard stack regen spam team, but i cant stack the regens as hard if i have to run a levitate gholdie+a GaG mon + Some safeties such as a phealer to beat opposing phealers and a unaware mon.
Ghold is the lynchpin of hazard stack, and should drowning in hazards be deemed too much, the one to target for a ban
I hit number 1 on the ladder and I have some stuff I observed
Regenerator is incredibly strong, in this meta game, which isn't inherently broken. But the fact is that you can run multiple. You need at least 2 Regenerators minimum for a team that isn't Hyper Offense.
These three are the worst offenders, especially great tusk. It's on most teams because it's crucial for hazard control. Blissey invalidates any special wall breaker period unless you run mixed. And corviknight is just free momentum every time. (Unaware is also common for Blissey as well)
+
This mf right here is also incredibly annoying, but kinda needed for balance teams. It prevents easy spins from tusk and "counters" most baxcalibur sets. It checks allot of pokemon actually, with max defense you'd Tank things you'd never imagine. It barely lives quaquaval + beartic banded wave crash in the rain from full. It lives mystical fire from enamorus + h-braviary from full. And it could take an earthquake in a pinch from bax
baxcalibur + haxorus. Speaking of which
+ or
Almost Any Ability prepared me for this, baxclibur + scizor or "Baxzor" hits so goddamn hard. Technican boosted loaded dice icicle spear hits way too hard even in neutral. In AAA it was crazy, but now he gets an even higher attack stat and speed?? Corviknight cannot switch in into icicle spear, nor can great tusk, and gholdengo needs to be full or else it's a 2 hit (10 hit) ko. Ice shard also gets beefed up, so swords dance sets just delete any non-uaware pokemon (who ALSO get slapped). But it gets worse; baxcalibur + haxorus or "Haxcalibur" Is the single most threatening set up sweeper. Unaware can't save you, Gholdengo can't save you. Bulky waters can't save you. Only one pokemon I seen could take it on, slowbro + cloyster, with iron defense it could take it on. Aside from that, baxcalibur is near uncheckable and definitely needs a suspect check.
+
+
+
These are the main "click one button" abusers, enamorus is the worst offenders and has no reason being here. unless you have very obscure pokemon fusions, you can't check this mon. Superpower for Blissey and heatran and mystical Fire for gholdengo. (It also does over 30% to gholdengo with moonblast) Best so far is like Moltres + Anybody, yet moonblast does so much damage, its like it doesn't even resist it? Get this genie outta here. Aside from that, dragapult is also devious, I didn't see it as much as I thought but its definitely a good mon. It's fast as hell, hits pretty damn hard. It's basically does what it does, outspeed and drop dracos. I don't think it's "broken". Mixed sets are pretty crazy though but in regular dragapult fashion it doesn't do nearly as damage as Dragon Dance sets or Adaptability. Purifying Salts also shut it down very hard, but as the metagame develops I can see pult rising through the ranks very quickly.
+
+
+ 
Now for what I think it's definitely a broken teamstyle is hazard stack + good as gold. The only relevant defogger is corv, slap GoG on either bird and you stop that. Okay, what about spin? Well gholdengo + Uxie stops spin as well, and so you end up with Hella hazards on your side unable to do anything then watch as you take 40% for switching in. Add more bulky regen mons and some knock offs and legitimately unstoppable. It's incredibly obnoxious and toxic, stall teams with these cores are incredibly difficult to break. As they usually have specific pokemon to beat their checks. I ran into thief gholdengo that stole my boots on blissey and then i lost to moltress because I'm taking more damage then healing off. You would need to run scrappy great tusk to beat the team (which isn't very good anyway) Good as Gold definitely needs to be checked on, its a broken ability that definitely shouldn't be allowed here. (Let's not talk about the millions other sets you could use with GoG)
Poison heal is kinda balanced idk, I never had a problem with it. The main abuser is garg but there's a huge downside. Aside from attack brelooms stats are kinda shit, to the standards of some defense mon, it's below average. Garg gets two hit ko'd pretty easily but allot of attacks. now obviously once gliscor returns to its glory it will be very problematic, but for now its pretty fine. Garg isn't really oppressive, tusk sits on it all day, and substitute just kills it even more.
+
+ 
+
ah rain, truly the most broken weather of all time, drizzle shouldn't be here tbh. Quaquaval hits so hard it's not even funny. This is only time I seen beartic actually do something of use, Wake also hits pretty hard too. Corviknight with drizzle acts like a pseudo enamorus check (let's not talk about moonblast calc) and u-turn allows these abusers to roam free. There's nothing much aside from getting two to three free kills with quaquaval and finishing the team off with zapdos. Rain is Broken.
Here's the teams that got me here:
- Triple Regen + Hamarott/Gholdengo hazard stack Stall.
Last slot can be replaced with moltres if you really wanna deny hazards.
- Double Regenvest + Specs Adaptability Dragapult Bulky Balance
Garg is Water Absorb to not lose to rain immediately.
-Ting-lu/Gholdengo hazard stack + Sheer Force enamorus, Haxcalibur, and Sub DD technican dragapult HO
Regenerator is incredibly strong, in this meta game, which isn't inherently broken. But the fact is that you can run multiple. You need at least 2 Regenerators minimum for a team that isn't Hyper Offense.
