Full Stall - No Shame - Peaked ~#25

[KM]

Heya everyone :) It's Kitten Milk, or +Pleasure Kitten on PS. Over the last week or two, I've been working on creating an effective full stall team. I've gone through tons of iterations of the team, and I'm still not sure which one is the most effective, so I decided to bring it to all of you guys. You might know me from my uncompleted Wild Card Monotype RMT series, or from my old Hail Stall Team, or this might be the first time you've gazed upon my countenance, but I've been around for a while so I know how good of a resource an RMT can be in improving one's team (no pressure). Without further ado...
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Full Stall - No Shame​

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Snowman with Limbs (Mega-Aggron)
Item: Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy--->Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature

• Heavy Slam
• Roar
• Earthquake
• Stealth Rock

Aggron serves as one half of the physical bulk on this stall team. Besides being able to take a myriad of hits from both ends of the spectrum, he also dishes out a decent amount of damage. Roar provides me with a useful tool to both wrack up hazard damage, phaze out spinners, and stop set-up sweepers. I chose to run specially defensive EVs but a defensive boosting nature because I'm pretty sure it's the most mathematically efficient way to go, given as EVs provide flat boosts, and natures provide a percentage boost (please don't shoot me if i'm wrong).

Possible Changes: In different iterations of the team, I've exchanged Aggron for Forretress, and I'm sort of torn between the two. On one hand, Forretress has more options with Rapid Spin, other hazards, and a slow Volt Switch. On the other hand, I feel as though it exacerbates some of my weaknesses and leaves me open to a losing a lot of momentum/free turns. While clearing hazards is certainly nice, I don't really know how I can incorporate it in.

Synergy:
Aggron + Florges: The infamous defensive core of Gen 6 UU. Florges takes the special and fighting hits for Aggron, and Aggron intercepts all the nasty steel and poison type moves. Florges heals up Aggron and removed any status effects.
Aggron + Qwilfish: Aggron and Qwilfish, my two defensive walls, work awesomely together as well. Any of the physical moves that Aggron might possibly fear (V-Creates, Flare Blitzes, HJKs) are promptly soaked up by the monstrosity that is Qwilfish.

Shrivel (Florges)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: so useless i cba writing it (fine, Flower Veil)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature

• Moonblast
• Wish
• Protect
• Aromatherapy

Florges serves as the primary special wall and cleric for the team. Moonblast dishes out solid damage uninvested, and Florges' great natural special bulk and wonderful defensive typing make her a long-lasting, important member of the team. I chose to invest fully into SpD because I struggle more with special threats - especially threats like Mega-Blastoise. The other true special wall on the team (Snorlax) is the wincon, so Florges needs to be as specially defensive as possible.

Possible Changes: I've tried out Umbreon in lieu of Florges in many iterations of the team, usually combined with the Forretress instead of Mega-Aggron. While I think both have their pluses and minuses, I didn't like the extra pressure that was placed on Qwilfish to deal with fighting types with Umbreon, and the damage from Foul Play felt too inconsistent - it was a lot harder to prevent things from setting up on me. I feel like I could also do well with Toxic somewhere on this set to deal with Rotom-H and stalbreaker Mew a bit better, but I really don't know where I'd fit it.

Synergy:
Aggron + Florges: See Mega-Aggron
Florges + Snorlax: Florges and Snorlax are a great pair as well. They check each others weaknesses fairly well in terms of pokes - Florges can deal with Mega-Blastoise but not Nidoking/Queen, Snorlax the opposite. Florges' cleric abilities allow Snorlax to Rest more safely as well as to keep him at a safe health to sweep, and her resistance to and effectiveness towards fighting mons helps wear down the things that could potentially break through Snorlax.
Florges + Trevenant: FINE I GUESS FLOWER VEIL IS TECHNICALLY USEFUL FOR MAKING SURE THAT NO ONE DROPS TREVENANT'S STATS. HNNG.

Pillow for Masochists (Qwilfish)
Item: Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature

• 
  
  
  • Waterfall
  • Toxic Spikes
  • Thunder Wave
  • Pain Split

Anyone who knows me even moderately well knows that it's physically impossible for me to make a post without mentioning Qwilfish in it somewhere. I'm fucking crazy about this fish, and I still think he's seriously underrated. His tanking ability and his incredible typing are unparalleled (shut up Tentacruel), and the utility he provides to teams of all kinds is unprecedented. I chose to run Toxic Spikes over Spikes because of the increased ability to wear down opposing Stall teams and rapid spinners (spinblockers aren't consistent or safe this gen, so getting damage off the things that can remove hazards is key imo). Thunder Wave allows Qwilfish to seriously cripple threats on both sides of the spectrum, making him hard to switch into. Pain Split keeps his health up and further demoralizes the enemy, and Waterfall is a standard stab for dishing out fair amounts of damage. It also meshes quite well with Thunder Wave, making Qwilfish a sort of pseudo-Jirachi (It's still a 56% chance to break free, but it's not bad).

