Pet Mod [Gen 1] Rose Red/Iris Blue

Does partial trapping still interrupt the opponent? If so, are you considering removing that effect?
Partial trapping still functions exactly the same as it did in vanilla RBY, preventing opponents from attacking but allowing switching. The main issue with it in vanilla RBY play is that it essentially wastes up to 64 turns because you have to pp stall the move with each switch. However, reducing the PP of trapping moves to 8 as well as the max trap duration to 3 turns (as opposed to 5) does a few things.

1) It pretty much kills partial trapping sweep potential
2) It doesn't unreasonably prolong the game because it takes 8 turns to deplete the move

To slightly compensate these heavy nerfs, the moves have a small increase in base power. These trap moves are now best used as a pivoting tool as opposed to an obnoxious sweeping option. Essentially, they're the closest you'll get to U-turn or Volt Switch now. They're still inaccurate and gimmicky like in vanilla play, but now they contribute much more healthily to the metagame than before. There currently aren't any considerations to outright remove these effects from the metagame.
 
Excuse the double post. Registration for our first tournament is here, featuring a $50 prize for the winner. Whether you are interested in mods, like RBY, or just want to get that bread, it can't hurt to sign up and play. Registration closes on August 4th at 11:59 pm EST, so get prepping!
 
Partial trapping still functions exactly the same as it did in vanilla RBY, preventing opponents from attacking but allowing switching. The main issue with it in vanilla RBY play is that it essentially wastes up to 64 turns because you have to pp stall the move with each switch. However, reducing the PP of trapping moves to 8 as well as the max trap duration to 3 turns (as opposed to 5) does a few things.

1) It pretty much kills partial trapping sweep potential
2) It doesn't unreasonably prolong the game because it takes 8 turns to deplete the move

To slightly compensate these heavy nerfs, the moves have a small increase in base power. These trap moves are now best used as a pivoting tool as opposed to an obnoxious sweeping option. Essentially, they're the closest you'll get to U-turn or Volt Switch now. They're still inaccurate and gimmicky like in vanilla play, but now they contribute much more healthily to the metagame than before. There currently aren't any considerations to outright remove these effects from the metagame.
My question becomes simple: why not buff the accuracy to 100%? It'd make them more reliable but not OP. A niche move in fact, but one that does not rely on luck to be effective.

This specific question is connected to a broader one: why not boost the accuracy of most moves? I do believe a competitive metagame should get rid of as much RNG as possible. You buffed toxic for example but didn't fix the atrocious game design (from a competitive standpoint) of 90/95 accuracy moves.

This project is extremely interesting (even though I'm probably never gonna play, I love the theoretical approach to metagame balancing), so I'll probably give my unrequired input from time to time on different matters.
 
This specific question is connected to a broader one: why not boost the accuracy of most moves? I do believe a competitive metagame should get rid of as much RNG as possible. You buffed toxic for example but didn't fix the atrocious game design (from a competitive standpoint) of 90/95 accuracy moves.
I mostly agree with this and personally think accuracy's only purpose is forcing players to think twice before spamming an overpowered move. In this particular format, the only moves that have any business being less than 100% accurate are attacks with more than 90 BP and no drawbacks (ie not hyper beam or submission), and moves that cause sleep, paralysis, or confusion. If moves like hyper beam or hyper fang would be broken with 100% accuracy, then I'd rather lower their BP while still raising their accuracy. In addition to wrap-like moves, I think these moves should have 100% accuracy (suggested BP in parentheses):

hyper beam (135 BP), rock slide (75 BP), pin missile (20 BP), razor leaf, sky attack (130 BP), toxic, hyper fang (120 BP), submission, karate chop
 
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My question becomes simple: why not buff the accuracy to 100%? It'd make them more reliable but not OP. A niche move in fact, but one that does not rely on luck to be effective.

This specific question is connected to a broader one: why not boost the accuracy of most moves? I do believe a competitive metagame should get rid of as much RNG as possible. You buffed toxic for example but didn't fix the atrocious game design (from a competitive standpoint) of 90/95 accuracy moves.