These three are the worst offenders, especially great tusk. It's on most teams because it's crucial for hazard control. Blissey invalidates any special wall breaker period unless you run mixed. And corviknight is just free momentum every time. (Unaware is also common for Blissey as well)
+ This mf right here is also incredibly annoying, but kinda needed for balance teams. It prevents easy spins from tusk and "counters" most baxcalibur sets. It checks allot of pokemon actually, with max defense you'd Tank things you'd never imagine. It barely lives quaquaval + beartic banded wave crash in the rain from full. It lives mystical fire from enamorus + h-braviary from full. And it could take an earthquake in a pinch from bax
baxcalibur + haxorus. Speaking of which
+ or Almost Any Ability prepared me for this, baxclibur + scizor or "Baxzor" hits so goddamn hard. Technican boosted loaded dice icicle spear hits way too hard even in neutral. In AAA it was crazy, but now he gets an even higher attack stat and speed?? Corviknight cannot switch in into icicle spear, nor can great tusk, and gholdengo needs to be full or else it's a 2 hit (10 hit) ko. Ice shard also gets beefed up, so swords dance sets just delete any non-uaware pokemon (who ALSO get slapped). But it gets worse; baxcalibur + haxorus or "Haxcalibur" Is the single most threatening set up sweeper. Unaware can't save you, Gholdengo can't save you. Bulky waters can't save you. Only one pokemon I seen could take it on, slowbro + cloyster, with iron defense it could take it on. Aside from that, baxcalibur is near uncheckable and definitely needs a suspect check.
+ + + These are the main "click one button" abusers, enamorus is the worst offenders and has no reason being here. unless you have very obscure pokemon fusions, you can't check this mon. Superpower for Blissey and heatran and mystical Fire for gholdengo. (It also does over 30% to gholdengo with moonblast) Best so far is like Moltres + Anybody, yet moonblast does so much damage, its like it doesn't even resist it? Get this genie outta here. Aside from that, dragapult is also devious, I didn't see it as much as I thought but its definitely a good mon. It's fast as hell, hits pretty damn hard. It's basically does what it does, outspeed and drop dracos. I don't think it's "broken". Mixed sets are pretty crazy though but in regular dragapult fashion it doesn't do nearly as damage as Dragon Dance sets or Adaptability. Purifying Salts also shut it down very hard, but as the metagame develops I can see pult rising through the ranks very quickly.
+ + + Now for what I think it's definitely a broken teamstyle is hazard stack + good as gold. The only relevant defogger is corv, slap GoG on either bird and you stop that. Okay, what about spin? Well gholdengo + Uxie stops spin as well, and so you end up with Hella hazards on your side unable to do anything then watch as you take 40% for switching in. Add more bulky regen mons and some knock offs and legitimately unstoppable. It's incredibly obnoxious and toxic, stall teams with these cores are incredibly difficult to break. As they usually have specific pokemon to beat their checks. I ran into thief gholdengo that stole my boots on blissey and then i lost to moltress because I'm taking more damage then healing off. You would need to run scrappy great tusk to beat the team (which isn't very good anyway) Good as Gold definitely needs to be checked on, its a broken ability that definitely shouldn't be allowed here. (Let's not talk about the millions other sets you could use with GoG)
Poison heal is kinda balanced idk, I never had a problem with it. The main abuser is garg but there's a huge downside. Aside from attack brelooms stats are kinda shit, to the standards of some defense mon, it's below average. Garg gets two hit ko'd pretty easily but allot of attacks. now obviously once gliscor returns to its glory it will be very problematic, but for now its pretty fine. Garg isn't really oppressive, tusk sits on it all day, and substitute just kills it even more.
+ + + ah rain, truly the most broken weather of all time, drizzle shouldn't be here tbh. Quaquaval hits so hard it's not even funny. This is only time I seen beartic actually do something of use, Wake also hits pretty hard too. Corviknight with drizzle acts like a pseudo enamorus check (let's not talk about moonblast calc) and u-turn allows these abusers to roam free. There's nothing much aside from getting two to three free kills with quaquaval and finishing the team off with zapdos. Rain is Broken.
Here's the teams that got me here:
- Triple Regen + Hamarott/Gholdengo hazard stack Stall. Last slot can be replaced with moltres if you really wanna deny hazards.
- Double Regenvest + Specs Adaptability Dragapult Bulky BalanceGarg is Water Absorb to not lose to rain immediately.
-Ting-lu/Gholdengo hazard stack + Sheer Force enamorus, Haxcalibur, and Sub DD technican dragapult HO
I played a ton of games while locked but didn't notice this, I thought it was just a client-side issue and that the stats did indeed apply but was disappointed when I did some testing (in chal). Crazy that I still won most of the time
To not make this a one-liner, I'll discuss some niche mons that I think are nonetheless quite usable
+ This is the type of mon that you don't see very often but you know you're screwed when you see one. I don't know how you're supposed to wall this without Unaware or something stupid like Armor Tail Enamorus
+ /
Its entire niche is checking bax consistently with no fear of Crunch or moldy EQ and being the only mon bulky enough to check bax without needing its ability, meaning it can answer moldy bax too and run regen. You also obliterate roaring moon but that's about it.Note - In the damage calc only, Mold Breaker ignores ruin abilities. This is a known bug and does not happen in actual gameplay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9anythinggoes-1936564578-6p3lefadpxgwkfa2k989zqquu8hqvsvpw
+ 
//
Very difficult to stop without phazing, Haze, Encore or Kingambit, Calm Mind + Stored Power eventually breaks through every non-dark-typeThe annoying part is that you don't run into hazard stack often at ALL, meaning you never prepare for it and it's beyond unbeatable when you're unfortunate enough to face it, on the other hand it would be really sad to lose Gholdengo as a base, which is much more common and consistent
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Just to add to the Unburden Point, Just like Hariyama,I don't play this meta, and I'm not entirely planning to, however I heard this was AAA lite and I saw some funky stuff legal that I'd just like to put here.
