I have to agree with this. I've been on the rotom side of the deal, and have had him severely wrecked by Excadrill in the past. Unlike in BW though, it felt justified. I don't know if this makes sense, but it felt good playing against it. He was threatening, versatile, and yet his mere presence didn't guarantee that I lost the match. I probably won't be touching him for a bit, but I enjoy Excadrill's presence in the meta.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Freed Ubers
- Thread starter Talpr0ne
- Start date
- Status
excadrill should i think, stay in OU. I don't really have a problem with them, scarfed Talon Flame can deal with it pretty well, especially against air balloon types, and i uses dusclops not rotom to take EQ, and burn back. But genesect, man, that should not be in OU. Too powerful w/ that U-Turn. Excadrill is counterable, and nobody runs scarf, they run air balloon, letting a scarfed TalonFlame fry it.
Scarf Talonflame is a really poor idea. Not only his power is pretty lackluster without a boosting item, but also the speed boost is pointless because it has the fastest priority in the game(bar Extreme Speed wich can't outspeed anyway) and is still pretty fast when using non flying moves(still outspeed non-scarf Excadrill for that matter).
It's not really worth running Shift Gear without any physical attacks because it can only use a Hasty nature, just like how Extremespeed Entei can only be Adamant. A noticeable power drop from not being able to run Modest just to be able to fake a physical set really isn't worth it.
Also, it's worth noting that there's no reason at all to run Sludge Bomb on Landorus-I since it gets Sludge Wave.
Last edited:
why bother bringing up countering Excadrill it doesn't need it. Mold Breaker is standard now for support reasons cause Sand Rush got nerfed hard. when your building your team you probably have multiple ways to deal with Excadrill. its still pretty good. It doesn't require you to run Scarf Talonflame of all things that is such a horrible idea. you were the guy running Scarfed Scizor weren't you? its basically the same thing. you lose EVERYTHING that makes Talonflame good (Priority Brave Bird and Roost) just to smack Excadrill with Flare Blitz. thats just......
Also your running Dusclops......nope just no. sure its bulky but thats all it has. its recovery is pretty shitty, it can't sponge hits repeatedly. Rotoms recovery through RestChesto and (Soon) Pain Split not to mention momentum grabbing and superior speed and typing put it a level above Dusclops. They are incomparable but if you want to Rotom will win every time.
Genesect is not Ubers anymore though. Its BoltBeam and Flamethrower were nerfed hard and its momentum Grabbing abilities aren't as sought after, what with the powerful priority running around everywhere, killing it before it can turn if its anything decent. again its good but not Uber. i don't think any of the remaining Freed Ubers, Except maybe Lando I (But it should be fine with the power creep) are even close to Ubers. Minus Genesect and Excadrill (And Maybe Lando I haven't tried its RP Sheer Force set out) they seem really underwhelming. it just shows how much of a big deal weather was last time out.
rest chesto is soso, and dusclops has pain split too, and does it better. (less hp, way more def.) With the rise of scolipede, dusclops is the better option. It has curse, which IS BATON passed. That swords dance speed boost pass isn't very promising w/ curse attached, and scolipede can't block it with protect. also rotom can't switch into Mega Khan. I already recanted the talon flame thing. It was just me throwing an idea out, and i was thinking about sand rush. Weather, yes has been nerfed, and thus some mons lose uber status. But genesect can hit just too hard. Stab choice banded uturn hits way too hard.
Let's dispel the notion that the only Ubers that were dropped were ones that were relying 100% on weather. We got Deo-D/S, Genesect, Landorus-I, and Manaphy. Manaphy is a borderline case, but it still has Tail Glow. Besides that, none of these Pokemon were reliant on weather. Landorus' Sand Force sets were positively OU, and Genesect did not in any way shape or form rely on Thunder to be broken.