This project is extremely interesting (even though I'm probably never gonna play, I love the theoretical approach to metagame balancing), so I'll probably give my unrequired input from time to time on different matters.
This entire proposal boils down to one topic: the handling of risk-reward.

Trapping moves, despite the large nerfs, are still very rewarding when they hit. For example, they can let a Moltres 1v1 special walls throughout a game by brainlessly using a STAB, and then using the trapping move to deny healing while switching out to a teammate. The only reasonable deterrent to this, without outright removing the effect, is a miss rate. That way, there is substantial risk to substantially high reward.

There are some moves that have been brought up to me as having questionable miss rates, notably Submission and Rock Slide. I agree that these moves which do not have high rewards should have their imperfect accuracy buffed from standard play, to 100. These low/medium reward moves will definitely be given some love in the next big code update.

However... moves like Blizzard, Hyper Beam, Fire Blast, Hyper Fang, etc. need a miss rate to add more risk to their very high reward. It's possible to give them perfect accuracy and add drastic drawbacks to the usage of these moves, but in practice this is very unnecessary for the metagame and it's most apparent when actually playing the format. The metagame has been balanced to more than adequately handle high-risk/high-reward moves in many ways, and changing the properties of common moves will require large amounts of rebalancing to keep the metagame properly in check. This is an interesting theorycraft that could be deserving of its own pet mod, but it's outside the scope of Rose Red/Iris Blue's goal.

I mostly agree with this and personally think accuracy's only purpose is forcing players to think twice before spamming an overpowered move. In this particular format, the only moves that have any business being less than 100% accurate are attacks with more than 90 BP and no drawbacks (ie not hyper beam or submission), and moves that cause sleep, paralysis, or confusion. If moves like hyper beam or hyper fang would be broken with 100% accuracy, then I'd rather lower their BP while still raising their accuracy. In addition to wrap-like moves, I think these moves should have 100% accuracy (suggested BP in parentheses):

hyper beam (135 BP), rock slide (75 BP), pin missile (25 BP), razor leaf, sky attack (130 BP), toxic, hyper fang (120 BP), submission, karate chop
Regarding removing miss rate altogether for the sake of "competitiveness", this is a concept that is deserving of an entire pet mod dedicated for itself. Removing crucial aspects of Pokemon for the sake of lowering risk-reward isn't inherently a bad thing, but it's also not inherently good either and requires drastic rebalancing, as well as starting a slippery slope.

For example, removing miss rates for the sake of neutralizing risk-reward would also mean that crit rate should be removed for the sake of decreasing risk-reward level discrepancies. But once you do this, how do you check Amnesia or Reflect users? No items and increased overall bulk means it would be much harder to break something like Amnesia Slowbro without the use of crit rate in gen 1, making a would-be check like Tbolt Starmie setup fodder. Well it's simple, let's ban or nerf Amnesia and Reflect right? That's doable, but now Pokemon like Slowbro and Dewgong are left significantly weaker or nicheless. So you rebalance them, sure. But without crit rate, some faster Pokemon like Jolteon and Tauros lose a lot of cleaning/wallbreaking potential. Let's rebalance them. Additionally, moves that always crit wouldn't work anymore so Pokemon like Persian, Pinsir, and Kingler lose their niches. Let's rebalance them then. Do all these nerfs to attacks make specific walls too powerful? Does this make metagame interactions more diverse? Most importantly, is the metagame in a better place than where we started? We're not sure. Things might have less risk-reward disparity, but that's not necessarily what defines a good game. Diversity, matchup spreads, and centralization are among the biggest factors of a healthy Pokemon metagame. Increasing consistency alone does not guarantee those three hugely important traits.

In the end, the theoretical results of this metagame direction is all uncertain. There are too many questions to be answered without actually testing all those theoretical changes. And worst of all, we've created a metagame far outside the original scope. The goal of RRIB is to balance every gen 1 pokemon to be RBY OU-viable, but we've removed the RBY OU part and made a whole new game. I'm not opposed to the idea of a haxless RBY, in fact I think it's a great idea that's worth developing! But it's something that should be reserved for a whole new pet mod, not something that overwrites a currently existing one.
 