115/177/117/88/106/103
Scizor (Baxcalibur) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Dragon Dance / Swords Dance
- Glaive Rush
- Earthquake
Outside of EE Steels seems extremely unwallable. Then again, I took a quick scroll through this thread and half the things here look insanely unwallable. Please ban Simple and Stakeout why are they legal who thought it was ok wtf. Alternatively Dragons Maw (Regidrago), that moldy Haxorus set, Simple SD/DD (Numel) and Tinted Lens (Lokix) also seem really stupid.
144/152/75/50/80/80
Sneasler (Hariyama) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Headlong Rush / Knock Off / Heavy Slam
You run Unaware or you lose the game gg. 80 base speed means even with an Adamant nature it hits 518 speed after a Belly Drum goes off which is pretty fucking dumb and is faster than neutral speed invested Regieleki. 152 attack at +6 should pretty much kill everything that isn't Unaware particularly since Fluffy is banned or maybe an Earth Eater Gholdengo...? Just run Knock for that gg. Its bulk actually mean it probably isn't that easy to setup but it isn't bad and behind screens it can't be that hard to get a Drum off. Even if this is banned frankly Chesnaught can just do the same thing, and a million other drummers or setup mons. Please ban Unburden, probably, I'm not really paying attention to whatever else is in this tier just the banlist.
Extra notes: Weather seems really fucking dumb when you don't have Primordial weathers around as common immunities. Tera also seems really fucking dumb with all the super drugged up breakers and setup mons you currently have, but maybe at this point emergency defensive Tera is the only way to cope against some of these breakers/sweepers (until the next one comes along)
Following are also Unwallable, Cetitan is even Stronger and Faster
Hawlucha (Cetitan) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Earthquake
- Ice Spinner
- Superpower
Grafaiai (Sneasler) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dire Claw
- Rock Slide
- Close Combat
Using a slightly modified version of this team
Cinderace (Dragonite) @ Life Orb
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Ice Spinner
- Thunder Punch
Braviary-Hisui (Zapdos) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Roost
Azelf (Iron Moth) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- U-turn
- Toxic Spikes
Hatterene (Scream Tail) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Protect
Breloom (Great Tusk) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
Slowbro (Goodra-Hisui) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Curse
Ability: Libero
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Ice Spinner
- Thunder Punch
Braviary-Hisui (Zapdos) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Roost
Azelf (Iron Moth) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- U-turn
- Toxic Spikes
Hatterene (Scream Tail) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Protect
Breloom (Great Tusk) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
Slowbro (Goodra-Hisui) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Curse
Replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936899726-lymd9vkf00yp6ztggudda65s5lntoo2pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936912667-wgjrh0cxh829tt8r0i30kett5fspnihpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936913855-txzeswchdhwtd4nk5fb70e7ztqglnhypw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936915094-4shwm1la7yc5q37rdrsvk5qtjndl3w1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936975396-kxe4on008y1iom5fi53l6tkfim7i8iwpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936981782-fnqvlgds95445549asgzwol0rcj1tuypw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1937318635-p7qxk38hyzefopugzy3vffoxc5xm7rlpw
This is a Metagame that really makes you think and i keep losing :/
Last edited:
+
Let me just
Kleavor (Roaring Moon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dark/Fire/Electric/Whatever
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Iron Head
- Body Slam / Fire Fang / Thunder Fang
Tauros (Roaring Moon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dark/Fire/Electric/Whatever
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Iron Head
- Body Slam / Fire Fang / Thunder Fang
I LOVE Sheer Force Life Orb. Roaring Moon is just the only physical one (yeah, special might be better, but I'm in a hurry rn).
Kleavor gives 33 atk and 21 speed, Tauros gives 25 atk and 27 speed (hence +Speed on Kleavor and +Atk on Tauros).
Crunch for stab, Iron Head for Faeries and the last move for whatever mon you want/need.
Have fun
Kleavor (Roaring Moon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dark/Fire/Electric/Whatever
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Iron Head
- Body Slam / Fire Fang / Thunder Fang
Tauros (Roaring Moon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dark/Fire/Electric/Whatever
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Iron Head
- Body Slam / Fire Fang / Thunder Fang
I LOVE Sheer Force Life Orb. Roaring Moon is just the only physical one (yeah, special might be better, but I'm in a hurry rn).
Kleavor gives 33 atk and 21 speed, Tauros gives 25 atk and 27 speed (hence +Speed on Kleavor and +Atk on Tauros).
Crunch for stab, Iron Head for Faeries and the last move for whatever mon you want/need.
Have fun
To be frank, I believe the meta is in a perfect state as is.
Isn't this meta quite literally almost any ability but with boosted stats? Doesn't that mean any additional bans & restrictions would eventually evolve to be the same?
Don't think anything should change from what it is now or else this'll just end up a carbon copy of AAA.
Isn't this meta quite literally almost any ability but with boosted stats? Doesn't that mean any additional bans & restrictions would eventually evolve to be the same?
Don't think anything should change from what it is now or else this'll just end up a carbon copy of AAA.
I would like to see some Sketchmons in it. Maybe take a single move from the fused mon.
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Great Tusk Mach Punch sounds like too much
Yeah, too much FUN!
Hoopa (Thundurus-Therian) (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Agility / Focus Blast
Like this. But this is legal.
Gliscor is returning, rejoice
A possible answer to the win condition that is Loaded Dice Mold Breaker Baxcalibur running around:
:sv/MR MONEY-: oh, sorry, just got really excited... Lets try again.
+
Stats: 87/148/120/160/109/100
Skeledirge (Gholdengo) @ Leftovers/Ability Shield
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Nasty Plot
And for out-offensing it...
+
Stats: 70/166/122/70/97/89
Haxorus (Scizor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker/Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bug Buzz
What if we throw a glacier at it?
