I'm pretty sure AV Tyranitar will still be used quite a lot due to the bulk it gets in sand and all of the other benefits it has besides just being a Raichu check. I can't post now because I'm at school but yeah.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame Full Potential
- Thread starter nv
- Start date
True. Also, I was thinking Tapu Koko would lose usage, as the participant for its ability got banned. But, all that happened was that it got better.
I can see Tapu Koko enjoying the lack of raichu simply because opposing raichu were a real nuisance.
Yeah, I agree. Running Koko by itself pre-ban was really risky, as you had to play smart with it so you weren't swept by the opponent's Raichu.
Gonna put here some good 'mons I found.
This guy becomes pretty good, with Levitate already removing it's *4 weakness, leaving only two weakness and a nuke in Overheat.
Of course, run AV for this guy.
Give this guy some Eviolite, and then perishtrap everything. Cause prankster.
The speed is pretty good, but you can get access Ice Shard, and also Focus Sash/Destiny Bond combo is available.
Sheer Force + Eviolite = Late-game sweeper. Haven't used much of him, but he could become very powerful when needed.
I had noticed this beast had a higher defense, and that is all the motivation you need to think about running this.
P.S. You could also run a Last Resort set for Furfrou, such as one here:
Furfrou (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Last Resort
Of course, Ghost types wall it.
This guy becomes pretty good, with Levitate already removing it's *4 weakness, leaving only two weakness and a nuke in Overheat.
Of course, run AV for this guy.
Give this guy some Eviolite, and then perishtrap everything. Cause prankster.
The speed is pretty good, but you can get access Ice Shard, and also Focus Sash/Destiny Bond combo is available.
Sheer Force + Eviolite = Late-game sweeper. Haven't used much of him, but he could become very powerful when needed.
I had noticed this beast had a higher defense, and that is all the motivation you need to think about running this.
P.S. You could also run a Last Resort set for Furfrou, such as one here:
Furfrou (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Last Resort
Of course, Ghost types wall it.
Last edited:
Actually, Marowak STILL has to run Attack because Thick Club explicitly doubles its Attack, so while 110 Huge Power would be cool, you don't get anything that sweet.
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rock Polish
- Psychic
- Drain Punch
- Fire Blast
So this is a pretty cool set that I came up with yesterday. Mewnium Z gives you Genesis Supernova which is a 185bp move that summons psychic terrain. Rock Polish brings Mew to 656 speed, enough to outspeed every scarfer in the tier besides Ninjask and Electrode. Drain Punch helps out against Tyranitar and Chansey while also giving Mew a chance to recover. Fire Blast is for all the steel types in the tier that would wall Mew otherwise. The thing that's really clean about this set is that Psychic Terrain blocks priority, which means that things like Kecleon or Dusclops can't revengekill you anymore. However it also blocks your own priority which is a downside. The thing that sucks the most about this set tho, is that Mew has to run Psychic instead of Psyshock to get Genesis Supernova, meaning that it'll get walled by Sylveon and other Mons with AV. This set also struggles against Psychics, which makes AV TTar a good partner, because it can wall most Psychics and trap them with Pursuit.
The great thing about this OM is you find some Pokemon have some surprising moves they can learn that they may have a chance of using in this game.
Bastiodon actually has a good range of special moves such as Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast and Flash Cannon (for Fairies), as well as great physical moves like Earthquake. Slap an Assault Vest and it can do some work with a 138 Special Defense stat (or a 168 Defense stat if another teammate is using Assault Vest). I find it's a great answer to Boomburst Swellow- it hasSoundproof to completely block Scrappy Boomburst. Otherwise, Sturdy is also useful for a 2 turn guarantee (barring Fake Out/hazards) since Rock/Steel is such an unfortunate typing.
Oranguru has some interesting coverage for a Psychic type. With a 110 Special Defense, you can use Assault Vest and have the choice of Psychic/Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball and now Earthquake/Rock Slide to the mix if you need it.
Ledian....is still bad but this will be as useful as it can be. It can now actually use Iron Fist! It can utilise its highest stat- a 110 Special Defense and combine it with Assault Vest. It has access to all the elemental punches for some good coverage (Thunderpunch/Icepunch is solid while Fire Punch is great for Steels). Mach Punch for some priority revenge killing while Drain Punch can surprisingly heal a lot against the right target. Knock Off is also great utility. It's best STAB move is Bug Buzz (although U-turn pivoting can be decent). Unfortunately, it doesn't learn any good Flying moves. But yeah..now with Item Clause, someone else probably needs Assault Vest anyway.
