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Garchomp, the most broken pokemon in OU.
- Thread starter xcfrisco
- Start date
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Or can just send out Garchomps out before they can...
Yeah but by everyones logic, Garchomp is unstoppable, so if you use one first, they can't stop you. Oh, and their logic of how Garchomp could miss against the other Garchomp which would make Garchomp a counter etc etc
This will be a lot of fun when it turns out to be chain chomp
More so fun when he switches to Cresselia.
I don't understand the logic of "If it has no 100% counters its uber". That means that Heracross is uber, having only two counters to Stone Edge/Megahorn/Night Slash/Close Combat, both of which can be beaten by gimmick sets (Specs HP Ice and Swords Dance, Toxic Orb Facade).
But does get Brightpowder for the great 1 in 12 chance of winning!
Not so much unstoppable, just way too good for OU.
If you have to use Garchomp to beat any Garchomp, you're just proving the opposition's point MoP. If every team that wants to win needs Garchomp, well, it's uber. I'm not saying that is true, though, just that he is very close to that, a lot more than most of the other Pokemon being brought for tier changes either way (besides the thread by Obi, but he believes Garchomp is worse than anything he mention).
Really, saying use Garchomp is an argument that won't work in this thread.
Do you have the link to said thread? It's rather annoying that searching is disabled. =/
I predict a rise in Hail team usage thanks to all the "Garchomp is uber!" hype.
Oh well. It would be nice to fight something different for a change.
Oh well. It would be nice to fight something different for a change.
CB Chomp normally 2HKOs with Outrage... and even CB crunch will 2HKO almost all of the time if Stealth Rock is active.
wow so many morons...
honestly i dont think anyone here actually has much trouble against garchomps, he's easy to use. and i hate the aproaches on arguements. "oh no he needs counters" guess what? A team needs a counter to infernape, salamence, ttar, etc. That arguement fails.
"he has no counters" very false. lets say i list hippowdon as a counter. you guys say oh no "he's a chain chomp now" you cannot switch movesets midgame! ... look while i was writing this another person changed it back to cb chomp
lol... dont keep changing what set hes using. if your taking all movesets into acount then garchomp isnt the only one without counters.
guys stop bitchin garchomp isnt broken.
honestly i dont think anyone here actually has much trouble against garchomps, he's easy to use. and i hate the aproaches on arguements. "oh no he needs counters" guess what? A team needs a counter to infernape, salamence, ttar, etc. That arguement fails.
"he has no counters" very false. lets say i list hippowdon as a counter. you guys say oh no "he's a chain chomp now" you cannot switch movesets midgame! ... look while i was writing this another person changed it back to cb chomp
lol... dont keep changing what set hes using. if your taking all movesets into acount then garchomp isnt the only one without counters.
Who says you need a weather team? ugh you guys are so just anti garchomp that you are making ridiculus arguements
guys stop bitchin garchomp isnt broken.
Why just hail? Why not go with Rain or Sun, both of which have some strong interactions.
I'm seriously thinking about seeing if I can work Sunny Day into my team now.
Because, they can easily switch in T-Tar or Hippo to re-instate their weather. You have to waste a moveslot to use Rain or Sun.
But one advantage is that you can restart the weather once T.Tar comes in, then he has to leave and come back.
Or, you can start Rain or Sun, then predict T.Tar coming in to change the Weather and either use your Weather move on the Switch (Negating T.Tar's ability) or Knock out T.Tar.
There is an advantage to having an ability that induces weather, and I wish more pokemon had Drizzle or Drought, but packing a weather inducing move isn't a terrible idea.