+/
Stats:
Slowbro - 95/135/211/69/66/35
Florges - 95/133/201/72/84/45
:sv/MR MONEY-: oh, sorry, just got really excited... Lets try again.
+Stats: 87/148/120/160/109/100
Skeledirge (Gholdengo) @ Leftovers/Ability Shield
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Nasty Plot
And for out-offensing it...
+Stats: 70/166/122/70/97/89
Haxorus (Scizor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker/Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bug Buzz
What if we throw a glacier at it?
+/Stats:
Slowbro - 95/135/211/69/66/35
Slowbro (Avalugg) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin/Recover
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Earthquake
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin/Recover
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Earthquake
Florges (Avalugg) @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin/Recover
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Earthquake
Ability: Ice Body
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin/Recover
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Earthquake
Last edited:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BS_UsVEJPpWRNjzanqazttijSf7eVLNSskSOIcFJCFw/edit?usp=sharing
Got bored. Wanted to whip something up to help. Here you go!
Got bored. Wanted to whip something up to help. Here you go!
the tier is in a terrible state
I have made it my mission to make everyone suffer in this tier with the most degenerate stalls I could come up with, and i can say ive succeded in flying colors, as I have now two alts at the top of the ladder, below the buns and La Casa Matusita. The first one was dedicated to showing why any tier with free ish regen needs ability clause:
https://pokepast.es/99b4e352c8ab8047
This team has 4 regens, a phealer to beat opposing pheal, and an unaware just in case. Its objective is encapsulated in this self quote:
The regens are somewhat generic and are all equipped with some form of setup prevention, such as phazing, foul play, being big donphan, etc. Originally i was running unaware corb and pheal big jigglypuff, but i got sick of big puff being so limp weak, so i made it unaware and picked up pheal gzap bc i still needed a meowscarada answer. And my god, is pheal gzap good.
breloom (Zapdos-Galar) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Protect
- Thunderous Kick
- Drill Peck
This is actually an long term unbeatable wincon with a little team support between its good bulk allowing it to take special attacks decently well, Tkick allowing it to beat bulky stuff for freeish and pheal being broken broke broke. Ban pheal, since it allows many doofuses to become fantastic wincons.
Some replays of the team in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936274732 i love regen bc it allows me to play like shit and still be in the game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1935347327
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1937223326
My crowning achievement, my magnum opus, my ode to why it should be 1AC instead of 2AC.
457 agonizing turns full of switching, stifled setup attempts, and lots and lots of pp stalling.
My two favorite highlights is when i intentionally waste my pp on my gzap so that i can click struggle, whose recoil i can heal easily with pheal, and create the 0 PP Clicker, and CM bliss justifying itself by finally managing to close the game after cm big puff and gzap managed to make my opponent run out of encores and whirlwinds. Endgames where theres more than two regens on both sides (which is often given how good regen is) can drag for a loong loong time and often end up in draws should both of them be equipped enough to stop their forms of progress such as hazards, and setup, which given the state of the meta is super easy to do. I implore for the council to implement 1AC specifically, as to never subject anyone to this fate.
Some naysayers will say that this team is not that good, as its only really good at prolonging games while not being as good at stopping things such as hazards and what not. And to some extent they're right. This team acomplishes its goal of making everyone suffer when playing against it, but it can fold to hazard stack and getting haxed in longer games. So after getting high enough with this team i decided to pull out my Halloween alt, La Casa Matusita, and make a stall team thats actually broken broken.
https://pokepast.es/0c1f305826dfe4eb
I lost one time to sub Diancie!hamurott and the other time to I think meow? (i was running spdef corb and it tpunched me) I forgot, but the thing is this team is broken broken and should not be allowed.
Uxie (Gholdengo) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
The star of the team and devil that allows this to happen. Once again, ground immune gholdengo takes a relative pittance from knock once it lost its item, making it able to spinblock the one good spinner, big donphan, for long enough for it to drown in hazards before it can spin them. You can't reliably spin against this thing; even cope options such as scrappy big donphan just lose because it has no recovery, and quav and the such are a joke and get spinblocked by this guy as well.
Hatterene (Vaporeon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Wish
- Protect
- Mud-Slap
An admittedly odd pick, but it makes a lot of sense as it can switch in and scare away ground types such as tinglu and big donphan and heatran, all of which are the most common hazard setters in the tier. I chose vaporeon over the bulkier alomomola mainly for mud-slap believe it or not, as I have faced more than once WA Heatran, and alomomola couldnt do anything about it whereas vape had fantastic options to choose such as dig and mud slap to bother it. Mud-Slap also managed to work fine enough throught my run by being able to cheese my way against switchins, and one time making someone miss its memento 3 times in a row before dying.
Tornadus T (Great Tusk) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
The big man. there he is. only good hazard removal in this bitch of a gen. it has rocks bc its hazard stack. this is like the set most ppl run what else do you want me to say
slowking (Goodra-Hisui) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam
- Heavy Slam
AV regen mon that does mostly fine vs special attackers. Like this post if youve seen this set before in a different tier
Diancie (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Recover
- Toxic
- Surf
I really didnt know what to put as the pokemon to spit spikes as I felt most options would overlap with big donphan since all of them are ground types. I ended up going with this guy, as it had unaware and could somewhat take bax. In practice, it kinda didnt have many opportunities to come in bc its super under stated for the tier, and could take bax about as well as ghold (which is to say barely), but it only needed to a few opportunities to come in per game to be effective, and toxic really came in handy as people really have become complatient to not thinking their wincons are toxic vulnerable, so it could beat stuff with that pretty well.
