full stall in OU? it actually works

[nmitchell890]

Hi Smogon. I really hope that I am convincing a few people to try stall in today's metagame, it really isn't as hopeless as it is made out to be. As it stands, my team is sitting on a 17-4 win-loss ratio and I'm pretty happy with it. I'm similar to bugmaniacbob in that I can talk for hours, but I won't bore you all with a long intro, lets get into the team itself.

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 248 Def / 16 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Roost
I will start with Gliscor, though I often don't lead with it. Gliscor is very useful as a general physical sponge with its defences and Poison Heal restoring a lot of HP. This is its main job, checking powerful physical sweepers like Terrakion, Garchomp, Dragonite and Landorus-T. As can be seen, Ice Fang is indispensable to its role and so Stealth Rock was placed elsewhere on the team. Taunt is also indispensable as it prevents pokemon like Forretress setting up on Gliscor, it also stops pokemon like Scizor boosting their stats to the point they can power through Gliscor. Earthquake and Roost should be obvious but for those readers that need the explanation; Earthquake is the main STAB attack on Gliscor while Roost keeps Gliscor healthy alongside Poison Heal. The EV spread maximises physical defence while hitting a Poison Heal number, it also outspeeds standard Swords Dance Scizor to Taunt before it can get a boost.

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird
- Roost
Skarmory is another physically defensive pokemon, it is also my only steel. This makes it extremely important against dragons, it serves as my most reliable check to the beasts. I prefer to go to Gliscor on the big hits though as Skarmory has an even more important job; it lays down Spikes for my team. The entry hazard is my teams main way of dealing damage, conserving HP so that Skarmory can successfully set these up is extremely important. As such, I prefer Skarmory to switch into things like Mamoswine, Landorus-T and Donphan, pokemon whose main STAB attacks do literally zero damage to Skarmory. Whirlwind allows Skarmory itself to take advantage of Spikes, it also serves as an answer to pokemon that boost their stats like Gyarados or Toxicroak. Skarmory is a secondary check to Breloom as it fears nothing except Spore while Brave Bird is an OHKO, I prefer Celebi though as it has Natural Cure to deal with Spore.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 192 SDef / 64 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Recover
- Giga Drain
- Baton Pass
There is no stall team nowadays lacking a Celebi, it just deals with so many common threats in OU. Breloom, Keldeo, Landorus, all of them fall to Celebi. I won't go to Celebi against Landorus though until I'm 100% sure it lacks U-Turn. Recover keeps Celebi healthy and is the crux of the set. Baton Pass requires some explaining. All three of Breloom, Keldeo and Landorus usually anticipate Breloom being used as an answer to them, so they pack teammates that can trap and KO Celebi. Tyranitar is the most common culprit, Scizor is also seen using Pursuit. Gothitelle is extremely rare, but is too can trap and KO Celebi for the three. With the above EV spread, Celebi can outspeed the fastest unboosted threat to it, Choice Specs Gothitelle, and use Baton Pass to escape their clutches. Psychic and Giga Drain are STAB moves for Celebi to use. Celebi doesn't just counter those three, on the contrary it takes on almost every water type in OU (it doesn't like Bounce Gyarados) and electric types like Jolteon, Thundurus-T and Rotom-W. Celebi is practically a staple on stall.

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Taunt
- Recover
- Shadow Ball
- Scald
Jellicent is my choice of bulky water, though I am debating Tentacruel for Rapid Spin. I haven't been disappointed with Jellicent however, it has done very well for me so far. The EV spread is pretty standard, maximise the weaker defensive stat and minimise Spikes damage while outspeeding standard Choice Band Scizor. I still like to outspeed Scizor even without Will-o-Wisp because Scald does decent damage and can still burn. Scald is the main STAB move, hitting pokemon like Heatran and Terrakion decently hard and having a chance to inflict a burn makes up for the loss of Will-o-Wisp. Shadow Ball allows Jellicent to be a backup check to psychic types should Mandibuzz be unavailable for whatever reason. Taunt is godly, it stops pokemon like Ferrothorn from setting up on Jellicent for free while Scald can cripple it with a burn. Jellicent is the best spinblocker in OU, mine packs a Calm nature to help it slightly against Starmie, one common user of Rapid Spin. Forretress is wank against Jellicent, but Tentacruel does break through with Toxic and Protect in rain. Finally, Jellicent is my main Keldeo counter should the opponent lack a Pursuit user.