I think what a lot of people here misunderstand is what "Overpowered" means. Everything has a counter. Even a mewtwo with +6 SPatk and +6 speed can still be killed if you know that you'll be facing that. Still, Mewtwo is overpowered, or "Uber". That is because in a normal game, it's hard to counter Mewtwo without using Ubers. Even if your prediction is flawless, if you don't have the right team, you lose to Mewtwo. Of course, this can be said for anything: However, you'll be forced to take some things especially for Mewtwo, that have no use besides countering Mewtwo. Now you're essentially forced to use an extra moveslot, which weakens the overall strength of your team. That's what makes Mewtwo Uber.
Now, let's take a look at Mew. His stats are 100 all around, which isn't very interesting. Yet, Mew is Uber. Why? Versatility. Let's say you see a Mew in a match. A lot of Mews are batton passers, so you switch to your Phazer (let's take Swampert as an example). However, instead of statting up, you eat a Spec'd Grass Knot. Next time you see a Mew, you don't know whether it's going to Pass, or be a Specs. So you switch in Blissey, who's packing Sing, and... whoops. Mew is a Choicebander this time.
Mew has so much variety, that there is no set counter. Until you have lost one of your Pokemon (or, you use protect on the first turn it can attack, but by then it could've gotten a swords dance in), you have no way to know what kind of Mew it is, and how to counter it. This means Mew alone can demolish an entire team: Before you can react to it, Mew will already have passed some stats to a sweeper, and you'll have a lot of trouble even staying alive, let alone make a comeback. That is why Mew is Uber.
Now, let's take a look at why Garchomp should be Uber.
1) It is very strong, and you need a set counter to it
2) There are multiple builds (suicide sweeper, chainchomp, SD/sub), that are vastly different, so you have no way of knowing how to get rid of the monster.
Now that point 2 has popped up, Garchomp can become a problem. Before, there was only 1 kind of build, and even though Garchomp is strong, it's not too strong. It can almost always be countered by one specific Pokemon, so it's not a really big problem. But now that there are multiple builds, you have to take specific counters to a Pokemon that can easily rape a whole team. To find out what kind of Garchomp it is, so you can counter it, you'll already be crippled: Either the Chomp stats up, or one of your pokemon is (near) dead. Only then can you switch your counter in, if you have a Pokemon that can take care of this Garchomp build.
And then you miss your attack.
Because of Sand veil, it's possible to lose your only way of saving your team because of something you can't control. Yes, it's also possible to lose because your Stone edge or your Hypnosis missed. However, these are things that you can control: You can take Rock Slide instead of SE, or dump Hypnosis. However, there is nothing you can do about Sand Veil, but change the weather.
Weather-changing, however, is inefficient. Generally, non-SS weather teams are bad (with the exception of the recently discovered awesomeness of hail teams). Sunlight sucks, as there's no ability to bring it up in OU and you won't have time to use the move when there's a Garchomp on the loose. Same with Rain. Hail is the only one that's able to counter Garchomp. However, the best way to get it in is with Abomasnow's ability. If Garchomp comes in while SS is up, that means you'll have to sacrifice Abomasnow just to get rid of the SS, heavily crippling your team.
However, if you don't use a hail-team, as it is quite limiting, you're F-ed when Sand Veil is up. There's nothing you can do about missing because of Sand Veil, which sucks.
Now, let's take a look at Mew. His stats are 100 all around, which isn't very interesting. Yet, Mew is Uber. Why? Versatility. Let's say you see a Mew in a match. A lot of Mews are batton passers, so you switch to your Phazer (let's take Swampert as an example). However, instead of statting up, you eat a Spec'd Grass Knot. Next time you see a Mew, you don't know whether it's going to Pass, or be a Specs. So you switch in Blissey, who's packing Sing, and... whoops. Mew is a Choicebander this time.
Mew has so much variety, that there is no set counter. Until you have lost one of your Pokemon (or, you use protect on the first turn it can attack, but by then it could've gotten a swords dance in), you have no way to know what kind of Mew it is, and how to counter it. This means Mew alone can demolish an entire team: Before you can react to it, Mew will already have passed some stats to a sweeper, and you'll have a lot of trouble even staying alive, let alone make a comeback. That is why Mew is Uber.