Even then, a lot of people are still arguing over whether or not rain broke Thundurus-I. Priority Thunder Wave is INSANE, as is priority anything. Now we have a Prankster user with reliable STAB (sorry Tornadus-I, I'll always think fondly of priority Tailwind) and is very very far from a joke in the face of Magic Bouncers (not sorry Sableye, Espeon saved me from clawing my eyes out when I saw you).
Dusclops is a joke, it's received nothing new to help it not be garbage like it's been since its introduction.
Even then, a lot of people are still arguing over whether or not rain broke Thundurus-I. Priority Thunder Wave is INSANE, as is priority anything. Now we have a Prankster user with reliable STAB (sorry Tornadus-I, I'll always think fondly of priority Tailwind) and is very very far from a joke in the face of Magic Bouncers (not sorry Sableye, Espeon saved me from clawing my eyes out when I saw you).
Dusclops is a joke, it's received nothing new to help it not be garbage like it's been since its introduction.
Dusclops isn't the best, its not. But with access to curse, it makes it ok. UU. Curse is good for stopping baton pass sweeps. Take Gorebyss, the premier smash passer. That smash pass to say Conkledurr, is useless if curse comes with it too. I have a dusclops because it can reliably disable a LOT of dangerous mons, and curse is very good with the Scolipedes massive usage. In all honesty, Dusclops has decent bulk, a great pain split user (better than rotom), access to night shade and it can switch into MegaKhangaskan and disable it, a feat rotom, can barely manage. (with prediction, it's outsped and 2HK0 by return). Im looking into a better mon than Dusclops, but for now, Dusclops can pull it off. Have fun getting swept by Mega-Khan with your Rotom. :)
If you want a garbage mon, go look at the depths of NU. Dusclops will happily sit in UU for this Gen.
If you want a garbage mon, go look at the depths of NU. Dusclops will happily sit in UU for this Gen.
well not 100% reliant on weather. just The horribly broken ones. Like Thunderus (Yes Twave hurt, so did priority Nasty Plot with 100% accurate Thunder in a Meta packed with Water) Tornadus-T (Specs Hurricane) and Manaphy (Hydration/Tail Glow) and of course Excadrill.
Looking at the new released Ubers, They all got nerfed enough to stay. Thunderus is obvious (Weather and Thunder Nerf) Tornadus-T is obvious (Weather and Hurricane Nerf) Manaphy obvious (No Weather) Excadrill isn't really a sweeper anymore without sand, the Deoxys Formes Hazards get spun away easily by defog, which is everywhere, and even their screens (They can preform more balanced roles now in fast weak offense and stall respectively), Lando-I is hurt by the meta shift to priority attacks and general power creep and Genesect just got nerfed on all fronts. all of them are solid OU mons, except Manaphy which is gonna fall a bit.
Now lets nip this off Topic Dusclops thing in the butt. if Kanga is doing 45% its A) A 2HKO under Rocks and B) its not set up meaning if rocks aren't up it switches. If rocks are set up its dead. if Kanga is set up (Either through prior PuP or somebody said Screw it and ran SD, if Dusclops was a problem it could carry that no problem) its dead. and its badly damaged anyway. and its slow and more problems. Rotom isn't a check to Kanga, sure nobody said that. It IS a better wall though. Momentum, Better recovery through any means (RestChesto which is good (How you find Dusclops decent and this bad is beyond me) Lefties or Pain Split whereas Dusclops has a slow pain split.) plus Rotoms Typing is just better. and it can grab momentum and do sooo much more than Dusclops can. as for stopping Scolipede, phasers i.e. better Walls like Skarm, Hippo and heck M-Aggron can just Roar/Whirlwind/DTail it out. if your relying on Dusclops, rethink your team. and stop trying to stop Mega Kangaskhan lets all just accept it can't be done against a decent player.
