But can it survive Hawlucha? If not at this rate I'm thinking nothing can stop it.I think I found a 'mon that's normally bad, but is hilariously anti-meta here:
Anti Meta (Claydol) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earthquake
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin / Stone Edge
Beats any A-Raichu without Knock Off. Has ridiculous coverage on most of the meta. Good check to ElectroSpam.
Unburden is an issue but it is susceptible to priority moves, which everyone can abuse in this meta.Hey guys, please suspect or ban Unburden or Swift Swim
Not always the case. For example, take a look at Accelgor, who has Water Shuriken as its own priority (which also potentially breaks through Sturdy/Focus Sash) and Hawlucha, who doesn't even need to work around a Focus Sash as a STAB Sky Attack, in a meta so flooded with SpDef bulk mons, can effectively remove a threat away.Unburden is an issue but it is susceptible to priority moves, which everyone can abuse in this meta.
While it is a Soul Dew, it is easily crippled by Knock Off and they are usually vulnerable to Physical moves because they usually invest heavily into Special Defense to have maximum damage output.I think we should take a look at Assault Vest. Currently Av is basically gen 6 Soul Dew that you can put on any specially defensive mon and it will be better than any other item it's actually funny. The only drawback is you can't use status moves but that's a minimal drawback when you consider you basically have an AV, Choice Specs and Choice Band on at the same time, all while being able to switch up moves. When I built a team I can hardly justify NOT using AV on a specially defensive mon because it's that powerful. I personally think maybe an item clause should be implemented but at the same time AV is so good that I can argue for a ban.
I think this is not a good argument why AV is completely fine. Any mon is crippled with knock off, and even though knock off counters soul dew, it was still banned anyways. Secondly, you don't even need to fully invest in SpDef to use assault vest. Hell, you can run offensive assault vest nihilego and it would not only be a tank, but a fast special attacker as well. Sure you might say "why would you run av when you can run choice scarf" but you should consider that assault vest lets you switch moves and make you very bulky. Also keep in mind in general special defense is higher than speed. Eg the fastest mon is electrode, with 150 base speed. There are plenty of defensive mons that exceeds that, like toxapex, tyranitar, regice, etc.While it is a Soul Dew, it is easily crippled by Knock Off and they are usually vulnerable to Physical moves because they usually invest heavily into Special Defense to have maximum damage output.
I agree with you entirely, just meant to say Knock Off doesn't completely cripple AV users bc usually they deal nuke damage first prior to that happens.I think this is not a good argument why AV is completely fine. Any mon is crippled with knock off, and even though knock off counters soul dew, it was still banned anyways. Secondly, you don't even need to fully invest in SpDef to use assault vest. Hell, you can run offensive assault vest nihilego and it would not only be a tank, but a fast special attacker as well. Sure you might say "why would you run choice scarf when you can run av" but you should consider that assault vest lets you switch moves and make you very bulky. Also keep in mind in general special defense is higher than speed. Eg the fastest mon is electrode, with 150 base speed. There are plenty of defensive mons that exceeds that, like toxapex, tyranitar, regice, etc.
Also keep in mind most of these very fast mons are usually frail, so they usually run sash. And if they do run scarf, even with max hp they will die easily to any mon with assault vest and even a relatively low SpDef like ~120 or so.
While this is cool, it has to setup first, and before then there is no reason to use it over Kingdra or Seismitoad. Also, I think Sash > Life orb, as it doesn't really need the extra power, but it needs to guarantee the setup to not be outclassed.Okay, I just want to take some time to talk about an amazing rain nuking glass cannon for this meta...Luvdisc.