Possible Changes: Spikes instead of Toxic Spikes is an option, but I really don't think I could find the turns to set up a significant amount of layers in most games. Also, the prevalence of defog and scary rapid spinners makes Toxic Spikes a lot more appealing. I could run Destiny Bond over Pain Split, but I don't really outspeed all too much anyway - and if I did, it would usually fall into two cases; either they're at high enough HP that I can pain split and easily tank their next hit, or they're at low enough HP/not enough of a threat so that it would be better for me to just finish them off with Waterfall, cripple them with TWave, or set up another layer of Toxic Spikes.

Synergy:
Aggron + Qwilfish: See Mega-Aggron
Qwilfish + Trevenant: I love this core to death. They compliment each other quite well in terms of type - Trevenant can easily switch in on any of the ground type attacks that could possibly scare Qwilfish, and he takes most Psychic and Electric type attacks pretty handily too. Offensively, Toxic Spikes works so well with Trevenant, it's ridiculous. When Toxic Spikes are combined with the constant damage from Leech Seed and Curse, nothing can stay in for more than a turn, allowing for plenty of opportunities to set up free subs and continuing to annoy the fuck out of people. Thunder Wave on Qwilfish is also a nice tool, as it allows Trevenant to spam Sub and fish for a full Para if things get really rough.
Qwilfish + Kyurem: Qwilfish and Kyurem have quite good type synergy. The physical fighting, steel, and fire type moves that really rustle Kyurem's jimmies are straight denied by Qwilfish. Also, Kyurem likes the Toxic Spikes and TWave support to help it get going more easily and pressure stall some bitches out.

Penguin in Tree Suit (Trevenant)
Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harharharvest
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature

• 
  
  
  • Leech Seed
  • !@#$!@#$ (Curse)
  • Horn Leech
  • Substitute

Whenever I use this set against anyone, they're always like "Wow, what an interesting and eye-opening set! I love people who use unique things instead of the same old annoying gimmicky shit!"...ok, maybe not. Annoying as it may be, Trevenant is an extremely effective addition to full stall teams, with his ability to wear down an entire team given only one turn of momentum. Curse allows me to stop set-up sweepers in their tracks, as Curse goes through substitutes. Similarly, I invested 8 Speed EVs to beat opposing Trevenants in a mirror match 100% of the time. Leech Seed, Horn Leech, and Sitrus Berry/Harvest allow me to keep my health up at all time, while Substitute and Curse allow me to keep it down at all time (? it works somehow trust me).

Possible Changes: WoW > Curse is an option, but it makes me more susceptible to sweepers with Sub (SubCM Cress particularly), and it makes me more susceptible against Pokes with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy as well. It also doesn't mesh well with Toxic Spikes. In terms of EVs, I've considered taking points out of HP and putting them into Attack or Defense, given as three of Trevenant's four moves benefit from him having more effective, but lower health, but I'm not convinced, especially as it makes me less of an effective emergency check v Blastoise.

Synergy:
Qwilfish + Trevenant: See Qwilfish
Florges + Trevenant: See Florges
Snorlax + Trevenant: Snorlax and Trevenant have freaking awesome synergy. With the exception of the rare Knock Off (pls know how to comprehend sarcasm people), any move that scares Trevenant is easily absorbed by Snorlax. Fire and Ice moves are laughed off due to Thick Fat, and Ghost moves are really laughed off due to immunity. Similarly, Snorlax's fear of scary fighting things is mollified by Trev's handy immunity. Snorlax also loves getting Leech Seed health to help him set up more happily. They also both like Cursing at things.