Looking at the new released Ubers, They all got nerfed enough to stay. Thunderus is obvious (Weather and Thunder Nerf) Tornadus-T is obvious (Weather and Hurricane Nerf) Manaphy obvious (No Weather) Excadrill isn't really a sweeper anymore without sand, the Deoxys Formes Hazards get spun away easily by defog, which is everywhere, and even their screens (They can preform more balanced roles now in fast weak offense and stall respectively), Lando-I is hurt by the meta shift to priority attacks and general power creep and Genesect just got nerfed on all fronts. all of them are solid OU mons, except Manaphy which is gonna fall a bit.
Now lets nip this off Topic Dusclops thing in the butt. if Kanga is doing 45% its A) A 2HKO under Rocks and B) its not set up meaning if rocks aren't up it switches. If rocks are set up its dead. if Kanga is set up (Either through prior PuP or somebody said Screw it and ran SD, if Dusclops was a problem it could carry that no problem) its dead. and its badly damaged anyway. and its slow and more problems. Rotom isn't a check to Kanga, sure nobody said that. It IS a better wall though. Momentum, Better recovery through any means (RestChesto which is good (How you find Dusclops decent and this bad is beyond me) Lefties or Pain Split whereas Dusclops has a slow pain split.) plus Rotoms Typing is just better. and it can grab momentum and do sooo much more than Dusclops can. as for stopping Scolipede, phasers i.e. better Walls like Skarm, Hippo and heck M-Aggron can just Roar/Whirlwind/DTail it out. if your relying on Dusclops, rethink your team. and stop trying to stop Mega Kangaskhan lets all just accept it can't be done against a decent player.
Sableye has to be careful of an Espeon switching into its status moves, but it can take it on in battle.
0 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 68 SpD Sableye: 70 - 83 (23.4 - 27.5%)
0- Atk Espeon Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Espeon: 161 - 190 (48.5 - 57.0%)
(Second calc assumes 0 IVs in Atk as well, but takes into account Sableye's STAB.)
An Espeon switch-in against Sableye is really obvious, making it easy to nail it with a Foul Play on the switch, and Espeon can't do much in return unless it's got Dazzling Gleam. Even if Sableye has to flee in fear of the move, it'll still do a lot of damage to Espeon, giving it a hard time switching back in later. Granted, if you've already nailed it with a Foul Play once, it could get a lot harder to predict whether your opponent will switch to Espeon or stay in and attack Sableye next time, and making mistakes with Sableye can be costly.
In regards to Dusclops, I personally enjoy using Sableye over it. With Prankster giving it priority Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, and Recover, it can be a major thorn and annoyance to many teams. Regardless, the topic is on freed Ubers.
I agree with what others have said regarding Genesect and Excadrill. These Pokemon are, without doubt, excellent and deserve high usage, however they are much more manageable this generation. Chou brought up a great point in that Genesect no longer resists priority Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch. In general, Genesect's frail defenses combined with the Steel Type nerf really cripple the idea of Genesect being outright "broken". Still, the Terminator of Pokemon is still going to be deadly, and will remain one of the best scarfed Pokemon around.
Mold Breaker Excadrill is really wonderful. As a primary Ubers player, I was caught off guard by just how solid it is. I've mainly seen it wreak havoc with its Sand Rush set, and it's refreshing to see something new. The fact that it can take on levitators like Rotom-W with STAB Earthquake is awesome. Meanwhile, Excadrill's typing is still solid, netting it immunities to both Poison moves (no toxic), and Electric moves (no Thunder Wave). Combine these factors with nice offensive stats, and you have one mighty mole.
I can't wait to see these Pokemon perform well in OU this gen :)
I agree with what others have said regarding Genesect and Excadrill. These Pokemon are, without doubt, excellent and deserve high usage, however they are much more manageable this generation. Chou brought up a great point in that Genesect no longer resists priority Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch. In general, Genesect's frail defenses combined with the Steel Type nerf really cripple the idea of Genesect being outright "broken". Still, the Terminator of Pokemon is still going to be deadly, and will remain one of the best scarfed Pokemon around.