Regarding removing miss rate altogether for the sake of "competitiveness", this is a concept that is deserving of an entire pet mod dedicated for itself. Removing crucial aspects of Pokemon for the sake of lowering risk-reward isn't inherently a bad thing, but it's also not inherently good either and requires drastic rebalancing, as well as starting a slippery slope.

For example, removing miss rates for the sake of neutralizing risk-reward would also mean that crit rate should be removed for the sake of decreasing risk-reward level discrepancies. But once you do this, how do you check Amnesia or Reflect users? No items and increased overall bulk means it would be much harder to break something like Amnesia Slowbro without the use of crit rate in gen 1, making a would-be check like Tbolt Starmie setup fodder. Well it's simple, let's ban or nerf Amnesia and Reflect right? That's doable, but now Pokemon like Slowbro and Dewgong are left significantly weaker or nicheless. So you rebalance them, sure. But without crit rate, some faster Pokemon like Jolteon and Tauros lose a lot of cleaning/wallbreaking potential. Let's rebalance them. Additionally, moves that always crit wouldn't work anymore so Pokemon like Persian, Pinsir, and Kingler lose their niches. Let's rebalance them then. Do all these nerfs to attacks make specific walls too powerful? Does this make metagame interactions more diverse? Most importantly, is the metagame in a better place than where we started? We're not sure. Things might have less risk-reward disparity, but that's not necessarily what defines a good game. Diversity, matchup spreads, and centralization are among the biggest factors of a healthy Pokemon metagame. Increasing consistency alone does not guarantee those three hugely important traits.
What did I ever do to imply that I wanted a completely haxless mod? I already said that I think miss rates sometimes have purpose and improve the game, and that strong attacks should miss sometimes if they have no other drawbacks. Why can't we remove only the hax that doesn't improve anything, like how you already removed the universal 255/256 accuracy? More specifically, what's wrong with making hyper beam 100% accurate if we lower its BP to compensate?

Also I take back the 25 BP pin missile suggestion. 20 BP seems more reasonable, so people use it over leech life only if they hate substitutes.
 
What did I ever do to imply that I wanted a completely haxless mod? I already said that I think miss rates sometimes have purpose and improve the game, and that strong attacks should miss sometimes if they have no other drawbacks. Why can't we remove only the hax that doesn't improve anything, like how you already removed the universal 255/256 accuracy? More specifically, what's wrong with making hyper beam 100% accurate if we lower its BP to compensate?

Also I take back the 25 BP pin missile suggestion. 20 BP seems more reasonable, so people use it over leech life only if they hate substitutes.
You didn't imply that a haxless mod is what you want. However, the changes that were proposed set that precedent and that's what is more important here. Once I use an argument as generally sweeping as "removing hax that doesn't improve anything" to justify a metagame change, a lot more is fair game to implement as a consequence. This includes critical hits, as I could technically argue to just nerf everything related to critical hits to compensate for the loss of the mechanic and say "see? we don't need critical hits!" But again, it's a convoluted attempt at a solution for a problem that doesn't even practically exist, and all this does is push the meta further from a "buffed gen 1 OU mod" and more into something else.

Besides, you're saying that "miss rates sometimes have purpose and improve the game" but also don't "improve anything". Which point are you arguing? Because as far as metagame exploration has demonstrated, miss rates for the current high reward moves are essential. This is unlike the 1/256 miss rate, which doesn't balance anything and is a truly arbitrary mechanic. I already stated in my previous post that low/medium reward moves are going to get accuracy buffs in the future, so it's not like I'm advocating to keep arbitrary stuff.

In regards to the proposed hyper beam change, I don't see an actual reason except for the sake of it. Hyper beam is not contributing negatively to the metagame, and its high rewards are adequately met with high risks. In fact, none of these high reward moves are having bad effects. There isn't a good enough reason to change these moves' risk-reward ratio, doing so just shifts the metagame without a clear reason behind it and these sorts of changes are to be avoided.
 