Drampa's known for its great movepool, but now it has the chance to use physical coverage as well! It has respectable 91 Special Defense so you can arm it with an Assault Vest to soften blows from Electro Ball (that poor 36 Speed..). It can now use moves such as Earthquake and Play Rough (very nice offensive types) to add to the nice coverage of Special moves such as Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast, Shadow Ball, Draco Meteor, Hurricane, Focus Blast and Surf.
Probably for a Trick Room team, but Rampardos has a great special movepool that it can possibly use. Fire Blast, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt can be used with Sheer Force variants, and it also has access to Surf. There's also Focus Blast if you're being ballsy (hey you're using Rampardos) but Hammer Arm is probably better for a Trick Room sweeper.
Alakazam can have a callback to the GSC days and use the Elemental punches if you want specific coverage like the more accurate Fire Punch for Steel types (i.e. Scizor).
Nidoking can now use its higher base stat to deal more damage with Sheer Force. Choose from Earth Power, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast, Sludge Wave or Stone Edge.
Skarmory ruining Machamp's day? Let out a No Guard Fire Blast and roast that metal bird away! No Guard Focus Blast can also be fun- with the same PP, you don't have to worry about Close Combat's Defense drops.
Mega-Mawile can now add Fire Blast to its arsenal for Steels who resist its STABs, or Ice Beam for defensive Ground types.
Bastiodon actually has a good range of special moves such as Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast and Flash Cannon (for Fairies), as well as great physical moves like Earthquake. Slap an Assault Vest and it can do some work with a 138 Special Defense stat (or a 168 Defense stat if another teammate is using Assault Vest). I find it's a great answer to Boomburst Swellow- it hasSoundproof to completely block Scrappy Boomburst. Otherwise, Sturdy is also useful for a 2 turn guarantee (barring Fake Out/hazards) since Rock/Steel is such an unfortunate typing.
Oranguru has some interesting coverage for a Psychic type. With a 110 Special Defense, you can use Assault Vest and have the choice of Psychic/Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball and now Earthquake/Rock Slide to the mix if you need it.
Ledian....is still bad but this will be as useful as it can be. It can now actually use Iron Fist! It can utilise its highest stat- a 110 Special Defense and combine it with Assault Vest. It has access to all the elemental punches for some good coverage (Thunderpunch/Icepunch is solid while Fire Punch is great for Steels). Mach Punch for some priority revenge killing while Drain Punch can surprisingly heal a lot against the right target. Knock Off is also great utility. It's best STAB move is Bug Buzz (although U-turn pivoting can be decent). Unfortunately, it doesn't learn any good Flying moves. But yeah..now with Item Clause, someone else probably needs Assault Vest anyway.
Drampa's known for its great movepool, but now it has the chance to use physical coverage as well! It has respectable 91 Special Defense so you can arm it with an Assault Vest to soften blows from Electro Ball (that poor 36 Speed..). It can now use moves such as Earthquake and Play Rough (very nice offensive types) to add to the nice coverage of Special moves such as Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast, Shadow Ball, Draco Meteor, Hurricane, Focus Blast and Surf.
Probably for a Trick Room team, but Rampardos has a great special movepool that it can possibly use. Fire Blast, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt can be used with Sheer Force variants, and it also has access to Surf. There's also Focus Blast if you're being ballsy (hey you're using Rampardos) but Hammer Arm is probably better for a Trick Room sweeper.
Alakazam can have a callback to the GSC days and use the Elemental punches if you want specific coverage like the more accurate Fire Punch for Steel types (i.e. Scizor).
Nidoking can now use its higher base stat to deal more damage with Sheer Force. Choose from Earth Power, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast, Sludge Wave or Stone Edge.
Skarmory ruining Machamp's day? Let out a No Guard Fire Blast and roast that metal bird away! No Guard Focus Blast can also be fun- with the same PP, you don't have to worry about Close Combat's Defense drops.
Mega-Mawile can now add Fire Blast to its arsenal for Steels who resist its STABs, or Ice Beam for defensive Ground types.