Too Fat to Function (Snorlax)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature

• 
  
  
  • Return
  • !@#$!@#$ (Curse)
  • Rest
  • Sleep Talk

Ahhh, classic mono-attacking RestTalk Curselax. I love this set - it provides a much-needed win condition for stall teams, as well as giving me another special wall with incredible longevity to take some of the burden off of Florges. Although the set is to an extent walled by Ghosts, the presence of Toxic Spikes and the relative un-presence of ghost types in general makes this not too big of a deal. Trick Chandelure is a bitch, though. This Snorlax set also serves as a great counter to opposing Stall Team Win conditions - most notably CM Slowbro and CM Suicune. Both of these threats have to get extremely lucky and have turns of momentum beforehand in order to beat Snorlax: it would basically require Scald to burn 100% of the time and all Sleep Talks to result in Rests, if even that. Fortunately, many people are unaware of this fact, which makes the wins roll on in quite easily :).
Possible Changes: I could run a simple Curselax with more coverage, or even just a Curselax with Rest and without Sleep Talk, just to keep some offensive pressure against ghosts, but I really don't see it as necessary. I'd say this is the most permanent member of the team.
Synergy:
Snorlax + Trevenant: See Trevenant
Florges + Snorlax: See Florges

TyrannoHands (Kyurem)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 84 HP/ 252 SpD / 172 Spe
Hasty Nature

• 
  
  
  • Ice Beam
  • Substitute
  • Roost
  • Dragon Tail

SubRoost Kyurem is honestly a boss. Ice Beam and Dragon Tail coming off of uninvested duo base 130 Atk and SpA wreck faces, and Pressure allows Kyurem to stall out even the most determined of stallbreakers at the end of matches. The EVs are a little tweak on those given to me by Voltage (ty bb), and they exist to ensure that you outspeed the Nidos, which is definitely important to me. Sub and Roost allow me to stay healthy and block status from crippling me, as well as allow pressure stalling. This makes Kyurem an effective panic counter against stuff like Banded Hera by stalling it out of CCs simply by Subbing. Dragon Tail also allows it become a secondary phazer, along with Aggron.
Possible Changes: Kyurem is the member of my team that I'm least sure about. On one hand, I really like the set and the poke, but I'm not sure if it really fits into my team. A lot of the time, it feels like I'm playing a 5+1 team, where 5 of the pokes work great together, and then the sixth one is just there. I've tried a lot in its place - SpD Rotom Heat, Ampharos-Mega (with Forry instead of Aggron), and Slowbro, but I really feel like they weren't getting the job done. If anyone has some suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.

In terms of Kyu itself, I would consider perhaps changing the nature to -Atk rather than -Def, but that's up in the air.

Synergy:
Kyurem + Qwilfish: See Qwilfish

Big Bad Threats
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Mega Blastoise: Mega-Blastoise is probably one of the biggest threats to this team. I just don't really have anything to hit him too hard with, and I'm forced to either switch into Florges and have my hazards spinned away or risk Trevenant and get Dark Pulsed (If he does go for Rapid Spin on the switch to Trevenant, Trev can 1v1 him with Horn Leech).
Nidoqueen/Nidoking: Oh my god. I hate these fuckers so much it's not even funny. Besides being able to eliminate my toxic spikes merely by existing, the only things that can really deal with them on my team are Kyurem (which doesn't exactly love switching in) and Snorlax (which requires me to weaken my wincon quite early in the game :3). I lack a solid way to deal super effective damage to them, and the amount of utility and damage they can provide against my team is pretty ridic.
Mew: Stallbreaker Mew is really quite a big problem. I have no way of blocking Defog from ruining my hazards, and I don't have all too much that can deal with it if it's running Soft-Boiled and Heal Bell. Combined with the fact that it can set up its own Rocks and potentially run an offensive set, the only real safe check I have is Trevenant.
Rotom-Heat: Fuck Specially Defensive Rotom-Heat and all it stands for. I have such a hard time wearing this fucker down - the only real damage I have on the team is in the form of Snorlax and Kyurem, and Kyurem doesn't appreciate taking WoW or Overheat, where Snorlax can't do much after it's burned.
Honchkrow: The amount of pure damage that Honchkrow can dish out is pretty insane, and it makes it quite scary. Aggron can deal with it, but it can't switch in multiple times, especially if it carries Heat Wave or Superpower. Not as big of a deal as the other threats, but definitely something to watch out for.

Conclusion
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Thank you to everyone who read my first Gen 6 UU RMT. It doesn't have all the bells in whistles that most my RMTs usually do, but it's not something I really have time to do and I wanted this RMT to be more about getting help on this team, and not showing off all the shiny shit I can do. I really would appreciate some feedback, as I think this team has the potential to be quite good, but something is lacking. Please, don't hesitate to offer suggestions even if they completely change the team - I'm not particularly attached to any of it and I'm certainly aware that there's room for improvement.

<3 - Kitten Milk/ +Pleasure Kitten

Edit: Whoops, forgot the importable. If anyone wants to try it out, here ya go.