Besides, you're saying that "miss rates sometimes have purpose and improve the game" but also don't "improve anything". Which point are you arguing?
I think you're quoting me out of context. I never said anything intended to mean that hax never improves anything. This is the full sentence.
Why can't we remove only the hax that doesn't improve anything, like how you already removed the universal 255/256 accuracy?
ie. I think hax is sometimes bad and can be removed in, and only in, those cases.

Now that you've explained why you're not changing hyper beam, are you going to make hyper fang 100% accurate? Hyper fang is not broken at all in standard RBY, but unlike hyper beam, hyper fang is healthy only because it's completely useless. This mod changed hyper fang in a way that might break it. (it's literally a stronger draco meteor in a format with more mixed attackers and less steel) So why not change it in a way that's less likely to be broken? Is there a clear reason to give it 140 base power instead of 120?
 
I think you're quoting me out of context. I never said anything intended to mean that hax never improves anything. This is the full sentence. ie. I think hax is sometimes bad and can be removed in, and only in, those cases.

Now that you've explained why you're not changing hyper beam, are you going to make hyper fang 100% accurate? Hyper fang is not broken at all in standard RBY, but unlike hyper beam, hyper fang is healthy only because it's completely useless. This mod changed hyper fang in a way that might break it. (it's literally a stronger draco meteor in a format with more mixed attackers and less steel) So why not change it in a way that's less likely to be broken? Is there a clear reason to give it 140 base power instead of 120?
Gen 1 is significantly bulkier on the special side than physical, and the Hyper Fang has drawbacks as harsh as Hyper Beam. It is also only distributed on 3 dragon Pokemon which do not have a way to boost their special, while having no more than 100 base special stats. If it proves to be too strong then it can always be toned down, which requires playtesting. At the moment, the move is sufficiently handled by the metagame's natural bulk and offensive pressure against these 3 dragon types and this can be observed by playing the format.

As for why its base power is what it is, it was a decided starting point for the move after the previous dragon move (Thrash) was originally 110 BP and still very underwhelming in practice. I decided on the BP of Hyper Fang by calcing how adequately the would-be dragon checks (anything with good special really) can take the hit, as well as factoring in things like fishing for a crit Hyper Fang to see what ohko's it can get or be denied of by tweaking BP. I do this for all new moves and balance changes.

As important as theory is, paper also needs practice to back it up. It's easy to sit back and armchair theorycraft but it's also easy to get lost in the sauce when doing so, and then things just end up not being productive. Big changes to any metagame need a lot of testing to see if it's actually needed, and changing the design of influential moves falls under this category.
 
This entire proposal boils down to one topic: the handling of risk-reward.
I don't believe miss chances are a good drawback. It doesn't really make the move choice meaningful in any way. If it's strong i'm gonna use it and hope to have an ideal 100% hit rate. No one who uses an 80%+ accuracy moves plays around the miss because it would be dumb to do so.

I do believe a good way to balance the risk-reward connection would be to play with PPs, something the main series never even dares to do except in rare cares. This mostly comes from the fact that pokemon games are, at their core, made for casual gameplay, which means having low PPs would make backtracking to a pokemon center a tedious and repetitive activity.

But here on the simulator, we can change this. I'm drastically in favor of a general harsh nerfs to PPs. No move should have more than 16, ideally (except terrible ones who don't really matter at all in the grand scheme of things). I shouldn't (and most of the times I don't) choose based on accuracy but on PPs.
What I'm trying to say is, PPs should become the real trade-off between a strong attack (or status move) and a lesser strong one. Not accuracy, since it just encourages coinflips and removes agency from the player. I have no control over whether my move misses or not.
 
I don't believe miss chances are a good drawback. It doesn't really make the move choice meaningful in any way. If it's strong i'm gonna use it and hope to have an ideal 100% hit rate. No one who uses an 80%+ accuracy moves plays around the miss because it would be dumb to do so.

I do believe a good way to balance the risk-reward connection would be to play with PPs, something the main series never even dares to do except in rare cares. This mostly comes from the fact that pokemon games are, at their core, made for casual gameplay, which means having low PPs would make backtracking to a pokemon center a tedious and repetitive activity.