Gholdengo (Corviknight) @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Drill Peck
- Body Press
The list of pokemon that can switch into corb without much fear and have recovery is pretty big, so this couldve been many things. i ended up going corb bc i need smt to not lose to meow once again. The name gholdengo comes up once again as it gives good as gold, to block feeble defog attempts. Using cope options such as moldy fog 1) makes you a terrible corb 2) still lose long term bc fog has 24 pp.
I have fewer replays for this team since i played less, but they still demonstrate my point
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936766147-0jsu67urx5gret9u15su7rhr21j7v7cpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936876903
As i said before, the enabler of this monstrosity is gholdengo, and it deserves the ban
Other brokens in the tier
What the fuck. What. The. Fuck. Why is a pokemon that can deal 40% to resists without a choice band or a Life Orb free? Why is it still free? why is all counterplay to setup sets of this bozo vulnerable to band? Whens the ban coming? This thing learns crunch, you know? so ghold isnt sacred, and haxorus can give it moldy to further break and beat unaware mons and levighold.
What the fuck. What. The. Fuck. Why is the pokemon that can deal 70% to most special walls with a barely invested physical move free? Its moonblasts do fucking 30 ish to blissey and goodrah, and has coverage for basically any check. This is actually the most broken mon right now because at least fake bax answers are fake bc they eat 40 still, whereas enam can 2hko everything you can put in front of it unless you use mid mon moltres with spdef bc im sure hbraviary!enam can do 50 to it with psychic.
TL;DR: Implement 1AC, ban ghold, ban bax, ban enam
I have made it my mission to make everyone suffer in this tier with the most degenerate stalls I could come up with, and i can say ive succeded in flying colors, as I have now two alts at the top of the ladder, below the buns and La Casa Matusita. The first one was dedicated to showing why any tier with free ish regen needs ability clause:
https://pokepast.es/99b4e352c8ab8047
This team has 4 regens, a phealer to beat opposing pheal, and an unaware just in case. Its objective is encapsulated in this self quote:
The regens are somewhat generic and are all equipped with some form of setup prevention, such as phazing, foul play, being big donphan, etc. Originally i was running unaware corb and pheal big jigglypuff, but i got sick of big puff being so limp weak, so i made it unaware and picked up pheal gzap bc i still needed a meowscarada answer. And my god, is pheal gzap good.
breloom (Zapdos-Galar) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Protect
- Thunderous Kick
- Drill Peck
This is actually an long term unbeatable wincon with a little team support between its good bulk allowing it to take special attacks decently well, Tkick allowing it to beat bulky stuff for freeish and pheal being broken broke broke. Ban pheal, since it allows many doofuses to become fantastic wincons.
Some replays of the team in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936274732 i love regen bc it allows me to play like shit and still be in the game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1935347327
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1937223326
My crowning achievement, my magnum opus, my ode to why it should be 1AC instead of 2AC.
457 agonizing turns full of switching, stifled setup attempts, and lots and lots of pp stalling.
My two favorite highlights is when i intentionally waste my pp on my gzap so that i can click struggle, whose recoil i can heal easily with pheal, and create the 0 PP Clicker, and CM bliss justifying itself by finally managing to close the game after cm big puff and gzap managed to make my opponent run out of encores and whirlwinds. Endgames where theres more than two regens on both sides (which is often given how good regen is) can drag for a loong loong time and often end up in draws should both of them be equipped enough to stop their forms of progress such as hazards, and setup, which given the state of the meta is super easy to do. I implore for the council to implement 1AC specifically, as to never subject anyone to this fate.
Some naysayers will say that this team is not that good, as its only really good at prolonging games while not being as good at stopping things such as hazards and what not. And to some extent they're right. This team acomplishes its goal of making everyone suffer when playing against it, but it can fold to hazard stack and getting haxed in longer games. So after getting high enough with this team i decided to pull out my Halloween alt, La Casa Matusita, and make a stall team thats actually broken broken.
https://pokepast.es/0c1f305826dfe4eb
I lost one time to sub Diancie!hamurott and the other time to I think meow? (i was running spdef corb and it tpunched me) I forgot, but the thing is this team is broken broken and should not be allowed.
Uxie (Gholdengo) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
The star of the team and devil that allows this to happen. Once again, ground immune gholdengo takes a relative pittance from knock once it lost its item, making it able to spinblock the one good spinner, big donphan, for long enough for it to drown in hazards before it can spin them. You can't reliably spin against this thing; even cope options such as scrappy big donphan just lose because it has no recovery, and quav and the such are a joke and get spinblocked by this guy as well.
Hatterene (Vaporeon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Wish
- Protect
- Mud-Slap
An admittedly odd pick, but it makes a lot of sense as it can switch in and scare away ground types such as tinglu and big donphan and heatran, all of which are the most common hazard setters in the tier. I chose vaporeon over the bulkier alomomola mainly for mud-slap believe it or not, as I have faced more than once WA Heatran, and alomomola couldnt do anything about it whereas vape had fantastic options to choose such as dig and mud slap to bother it. Mud-Slap also managed to work fine enough throught my run by being able to cheese my way against switchins, and one time making someone miss its memento 3 times in a row before dying.
Tornadus T (Great Tusk) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
The big man. there he is. only good hazard removal in this bitch of a gen. it has rocks bc its hazard stack. this is like the set most ppl run what else do you want me to say
slowking (Goodra-Hisui) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam
- Heavy Slam
AV regen mon that does mostly fine vs special attackers. Like this post if youve seen this set before in a different tier
Diancie (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Recover
- Toxic
- Surf
I really didnt know what to put as the pokemon to spit spikes as I felt most options would overlap with big donphan since all of them are ground types. I ended up going with this guy, as it had unaware and could somewhat take bax. In practice, it kinda didnt have many opportunities to come in bc its super under stated for the tier, and could take bax about as well as ghold (which is to say barely), but it only needed to a few opportunities to come in per game to be effective, and toxic really came in handy as people really have become complatient to not thinking their wincons are toxic vulnerable, so it could beat stuff with that pretty well.