Alakzam is actually one of the more underrated mons in the meta rn. Sashzam is a great revengekiller on offense and it's also one of the few psychics that don't get fucked by TTar thanks to Drain Punch. However spikes are kind of a must, because you're using Zam's base 120 speed which isn't that much without an Life Orb, making Zam struggle against some threats. HP Fire is better than Fire Punch tho because of things like Iron Defense Scizor, the bad Iron Defense Metagross set and physically bulky steels like Skarm and Steelix. The biggest problem with Zam is that it's really weak against priority, which is really bad just because there are so many good priority users like Sylveon, Kecleon or Scizor in the meta rn.
Floatzel ran Aqua Jet though.
I think sucker punch wasn't uncommon on that zam, interestingly enough. edit; I'm hallucinating, it doesn't get sucker punch.
Cool it with the one-liners, TylerWithNumbers . I've already warned you and others about this once and shouldn't have needed to do it again.
just posting to announce that the Full Potential VR is finally up! As always, please leave nominations of what you will like to be changed and the council will review them before implementing. Also remember no shitposting ;)
Ordered Alphabetically
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the Full Potential metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Tapu Koko
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Full Potential metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.
A+
Accelgor
Mega Metagross
Scizor
A
Aerodactyl
Alakazam-Mega
Araquanid
Kecleon
Sableye-Mega
Steelix
Swellow
A-
Chansey
Diancie
Doublade
Dusclops
Furfrou
Magearna
Noivern
Porygon2
Regice
Toxapex
Umbreon
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Full Potential metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
B+
Crobat
Electrode
Goodra
Greninja
Hitmontop
Kartana
Kyurem-B
Jolteon
Onix
Nihilego
Registeel
Sylveon
Volcanion
B
Aggron
Blissey
Comfey
Forretress
Ninjask
Regirock
Suicune
Uxie
B-
Cobalion
Dragalge
Florges
Gigalith
Galvantula
Heatran
Lycanroc
Serperior
Talonflame
Tapu Fini
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the Full Potential metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.
C+
Altaria
Bastiodon
Bronzong
Claydol
C
Cloyster
Ninetales-Alola
Togekiss
Xurkitree
C-
Mudsdale
Rhydon
Turtonator
D(on't use) Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are nonviable in the Full Potential metagame and have no concrete advantage to make them worth using. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are severely outclassed because of it.
Malamar
Raichu
Rhyperior
You forgot Ferrothorn and Rotom-Heat
Ferrothorn can be B Rank or B- Rank
Rotom-Heat can be C Rank.
Ferrothorn can be B Rank or B- Rank
Rotom-Heat can be C Rank.
Rotom-Heat deserves better than C rank, it can check all the S and A+ mons as well as Steelix, Electrode and others with a spdef set.
Ferrothorn's already on at A.
I'd like to nominate Zygarde-10% for B. It has a base 115 Speed, which, coupled with a Choice scarf, makes this Pokémon be fairly powerful. It has a niche in and of itself with Thousand Arrows (also, why isn't regular Zygarde in here? Coil is good). It has powerful Dragon type STABs it doesn't get to run usually regularly in Draco Meteor/Core Enforcer, depending on if you want power or accuracy. Sludge Wave hits fairies, and Extreme Speed is just used as a cleanup move.
Mega Scizor isn't anywhere on the VR list, and that's the only one I've been swept by run into so far this month (at least, if I have run into regular Scizor, I've forgotten), so that needs to be addressed.
To add to what Faded said, Accelgor and Doublade should probably switch spots. Doublade is terrifically hard to get rid of once it has an Iron Defense up.
+2 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 240-283 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Standard 100/100 benchmark, and it has a decent chance to OHKO after Rocks and a layer of Spikes, or two Rocks switch-ins.
I've been normally dealing with it with Earth Power Excadrill (491-580 (153.9 - 181.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO), but +2 Shadow Sneak OHKOs. Tyranitar is something I've considered to deal with Shadow Sneak (though you take on average a third from +2 Sneak), but it really doesn't fear Pursuit, being 3HKO'd by switching out on Pursuit only 42% of the time. So you're forced into Dark Pulse or else risk the OHKO by Sacred Sword. This thing's annoying, man.
To add to what Faded said, Accelgor and Doublade should probably switch spots. Doublade is terrifically hard to get rid of once it has an Iron Defense up.
+2 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 240-283 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Standard 100/100 benchmark, and it has a decent chance to OHKO after Rocks and a layer of Spikes, or two Rocks switch-ins.