But here on the simulator, we can change this. I'm drastically in favor of a general harsh nerfs to PPs. No move should have more than 16, ideally (except terrible ones who don't really matter at all in the grand scheme of things). I shouldn't (and most of the times I don't) choose based on accuracy but on PPs.
What I'm trying to say is, PPs should become the real trade-off between a strong attack (or status move) and a lesser strong one. Not accuracy, since it just encourages coinflips and removes agency from the player. I have no control over whether my move misses or not.
People definitely do play around the miss when using a move with 80+ accuracy, I don’t get where this idea that people don’t comes from.

Again, it’s not that I’m against the idea itself. However, this changes the flow of gameplay so much in unforeseen ways that this is a pet-mod worthy idea on its own. Changing the damage calculations that pokemon are capable of dealing to each other would basically result in a re-evaluation of all 81 usable Pokemon in this metagame. It’s not that it’s impossible or undesirable, it just results in an extremely different metagame that isn’t within the scope of this mod’s goal. The aim of RRIB is to balance everything to RBY OU levels but if large universal changes like the one proposed are made, then we’re not balancing according to RBY OU but to something else. I think the effects of changing most move BP’s on the meta and how it balances the game is being strongly undervalued.

This is a cool idea that is deserving of a pet mod for itself, but not one that overwrites an existing one. This proposed change could be posted in any pet mod thread for the exact same reasons and be met with the same response, I don’t see why this mod is so special.
 
After observing the metagame being played out a bunch, here are some buffs and a singular nerf! Your playtested inputs, on Smogon or Discord, are really appreciated in making this metagame better with every update. Whether you feel a Pokemon is underwhelming, strong, or just really fun to use, posting about it anywhere is always a big help!
- Razor Leaf, Rock Slide, Crabhammer, Karate Chop, Submission, Pin Missile all have 100 accuracy

Low reward moves got their accuracies buffed. Had to choose between either nerfing Slash's accuracy to not be a blatantly better crit move than the others, or buffing the rest of the crit move accuracy stats. I chose the latter.

- Constrict now has 85 bp, 100% chance to drop speed 1 stage

Tangela needed a buff that made it unique from other grass types outside of typing differences, it was rather lacking compared to them. Buffing Constrict gives Tangela a unique way to guarantee status by slowing opponents down first while chipping them down a bit. Tentacruel, the only other learner of the move, already has decent 4mss but this gives it another dimension in tandem with Swords Dance for sweeping.


Attack 90 -> 100

A small attack buff, but it gives Beedrill a ton of useful ohko's (especially against psychic types) or 2hko's even without a Swords Dance boost.

Speed 80 -> 70

The rare nerf, Butterfree's increased speed made it harder to break past without getting debilitated. Reverting its speed to its original RBY stat makes it a bit more honest and easier to break down with offensive pressure, but it's still a really strong pick in the meta.

Attack 83 -> 93

A small attack buff gives Electabuzz much more favourable odds in 1v1'ing rock types, even nailing ohko's with a crit Submission vs the likes of GolDon.


Gains Hyper Beam

Every other fighting type gets a sick finishing move, and so should the slightly underwhelming Hitmonchan duo. Now Hitmonchan can finish off Psychic types without exploitable secondary through nuking them.

Special 85 -> 95
Speed 93 -> 103

Magmar was really lacking compared to most other fire types or fighting types. Having a unique 100+ speed stat gives it a much stronger reason to be used. Matching its special stat to its attack stat also helps with many damage calculations, such as guaranteeing a KO vs Chansey with Fire Blast -> Submission.

Special 90 -> 100

This mon still has potential, high crit-rate Fire Blasts into the fastest partial trapping user in RRIB is a lethal combination especially when you're a fire type that's faster than Starmie. Adding some more special gives it more oomph to its STAB, notably having a good chance to 2hko with Fire Blast vs Tauros.

Special 80 -> 90
Speed 68 -> 78

Now that Seaking's special stat is high enough to have justifiable damage output over its attack stat in some matchups, it can break walls better alongside its higher Speed to outpace a lot of threats (notably the newly nerfed Butterfree).