Gholdengo (Corviknight) @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Drill Peck
- Body Press
The list of pokemon that can switch into corb without much fear and have recovery is pretty big, so this couldve been many things. i ended up going corb bc i need smt to not lose to meow once again. The name gholdengo comes up once again as it gives good as gold, to block feeble defog attempts. Using cope options such as moldy fog 1) makes you a terrible corb 2) still lose long term bc fog has 24 pp.
I have fewer replays for this team since i played less, but they still demonstrate my point
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936766147-0jsu67urx5gret9u15su7rhr21j7v7cpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936876903
As i said before, the enabler of this monstrosity is gholdengo, and it deserves the ban
Other brokens in the tier
What the fuck. What. The. Fuck. Why is a pokemon that can deal 40% to resists without a choice band or a Life Orb free? Why is it still free? why is all counterplay to setup sets of this bozo vulnerable to band? Whens the ban coming? This thing learns crunch, you know? so ghold isnt sacred, and haxorus can give it moldy to further break and beat unaware mons and levighold.
What the fuck. What. The. Fuck. Why is the pokemon that can deal 70% to most special walls with a barely invested physical move free? Its moonblasts do fucking 30 ish to blissey and goodrah, and has coverage for basically any check. This is actually the most broken mon right now because at least fake bax answers are fake bc they eat 40 still, whereas enam can 2hko everything you can put in front of it unless you use mid mon moltres with spdef bc im sure hbraviary!enam can do 50 to it with psychic.
TL;DR: Implement 1AC, ban ghold, ban bax, ban enam
delutional take. you cant just turn a blind eye to the brokens of the tier just to differenciate it from aaa. If balancing it ends up turning it into aaa 2, it means the concept is simply flawed. And if you dont change anything, youll have an unplayable tier. Both ways end up with you not being able to play FF, but in one you admit your mistakes
Attachments
corrected, thanks
the tier is in a terrible state
View attachment 548738
I have made it my mission to make everyone suffer in this tier with the most degenerate stalls I could come up with, and i can say ive succeded in flying colors, as I have now two alts at the top of the ladder, below the buns and La Casa Matusita. The first one was dedicated to showing why any tier with free ish regen needs ability clause:
https://pokepast.es/99b4e352c8ab8047
This team has 4 regens, a phealer to beat opposing pheal, and an unaware just in case. Its objective is encapsulated in this self quote:
View attachment 548741
The regens are somewhat generic and are all equipped with some form of setup prevention, such as phazing, foul play, being big donphan, etc. Originally i was running unaware corb and pheal big jigglypuff, but i got sick of big puff being so limp weak, so i made it unaware and picked up pheal gzap bc i still needed a meowscarada answer. And my god, is pheal gzap good.
breloom (Zapdos-Galar) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Protect
- Thunderous Kick
- Drill Peck
This is actually an long term unbeatable wincon with a little team support between its good bulk allowing it to take special attacks decently well, Tkick allowing it to beat bulky stuff for freeish and pheal being broken broke broke. Ban pheal, since it allows many doofuses to become fantastic wincons.
Some replays of the team in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936274732 i love regen bc it allows me to play like shit and still be in the game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1935347327
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1937223326
My crowning achievement, my magnum opus, my ode to why it should be 1AC instead of 2AC.
457 agonizing turns full of switching, stifled setup attempts, and lots and lots of pp stalling.
My two favorite highlights is when i intentionally waste my pp on my gzap so that i can click struggle, whose recoil i can heal easily with pheal, and create the 0 PP Clicker, and CM bliss justifying itself by finally managing to close the game after cm big puff and gzap managed to make my opponent run out of encores and whirlwinds. Endgames where theres more than two regens on both sides (which is often given how good regen is) can drag for a loong loong time and often end up in draws should both of them be equipped enough to stop their forms of progress such as hazards, and setup, which given the state of the meta is super easy to do. I implore for the council to implement 1AC specifically, as to never subject anyone to this fate.
Some naysayers will say that this team is not that good, as its only really good at prolonging games while not being as good at stopping things such as hazards and what not. And to some extent they're right. This team acomplishes its goal of making everyone suffer when playing against it, but it can fold to hazard stack and getting haxed in longer games. So after getting high enough with this team i decided to pull out my Halloween alt, La Casa Matusita, and make a stall team thats actually broken broken.
https://pokepast.es/0c1f305826dfe4eb
View attachment 548750
I lost one time to sub Diancie!hamurott and the other time to I think meow? (i was running spdef corb and it tpunched me) I forgot, but the thing is this team is broken broken and should not be allowed.
Uxie (Gholdengo) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
The star of the team and devil that allows this to happen. Once again, ground immune gholdengo takes a relative pittance from knock once it lost its item, making it able to spinblock the one good spinner, big donphan, for long enough for it to drown in hazards before it can spin them. You can't reliably spin against this thing; even cope options such as scrappy big donphan just lose because it has no recovery, and quav and the such are a joke and get spinblocked by this guy as well.
Hatterene (Vaporeon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Wish
- Protect
- Mud-Slap
An admittedly odd pick, but it makes a lot of sense as it can switch in and scare away ground types such as tinglu and big donphan and heatran, all of which are the most common hazard setters in the tier. I chose vaporeon over the bulkier alomomola mainly for mud-slap believe it or not, as I have faced more than once WA Heatran, and alomomola couldnt do anything about it whereas vape had fantastic options to choose such as dig and mud slap to bother it. Mud-Slap also managed to work fine enough throught my run by being able to cheese my way against switchins, and one time making someone miss its memento 3 times in a row before dying.