I've been normally dealing with it with Earth Power Excadrill (491-580 (153.9 - 181.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO), but +2 Shadow Sneak OHKOs. Tyranitar is something I've considered to deal with Shadow Sneak (though you take on average a third from +2 Sneak), but it really doesn't fear Pursuit, being 3HKO'd by switching out on Pursuit only 42% of the time. So you're forced into Dark Pulse or else risk the OHKO by Sacred Sword. This thing's annoying, man.
Can I just point out how threatening Whimsicott can be?
Let's look at this set:
Whimsicott @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Encore
- Nature Power
- Seed Bomb
(item could use a change. or not.)
Cotton Guard gives you a massive boost. After 2 of em, the remaining moves can kill so many threats in the metagame and you also have absurb defense. Nature Power under Prankster has priority, so faster pokes such as Tapu Koko who think they can deal with it are dead wrong. Seed Bomb kills Ttar, Regice, Mantine and other mons with monstrous Sp.Def. Setting up to 2 Cotton Guards isn't that hard with Encore and even if you only get 1 boost it can do some serious damage.
You can also switch Encore out for one of the many other support moves Whimsicott has, such as Leech Seed, Light Screen, Taunt, Tailwind or Switcheroo. Or even give it a third coverage option, such as Knock Off for MMeta.
On the other hand, it has crappy bulk without the boost and even afterwards it still can't take most of the metagame's special attacks. It also might struggle against MMeta as it resists Nature Power and so only takes 42+% from it. Psychic Terrain is also rather annoying, never seen any1 run it in my short experience though.
Personally I really think this should be on the viability ranking. B or B+ ought to do it for now.
Let's look at this set:
Whimsicott @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Encore
- Nature Power
- Seed Bomb
(item could use a change. or not.)
Cotton Guard gives you a massive boost. After 2 of em, the remaining moves can kill so many threats in the metagame and you also have absurb defense. Nature Power under Prankster has priority, so faster pokes such as Tapu Koko who think they can deal with it are dead wrong. Seed Bomb kills Ttar, Regice, Mantine and other mons with monstrous Sp.Def. Setting up to 2 Cotton Guards isn't that hard with Encore and even if you only get 1 boost it can do some serious damage.
You can also switch Encore out for one of the many other support moves Whimsicott has, such as Leech Seed, Light Screen, Taunt, Tailwind or Switcheroo. Or even give it a third coverage option, such as Knock Off for MMeta.
On the other hand, it has crappy bulk without the boost and even afterwards it still can't take most of the metagame's special attacks. It also might struggle against MMeta as it resists Nature Power and so only takes 42+% from it. Psychic Terrain is also rather annoying, never seen any1 run it in my short experience though.
Personally I really think this should be on the viability ranking. B or B+ ought to do it for now.
This could be paired with, say, Tapu Koko for some Thunderbolts with nature power. Or even Fini for STAB Moonblasts. I wasn't even aware nature power was considered a status move! Kinda similar to Copycat Liepard; seems really versatile. I've been using standard tailwind/encore prankster ever since chlorophyll was removed—this looks like a real strong contender.
Last edited:
Good job on the viability ranking. Personally I would rank Accelgor lower as I've never really had trouble with it thanks to maintaining hazard pressure and packing priority. Here are some things that have worked well for me that could be considered to be added to viability ranking, if you like.
Cryogonal: Although it's overshadowed by Regice it had some good qualities, mainly Ice Shard, which lets it deal with fast Flying types like Aerodactyl. It also has Knock Off, which is an excellent way to cripple Assault Vest and Eviolite mons. Freeze-Dry makes up for the lack of Thunderbolt. It's niche but I never really found it disappointing.
Ash-Greninja: Once it gets a kill, it's among the faster Scarfers in the meta, outspeeding Tapu Koko, which is an excellent quality. Its Water Shuriken is among the strongest priority attacks, and Greninja resists common priority attacks like Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch, letting it check Scizor, Metagross, Dusclops, etc. Although it's easy to switch into, its U-turn is strong enough to wear down AV users like Tyranitar or Araquanid. It doesn't function too different from OU but it doesn't need to.
Zygarde-10%: Seconding this thing for a nom, although it's definitely not an excellent mon.