Overall, the metagame is shaping up really nicely. You can pretty much build around anything as a centerpiece and end up with a solid team, and teambuilding itself is pretty intuitive with type synergy and speed tier spreading. These changes will be live and playable immediately, including for the $50 prize tournament which you can sign up for here!

Wanna join in on the RBY revolution? Join our discord to get in on the action if you haven't already! We're looking to start working on viability rankings soon, all we need is for you to pull up with your favourites and beat stuff up.
 
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- Constrict now has 85 bp, 100% chance to drop speed 1 stage

Tangela needed a buff that made it unique from other grass types outside of typing differences, it was rather lacking compared to them. Buffing Constrict gives Tangela a unique way to guarantee status by slowing opponents down first while chipping them down a bit. Tentacruel, the only other learner of the move, already has decent 4mss but this gives it another dimension in tandem with Swords Dance for sweeping.[/hide]
I think it would be better if you let Tangela learn amnesia. Amnesia Tangela has already been shown to work in tradebacks.
 
Today is the last day to sign up for the $50 prize tournament which you can sign up for here! Don't miss your chance for this lit opportunity.

Small addition to the meta, ember has been buffed to a 100% burn rate! Essentially, burn spread is now more efficient at the cost of a moveslot and significant amounts of base power when compared to other fire moves. No Pokemon had their access to the move removed, and Weezing gains access to the attack now. Really looking forward to how the metagame shapes out starting tomorrow!
 
Been a long time, but me and Petuuuhhh are working on a new gen 1 mod called Kantonification. All pokemon from every generation ever will be playable in the gen 1 format. The biggest changes include:

- Movepools will be dumbed down to moves that exist in gen 1
- Fairy and Dark types are converted to Normal
- Steel type is converted to Rock
- Special is universally calculated by averaging special attack and special defense

You can find all the newly calculated stats along with some WIP sample sets in this spreadsheet here.
The metagame is playable at rby809.herokuapp.com

If you're interested, give it a look! Your favourites are potentially a lot more viable here.
 
Been a long time, but me and Petuuuhhh are working on a new gen 1 mod called Kantonification. All pokemon from every generation ever will be playable in the gen 1 format. The biggest changes include:

- Movepools will be dumbed down to moves that exist in gen 1
- Fairy and Dark types are converted to Normal
- Steel type is converted to Rock
- Special is universally calculated by averaging special attack and special defense

You can find all the newly calculated stats along with some WIP sample sets in this spreadsheet here.
The metagame is playable at rby809.herokuapp.com

If you're interested, give it a look! Your favourites are potentially a lot more viable here.
type changes and learnsets!
 

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I'm back!
After a long hiatus from competitive Pokemon as a whole, I am proud to say that I am back in action and intend to keep up the development of this beloved pet mod! Rose Red / Iris Blue is going to be playable on Dragon Heaven now, and I have adjusted the custom client to work on DH and visualize the metagame for your enjoyment and convenience. With that being said, I have some plans on how to continue improving this game even further.

1) Bi-weekly slates where we work as a community to introduce future-generation Pokemon into Rose Red / Iris Blue
2) Frequent re-evaluations of Pokemon viability alongside potential buffs and/or nerfs

I know I burned out from the last tournament, but I will look into server-side Showdown tournaments where the entire bracket happens in one sitting. Hopefully we can get a leaderboard started to keep you all engaged ;) Slates will start next week, so feel free to get accustomed to the metagame in the meantime! You can find all the resources in the OP.

The DH implementation of Rose Red / Iris Blue is very new and required some code restructuring, so please bear with me if there are any bugs or (heaven forbid) crashes while playing matches. Happy battling, and I hope you will continue your adventure in the world of revamped Kanto!
 
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You know what? I got impatient and want to get this started now. The new slate for introducing future Pokemon into Gen 1 will begin immediately! If you would like to participate in the creation of process of this slate, be sure to follow the examples in this post. I'm looking forward to seeing all of your ideas! Now without further ado, the very first slate of Pokemon will be...

Zangoose and Seviper! This iconic duo rarely ever receives the love it deserves, and both of them have some very interesting qualities that could make quite the splash in RRIB! Remember to check the OP and its supporting posts for all the resources you may need. I'm planning to have discussion for this slate be done by June 21st, 11:59 pm EST. I hope to see you all contribute!
Blizzard
Body Slam
Counter
Defense Curl
Dig
Disable
Double-Edge
Double Kick
Double Team
Fire Blast
Fire Punch
Flamethrower
Fury Swipes
Headbutt
Ice Beam
Ice Punch
Leer
Low Kick
Mega Kick
Mega Punch
Mimic
Quick Attack
Razor Wind
Rest
Roar
Rock Slide
Scratch
Seismic Toss
Slash
Solar Beam
Strength
Substitute
Swift
Swords Dance
Thunder
Thunderbolt
Thunder Punch
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Bind
Bite
Body Slam
Dig
Double-Edge
Double Team
Earthquake
Flamethrower
Glare
Haze
Headbutt
Lick
Mimic
Rest
Screech
Strength
Substitute
Swift
Swords Dance
Toxic
Wrap
 
Zangoose
Type: Normal/Fighting
Stats: 73/115/60/60/95
New Moves: Karate Chop

What we have here is another competitor with Tauros and Persian. Zangoose stands out with a significant attack stat while still having enough speed. It's 115/95 offenses compare well to Persian's 70/115 and Tauros' 100/110 - it's the strongest of the three but also the slowest. I gave it the Fighting-type to give it a way of breaking through Rock-types without needing special, to further separate it from Tauros/Persian, and it ends up playing like a stronger, but frailer, Kangaskhan.

Seviper
Type: Poison/Psychic
Stats: 73/100/60/100/70
New Moves: Psychic, Poison Sting, Amnesia

My primary goal was to make it distinct enough from Arbok, and I think I did that. It's a mixed attacker, and functions like a mix of Arbok and Tentacruel due to the high special. It has a few options here: it can go Swords Dance for physical sets (with Poison Sting and Earthquake as coverage and perhaps Body Slam), or it can go the Amnesia route (Psychic and Flamethrower, and maybe Rest). Wrap sets are better left to Arbok due to its speed.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Spr 3r 336.png

Seviper
Type:
/

Stats: 73 / 100 / 70 / 89 / 67 (399 BST)
New Moves: Constrict, Poison Sting, Slash
Removed Moves: Wrap
Sample Set:
Seviper
- Bind
- Glare / Swords Dance
- Poison Sting
- Body Slam / Constrict / Earthquake
Overview: Seviper claims its niche as the only Pokemon with STAB Bind along with Glare. Compared to Arbok it's slower and misses out on some big moves like Hyper Beam, Mega Drain, Acid and the more accurate Wrap. That said it's also all-around bulkier (especially Special-wise) and has its own cool moves like Swords Dance, Constrict, Slash and Flamethrower.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One for All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
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Seviper
Type
: Poison/Dragon
Stats: 73/100/55/100/65
New Moves: Hyper Fang, Poison Sting, Amnesia

Seviper's claim to fame is the only boosting Dragon type in the meta. Hyper Fang + Amnesia allows it to beat traditional Poison checks like Rhydon. It still struggles with slow speed and its physical bulk is mediocre, but Seviper can put in the work when it needs to.

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Zangoose
Type
: Normal/Ice
Stats: 73/105/55/75/85
New Moves: Agility

I decided to go for a different approach to Zangoose - make it be the anti meta Normal type it was meant to be with access to a very strong STAB Blizzard, which it uses to pummel Golem and Rhydon. It can also pull off Agility to give headaches with Slash and a very high crit ratio.
 
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Pokemon:
Zangoose
Typing: Normal

Stats (HP/Atk/Def/Spc/Spe): 70/102/45/70/111
New Moves: Amnesia
Removed Moves: None

Explanation: It's the cat ferret pokemon so uhh fuck it let me rip off Persian and then make it outright better than it. Giving it amnesia will turn this thing into something to be feared, because everyone knows to fear amnesia in gen one especially with that blizzbolt combo Zangoose has. Odds are this will turn into another staple normal type. The main downside is that it can't take a physical hit to save its life so be aware of that.

Zangoose
- Slash
- Amnesia
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt.
 

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