Tornadus T (Great Tusk) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
The big man. there he is. only good hazard removal in this bitch of a gen. it has rocks bc its hazard stack. this is like the set most ppl run what else do you want me to say
slowking (Goodra-Hisui) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam
- Heavy Slam
AV regen mon that does mostly fine vs special attackers. Like this post if youve seen this set before in a different tier
Diancie (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Recover
- Toxic
- Surf
I really didnt know what to put as the pokemon to spit spikes as I felt most options would overlap with big donphan since all of them are ground types. I ended up going with this guy, as it had unaware and could somewhat take bax. In practice, it kinda didnt have many opportunities to come in bc its super under stated for the tier, and could take bax about as well as ghold (which is to say barely), but it only needed to a few opportunities to come in per game to be effective, and toxic really came in handy as people really have become complatient to not thinking their wincons are toxic vulnerable, so it could beat stuff with that pretty well.
Gholdengo (Corviknight) @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Drill Peck
- Body Press
The list of pokemon that can switch into corb without much fear and have recovery is pretty big, so this couldve been many things. i ended up going corb bc i need smt to not lose to meow once again. The name gholdengo comes up once again as it gives good as gold, to block feeble defog attempts. Using cope options such as moldy fog 1) makes you a terrible corb 2) still lose long term bc fog has 24 pp.
I have fewer replays for this team since i played less, but they still demonstrate my point
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936766147-0jsu67urx5gret9u15su7rhr21j7v7cpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936876903
As i said before, the enabler of this monstrosity is gholdengo, and it deserves the ban
Other brokens in the tier
What the fuck. What. The. Fuck. Why is a pokemon that can deal 40% to resists without a choice band or a Life Orb free? Why is it still free? why is all counterplay to setup sets of this bozo vulnerable to band? Whens the ban coming? This thing learns crunch, you know? so ghold isnt sacred, and haxorus can give it moldy to further break and beat unaware mons and levighold.
What the fuck. What. The. Fuck. Why is the pokemon that can deal 70% to most special walls with a barely invested physical move free? Its moonblasts do fucking 30 ish to blissey and goodrah, and has coverage for basically any check. This is actually the most broken mon right now because at least fake bax answers are fake bc they eat 40 still, whereas enam can 2hko everything you can put in front of it unless you use mid mon moltres with spdef bc im sure hbraviary!enam can do 50 to it with psychic.
TL;DR: Implement 1AC, ban ghold, ban bax, ban enam
delutional take. you cant just turn a blind eye to the brokens of the tier just to differenciate it from aaa. If balancing it ends up turning it into aaa 2, it means the concept is simply flawed. And if you dont change anything, youll have an unplayable tier. Both ways end up with you not being able to play FF, but in one you admit your mistakes
Cope option 2 - Pixilate/Scrappy Rapid Spin (actually don't it's an awful set)
As if superpower was even necessary:252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Enamorus (Braviary-H) Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui (Slowking): 166-198 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Couldn't have said it better about regen, so many of my games feel pretty much scripted, I lead tusk, get up rocks, then from that point all I have to do is switch between the 3-4 regens until the opponent gives up or dies trying (not really, but yes really).
Note - I prefer Klawf over TornT as a fusion for Tusk as it's the best regen mon for dealing with opposing Tusk, thus forcing them out and keeping rocks up
Another mon I wanna bring up is
: The most common fusions for it are Regidrago, Basculegion, Basculegion-F and Braviary-H. The main problem with pult is that it forces a 50/50 on you, physical or special? Losing this coinflip can potentially be disasterous:252+ Atk Choice Band Dragon's Maw Dragapult (Regidrago) Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Goodra-Hisui (Slowbro): 356-420 (97.8 - 115.3%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
To be fair, all DMaw sets I've seen thus far have been DD
252 SpA Dragon's Maw Dragapult (Regidrago) Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk (TornT): 393-463 (105.1 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Specs aren't even needed here
Currently it's not so bad as you can go into a regen middleground that takes 70% max and once the set is revealed, you can just go into the appropriate regenerator mon and oh yea, bax Ice Shard exists
However, in the event that regen is limited to 1 mon per team and bax and enam are banned, Dragapult would be much tougher to deal with as this would no longer be possible, in addition to the checks themselves becoming weaker and/or less consistent, potentially to the point of Dragapult itself becoming a problem
As for the meta being unplayable, I can understand why they would be reluctant to take action straight away, considering that the meta was originally thought to be extremely offensive and that any changes made now won't apply on the ladder for a while, leaving only a few days between these bans and the meta-altering DLC
Additionally, 2AC is also worth considering as a middleground option imo
the tier is in a terrible state
View attachment 548738
I have made it my mission to make everyone suffer in this tier with the most degenerate stalls I could come up with, and i can say ive succeded in flying colors, as I have now two alts at the top of the ladder, below the buns and La Casa Matusita. The first one was dedicated to showing why any tier with free ish regen needs ability clause:
https://pokepast.es/99b4e352c8ab8047
This team has 4 regens, a phealer to beat opposing pheal, and an unaware just in case. Its objective is encapsulated in this self quote:
View attachment 548741
The regens are somewhat generic and are all equipped with some form of setup prevention, such as phazing, foul play, being big donphan, etc. Originally i was running unaware corb and pheal big jigglypuff, but i got sick of big puff being so limp weak, so i made it unaware and picked up pheal gzap bc i still needed a meowscarada answer. And my god, is pheal gzap good.
breloom (Zapdos-Galar) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Protect
- Thunderous Kick
- Drill Peck
This is actually an long term unbeatable wincon with a little team support between its good bulk allowing it to take special attacks decently well, Tkick allowing it to beat bulky stuff for freeish and pheal being broken broke broke. Ban pheal, since it allows many doofuses to become fantastic wincons.