Tapu Lele: I used fast AV Tapu Lele and it wasn't bad at all. Psyshock let it easily deal with Kecleon, Araquanid, Chansey, anything with good special bulk. I'm not even exaggerating, it does stupid damage to all the common AV users. Its anti-priority qualities are sorely needed in this metagame to check Scizor, Doublade, Dusclops, Kecleon, Sableye, and others. And it also gimps Tapu Koko simply by coming it, which is neato. It kinda hates Tyranitar unless you 2HKO it with Focus Blast on the switch in. Seriously though, try Tapu Lele, it's pretty neat.
I feel like there's quite a few mons that don't really gain much from this metagame that have been overlooked but are still really big threats. Hopefully we can try everything and figure it out eventually :)
Cryogonal: Although it's overshadowed by Regice it had some good qualities, mainly Ice Shard, which lets it deal with fast Flying types like Aerodactyl. It also has Knock Off, which is an excellent way to cripple Assault Vest and Eviolite mons. Freeze-Dry makes up for the lack of Thunderbolt. It's niche but I never really found it disappointing.
Ash-Greninja: Once it gets a kill, it's among the faster Scarfers in the meta, outspeeding Tapu Koko, which is an excellent quality. Its Water Shuriken is among the strongest priority attacks, and Greninja resists common priority attacks like Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch, letting it check Scizor, Metagross, Dusclops, etc. Although it's easy to switch into, its U-turn is strong enough to wear down AV users like Tyranitar or Araquanid. It doesn't function too different from OU but it doesn't need to.
Zygarde-10%: Seconding this thing for a nom, although it's definitely not an excellent mon.
Tapu Lele: I used fast AV Tapu Lele and it wasn't bad at all. Psyshock let it easily deal with Kecleon, Araquanid, Chansey, anything with good special bulk. I'm not even exaggerating, it does stupid damage to all the common AV users. Its anti-priority qualities are sorely needed in this metagame to check Scizor, Doublade, Dusclops, Kecleon, Sableye, and others. And it also gimps Tapu Koko simply by coming it, which is neato. It kinda hates Tyranitar unless you 2HKO it with Focus Blast on the switch in. Seriously though, try Tapu Lele, it's pretty neat.
I feel like there's quite a few mons that don't really gain much from this metagame that have been overlooked but are still really big threats. Hopefully we can try everything and figure it out eventually :)
Ok so there's a lot about this ranking that needs to be changed but first I want to nominate 3 mons that should be in the vr.
Zygarde-10% @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Draco Meteor
- Extreme Speed
- Earth Power
Nominating Zygarde-10% for A-. First off, I have no idea why or how Zygarde isn't ranked. Scarf Thousand Arrows is extremely hard to switch into and most teams don't have any switch-ins because of how rare grass-types are. Draco Meteor is a really good stab to have on any mon that doesn't use special attack, and gives Zygarde a decent 2nd option to sweep late game. Espeed is probably the best priority in the game, and while Zygarde isn't the best priority user in the tier, it still makes good use of it by revengekilling faster scarfers like Tapu Koko or Swellow. The last move on scarf Zygarde should always be Earth Power, because there isn't really anything else that you could fit on that spot. Earth Power is good for things like Iron Defense Doublade, Iron Defense Metagross and Steelix. Anything else doesn't really make sense, because you're already doing enough to special walls with Thousand Arrows, so you don't need Outrage and there's no point in running HP Fire when you already hit both Skarm and Scizor hard enough. And looking at A- Rank (although there's a lot wrong with it), Zygarde definitely deserves to be in the same rank as Dusclops, Toxapex and Doublade. Tbh Zygarde actually deserves to be in the same rank as swellow and steelix but I'll be satisfied with A- for now.
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rock Polish
- Psychic
- Drain Punch
- Overheat
Nominating Mew for B-. I already made a post about this set earlier, but Mew should definitely be B- rank. Rock Polish + Genesis Supernova is amazing, because of how common priority is and how it's the main way of dealing with faster threats on most teams. Drain Punch is an amazing coverage move to have rn, seeing as how common Tyranitar is. It's also good against Chansey because you'll be recovering so much HP from it, ensuring that Mew'll live a Frustration from it. Lastly, Overheat takes care of Skarm, Metagross, Scizor, Doublade, Steelix and basically almost every steel in the tier. The biggest downside to this set however, is that Mew has to use Psychic to get Genesis Supernova. Meaning that it'll struggle against most AV Mons like Sylveon or Goodra. It also struggles against psychics, but that problem can be solved by pairing it with AV TTar. Looking at B- rank, I would say that Mew deserves to be in the same rank as Cobalion, Serperior and Tapu Fini. There are some things in that rank that should be higher or lower, but I'll talk about that later.