Mold Breaker Excadrill is really wonderful. As a primary Ubers player, I was caught off guard by just how solid it is. I've mainly seen it wreak havoc with its Sand Rush set, and it's refreshing to see something new. The fact that it can take on levitators like Rotom-W with STAB Earthquake is awesome. Meanwhile, Excadrill's typing is still solid, netting it immunities to both Poison moves (no toxic), and Electric moves (no Thunder Wave). Combine these factors with nice offensive stats, and you have one mighty mole.
I can't wait to see these Pokemon perform well in OU this gen :)
Genesect has 71/95/95 defenses and only one weakness... It's easier to take down now, but I wouldn't call it frail.
I definitely agree with pretty much everything Chou Toshio said on the previous page, especially about Genesect. Although this thing absolutely wrecks on the lower ladder where players seem to have little knowledge on how to deal with this thing, the higher I go up on the ladder, the harder and harder it gets to just spam U-turn or sweep first turn with Rock Polish. The teams start to become a lot bulkier, entry hazards, priority users like Talonflame, Mega Kanga, and T-Wave Thundurus-I are even more common than in the lower ladder, Heatran is everywhere because of Talonflame, so many Pokemon carry Will-O-Wisp which is really annoying, and much more. The Scarf set is still fantastic, and is arguably one of the only few consistently good Choice Scarfers that OU actually has right now, but I just don't see it being nearly as overcentralizing or devastating as it was last generation. It wasn't just the fact that its coverage moves got nerfed, it just seems that it finds a much harder time to bust through things like it could last generation, most likely due to the massive amount of bulky Pokemon in OU now, like Goodra, Aegislash, Mega Kanga, etc. Of course I still think it's a bit too early to come to a conclusion on if it's still too good for OU, but when I've been using it recently, I was surprised to see Genesect actually having trouble against more standard teams. Nevertheless, it's still Genesect, and this thing is definitely a top tier threat in OU, and personally I think it's a great addition to the tier as of now.
Now it sucks because I haven't gotten to use Manaphy, Landorus, or any of the genies, but all I can say is that I hope to god that the Aeroblast rumor is correct, or else I don't see a bright future for Tornadus-T and its counterpart this generation, because having to rely on a inaccurate STAB Hurricane sucks unless you want to sacrifice valuable team spots in order to run a lesser Politoed. Thundurus-I on the other hand, is so threatening, and for all the people saying that this thing is underwhelming, are clearly not using this thing correctly. Prankster T-Wave is stupid good, and its Nasty Plot sweeping sets are so powerful, capable of breaking through even the bulkiest Pokemon in the tier thanks to its awesome coverage. I've been swept by it countless of times, and I'm looking forward to using it. Landorus is another Pokemon I haven't gotten to try yet this generation, and I'm excited to give it another go. Sure the HP Ice nerf hurts, but it still OHKOs what it needs to OHKO, like Garchomp, Gliscor, Landorus-I, Dragonite, etc. so it's not much of a problem for it. The thing that really sucks for Landorus, is that one of its best counters, Rotom-W, is being used on pretty much every other team because of Talonflame. Although the physically defensive variants take a TON from Focus Blast, having to rely on that move to hit its #1 counter sucks. Still, I see physical and special Landorus being as good as ever this gen, and the RP set can prey on many of the Pokemon that litter the tier.
The Deoxys forms are a different story. Deoxys-D is arguably the best user of entry hazards in the tier because of its massive defenses, reliable recover, and amazing movepool. Deoxys-S on the other hand, suffers greatly from the Defog buff, as its Lead hazard sets are no longer nearly as incredible as they once were, because hazards are much easier to remove this generation. Not all is bad for Deo-S though, as I've learned that this thing is probably one of the best revenge killers in the tier, thanks to its incredibly high Speed, insane coverage, and great offensive capabilities. This thing can outspeed Scarf Genesect and destroy it with HP Fire or Fire Punch, Superpower mauls Tyranitar, Ice Beam for the Dragon-types, Psycho Boost for nuking shit, etc. It's soooo good. Definitely a cool Pokemon.