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Softboiled
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
Chansey has proved a much more effective choice than Blissey. She is less experienced, but she takes a much harder pounding. Ahem sorry, Chansey has similar bulk to 4HP 252SpD+ Blissey on the special side, while also packing greater physical bulk than 252HP 252Def+ Swampert. This lets her take much harder hits than Blissey ever could on the physical side, cushioning Psyshock massively. Unfortunately, Secret Sword is still an issue for Chansey. The increase in bulk grants Chansey much greater longevity than Blissey, and much more room for a misprediction should she accidentally switch into a physical attack. With the loss of a decently powerful Flamethrower in sun, Chansey had to resort to Thunder Wave to cripple the opponents that Blissey handled so well, namely Venusaur and Volcarona. On the plus side, it still counters the pair extremely well, and also takes on pokemon like Heatran that previously walled Blissey better than Blissey did. There are other downsides, like the loss of Leftovers to nullify sandstorm damage and cushion weaker hits, but Chansey has proved much more effective overall.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
The advantages that Jirachi packs over Mandibuzz are relatively few in number, but are enough to make it the better choice for this team, despite how much I enjoyed using an RU pokemon without an OU analysis in OU. Jirachi packs an awesome defensive typing that lets it take on things like Kyurem-B and Latios that were otherwise problematic, and also lacks typing that adds to the electric and weaknesses my team suffered from before. The psychic and ghost types that Mandibuzz countered are checked by Jirachi, Reuniclus can only 3HKO Jirachi with a +1 Focus Blast. I do sometimes miss Taunt and Whirlwind, but I also rely on Jirachi to take on threats that the rest of the team struggle with, making it mandatory. Besides, Iron Head and Body Slam are hilarious in a metagame ruled by speed and power. The team is more effective with Jirachi than Mandibuzz, so Jirachi is the preferred choice.

Previous team members

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Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock
Arguably the most replaceable member of the team, Blissey has (surprisingly, because its phat) pulled its weight so far. Instead of being the be-all end-all special wall it used to be, I prefer adapting Blissey to 100% counter specific threats to the team, while still packing the bulk to switch into random special attacks (except Psyshock or Secret Sword) and supporting the team. Seen as Gliscor needs Ice Fang to take on dragons better and Celebi needs Baton Pass to escape the clutches of the ever-present Tyranitar, Blissey has been stuck with the responsibility of setting up Stealth Rock. It hasn't disappointed in this role, it gets many opportunities to do so. The threats that I have adapted Blissey to take on are Venusaur and Volcarona, at the expense of taking on Heatran. Toxic completely cripples any Volcarona lacking Rest, making Blissey a good answer to Volcarona unless it gets to +2 in sun. Venusaur however needs to get to +6 just to 2HKO Blissey while Flamethrower is a 2HKO in return. Blissey is also very capable of taking rain boosted water attacks as long as they are special, and can switch into attacks like Draco Meteor with little to fear. While not the special wall it used to be, Blissey is still very viable against most of the special threats of OU.

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Foul Play
- Whirlwind
- Roost
So I was looking for a final pokemon, preferably one that fills up most of the defensive gaps in this team. I heard people had enjoyed success with Mandibuzz as a special wall against certain threats in OU, so I punched in some calcs and was ever so surprised. Mandibuzz is only 2HKOed by Sheer Force Landorus 30.5% of the time after Stealth Rock, not factoring in the shaky accuracy of Focus Blast. I knew then that I had found my final pokemon. Mandibuzz fills the gap against certain special attackers that otherwise troubled me like Reuniclus, Alakazam and Gengar, not to mention both Magic Bounce pokemon. It packs both Taunt and Whirlwind to ensure that nothing is setting up anything on Mandibuzz unless it packs a faster Taunt. Specifically, Taunt screws over entry hazard users like Ferrothorn and Forretress, along with pokemon that don't mind entry hazards too much like Reuniclus. Whirlwind forces Landorus out and racks up entry hazard damage. Foul Play hits most pokemon it counters super effectively, scoring 2HKOes on them all except Reuniclus.

Unfortunately, no team lacks weaknesses. This team has trouble with DragMag teams due to my only steel being Skarmory, Kyurem-B pretty much 6-0's this team once it gets a Substitute up toothis has been solved by adding Jirachi. Gothitelle is a female sex offender, it rapes every member of this team except Celebi, who is fast enough to Baton Pass its way out of Signal Beam. Victini OHKOes every member of this team except Jellicent in sun with Choice Band V-Create, Jellicent is crucified by Bolt Strike. Less severe weaknesses include opposing entry hazards as I lack Rapid Spin, mixed Tyranitar deals big damage to my team too as I won't know it is mixed until it is too late. Hopefully, you lovely people will be able to fix these problems, and possibly any that I haven't yet spotted. Thanks for reading my RMT, I hope I wasn't too boring.

 

[superstar]

Stall is pretty difficult to use, so props on finding a successful team! This team is pretty cool, and does a good job of checking most major threats. However, I think the lack of a revenge killer is hurting you. You also lack a good answer to LO Latios, since it can 2HKO Blissey with Psyshock. To patch this up, I'd recommend replacing Mandibuzz with Scarf Jirachi. This gives you a revenge killer, a good check to Latios, and still lets you take on Reuniclus, Alakazam, and Gengar! The standard set with Iron Head, U-Turn, Ice Punch, and either Fire Punch, Thunderpunch (for Gyarados), or Trick should work nicely.

