Frozen to the Bone

[jeta]

Frozen to the Bone​

Hello Smogonites! Now that we have the generic beginning out of the way, I would like to ask for your knowledge on my team that I made. It has some obvious problems that I don't know how to fix as my team members all help me in some way. I have 2 glaring weaknesses which are ice and fighting. Both Dragons serve a purpose as well as Landorus so I am stuck with 2, 4x pokemon weak to ice and one weak to ice. Anyway here is my team as of now.

Team at a glance

Tyranitar`Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Ev's: 208 HP / 200 Atk. / 100 Sp. Def.
Nature: Gentle
Moves:
~Stealth Rock
~Ice Beam
~Pursuit
~Stone Edge​

Why Tyranitar? Well more and more I am starting to think that my team would be better off without it... Sadly only half of my team is immune to it and my main stallers/ walls are not immune to it. They actually benefit more from rain than anything else. But I have the dilemma with my Lairon then... but I will get to that later.

Rotom-W`Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Ev's: 84 HP / 252 Sp. Atk. / 172 Spe.
Nature: Modest
Moves:
~Hydro Pump
~Hidden Power Fire
~Volt Switch
~Trick​

Why Rotom-W? I really like Rotom-W. Water is my favorite pokemon type so obviously I like Rotom-W. I also like flying and electric in that order. Rotom-W is just really cool too. It can burn things, it can get switch initiative, it can recover, emphasis on can, it can also hit things kind of hard. With the speed ev's it hits 250 speed which I think is a good number. Sandstorm hurts Rotom-W, while rain helps with the STAB Hydro Pump. This is now not the only pokemon on my team not weak to fighting or ice, so it helps there.

Landorus-T`Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Ev's: 4 HP / 252 Atk. / 252 Spe.
Nature: Adamant
Moves:
~Rock Polish
~Swords Dance
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge​

Why Landorus-T? It kind of reminded me of Doryzou, it just doesn't get the free speed boost. It still has monstrous attack and can cleanly 2HKO Ferrothorn after a single Swords Dance, not that it switches in, I just set up in its face. I use Leftovers because I would only get in a few hits if I had Life Orb as it would die too quickly, besides its attack is already high enough anyway. What I really need is Zoom Lens or something because having to rely on Stone Edge is like, you already know, never mind.

Lucario`Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
Ev's: 4 HP / 252 Atk. / 252 Spe.
Nature: Jolly
Moves:
~Swords Dance
~Close Combat
~Extreme Speed
~Bullet Punch​

Why Lucario? Lucario replaces my hopes and dreams of bringing a new pokemon to the metagame. Sadly the terrible typing of Lairon made it clear that sadly it isn't meant for OU. Anyway, Lucario is a secondary sweeper that provides a strong STAB fighting move to throw around, something that my team lacked before.

Jirachi`Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Ev's: 252 HP / 100 Atk. / 156 Sp. Def.
Nature: Careful
Moves:
~Thunder Wave
~Iron Head
~U-Turn
~Wish​

Why Jirachi? Well, as LilOuOn said, it helps with my ice and stealth rock weakness that I had with my Latios. It also isn't susceptible to Pursuit trapping like Latios was. It also helps by passing wishes to allies that need some extra health. It also can be a haxor and also help Dragonite in that way by spreading more para around the field.

Dragonite`Leftovers
Abililty: Multiscale
Ev's: 252 HP / 200 Def. / 56 Sp. Def.
Nature: Calm
Moves:
~Roost
~Substitute
~Dragon Tail
~Thunder Wave​

Why Dragonite? This Dragonite is such a pain for the opponent to take down. It is really brought down from its potential by sandstorm and Stealth Rocks though. Yes it is another pokemon weak to ice, Stealth Rock, and sandstorm.



This team in general would be stronger with rain I think but I am not sure. Too many pokemon are weak to similar things but they all serve very different rolls that would be hard to replace. I am stuck and I need help from you Smogonites out there that have taken time to read this post and think about what would be good for this team. All constructive criticism is welcome, and all suggestions will be considered. Thanks in advance.

 

[LilOu]

Hey man, nice team!

I can see that you are having Choice Scarf on latios so you can revenge kill, but...if your opponent switches-in tyranitar, your latios is dead. (Just spam pursuit) And you lose your scarfer.

Your major threat is Conkeldurr (i dont know how to spell it). He can use drain punch and also ice punch (introduced on BW2, which is common right now so gliscor does not wall him). The parahax on him is not going to work because he has GUTS or he can have Flame orb, anulating any kind of status that you're trying to imput.

My suggestion is to change latios for Sp. Defensive Jirachi and give Rotom-w choice scarf. This allows you to resist Conkeldurr attacks, also you have ice resistance (with Jirachi) and 1 less fighting weakness.