Excadrill is probably the most influential Uber Pokemon OU got this generation. I don't understand where some of you guys are coming from with Excadrill being subpar due to the weather nerf. Excadrill is the best spinner in OU, bar none, and it faces no competition from Defog users because it's just so fucking amazing at what it does. Excadrill wasn't successful just because of Sand Rush. Besides, it's not like Excadrill can't still run Sand Rash to screw with opponents that use Tyranitar, or heck, even yourself. It has 5 turns to wreck havoc. However, I think Excadrill finds its greatest success with its ability Mold Breaker, as it is able to beat Rotom-W which would normally be one of its best counters. Not only is Excadrill one of the best Rapid Spinners in the tier, but damn is this thing powerful. It hits so hard coming off of that massive 135 base Attack, and it has great coverage with Rock Slide + Earthquake + Shadow Claw. Did I mention that it can beat pretty much all of the common spin blockers in the tier? Trevanent is 2HKOed by a Life Orb Shadow Claw, Jellicent is destroyed by an EQ, and Gengar has to rely on the unreliable Focus Blast if it wants to OHKO Excadrill, and even then the rising popularity of Assault Vest Excadrill can keep Gengar from beating it altogether. Anyways, Excadrill is definitely one of the most influential past Ubers that Gen 6 has given us thus far, and I hope to see this thing quickly rise to the top of OU with little effort.
All in all, I am very happy with most of the Uber Pokemon this generation, and I'm surprised to see how manageable, but influential most of these have become. I honestly think all of these Pokemon are healthy for the OU metagame and keep the tier balanced, maybe with the exception of Deoxys-S, but it's too early to say. I personally don't mind it, nor its defensive counterpart.
Now it sucks because I haven't gotten to use Manaphy, Landorus, or any of the genies, but all I can say is that I hope to god that the Aeroblast rumor is correct, or else I don't see a bright future for Tornadus-T and its counterpart this generation, because having to rely on a inaccurate STAB Hurricane sucks unless you want to sacrifice valuable team spots in order to run a lesser Politoed. Thundurus-I on the other hand, is so threatening, and for all the people saying that this thing is underwhelming, are clearly not using this thing correctly. Prankster T-Wave is stupid good, and its Nasty Plot sweeping sets are so powerful, capable of breaking through even the bulkiest Pokemon in the tier thanks to its awesome coverage. I've been swept by it countless of times, and I'm looking forward to using it. Landorus is another Pokemon I haven't gotten to try yet this generation, and I'm excited to give it another go. Sure the HP Ice nerf hurts, but it still OHKOs what it needs to OHKO, like Garchomp, Gliscor, Landorus-I, Dragonite, etc. so it's not much of a problem for it. The thing that really sucks for Landorus, is that one of its best counters, Rotom-W, is being used on pretty much every other team because of Talonflame. Although the physically defensive variants take a TON from Focus Blast, having to rely on that move to hit its #1 counter sucks. Still, I see physical and special Landorus being as good as ever this gen, and the RP set can prey on many of the Pokemon that litter the tier.
The Deoxys forms are a different story. Deoxys-D is arguably the best user of entry hazards in the tier because of its massive defenses, reliable recover, and amazing movepool. Deoxys-S on the other hand, suffers greatly from the Defog buff, as its Lead hazard sets are no longer nearly as incredible as they once were, because hazards are much easier to remove this generation. Not all is bad for Deo-S though, as I've learned that this thing is probably one of the best revenge killers in the tier, thanks to its incredibly high Speed, insane coverage, and great offensive capabilities. This thing can outspeed Scarf Genesect and destroy it with HP Fire or Fire Punch, Superpower mauls Tyranitar, Ice Beam for the Dragon-types, Psycho Boost for nuking shit, etc. It's soooo good. Definitely a cool Pokemon.