Good luck!

 

[nmitchell890]

It does kinda suck when my fastest pokemon is outsped by Jolly Breloom. I will give Jirachi a try, it seems to patch up most of the teams weaknesses (except Victini) and provides speed that my team previously lacked. I think ThunderPunch fits best as Celebi fears Bounce from Gyarados while Skarmory fears a flinch from Waterfall. Tyvm :)

 

[Episode36]

The biggest issue I see with this team overall is the weakness to physical attackers that are able to get a Swords Dance boost or Dragon Dance boost or Bulk Up boost. Most users of these will have an Ice move and a Fire or Fighting move, which really really hurts most of your team.

The only move I see to make is to change one of your Pokemon to one that resists these most common attacking types, preferably one with a physically defensive mindset.

Another area you need help with is getting a rapid spinner. Honestly, every team should have one, but stall teams have the highest need for them.

Personally, I would replace Mandibuzz with a 252 HP 252 Def 4 SpA Reuniclus. This will help you sponge those Ice and Fire (and Electric) physical moves your team is so troubled by, while simultaneously setting up with Calm Mind. Use Recover and Leftovers to keep healthy, and Psyshock and Focus Blast/Shadow Ball for your attacking moves. This also helps you beat opposing stall, particularly opposing stall without taunt users or with limited taunt users.

I would also replace Blissey with Heatran, who fulfills the same role (specially defensive tank + Stealth Rock setter), while providing a valuable Fire Water Grass core. A core of Heatran, Jellicent, and Celebi is notoriously hard to deal with.

As for a spinner, that's the hardest part to decide. I believe 252 HP 252 Def Donphan would do very well in place of Gliscor. He gives you the same Electric immunity and physically defensive presence, while having no 4x weakness. He revenge kills dragons with Ice Shard, and of course Rapid Spins hazards.

Recap-
Replace Gliscor with physically defensive Donphan, mostly for Rapid Spin.

Replace Blissey with specially defensive Heatran.

*Iffy on this one, have to test* Replace Mandibuzz with physically defensive calm mind boosting Reuniclus with Magic Guard, to help break stall and give a fallback resistance to Toxic Spikes/hazards, while also giving you a set up bulky sweeper.

 

[nmitchell890]

Having tested Jirachi in place of Mandibuzz, I have found that a specially defensive set has been more effective as it can switch into pokemon like Kyurem-B more than once and do its job. I simply haven't missed the speed. Also, I have found that Thunder Wave Chansey has worked better in place of Blissey. The replacements have been edited in.

 

[TEzeon]

Ha, yeah, stall is definitely being underdogged in this format, despite the fact that it can still do rather well. You seem to have a good foundation set in place here, but because this is stall, you're going to need that little extra "push" to give you the edge in certain match ups.

For starters, your lack of Toxic Spikes, Toxic in general, and any bulky CMers like Jirachi or Latias as a late game win condition will really hurt your chances of taking games. This team has no problem throwing down answers to potential threats that your opponent may have, but be careful! You are deceptively incapable of playing a long, drawn out game, especially in the mirror match where your opponent may be a little more well prepared for it than you are.

I may sound a bit drone here, but I think you may want to consider these changes. As you have already considered it anyway, try Tentacruel out in place of Jellicent. They both accomplish more or less the same goals, with the difference that Tentacruel is not as easily trapped and bullied by Tyranitar and that he can lay down Toxic Spikes. Tentacruel also has Rapid Spin at his disposal, and, in the longer drawn out game, Tentacruel can absorb Toxic Spikes without needing the turn to Rapid Spin. This is a huge asset for Pokemon like Celebi and Chansey!

Moving on to the minor changes, I have a few moveset suggestions here. You may want to try out Sub/Toxic Gliscor. It is a very tough Pokemon to deal with, and can easily stall out most of the metagame with relative ease assuming he manages to get a Substitute in.

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect

This set was taken straight from Gliscor's Strategydex. Having played against this particular Gliscor set in the past, I can attest to its formidability. Bronzong, Skarmory and enemy Gliscors are just about the only things safe from this set if you manage to get in a Substitute. Do not fret, though! Those three Pokemon are easily dealt with by the rest of your team!

My next moveset suggestion is for Chansey. I recommend changing the moves to Wish, Protect, Toxic and Seismic Toss. The EV's you currently have seem fair, though I guess an argument could be made for making it Calm instead of Bold. Either way, it should work more or less the same. With the advent of Wish, along with Chansey's naturally titanic HP stat, you can effectively heal your entire team on the spot! Finally, I would try Perish Song on Celebi, possibly in place of Giga Drain. This will give you an ace in the hole in the event that your opponent brings out a CM Jirachi or Latias late game and you are pressed on immediate answers for it. Perish Song Celebi is also capable of defeating Reuniclus, who is a major issue for stall in general. Anyway, I hope my advice helped you out!