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Snowman with Limbs (Aggron) @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Pillow for Masochists (Qwilfish) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Toxic Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Pain Split

Shrivel (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect

TyrannoHands (Kyurem) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SDef / 84 HP / 172 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail

Penguin in Tree Suit (Trevenant) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Spd
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Horn Leech
- Curse

Too Fat to Function (Snorlax) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
- Return

 

[psVoltage]

I really love this team, its been pretty fun laddering with it and seeing you play (even if I messed up more then one match)

I'll tell you some things I've been saying since the start and/ or have found in testing.
1) The team would like spikes along with toxic spikes since it would help kyurem weaken the enemy faster for snorlax, and still hit poison types. Win Win (I would suggest forry/ chesnaught on the team but you hate them :c)
2) On Quilfish, destiny bond can be really good for getting the jump on a threat to the team (I decided to test it over t-wave and it actually worked)
3) Aggron can run rest over eq to heal back up when he's needed to be healthy and wont have to rely on Florges wish passing. She can just aromatherapy it later on.

Thats all I got for now, Congratz on the peak btw and have fun with the team.

 

[GlassGlaceon]

BlameTruth shud be on the threatlist :@

 

[KM]

BlameTruth shud be on the threatlist :@

pls

 

[Blast]

An option to help with Mega Blastoise, the Nidos and Rotom-H is to replace Trevenant with specially defensive Gastrodon. Max SpDef over max Def allows you to avoid the 2HKO from Nidoking's Earth Power and threaten back with Scald or Earth Power, and can completely wall Blastoise + Rotom-H as well (barring the occasional HP Grass I guess). Trevenant seems to be the most expendable Pokemon on your team as it doesn't really wall anything your team can't already manage. To help against Mew you should probably consider Toxic over Dragon Tail on Kyurem, as with your heavy Speed investment you can outspeed and poison it before it can Taunt you, and heal off Synchronize later with Florges.

Also a lot of your movesets could use some tweaking. Florges would benefit much more from being physically defensive, allowing it to serve as an alternative check to Mienshao, Heracross, Weavile, etc and making better use out of its more physically-inclined defensive typing. Next, it makes no sense to use Thunder Wave on Qwilifish because a) this is a stall team and b) it synergizes awkwardly with Toxic Spikes, so I would suggest replacing it with either Spikes or Taunt, the former of which can stack up extra entry hazards and the latter can deter setup. Finally, Snorlax would benefit from using a mixed defensive EV spread of 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SDef Careful, as full investment in special bulk is unnecessary due to Snorlax's already insane HP + SpD. I also think Pursuit would also see some merit over Sleep Talk (optional though) as you're somewhat weak to CB Victini, doing 55% minimum at -1 from V-create to help prevent it from continuously switching in.

Suggested changes

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Recover

Kyurem: Dragon Tail --> Toxic

Florges: change to a physically defensive EV spread

Qwilfish: Thunder Wave --> either Spikes or Taunt

Snorlax: EV spread --> 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SDef with a Careful nature, Sleep Talk --> Pursuit

 

[C AllStar]

I fully agree with Dat Blast's suggestion above aside from Florges. I feel that physically defensive Aromatisse may fit your team more. They share the same typing and movepool with Aromatisse being much more defensive physically while Floges have much better special bulk and some more power. However, if you added in SpDef Gastrodon to your team, there is much less need of having a special wall esecially when you also have Snorlax. Aromatisse provides against the numerous physical and dark types in the tier much better than Florges. To add in that, Aromatisse is completely immune to Taunt, solving your weakness against traditional stallbreakers like Mew, Sableye, Crobat etc much more effectively.

 

[KM]

An option to help with Mega Blastoise, the Nidos and Rotom-H is to replace Trevenant with specially defensive Gastrodon. Max SpDef over max Def allows you to avoid the 2HKO from Nidoking's Earth Power and threaten back with Scald or Earth Power, and can completely wall Blastoise + Rotom-H as well (barring the occasional HP Grass I guess). Trevenant seems to be the most expendable Pokemon on your team as it doesn't really wall anything your team can't already manage. To help against Mew you should probably consider Toxic over Dragon Tail on Kyurem, as with your heavy Speed investment you can outspeed and poison it before it can Taunt you, and heal off Synchronize later with Florges.

Also a lot of your movesets could use some tweaking. Florges would benefit much more from being physically defensive, allowing it to serve as an alternative check to Mienshao, Heracross, Weavile, etc and making better use out of its more physically-inclined defensive typing. Next, it makes no sense to use Thunder Wave on Qwilifish because a) this is a stall team and b) it synergizes awkwardly with Toxic Spikes, so I would suggest replacing it with either Spikes or Taunt, the former of which can stack up extra entry hazards and the latter can deter setup. Finally, Snorlax would benefit from using a mixed defensive EV spread of 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SDef Careful, as full investment in special bulk is unnecessary due to Snorlax's already insane HP + SpD. I also think Pursuit would also see some merit over Sleep Talk (optional though) as you're somewhat weak to CB Victini, doing 55% minimum at -1 from V-create to help prevent it from continuously switching in.

Suggested changes

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Recover

Kyurem: Dragon Tail --> Toxic

Florges: change to a physically defensive EV spread

Qwilfish: Thunder Wave --> either Spikes or Taunt

Snorlax: EV spread --> 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SDef with a Careful nature, Sleep Talk --> Pursuit

Heya. Thanks a lot for all the feedback, I can definitely see where you're coming from for all of it. Specially defensive Gastro is a great idea, and it's something I'll try out pretty soon. I'll definitely go for full SpD. However, I do have a couple of qualms with the other suggestions. First of all, I find thunder wave to be pretty imperative on Qwilfish. Toxic Spikes, while important to the team, can not be assumed to be up all the time - and if I'm against an offensive team of some type, I'd much rather have certain pokes paralyzed than poisoned. For instance, say I'm up against a weavile, who just Knocked off (unboosted), dealing decent damage and crippling some of my utility. If I run T-wave, I can T-Wave if he tries to stay in and SD, then follow it up with Toxic Spikes, para-flinch him until he dies, or gain some health back with pain split. Without thunder wave, though, my only tool for eliminating Weavile and preventing it from just getting up to +6 is to Waterfall; and while Qwilfish's attack is respectable, it's not about to OHKO anything while uninvested. Moreover, there are tons of threats that are immune to Toxic spikes and not to t-wave that I definitely want to get status on - most notably Jirachi, Mega-Aggron, Cobalion (another example of something that can set up in my face sans TWave), and the occasional levitator/flying type. Slowing things down in general just works so well with Qwilfish - it gives him hax chance with Waterfall, allows him to take punishing hits, cripple them with twave, and then heal back up, and ensures that he can safely get spikes down. Besides, idk why paralysis on stall has such a bad rap. It allows me to set up hazards, set up subs, and generally gain momentum and get a leg up on my opponent, which is pretty crucial.

While I can see spikes or taunt being useful, I use Qwilfish mainly as a very tanky pivot and utility poke. If I know there's something that can set up on me or can safely spin away my rocks without having to fear anything (read; mega blastoise), I'll straight double switch. As such, I rarely ever get two layers of toxic spikes up, much less have time to set up spikes as well.

I can definitely see lots of merit to changing Kyurem's Dragon Tail. I really don't use it all too much, and while it's nice as an emergency, I don't get enough hazards up to warrant having two dedicated phazers. However, I'm not too big of a fan of Toxic either - if Toxic Spikes are down, there really isn't much I'll be hitting with Toxic that would be worth losing the coverage that dragon tail provides, and if they're not down, I would prioritize setting them up, as I mainly use Kyurem in the late game. I think there are better options to try out in that slot though - I've been considering earth power (for steels), iron head (for florges/mixed coverage), or Protect (for more pressure stalling, toxic damage, etc).

If I do decide to add SpD Gastro, which I probably will, the Florges EV change makes a lot of sense to me. I'll get back on how that goes.

The Snorlax changes look interesting, but I'm not sure about how practical they are. Snorlax is the win condition for the team, and that relies on him being able to take a ton of special and physical hits combined. I can't really see those physical EVs being all too useful once I have a couple of curses. Is there anything big and specific that those EVs allow me to survive that my current EVs don't? I'm especially hesitant to minimize the amount of HP on it. Pursuit, while intriguing, doesn't seem all too useful either. Snorlax's role isn't really to counter anything in particular - it's purely my win condition. I would never switch it into a banded v-create, that's sort of what I have Qwilfish for. Besides, taking 60% of damage on my wincon just to pursuit a victini doesn't seem all too sustainable. More importantly, if I switch from trevenant to Gastrodon, I lose my main RestTalk CMCune and SubCM cresselia counter, both of which are scary in the metagame. Snorlax can very easily deal with both of them, but only if he has sleep talk to get the Returns and Curses up (however unreliably).

C AllStar Aromatisse looks -interesting-. I may try out it out. However, it just doesn't look generally bulky enough or powerful enough to do what I want to do. I'll see how it works out, because I've never tried it before, and i'm certainly intrigued. ty for the feedback :)