Probopass @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpD / 104 Spe
Calm Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch / HP Fire
Nominating Probopass for C-. Now this one is more for the memes, but Probopass is a really fun mon to use. It mostly gets outclassed by Diancie and has a shitty typing, which is why it's so low, but it also has some things that make it an actual option for some teams. The main reason to use Probopass is Sand Force. The sand boost + the AV boost puts Probopass at 985 SpDef. Pair that with Sand Force which boosts its stabs and one of its coverage moves and you have a really strong wallbreaker that is basically ruined by it's typing and competition. Stone Edge and Iron Head both hit like a truck under sand while Earth Power deals with Metagross, Steelix and Doublade. The last slot can be either Volt Switch or HP Fire. Volt Switch is good for momentum, but most of the time hitting the switch-in hard with either Edge or Iron Head is the better option. HP Fire is for Scizor and Skarm and while those two may only be 2 mons, they're 2 important targets to hit. HP Fire won't ohko Skarm (I think), but it'll ohko Scizor if it tries to go for Iron Defense. However, like I said, the biggest problem with Probopass is it's typing. Being 4x weak to both fighting and ground sucks a lot and that's why most of the time you're better off running Diancie instead of Probopass. Sand Force boosted stabs still hit like a truck tho, which is why Probopass has a niche and deserves to be C-.
Now to the things that need to be changed about the vr, which is a lot so I'm not exactly sure if I'll do all of it in one post, but I'll try to focus on the most important ones.
Sylveon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pixilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpD / 120 Spe
Calm Nature
- Frustration
- Quick Attack
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Hyper Voice
Nominating Sylveon for A+. Ok I know this is a really huge jump, but there should be more mons in A+, because right now it looks like Metagross, Scizor and TTar are way above the rest which isn't exactly true. Don't get me wrong those 3 are definitely some of the best mons in the tier, but it might look a bit misleading to people who are new to the tier. Sylveon is really good rn, Pixilate with 130 SpDef is amazing. Fairy stab is really good in the meta rn, and thanks to that Sylveon can afford to run both Frustration and Hyper Voice, which makes it one of the best wallbreakers in the game. But wallbreaking isn't the only thing it does, Pixilate Quick Attack also lets Sylveon function as a really good revengekiller. Quick Attack does 43-51% to Koko, 60-71% to Swellow, has a 80% chance to ohko Accelgor after rocks, ohkos Zygarde-10% and ohkos Noivern after rocks. That's not all it does tho. 130 SpDef paired with AV and fairy-typing makes Sylveon a really good special tank that can take hits from Tapu Koko and other strong special attackers. Also to emphasize how strong Sylveon is, the only mons in the vr that Sylveon doesn't 2hko after rocks are Toxapex, Registeel, Heatran and Bronzong. There are also Celesteela and M-Venusaur which should be in the vr but aren't. All in all Sylveon is a really good wallbreaker, revengekiller and tank which is why I'm nominating it for A+.
Also Celesteela, M-Venusaur and Hippowdon should be ranked, but I don't know enough about those 3 to make a legit nomination.
edit: I just realized that Latias isn't ranked, I'll make a nomination for it later when I'm back on my PC
Zygarde-10% @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Draco Meteor
- Extreme Speed
- Earth Power
Nominating Zygarde-10% for A-. First off, I have no idea why or how Zygarde isn't ranked. Scarf Thousand Arrows is extremely hard to switch into and most teams don't have any switch-ins because of how rare grass-types are. Draco Meteor is a really good stab to have on any mon that doesn't use special attack, and gives Zygarde a decent 2nd option to sweep late game. Espeed is probably the best priority in the game, and while Zygarde isn't the best priority user in the tier, it still makes good use of it by revengekilling faster scarfers like Tapu Koko or Swellow. The last move on scarf Zygarde should always be Earth Power, because there isn't really anything else that you could fit on that spot. Earth Power is good for things like Iron Defense Doublade, Iron Defense Metagross and Steelix. Anything else doesn't really make sense, because you're already doing enough to special walls with Thousand Arrows, so you don't need Outrage and there's no point in running HP Fire when you already hit both Skarm and Scizor hard enough. And looking at A- Rank (although there's a lot wrong with it), Zygarde definitely deserves to be in the same rank as Dusclops, Toxapex and Doublade. Tbh Zygarde actually deserves to be in the same rank as swellow and steelix but I'll be satisfied with A- for now.