Hope i helped you

EDIT: Jirachi + Dragonite is a nice core, each one cover the other weakness.

 

[Electrolyte]

Hey man! Nice team you've got here. My input:

Lairon seems like a weak link in your team. Sure it has great defense but it doesn't provide you with any coverage whatsoever and even drags your team behind because of its horrible x4 weakness to Fighting and Ground, both of which are very common in OU. Of course, you still need a Steel type, so that you can counter your ice type weakness. I would recommend using SD Lucario instead of Lairon.

Lucario @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+spe, -atk)
~Swords Dance
~Close Combat
~Extremespeed
~Crunch / Bullet Punch

This pokemon has very good synergy with your team. Its Ground, Fighting, and Fire weaknesses are all covered by both Dragonite and Latios, so it can function as a good offensive pivot. Lucario takes care of your ice type weakness well; taking nothing from Ice Beam and replying with a super effective STAB Close Combat. Swords Dance boosts its attack to extreme levels, extreme enough for Extremespeed to revenge kill a lot of the metagame. Crunch can be used to hit Ghost types, while Bullet Punch is powerful priority that is super effective to Ice Types.

 

[jeta]

In response to LilOuOn,

I tested out your suggestions a little on Pokemon Showdown until it started playing shenanigans on me. I ended up going 2 and 1, and I really liked the change. I changed Rotom-W's move set a little because of the Scarf. I will update the main post after I finish with this response. I also like the Jirachi because, well, who wouldn't? Thanks for the suggestions!

In response to Electrolyte,

It will be hard, but I think I can part with the Lairon. I haven't actually tested it out yet, because of the Pokemon Showdown shenanigans, but I will soon. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Avatar Korra]

Hello! Pretty creative team you have here.

Despite being creative, however, I feel Lairon does more harm to this team than good. With his massive weakness to Fighting and Ground types, he still gets destroyed pretty easily, even with Eviolite. Substitute ruins your Sturdy ability as well, so you'll get OHKO'd quite easily.

Perhaps switch him for a Ferrothorn :3? Ferrothorn can pull off the "Bulky steel type" role much better than Lairon. His main weakness, Fire, is handled nicely by the rest of your team. I recommend this set:

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Relaxed
252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD
~ Leech Seed
~ Protect
~ Power Whip
~ Gyro Ball

 

[XxpokemonmasterXx]

Hello. IMO dragonite is completely outclassed by Salamance. Dragon Flying types are 4 times weak to ice and weak to SR, they shouldn't try to be defensive.

And if you're gonna be offensive, Salamence is faster and all around better.

Salamence @ life orb
Naive nature
252 atk 4 sp atk 252 speed

Outrage
Dragon dance
Fire blast
Earthquake

This is a very good wall breaker and will help you out a lot
Hope I helped

 

[nob]

Hello. IMO dragonite is completely outclassed by Salamance. Dragon Flying types are 4 times weak to ice and weak to SR, they shouldn't try to be defensive.

And if you're gonna be offensive, Salamence is faster and all around better.

Salamence @ life orb
Naive nature
252 atk 4 sp atk 252 speed

Outrage
Dragon dance
Fire blast
Earthquake

This is a very good wall breaker and will help you out a lot
Hope I helped

I highly disagree. With Multiscale, dragonite is plenty defensive. Salamence MAY be better as a DD sweeper (Which I actually disagree with, because of Multiscale), but Dragonite isn't a DD sweeper, it's a parashuffler.

To jeta, I would recommend Lucario over Ferrothorn, because your team isn't much of a stall team, and having one random wall in there won't do you much good. Synergy doesn't apply just to typing, it also applies to roles.

 

[DaRkRaii]

Hello. IMO dragonite is completely outclassed by Salamance. Dragon Flying types are 4 times weak to ice and weak to SR, they shouldn't try to be defensive.

And if you're gonna be offensive, Salamence is faster and all around better.

Salamence @ life orb
Naive nature
252 atk 4 sp atk 252 speed

Outrage
Dragon dance
Fire blast
Earthquake

This is a very good wall breaker and will help you out a lot
Hope I helped

You really know nothing about BW do you? Its the resident "Kind Dragon of OU". Best Dragon of the generation. Salamence has its niches but Dragonite completely outclasses.

 

[LilOu]

In response to LilOuOn,

I tested out your suggestions a little on Pokemon Showdown until it started playing shenanigans on me. I ended up going 2 and 1, and I really liked the change. I changed Rotom-W's move set a little because of the Scarf. I will update the main post after I finish with this response. I also like the Jirachi because, well, who wouldn't? Thanks for the suggestions!