Excadrill is probably the most influential Uber Pokemon OU got this generation. I don't understand where some of you guys are coming from with Excadrill being subpar due to the weather nerf. Excadrill is the best spinner in OU, bar none, and it faces no competition from Defog users because it's just so fucking amazing at what it does. Excadrill wasn't successful just because of Sand Rush. Besides, it's not like Excadrill can't still run Sand Rash to screw with opponents that use Tyranitar, or heck, even yourself. It has 5 turns to wreck havoc. However, I think Excadrill finds its greatest success with its ability Mold Breaker, as it is able to beat Rotom-W which would normally be one of its best counters. Not only is Excadrill one of the best Rapid Spinners in the tier, but damn is this thing powerful. It hits so hard coming off of that massive 135 base Attack, and it has great coverage with Rock Slide + Earthquake + Shadow Claw. Did I mention that it can beat pretty much all of the common spin blockers in the tier? Trevanent is 2HKOed by a Life Orb Shadow Claw, Jellicent is destroyed by an EQ, and Gengar has to rely on the unreliable Focus Blast if it wants to OHKO Excadrill, and even then the rising popularity of Assault Vest Excadrill can keep Gengar from beating it altogether. Anyways, Excadrill is definitely one of the most influential past Ubers that Gen 6 has given us thus far, and I hope to see this thing quickly rise to the top of OU with little effort.
All in all, I am very happy with most of the Uber Pokemon this generation, and I'm surprised to see how manageable, but influential most of these have become. I honestly think all of these Pokemon are healthy for the OU metagame and keep the tier balanced, maybe with the exception of Deoxys-S, but it's too early to say. I personally don't mind it, nor its defensive counterpart.
Last edited:
Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Rock Polish
- Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb/HP Ice
This thing is as deadly as ever, laughs at burns and never fails to catch people off-guard with it's special set.
It can scare out lots of mons to grab that Rock Polish and only fears Ice Shard users after that. Sludge Bomb is great for taking out bulky Togekiss as it grabs the Sheer Force boost but HP Ice is also good for dragons or other Landorus. Focus Blast if you want to, however I personally find it's accuracy too shaky to risk.
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Rock Polish
- Focus Blast/Sludge Bomb/HP Ice
This thing is as deadly as ever, laughs at burns and never fails to catch people off-guard with it's special set.
It can scare out lots of mons to grab that Rock Polish and only fears Ice Shard users after that. Sludge Bomb is great for taking out bulky Togekiss as it grabs the Sheer Force boost but HP Ice is also good for dragons or other Landorus. Focus Blast if you want to, however I personally find it's accuracy too shaky to risk.
I'm almost certain that Deoxys-D was UU for a period. Personally I wouldn't be too surprised if it dropped down to UU once more (if it ever did... Confirmation I'm not crazy would be nice). I mean, okay, it can set up screens, set up some spikes and rocks, and Recover off damage. And 50/160/160 is nice, slightly better than Carbink (that gem rock thing... Generation 6's Shuckle) but SE attacks play havoc with it, which are sadly quite common. I don't know. I found it weird that this guy was Ubers at all. I do expect it to descend from Ubers permanently because things have changed a lot from the D/P days.
Actually, I really dislike RP on Landorus right now. I ran RP for a long time on the ladder, just because RP was always so ridiculous in BW. However, when playing RP Landorus, you naturally never use RP unless you achieve one of the two conditions:
1) You've killed everything that can hit you at +2 OR,
2) You have enough HP to survive a hit from their ONE remaining priority users and OHKO it in exchange.
It took me forever to notice it while playing, but in countless games I almost never achieved EITHER of these conditions. The problem is priority. It takes forever to achieve condition 1, just because you'll often see 1 or 2 priority users IN ADDITION to the Pokemon that naturally outspeed Landorus-- so taking them all down before setting up RP just isn't worthwhile (by that time, the game's practically over already).