Some replays of the team in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936274732 i love regen bc it allows me to play like shit and still be in the game
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1935347327
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1937223326
My crowning achievement, my magnum opus, my ode to why it should be 1AC instead of 2AC.
457 agonizing turns full of switching, stifled setup attempts, and lots and lots of pp stalling.
My two favorite highlights is when i intentionally waste my pp on my gzap so that i can click struggle, whose recoil i can heal easily with pheal, and create the 0 PP Clicker, and CM bliss justifying itself by finally managing to close the game after cm big puff and gzap managed to make my opponent run out of encores and whirlwinds. Endgames where theres more than two regens on both sides (which is often given how good regen is) can drag for a loong loong time and often end up in draws should both of them be equipped enough to stop their forms of progress such as hazards, and setup, which given the state of the meta is super easy to do. I implore for the council to implement 1AC specifically, as to never subject anyone to this fate.
Some naysayers will say that this team is not that good, as its only really good at prolonging games while not being as good at stopping things such as hazards and what not. And to some extent they're right. This team acomplishes its goal of making everyone suffer when playing against it, but it can fold to hazard stack and getting haxed in longer games. So after getting high enough with this team i decided to pull out my Halloween alt, La Casa Matusita, and make a stall team thats actually broken broken.
https://pokepast.es/0c1f305826dfe4eb
View attachment 548750
I lost one time to sub Diancie!hamurott and the other time to I think meow? (i was running spdef corb and it tpunched me) I forgot, but the thing is this team is broken broken and should not be allowed.
Uxie (Gholdengo) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
The star of the team and devil that allows this to happen. Once again, ground immune gholdengo takes a relative pittance from knock once it lost its item, making it able to spinblock the one good spinner, big donphan, for long enough for it to drown in hazards before it can spin them. You can't reliably spin against this thing; even cope options such as scrappy big donphan just lose because it has no recovery, and quav and the such are a joke and get spinblocked by this guy as well.
Hatterene (Vaporeon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Wish
- Protect
- Mud-Slap
An admittedly odd pick, but it makes a lot of sense as it can switch in and scare away ground types such as tinglu and big donphan and heatran, all of which are the most common hazard setters in the tier. I chose vaporeon over the bulkier alomomola mainly for mud-slap believe it or not, as I have faced more than once WA Heatran, and alomomola couldnt do anything about it whereas vape had fantastic options to choose such as dig and mud slap to bother it. Mud-Slap also managed to work fine enough throught my run by being able to cheese my way against switchins, and one time making someone miss its memento 3 times in a row before dying.
Tornadus T (Great Tusk) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
The big man. there he is. only good hazard removal in this bitch of a gen. it has rocks bc its hazard stack. this is like the set most ppl run what else do you want me to say
slowking (Goodra-Hisui) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam
- Heavy Slam
AV regen mon that does mostly fine vs special attackers. Like this post if youve seen this set before in a different tier
Diancie (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Recover
- Toxic
- Surf
I really didnt know what to put as the pokemon to spit spikes as I felt most options would overlap with big donphan since all of them are ground types. I ended up going with this guy, as it had unaware and could somewhat take bax. In practice, it kinda didnt have many opportunities to come in bc its super under stated for the tier, and could take bax about as well as ghold (which is to say barely), but it only needed to a few opportunities to come in per game to be effective, and toxic really came in handy as people really have become complatient to not thinking their wincons are toxic vulnerable, so it could beat stuff with that pretty well.
Gholdengo (Corviknight) @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Drill Peck
- Body Press
The list of pokemon that can switch into corb without much fear and have recovery is pretty big, so this couldve been many things. i ended up going corb bc i need smt to not lose to meow once again. The name gholdengo comes up once again as it gives good as gold, to block feeble defog attempts. Using cope options such as moldy fog 1) makes you a terrible corb 2) still lose long term bc fog has 24 pp.
I have fewer replays for this team since i played less, but they still demonstrate my point
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936766147-0jsu67urx5gret9u15su7rhr21j7v7cpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9franticfusions-1936876903
As i said before, the enabler of this monstrosity is gholdengo, and it deserves the ban
Other brokens in the tier
What the fuck. What. The. Fuck. Why is a pokemon that can deal 40% to resists without a choice band or a Life Orb free? Why is it still free? why is all counterplay to setup sets of this bozo vulnerable to band? Whens the ban coming? This thing learns crunch, you know? so ghold isnt sacred, and haxorus can give it moldy to further break and beat unaware mons and levighold.
What the fuck. What. The. Fuck. Why is the pokemon that can deal 70% to most special walls with a barely invested physical move free? Its moonblasts do fucking 30 ish to blissey and goodrah, and has coverage for basically any check. This is actually the most broken mon right now because at least fake bax answers are fake bc they eat 40 still, whereas enam can 2hko everything you can put in front of it unless you use mid mon moltres with spdef bc im sure hbraviary!enam can do 50 to it with psychic.
TL;DR: Implement 1AC, ban ghold, ban bax, ban enam
delutional take. you cant just turn a blind eye to the brokens of the tier just to differenciate it from aaa. If balancing it ends up turning it into aaa 2, it means the concept is simply flawed. And if you dont change anything, youll have an unplayable tier. Both ways end up with you not being able to play FF, but in one you admit your mistakes
Rain is the other one that needs a hard look at
I will say it was pretty funny when i faced a guy with 4 wave crash clickers