Man! Im so glad that it worked...

The set for scarf rotom-w is:

252 satk / 252 spe / 4 def @choice scarf
-Hydro Pump
-Volt switch
-Trick
-Hidden Power [ice] or [fire]

P.S: Yeah, i love Jirachi :D

 

[TheStarRapper]

Though I generally agree with Dragonite over Salamence, especially considering the nature of this team, it is worth noting that Dragonite has trouble maintaining its Multiscale in sandstorm. Additionally, as you noted he is weak to SR, which impedes his potential as a wall. As for putting a spinner on your team, I'm not sure where you would fit it in. Though she lacks the same great resistances as Rotom, Choice Scarf Starmie is a passable replacement. Finding another special wall and or phaser might be worth it, the first thing that came to mind is Bulky Gyarados but he is weak to SR as well. Blissey or Chansey, otherwise all purpose walls, cannot phaze but can provide wish support :).

So yeah, I would recommend getting a spinner, removing Ttar so Dragonite doesnt suffer sandstorm, or changing Dragonite himself. You could also change Dragonite to a more offensive variant like choice band.

 

[jeta]

I've been doing some thinking and testing and more thinking, and I have made a few decisions.


I am going to keep the Dragonite as I really can't replace it. It does have excellent defensive capabilities due to Multiscale, and it is even easier when it is faster after the opponent is paralyzed as my Dragonite can roost to full health and get rid of its flying type. So if hit with an ice move after a roost, it is really hitting with neuteral damage. It really is a good asset.


Anyway, I am trying out the Lucario and am liking it. It gives me powerful priority while giving me a powerful STAB fighting move to work with, which I lacked before.


I still don't know what to do with Tyranitar... I was thinking of just giving it Unnerve, its other ability. I like the surprise Ice Beam on unsuspecting Landorus, and the pursuit, and Stealth Rock, the only thing I wouldn't miss as I think about losing Tyranitar is the infamous, shaky accuracy of Stone Edge. I think Donphan would be a replacement though if I had to change it to something else. It has an ice move, Stealth Rock, and Rapid Spin. But tell me what you guys think, I am still not sure. The only thing I am sure about is getting rid of Sand Steam, I have decided it does more bad than good for this team in particular.

 

[LilOu]

I've been doing some thinking and testing and more thinking, and I have made a few decisions.


I am going to keep the Dragonite as I really can't replace it. It does have excellent defensive capabilities due to Multiscale, and it is even easier when it is faster after the opponent is paralyzed as my Dragonite can roost to full health and get rid of its flying type. So if hit with an ice move after a roost, it is really hitting with neuteral damage. It really is a good asset.


Anyway, I am trying out the Lucario and am liking it. It gives me powerful priority while giving me a powerful STAB fighting move to work with, which I lacked before.


I still don't know what to do with Tyranitar... I was thinking of just giving it Unnerve, its other ability. I like the surprise Ice Beam on unsuspecting Landorus, and the pursuit, and Stealth Rock, the only thing I wouldn't miss as I think about losing Tyranitar is the infamous, shaky accuracy of Stone Edge. I think Donphan would be a replacement though if I had to change it to something else. It has an ice move, Stealth Rock, and Rapid Spin. But tell me what you guys think, I am still not sure. The only thing I am sure about is getting rid of Sand Steam, I have decided it does more bad than good for this team in particular.

Man, Tyranitar is just there to set up sand, why taking rid of it? Unnerve t-tar is as bad as Life Orb Shedinja, and if you say that sandstorm only carries more problems to your team, try replacing t-tar with Politoed. He set up rain, the rain helps Rotom-W with hydro pump, making it a beast, also divides the effectiveness of fire type moves against Lucario and Jirachi.

I don't know how this sand team ended up as a rain team.

 

[Stone RG]

The first thing i saw in your team is a complete and utter weakness to Sub Protect Gliscor, sorry man but this guy stalls you to death. Now, i will reccomend you 2 switches on your team, that can help you patch this up.

The first one is going for politoed instead of ttar, i agree with Lil, definitely your team functions more as rain than sand. You can go for the defensive set so it lasts more against other weather starters, as well as alwyas winning the weather war against tyranitar.

Politoed@Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Bold
Moves:
~Scald
~Toxic
~Perish Song
~Protect

The next one is in the case you opt for not switching ttar for poli.


The next one id say is going for Expert Belt Landorus, its because the regular lando is just a lure for gliscor, when you HP Ice and BAM. 6-5

Landorus@Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
Ev's: 228 Att / 252 Spe / 28 SpA
Nature: Naive
Moves:
~Earthquake
~Hidden Power [Ice]
~U-Turn
~Stone Edge