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rock Polish
- Psychic
- Drain Punch
- Overheat
Nominating Mew for B-. I already made a post about this set earlier, but Mew should definitely be B- rank. Rock Polish + Genesis Supernova is amazing, because of how common priority is and how it's the main way of dealing with faster threats on most teams. Drain Punch is an amazing coverage move to have rn, seeing as how common Tyranitar is. It's also good against Chansey because you'll be recovering so much HP from it, ensuring that Mew'll live a Frustration from it. Lastly, Overheat takes care of Skarm, Metagross, Scizor, Doublade, Steelix and basically almost every steel in the tier. The biggest downside to this set however, is that Mew has to use Psychic to get Genesis Supernova. Meaning that it'll struggle against most AV Mons like Sylveon or Goodra. It also struggles against psychics, but that problem can be solved by pairing it with AV TTar. Looking at B- rank, I would say that Mew deserves to be in the same rank as Cobalion, Serperior and Tapu Fini. There are some things in that rank that should be higher or lower, but I'll talk about that later.
Probopass @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpD / 104 Spe
Calm Nature
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch / HP Fire
Nominating Probopass for C-. Now this one is more for the memes, but Probopass is a really fun mon to use. It mostly gets outclassed by Diancie and has a shitty typing, which is why it's so low, but it also has some things that make it an actual option for some teams. The main reason to use Probopass is Sand Force. The sand boost + the AV boost puts Probopass at 985 SpDef. Pair that with Sand Force which boosts its stabs and one of its coverage moves and you have a really strong wallbreaker that is basically ruined by it's typing and competition. Stone Edge and Iron Head both hit like a truck under sand while Earth Power deals with Metagross, Steelix and Doublade. The last slot can be either Volt Switch or HP Fire. Volt Switch is good for momentum, but most of the time hitting the switch-in hard with either Edge or Iron Head is the better option. HP Fire is for Scizor and Skarm and while those two may only be 2 mons, they're 2 important targets to hit. HP Fire won't ohko Skarm (I think), but it'll ohko Scizor if it tries to go for Iron Defense. However, like I said, the biggest problem with Probopass is it's typing. Being 4x weak to both fighting and ground sucks a lot and that's why most of the time you're better off running Diancie instead of Probopass. Sand Force boosted stabs still hit like a truck tho, which is why Probopass has a niche and deserves to be C-.
Now to the things that need to be changed about the vr, which is a lot so I'm not exactly sure if I'll do all of it in one post, but I'll try to focus on the most important ones.
So first let's start off with the biggest problem, Accelgor. Accelgor is undoubtedly the most overrated mon in the tier. It was the main reason why unburden was banned, which is dumb because unburden Accelgor wasn't even broken. The main argument that people had about Accelgor being broken was that it's not weak against priority because it has Water Shuriken. So let's look at some of the priority users in A Rank. The only priority user that Accelgor ohkos with 5 hits at +4, is Doublade. Mega-Scizor is the one that's the 2nd most specially frail and Accelgor needs rocks, to kill it with 5 hits, at +4 speed. At +2 it only does 68.5% max, and while that might actually sound like a lot, the chance to get 5 hits is 16.7%, so have fun fishing for that. And if we go to the, in my opinion, 2 best priority users Kecleon and Sylveon, 5 hits of +4 shurikens does 46.4% to Kecleon, while Sylveon takes 36.4% at most. But that's the banned unburden Accelgor and Accelgor has no chance of getting to +4 without unburden. Right now Accelgor is comparable to Ninjask (which is B rank). If you take a look at both of them, the only thing that Accelgor has over Ninjask is Fblast, Knock Off and not being 4x weak to rocks. However, Ninjask has more speed, a ground immunity and Infiltrator, which isn't that useful, but at least more useful than Hydration and Sticky Hold. Accelgor might look really good at first, but after playing against it for a while, you realize that Accelgor isn't that great. So because of those reasons and the main one being that Accelgor isn't much better than Ninjask, I'm nominating Accelgor for B+ or B rank.