Condition 2 is also really hard, just because of how frequently Landorus has to take SR damage, burn, or other weak attacks/passive damage. Landorus' typing, as we all know, is such a good defensive typing that teammates naturally want to rely on it for some pivoting and taking advantage of those resistances. Even taking resisted hits and minimal passive damage though, it's just too hard to keep Landorus healthy enough to set up RP by the time they have only 1 priority user, as priority attacks just hit too hard now. Keeping a Landorus above 60% until the end game is really hard.
Finally, because of how bulky the metagame is, on the off chance that you do get rid of their priority users, it's often the case that Rock Polish becomes pointless-- everything they have left on their team is naturally SLOWER than Landorus. Priority is so popular to fix Speed, it's not uncommon to see whole teams of Pokemon naturally slower than Landorus. I've even won several games just because for whatever reason, enemy players weren't using +Speed on their Garchomp/Terrakion/Starmie, and Landorus pulled off a sweep.
At the same time, I found myself constantly cursing Landorus' coverage. It was so ingrained in my head that Landorus needs Rock Polish that I never questioned it-- but one day I came to the epiphany to just remove RP for another coverage move. Ever since then, Landorus' performance on my team reached a completely new height! I totally swear by 4 attack Landorus.
By the way, I also tested U-turn, but honestly, it's really not that useful. It just doesn't hit that hard, it can't wall break anything. All of Landorus' major checks shrug it off like nothing (physically defensive Rotom...), and Celebi DOESN'T EXIST in this meta (lol). U-turn was a Sheer Force Lando gimmick in 5th gen, mostly used for destroying Celebi; but this is a metagame where Landorus needs all the coverage it can get, and Sludge Wave has new found value. Meanwhile, every switch out is one switch closer to being in OHKO range for Bullet Punch / Extreme Speed / Sucker Punch / Shadow Sneak / Whatever. In 5th Gen Landorus was considered one of the most hazard-resistance Pokemon in OU, but in XY, that 12% from every hit by SR is a LOT heavier.
edit: It somehow totally slipped my mind that Landorus gets Calm Mind. THAT I want to test. Seems like it could be the most promising set up move for Landorus in this gen.
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 232 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 250-295 (83.61 - 98.66%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
1) You've killed everything that can hit you at +2 OR,
2) You have enough HP to survive a hit from their ONE remaining priority users and OHKO it in exchange.
It took me forever to notice it while playing, but in countless games I almost never achieved EITHER of these conditions. The problem is priority. It takes forever to achieve condition 1, just because you'll often see 1 or 2 priority users IN ADDITION to the Pokemon that naturally outspeed Landorus-- so taking them all down before setting up RP just isn't worthwhile (by that time, the game's practically over already).
Condition 2 is also really hard, just because of how frequently Landorus has to take SR damage, burn, or other weak attacks/passive damage. Landorus' typing, as we all know, is such a good defensive typing that teammates naturally want to rely on it for some pivoting and taking advantage of those resistances. Even taking resisted hits and minimal passive damage though, it's just too hard to keep Landorus healthy enough to set up RP by the time they have only 1 priority user, as priority attacks just hit too hard now. Keeping a Landorus above 60% until the end game is really hard.
Finally, because of how bulky the metagame is, on the off chance that you do get rid of their priority users, it's often the case that Rock Polish becomes pointless-- everything they have left on their team is naturally SLOWER than Landorus. Priority is so popular to fix Speed, it's not uncommon to see whole teams of Pokemon naturally slower than Landorus. I've even won several games just because for whatever reason, enemy players weren't using +Speed on their Garchomp/Terrakion/Starmie, and Landorus pulled off a sweep.
At the same time, I found myself constantly cursing Landorus' coverage. It was so ingrained in my head that Landorus needs Rock Polish that I never questioned it-- but one day I came to the epiphany to just remove RP for another coverage move. Ever since then, Landorus' performance on my team reached a completely new height! I totally swear by 4 attack Landorus.