View attachment 78798
Luv Hurts (Luvdisc) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Agility
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Heart Stamp/Draining Kiss (if you're ballsy)
If you can get off one Agility boost, while in the rain, with full EVs and IVs, Luvdisc gets a Speed stat of 1288. While lacking any true coverage, as long as it stays alive this thing will demolish plenty of mons as long as they don't have anything like priority or anything named Volcanion. Some damage calculations:
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb Luvdisc Surf vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 292-346 (82.9 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb Luvdisc Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 686-808 (212.3 - 250.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb Luvdisc Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Serperior in Rain: 400-472 (137.4 - 162.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb Luvdisc Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 195-230 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb Luvdisc Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges in Rain: 407-481 (113 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Volcanion basically shits on it:
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb Luvdisc Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcanion: 92-109 (30.5 - 36.2%) -- 59.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Luvdisc in Rain: 315-371 (108.9 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So if you can manage to keep Luvdisc alive for one turn to set up, you can potentially sweep entire teams with it. It finally has a use other than Heart Scale farming and I love it.
So you counterplay broken weather by running broken weather? How does that help?Unburden is an issue but it is susceptible to priority moves, which everyone can abuse in this meta.
Weather team can be countereplayed by sandstorm or others.
To be more specific, common weather-changing supports such as Tyranitar or Torkoal can somewhat alleviate this issue, although I do not deny the fact that things become a nuke under the rain, such as Floatzel, Luvdisc, or Seismitoad.So you counterplay broken weather by running broken weather? How does that help?
The problem with TTar is that it doesn't stop sand teams, which are also broken.To be more specific, common weather-changing supports such as Tyranitar or Torkoal can somewhat alleviate this issue, although I do not deny the fact that things become a nuke under the rain, such as Floatzel, Luvdisc, or Seismitoad.
Probably it is another considerable next suspect option after Araquanid.
So, how exactly do you plan on countering Floatzen in Rain? Using other broken stuff? Because if:So how about instead of everyone saying the same pointless thing about (possibly)broken mons and strategies, we start talking about how to counter and adapt to said things and get some semi intelligent discussion on this thread.
Becasue there is no room for adaptations that doesn't require you to follow a specific pattern, thus hindering teambuilding. You have nothing against Swift Swim, Chrolophyll, Sand Rush or Slush Rush unless you bring out your own weather activator Pokemon, but depending on your team it might actually do more harm than good (example: bringing a sun setter when one of your Pokémon relies on Dry Skin to save others, or a sand team when you have a Focus Sash holder, so on); you can only stop Surge Surfer by bringing out another Pokemon that activates other terrains, but said weather can destroy your own strategy too if you rely on Ground moves or priority attacks; you can only stop an Unburden target with priority if it relies on Focus Sash activation (but if it has a priority attack as well, like Accelgor with Water Shuriken, you're left with either a dead team or having to rely on ExtremeSpeed), because if it's one that can make use of other tactics to activate their abilities, like Power Herb Sky Attack Hawlucha or King's Rock Fling Sceptile, unless you have something that is somehow able to check their movepools, that's game. While teambuilding efficiently so as to not fall prey to common threats can be defined as rule of thumb, the threats mentioned demand you to reserve one or more slots in your team to specifically deal with them (and hope they actually work and won't just get shut down by the-counters-of-the-counters), and such hinderance is considered one condition to support a suspect and ban.So how about instead of everyone saying the same pointless thing about (possibly)broken mons and strategies, we start talking about how to counter and adapt to said things and get some semi intelligent discussion on this thread.
I would suggest Play Rough instead of Toxic. Keep in mind that, due to Gen 7 mechanics, Prankster does nothing against Dark Types and should work particularly well against AV Tyranitars where otherwise you would be forced to switch.I came up with this really trolly set and a good team member in general:
Klefki @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave
Set up reflect and light screen + light clay. Thunder Wave is there to cripple the really fast mons (Ninjask, Accelgor, Electrode etc.)Foul Play is the trolly part and uses the opponents attack (which is probably enormous) and it should kill the ones that don't have huge defense.Foul Play doesn't work in this. I replaced it with Toxic to make sure those sweepers don't stay in too long.
Yeah didn't think of that. Also Toxic doesn't work when you already have Thunder Wave.I would suggest Play Rough instead of Toxic. Keep in mind that, due to Gen 7 mechanics, Prankster does nothing against Dark Types and should work particularly well against AV Tyranitars where otherwise you would be forced to switch.