Now, let's take a look at why Garchomp should be Uber.
1) It is very strong, and you need a set counter to it
2) There are multiple builds (suicide sweeper, chainchomp, SD/sub), that are vastly different, so you have no way of knowing how to get rid of the monster.
Now that point 2 has popped up, Garchomp can become a problem. Before, there was only 1 kind of build, and even though Garchomp is strong, it's not too strong. It can almost always be countered by one specific Pokemon, so it's not a really big problem. But now that there are multiple builds, you have to take specific counters to a Pokemon that can easily rape a whole team. To find out what kind of Garchomp it is, so you can counter it, you'll already be crippled: Either the Chomp stats up, or one of your pokemon is (near) dead. Only then can you switch your counter in, if you have a Pokemon that can take care of this Garchomp build.
And then you miss your attack.
Because of Sand veil, it's possible to lose your only way of saving your team because of something you can't control. Yes, it's also possible to lose because your Stone edge or your Hypnosis missed. However, these are things that you can control: You can take Rock Slide instead of SE, or dump Hypnosis. However, there is nothing you can do about Sand Veil, but change the weather.
Weather-changing, however, is inefficient. Generally, non-SS weather teams are bad (with the exception of the recently discovered awesomeness of hail teams). Sunlight sucks, as there's no ability to bring it up in OU and you won't have time to use the move when there's a Garchomp on the loose. Same with Rain. Hail is the only one that's able to counter Garchomp. However, the best way to get it in is with Abomasnow's ability. If Garchomp comes in while SS is up, that means you'll have to sacrifice Abomasnow just to get rid of the SS, heavily crippling your team.
However, if you don't use a hail-team, as it is quite limiting, you're F-ed when Sand Veil is up. There's nothing you can do about missing because of Sand Veil, which sucks.
Yes, but you are missing the point. Yes weather changers are a good idea, but you are limited to 5 or 8 PP of Sunny Day or Rain Dance. While T-Tar can switch in more than 8 times [Maybe, depends on the move] and same with Hippo, without wasting one slot for weather. That is a huge difference. The slot used to change weather could be used to serve a better spot like Ice Beam or EQ to hurt Hippo and T-Tar respectivly.
Not a general disagreement, but if you let T.Tar switch in 8+ times, you deserve to lose.
I agree there is the cost of a move slot to the weather inducing moves. However, there's ways to make that Weather Move mean more than "just" changing the weather, even for Sunny Day and Rain Dance. Both power up a move type, power down an opposing move type, and have a list of moves that become much more useful after use.
For example, Sunny Day would help my current team a lot. It won't be easy to work into my team's move pool, but I'm starting to really look at it.
This whole arguement is useless. Honestly. Look at other pokemon that are hard to counter because of what? again multiple sets. Try to counter salamence and i could make a set that makes him beat that counter. The reason versatality should not be taken into consideration when your deciding if something is to good for OU (garchomp definately isnt) is because to many things end up looking WAY harder to stop on paper and in theorymon than in an actual battle.
A few Pokemon that are as versatile or more versatile than Garchomp:
Salamence
Tyranitar
Gengar
Infernape
those are just a few. oh and also think about this, when you see a garchomp you know its moveset is a combo dragon, ground, fire, sub, swords dance
Look at the pokes on my list. They are a lot more than chomp
Don't bring sandveil into this arguement because that cant be changed and if you do then you need to get rid of a lot of pokemon (like gliscor)
Metagames adapt, we have adapted to garchomp, of course he affects the metagame he's strong, but he's not to strong. if you claim he causes overcentralization then your being a moron. Look at Blissey, it causes adaption by forcing pure special attacking teams away. in the end it all balances out.
And as far as needing an ice move being overcentralized, no. just no. There are like 15+ very common pokemon weak to ice, we should be using it anyways. Not to mention Ice is arguably the best attacking type
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