By the way, I also tested U-turn, but honestly, it's really not that useful. It just doesn't hit that hard, it can't wall break anything. All of Landorus' major checks shrug it off like nothing (physically defensive Rotom...), and Celebi DOESN'T EXIST in this meta (lol). U-turn was a Sheer Force Lando gimmick in 5th gen, mostly used for destroying Celebi; but this is a metagame where Landorus needs all the coverage it can get, and Sludge Wave has new found value. Meanwhile, every switch out is one switch closer to being in OHKO range for Bullet Punch / Extreme Speed / Sucker Punch / Shadow Sneak / Whatever. In 5th Gen Landorus was considered one of the most hazard-resistance Pokemon in OU, but in XY, that 12% from every hit by SR is a LOT heavier.
edit: It somehow totally slipped my mind that Landorus gets Calm Mind. THAT I want to test. Seems like it could be the most promising set up move for Landorus in this gen.
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. 232 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 250-295 (83.61 - 98.66%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Last edited:
Hmm, I may forgo Rock Polish on my Lando for a few matches to see whether it makes a difference, however as I tend to use him as my opening sweeper I think relying on others not to run timid/jolly natures is a bit farfetch'd.
One thing he DOES do for my team besides wreck face is act as an awesome lure for HP Ice users which I abuse heartily with my Weakness Policy Dragonite.
On the same team I have been running Excadrill and I'm finding it a little.....meh. Perhaps I'm running into folks that are prepared for the Mold Breaker EQs so I never get the chance to smack a Rotom or Gengar around but now that Steel typing has lost it's Dark and Ghost resistance I'm finding it feels a lot frailer these days forcing me to play it very conservatively if I want to keep it around to spin.
So much meh in fact that I'm considering swapping it out for Mega Blastoise as my spinner.
One thing he DOES do for my team besides wreck face is act as an awesome lure for HP Ice users which I abuse heartily with my Weakness Policy Dragonite.
On the same team I have been running Excadrill and I'm finding it a little.....meh. Perhaps I'm running into folks that are prepared for the Mold Breaker EQs so I never get the chance to smack a Rotom or Gengar around but now that Steel typing has lost it's Dark and Ghost resistance I'm finding it feels a lot frailer these days forcing me to play it very conservatively if I want to keep it around to spin.
So much meh in fact that I'm considering swapping it out for Mega Blastoise as my spinner.
^Relying on enemy natures isn't the idea. That was just a humorous anecdote. The point is it's not uncommon to go into the end game with nothing on the opponent's side remaining by Skarmory / Heatran / Treve-whatever-holloween-tree-thing / Diggersby / etc. It's not uncommon to end up in a position where RP would be pointless just because everything that outspeeds it on the enemy team only does so with priority.
Manaphy needs so much more usage. Everything is pretty slow atm, and very few things check it. The lack of Rain means it can also free up the slot that previously held Rest to use Energy Ball. It's also got enough bulk to tank most priority.
On that note, most slow, bulky things in general got a boost since its either priority or 0 speed.
On that note, most slow, bulky things in general got a boost since its either priority or 0 speed.
Not really. Exca's running more Mold Breaker than Sand Rush right now, which means that its Earthquake hits through Levitate.
God, that's so true. I don't know how I got my rating up to a decent level without encountering more Mold Breakers lol. Disregard what I said, except that Bronzong is still pretty good in general.
Yep I meant Manaphy (Facepalm), and I'm pretty sure Deo-S is really good because the suicide lead + Psycho Boost(Spikes/Stealth Rock/Taunt/ Psycho Boost), the psycho boost + Superpower set (Superpower, HP Fire / Fire Punch, Psycho Boost, Ice Beam) and finally the hazards + HP fire (Stealth Rock / Spikes / HP Fire / Magic Coat <--- Basically return the hazards of Ferrathron and co then HP Fire + setting up) which are the 3 most popular usages that I've seen, the bulky leftovers set is really rare and almost never seen. I mean I tried the Psycho Boost + Superpower set on PS and the complains ... too much bro
- Status