Sylveon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pixilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpD / 120 Spe
Calm Nature
- Frustration
- Quick Attack
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Hyper Voice
Nominating Sylveon for A+. Ok I know this is a really huge jump, but there should be more mons in A+, because right now it looks like Metagross, Scizor and TTar are way above the rest which isn't exactly true. Don't get me wrong those 3 are definitely some of the best mons in the tier, but it might look a bit misleading to people who are new to the tier. Sylveon is really good rn, Pixilate with 130 SpDef is amazing. Fairy stab is really good in the meta rn, and thanks to that Sylveon can afford to run both Frustration and Hyper Voice, which makes it one of the best wallbreakers in the game. But wallbreaking isn't the only thing it does, Pixilate Quick Attack also lets Sylveon function as a really good revengekiller. Quick Attack does 43-51% to Koko, 60-71% to Swellow, has a 80% chance to ohko Accelgor after rocks, ohkos Zygarde-10% and ohkos Noivern after rocks. That's not all it does tho. 130 SpDef paired with AV and fairy-typing makes Sylveon a really good special tank that can take hits from Tapu Koko and other strong special attackers. Also to emphasize how strong Sylveon is, the only mons in the vr that Sylveon doesn't 2hko after rocks are Toxapex, Registeel, Heatran and Bronzong. There are also Celesteela and M-Venusaur which should be in the vr but aren't. All in all Sylveon is a really good wallbreaker, revengekiller and tank which is why I'm nominating it for A+.
So I already talked to nv about this and the reason why Aerodactyl is A rank is because it's one of the best suicide leads in the tier (he actually said it's the best lead in the tier but I think Skarm gives it competition for that spot), however that just isn't enough to make Aerodactyl A rank. I agree that it's one of the best leads and that most teams don't have a way to get rid of rocks, but it really shouldn't be A rank when you look at the other mons in that tier. There's not really much to explain about that but Aerodactyl should be B+ rank. I'd still be fine with A- tho.
Ok so remember how I said that Sylveon is a really good wallbreaker, revengekiller and special tank? Well Araquanid is just one of those, and it's not even that good at it. AV + Water Bubble makes Araquanid a great wallbreaker, however like I said in my suspect vote, Araquanid has problems finding a chance to attack because of how slow and frail it is on the physical side. While Araquanid has great special bulk coupled with AV, it struggles against many special attackers, because most mons in this tier are mixed, meaning that there's a lot that Araquanid can't safely switch in on. Araquanid is a strong Wallbreaker, but it lacks speed/priority and struggles against most things due to it's bad physical defense, which is why Araquanid should be either B+ or A-.
Electrode should be lower than Jolteon. Jolteon has Quick Feet, 140 bp Facade and also Agility. There isn't really a reason to run Electrode instead of Jolteon or Tapu Koko, not to mention that it also takes up your Choice Scarf. It should be either B- or B.
Blissey should be C rank. Honestly is there any reason to use Blissey instead of Chansey?Blissey can't really use AV because it takes its recovery away and also wastes an av slot because you could just run chansey instead. The only reason I can see to run Blissey is to pair it with Dusclops, but even then I think that Kecleon is better in that case. Blissey itself isn't really a bad mon, it's just heavily outclassed which prevents it from being on any legit team.
Tbh, I have no idea why this is even ranked. I fail to find anything that is worth trapping to waste a moveslot. Diglett has to run Scarf to kill anything, so it can't switch into anything which means that you either have to double switch or sac a mon to get diglett in, which is dumb when you realize that you just sacrificed a decent mon for diglett. I mean it kills TTar which is cool, but there isn't anything else that diglett traps which is significant enough. There are better ways to deal with TTar anyways that don't waste a team- and itemslot.
Lycanroc still has base 112 speed and accelrock, but I really don't think that it's on the same level as Serperior or Talonflame, which is why it should be C+ Rank. It lacks coverage and struggles against anything that resists rock or has good defense. Rock Polish Accelrock is nice against Sylveon and Kecleon, but it still gets revenged by Metagross and Scizor.
Also Celesteela, M-Venusaur and Hippowdon should be ranked, but I don't know enough about those 3 to make a legit nomination.
edit: I just realized that Latias isn't ranked, I'll make a nomination for it later when I'm back on my PC
Last edited: