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Cinderdrill scares me a little but it shouldn't be too difficult to stop, this on the other hand... This would even be too powerful even back during FE v5 where everything was power crept to hell. No way is 155 base attack with pseudo Huge Power and 123 base speed AND that typing even remotely balanced. If this got voted in it would be on every single team until it got banned for being too broken.
I'm not so sure of that, the walls in this meta are very formidable:
+2 252 Atk Zinc-C Play Rough vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Zalula: 120-142 (25.8 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Zinc-C Play Rough vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Lazugari: 106-126 (23.8 - 28.3%) -- 95.4% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unamazed Quagsirom: 118-141 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- 48.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tommy's Room Wiseau: 64-76 (14.9 - 17.7%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
Plus, its STABs are blocked by Poison-types and Steel/Ghosts, as well as some Fire-types, giving many mons the opportunity to revenge kill. I've shuffled the stats to make it easier to outspeed it.
Voting is open!
Just a small heads up, Dragapult/Marshadow is disqualified for being too overpowered, and Falinks/Zacian-Crowned may or may not be banned if it wins (needs further inspection but isn't disqualified).
Vote for up to 10 fusions submitted on this slate.
I'm not so sure of that, the walls in this meta are very formidable:
+2 252 Atk Zinc-C Play Rough vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Zalula: 120-142 (25.8 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Zinc-C Play Rough vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Lazugari: 106-126 (23.8 - 28.3%) -- 95.4% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unamazed Quagsirom: 118-141 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- 48.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tommy's Room Wiseau: 64-76 (14.9 - 17.7%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
Plus, its STABs are blocked by Poison-types and Steel/Ghosts, as well as some Fire-types, giving many mons the opportunity to revenge kill. I've shuffled the stats to make it easier to outspeed it.
I didn't even know those first two fusions existed but after looking at them in the spreadsheet I feel like they are just broken themselves and should be banned too, so maybe not the greatest example.
Other than that I feel like specifically choosing two of the very few unaware-based defensive mons is a bit unfair as a comparison considering they are specifically built to deal with this sort of Pokemon and aren't likely to see play on many non-stall teams otherwise if Quagsire in regular Pokemon is anything to go by, especially since you didn't even use Close Combat in the calcs which would add a fair bit of damage.
Voting is open!
Just a small heads up, Dragapult/Marshadow is disqualified for being too overpowered, and Falinks/Zacian-Crowned may or may not be banned if it wins (needs further inspection but isn't disqualified).
Vote for up to 10 fusions submitted on this slate.
May I know why Dragapult/Marshadow is too overpowered? Imo several submissions are far more busted than this one (notably Morpeko+Zacian, Zeraora+Dracozolt, Stonjourner+Zamazenta, and Necrozma+Stonjourner). 125 Base Attack isn't that strong and fairy/steel are everywhere to stop its powerful Dragon Darts (other moves aren't that strong).
While we're talking about balance concerns I'd like to at least bring up Falinks + Swoobat, which after using 1 move gets +2 in every stat and a STAB 220 BP Stored Power. Not the the healthiest fusion I've ever seen tbh, but then again there's a lot of broken shit in this mod so eh
May I know why Dragapult/Marshadow is too overpowered? Imo several submissions are far more busted than this one (notably Morpeko+Zacian, Zeraora+Dracozolt, Stonjourner+Zamazenta, and Necrozma+Stonjourner). 125 Base Attack isn't that strong and fairy/steel are everywhere to stop its powerful Dragon Darts (other moves aren't that strong).
We crack down on Marshadow fusions extra hard due to a number of things. Lucashadow and Cinshado are both banned, the unbanned one is combined with Miltank. The thing with Marshadow is that it can steal stat boosts before damage. If the dozens of Beast Boost fusions weren't enough, we'll also get an increasing number of Intrepid Sword/Dauntless Shield fusions, so more and more boosts to steal.
In the case of Dragapult/Marshadow specifically, it would be the 8th fastest base fusion (can usually steal boosts before foe moves), would have its own set-up move and be able to steal stat boosts, would have a 150 BP STAB move that breaks Sash (this is important and also the reason Cinshado got banned, it can't be revenge killed by Sash mons unless they're Fairy) with 60 BP STAB priority (making it harder to revenge kill with priority), also it's immune to Mach Punch and Extreme Speed without Scrappy or -ate.
Others you mentioned have at least a chance of being defeated by E-Speed or Mach Punch, a foe with Defense boosts, a foe with Sash and a bigger range of Scarfed mons. Also, Necrozma+Stonjourner's Ultra will definitely be banned. I think all Ultras we have are banned lol.
Lastly, you're right about Morpeko / Zacian-Crowned. It will also be looked into if it wins.
We crack down on Marshadow fusions extra hard due to a number of things. Lucashadow and Cinshado are both banned, the unbanned one is combined with Miltank.
Mega Lucashadow is understandable because of Adaptability combined with a lack of resistances besides Normal/Ghost, while Cinshado gets a ~190 BP STAB (though personally I debate the banning of this it doesn't seem that bad). Drashadow, on the other hand, has only a 150 BP STAB that's blocked by a common, viable type (Fairy) and resisted by another common and viable type (Steel).
The thing with Marshadow is that it can steal stat boosts before damage. If the dozens of Beast Boost fusions weren't enough, we'll also get an increasing number of Intrepid Sword/Dauntless Shield fusions, so more and more boosts to steal.
With behemoths such as Zalula and Xurkivoir, I think we can safely say the meta is about Ubers tier. And guess what? Marshadow has existed in the Ubers tier with no problems at all! And yet it outspeeds 90% of the top 50 mons in the tier! How could this be?
One look at Marshadow's checks and counters gives you the answer: defensive counterplay. I feel like this is pretty obvious: use mons that have high physical bulk and/or resist its most potent STAB(s).
would have a 150 BP STAB move that breaks Sash (this is important and also the reason Cinshado got banned, it can't be revenge killed by Sash mons unless they're Fairy)
You know what also exists? Choice Scarf. Any mon above 82 base Speed and passable Defense can check Drashadow. No one has used Focus Sash to check Marshadow in Ubers, so it seems more like a player skill issue than a Marshadow fusion issue.
Pretty weak point - there are 55 fusions that are -ate/Scrappy or at least include it in an ability fusion, and I'd expect many of these to have Extreme Speed. Also, priority is a shaky check to anything.
The way you paint the meta seems like everyone is just packing hyperoffensive teams, which is pretty disappointing given all of the great defensive fusions that exist. Even with the "haha fuck stall am i right XD" mentality that seems to be on many people's minds here, you can at the very least tack on at least one or two walls so you don't rely on Focus Sash of all things.
Also Yahooboo Zalula and Lazugari were workshopped by me and Aquatic after I offhandedly remarked that the FE Meta had become so aggro centralized that we could make a fusion with doubled defenses and it wouldn't even be broken. They're among the best defensive fusions, but there's already many things capable of beating both of them. We did calcs before submission to make sure they weren't as big a problem as they seem at first glance. They're fine.
Here's one that's kind of complicated. New ability and desc: Mood Swing. Upon taking a physical attack, Eismanicue takes no damage and reverts to its Panicked form. Alternately, if it hasn't form changed and has HP<50%, it enters its Enraged form.
I LOOOOVE form-changing Abilities, especially those that change stats competitively. I was planning on doing this one, so I have a passion about it.
However, in order to get my vote, I'd say it is missing one more form. Namely, the form of being panicked below half its maximum HP, which changes form again when Hail is active. Does this make sense?
In the lead with 7 votes is the Galarian cousin of a familiar face all the way from V1. That certain mon's newly winning cousin is... Runereelix!
Type: Ground/Steel Stats: 76/100/182/62/95/40 Ability:Armored Wanderer (Sturdy + Wandering Spirit) - Sturdy but immediately after activation, swap abilities with the attacker.
(Sprite by Aquatic, edited by me) Mega Typing: Ground/Steel Mega Stats: 76/140/212/62/125/40 Mega Ability: Sand Force
Following in the pack lead with five votes each: Rune Thorns and Suplexelpus!
Type: Steel/Ground Stats: 76/104/148/62/120/35 Ability:Artifact Curse (Iron Barbs + Wandering Spirit) - Wandering Spirit + When this Ability activates, the attacker loses 12.5% of its max HP per turn.
And last but not least, five more winners enter, each bringing home four votes: Quagmire-Crowned, Cogalyph, Escaskorch, Kyuvatron, and Cramazanta-Carped!
Type: Water/Steel Stats: 113/110/115/75/115/85 Ability:Unaware Shield (Unaware + Dauntless Shield) - This Pokemon ignores other Pokemon's stat stages when taking or doing damage; raises Defense by 1 when doing either.
Type: Steel/Psychic Stats: 91/74/110/116/81/102 Ability:Revenge Guard (Justified + Magic Guard) - Any indirect damage is nullified, each instance becoming a +1 Attack boost instead.
Type: Fire/Steel Stats: 95/135/95/85/107/52 Ability:Flammable Spray (Swarm + Flash Fire) - Immune to Bug and Fire. x1.5 damage on its moves of those types of hit by one such move; x2 damage on such moves if hit by any more.
Type: Electric/Ice Stats: 97/98/75/153/80/121 Ability:Heat-Seeking Radiation (Compound Eyes + Turboblaze) - This Pokémon’s moves have perfect accuracy and ignore abilities.
Type: Steel/Water Stats: 101/107/110/82/130/106 Ability:Reactive Armor (Dauntless Shield + Gulp Missile) - Component effects + Prey can also be obtained when this Pokémon's Defense is boosted by at least one combat stage.
And with all that out of the way, Discussion Phase has begun! Feel free to talk about our winning eight fusions for this round.
no fuckin clue what this does, a slightly faster sigilyph with a better typing? sounds like worse aegislash fusions if youre looking for a tank that can do some damage
so you iron defense while the opponent switches to a special attacker and then do like 20 while they set up on hit you on the special side instead. pretty wack mon just use quagmire instead lol
"just sounds pretty dumb, not useful ability and octolock is the only thing good about it, sure it pressures stall but it dies to anything else lol "
You aren't thinking about this one very hard. Imo doubility was definitely not the way I would have gone with this, but despite having a very (very very very) subpar ability it does have excellent defensive stats with a decent defensive typing and excellent defensive movepool. It can perform the role of a wall while also being unwallable by enemy stall mons. Pretty good niche.
"incredible and absolutely phenomenal"
Agreed. This was one of the things I was workshopping right before I saw someone subbed it already. Works for me since they made it exactly the way I was going to. I see Quagmire-Crowned becoming one of the defensive staples of FE like Chazma, Zalula, and Lazugari.
"no fuckin clue what this does, a slightly faster sigilyph with a better typing? sounds like worse aegislash fusions if youre looking for a tank that can do some damage"
Guessing you're not in the discord then. I actually made this as a Clefable + Cobalion fusion and had to change Clefable for Sigilyph to make it more balanced, because it was insanely overpowered. Now allow me to explain exactly how dangerous Revenge Guard really makes this thing.
First off, it allows Cogalyph to use Steel Beam as its steel type special attack STAB without recoil damage while also giving it a free +1 attack every time it's used. Why does the attack matter? We'll get to that. Now say you want to beef up its damage a little more because Cogalyph's special attack isn't that good. Just give it a Life Orb for the extra +30% damage without the usual recoil damage and giving an additional +1 attack every time Cogalyph deals damage. Say you're using it on a Hail team, that's an extra +1 attack at the end of every turn. All that together and we're at +3 after a single turn. Surely at base 74 attack that won't mean much right? But wait, it learns Stored Power! So after one turn of using a base 140 power STAB attack Stored Power is boosted up to base 80 power. That's not too crazy though... But what if Cogalyph switches in on stealth rock? No damage, +1 Attack. What if it switches in on Spikes? No damage, +1 Attack. Spikes aren't really a big thing though. Anyway, the point is that Cogalyph can gain so many stacks of attack so fast that between Steel Beam & Stored Power is can start punching some really big holes really fast. Also you can run Rock Polish, Calm Mind, and Cosmic Power to strengthen Stored Power even further with each move giving it some bonus that makes it even harder to deal with. The only thing really holding it back is its relatively small movepool.
"so you iron defense while the opponent switches to a special attacker and then do like 20 while they set up on hit you on the special side instead. pretty wack mon just use quagmire instead lol"
Steel/Water type, 101/110/130 bulk, knows Roost, knows Stockpile, and has an ability that damages opponents regardless of which offense they use. Quagmire-Crowned is for tanking damage, Cramazanta-Carped is for tanking damage while also dishing it out. Imo they're more side grades of each other than anything. Either you want to have a hard counter to most set-up sweepers or you want to kill everything with chip from a fish machine gun.
Dex.pokemonshowdown, Serebii.net, Bulbagarden.bulbapedia description:
The Pokémon exchanges Abilities with a Pokémon that hits it with a move that makes direct contact. Play.pokemonshowdown description:
Exchanges abilities when hitting a Pokémon with a contact move.
Apparently, Runerigus is crap, because the play.pokemonshowdown description IS WRONG.
Armored Wanderer (Sturdy + Wandering Spirit) - Sturdy but immediately after activation, swap abilities with the attacker.
Uh… I voted for this?
This is like… Sturdy but with No Ability, and Mummy but with a swap instead of an overwrite.
It lost its competitive spunk because once it gets hit with a move, it loses its value. What good is any obtainable Ability at 1HP?
And it only performs the swap if the ability activates. That means jack for Wandering Spirit's perks. It also totally overlooks the how Wandering Spirit is an offensive "Touch" Ability, not a defensive "Point" Ability. In fact, it overlooks the contact perks altogether.
I love the stats, moves, etc. but this? Sorry, but now I feel embarrassed. No offense on its maker, I just don't see the point of this Ability. Sheer Force would be better
Artifact Curse (Iron Barbs + Wandering Spirit) - Wandering Spirit + When this Ability activates, the attacker loses 12.5% of its max HP per turn.
So what you're saying is when it attacks, it loses 12.5% max HP, and then swaps Abilities?
This was the moment when OPStellar realized…
HE SCREWED UP.
I suddenly hate Runegrigus with a passion.
This fusion Ability is OK. I really like the defenses. Blah, blah, keeping it positive. (I'm bad at this.)
just sounds pretty dumb, not useful ability and octolock is the only thing good about it, sure it pressures stall but it dies to anything else lol
Notice: I did pose the question in the original post that I would like feedback on whether solely having Limber is worth the Doubility stat bonus, or if it would be better to give it a custom Ability.
It's your fault for not answering if you don't like what you see. And to respond to your curiosity: Its point is that it doesn't get paralyzed by Electric attacks, Bounce, Dragon Breath, Body Slam, Static, etc. even though it's weak to Electric moves. This way, it never misses a chance to strike, even though it is no longer a Poison specialist.
This Pokemon ignores other Pokemon's stat stages when taking or doing damage; raises Defense by 1 when doing either.
Raises Defense by 1 whenever calculating damage. Ignores stat stage changes. That's one hefty non-extant Body Press. Still affected by Burn and negative Atk/SpA stats. I don't see the point. Oh wait, this was Anaconja's… no wonder it's useless.
Any indirect damage is nullified, each instance becoming a +1 Attack boost instead.
So it's still weak to Dark types. If you say "any opposing dark-type move and all indirect damage is nullified against this Pokémon," then you get a free Dark immunity in addition to shutting down the opponent's use of Nasty Plot, Parting Shot, Switcheroo, Topsy-Turvy, etc. while simultaneously reaping benefits, just because you can!
But you didn't.
So, eh…
Immune to Bug and Fire. x1.5 damage on its moves of those types of hit by one such move; x2 damage on such moves if hit by any more.
Okay, so it doesn't stack… but what chances exist that you'll be hit by either unless you switch into it? Also, Turboblaze won't even look at this.
This Pokémon’s moves have perfect accuracy and ignore abilities.
Uhm… ok? Or not okay because 153 SpA at 121 Spe getting STAB on moves like Blizzard and Thunder with 110bp and being unable to miss with either of those and Focus Blast with 120bp… Yeah, nah-ah. No, thank you.
Ability:Reactive Armor (Dauntless Shield + Gulp Missile) - Component effects + Prey can also be obtained when this Pokémon's Defense is boosted by at least one combat stage.
This is good. I see nothing wrong here, except that Kyuvatron will make quick toast of it.
