[Gen 4] Something new (for me)

[AntiMetaGame]

Hi Smogon. You may or may not know me, I'm just another player like you guys, without those good RNG or moveset skills. My play style is bulky-offense and every team I make happens to accidently be one with the same FWG core. This would be my last RMT, but I decided that I'll stick around 4th gen for a while, as 5th gen is getting here in the spring. I originally had a sandstorm team planned, which also goes well with the current 5th gen. However, I like rain better, so I decided to try a new bulky offense team. Its something new (for me) because I decided to use Pokes I've either never used or Pokes that I used because I liked them - both in the past and now. Anyway, if you know my teams from the past, this time I CAN use Rotom forms. Also, Please read everything or as much as possible, you never know when you might stumble upon information you'll find useful. Now without further ado, here's my team: Something New.

Something New

Alright, if you've seen my previous team, you'll know I love Agiligross, the most deadly sweeper in OU to me. My last team turned him into a supporter over an attacker though, so this time, I want him to be my main sweeper.

Now this is something new for me: most teams I come across have 2 sweepers. Now they cover each other's counters, or can clear the path for each other. DDttar is there to finish or clear the way for gross.

Now my 2 sweepers share common counters to stop them. A few of them are my usual team problems - Rotom, Skarm, hippo, and pert. The last 2 die to WTFBOOM though. I didn't have a solid way of getting Rotom, the most common counter, so I just decided something else new: Sub Machamp

Alright, now I'm still confused about what to do. My main playstyle bulky offense is almost non existent now, but I still need to take care of earthquake. Gliscor came to mind

Now I'm kind of surf weak, but I never fixed that. I decided to put some custom spreads on for the 'new' thing, so I gave Machamp some okay special bulk. It wasn't the brightest of ideas, but hey, I'm new to something non bulky offense. Moving on, I needed rocks and a lead. Great thanks to Faladran (formerly Jirachi) for 2 custom sets. My pairing of CB Azelf and Heatran

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More in Depth

Changes in ORANGE

Azelf (DualBlade)
Jolly
Levitate
Choice Band
144 Att / 252 Spe / 112 SpD
- Zen Headbutt
- Explosion
- U-turn
- Ice Punch
Probably my favorite lead ever. Great thanks to Faladran (formely Jirachi) for this custom set. The EVs allow me to survive one LO Hydro Pump for lead Starmie and have a good chance to KO with U-turn in return. The main reason why I use this badass is because he's a mix of leads - more powerful than Machamp, faster than Gliscor, and cuter than Jirachi. Here's a small list of how he does against other leads.
Wins in Gray, loses in Blue, ties in black
Machamp - Zen Headbutt 1HKOs and you can somehow hear the other guy raging.
Hippodown - Explosion 1HKOs
Swampert- Explosion 1HKOs
Heatran - Explosion 1HKOs
Gliscor - Ice Punch 1HKOS.
Dragonite - Explosion 1HKOs
Azelf - I pray that the speed tie allows both of us to get rocks up. Either that, or I 1HKO with U-turn (if the opposing Azelf is LO) or bring him down to the sash.
Jirachi - Tricky... I lack a scarfer. If he Iron Heads, I go to tran, if he tricks, I've got a scarfed Azelf
Aerodactyl - I get taunted, and he gets his rockswhile I U-turn
Weavile - U-turn after Fake Out (because they always assume I have a sash) and go to Machamp
Bronzong - U-turn to Gliscor
Roserade - U-turn to Gliscor though he gets something asleep.
Metagross - u-turn and go to tran. They generally Meteor Mash so I can easily scare them away.
Smeargle - U-turn and go to Gliscor to take sleep
Changes I'm thinking of: I'm thinking of putting on SR in place of Ice Punch to bluff a sash and make Heatran my scarf user.

Heatran (SunRock)
Mild
Flash Fire
Shuca Berry
36 HP /252 SpA / 220
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
Another one of Faladran's custom sets, though I don't know its EV purpose. Either way, most people assume scarf, so I put rocks up. If they go to nite or Gyara, I generally WILL explode just to be safe. I also can check Rotom in an okay fashion.
Changes I'm thinking of: I might make make him scared, or something else. I'm not sure, I'm a subtran person.

Tyranitar (Tamat)
Jolly
Sand Stream
Life Orb
252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
I had no idea how fast DDttar was. With one dance, he outspeeds all postive natured base 115s with no scarfs. He also have a shit load of attack to back it up. I opted for the above moves because I have Heatran and Gliscor to cover Scizor. He's there to either start a sweep early game to clear a way for gross, or finish up what gross couldn't. Good defenses and all allow him to easily set up in many situations
Changes I'm thinking of: Its been a long time since I used DDttar. I used to use Babiri Berry for Scizor, but I've no problem with Scizor. I can't think of any potential changes, any suggestions are welcome.

Metagross (Maxed Out)
Jolly
Clear Body
Life Orb
60 HP / 252 Att / 196 Spe
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion
My other sweeper working together with Tyranitar. If you thought Ttar was fast, Metagross is even faster. 1 Agility allows him to outspeed all the way past base 100s with a choice scarf. In other words - Scarf Flygon can no longer threaten me and everything else unscarfed gets smacked in the face. I decided to use Explosion in the situation where I had to use Metagross before Ttar and explode on any pesky wall.
Changes I'm thinking of: I loved Agiligross on my last team, and the Trick + Iron Ball idea was great too. I can't think of anything, all suggestions welcome.

Vaporeon (Sapphire)
Bold
Water Absorb
Leftovers
188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpD
- Wish
- Protect
- Surf
- Hidden Power Electric
Since I was weak to water attacks, and lacked a bulky water, I decided on Vaporeon over Suicune. I couldn't really decide though, but wish support is pretty invaluable to this team.

Dragonite (TheFirst)
Dragonite @ Life Orb
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 116 Atk / 192 SAtk / 196 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost
General stall breaking mixnite. I'm not sure whether to keep Fire Blast and switch it with Tbolt because of Heatran, but hey, I like FB to hit those grass types on the switch.

Former Members

Gliscor (Windy Day)
Impish
Sand Veil
Leftovers
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Roost
- Earthquake
My custom spread (unless you count Machamp lol). With the given EVs, he can outspeed Adamant SD Luc and KO back with EQ. To be honest, using Gliscor is a double edged sword - he tanks okay, but can't do too much to what he's tanking. Standard movesets and all.
Changes I'm thinking of: I'm not sure what to do here. He's my only Gyara check, but he's a "bluffing" check as he has no Stone Edge. I haven't used Gliscor in a while and am open to suggestions.

Adamant
No Guard
Leftovers
128 HP /252 Att / 128 SpD
- Substitute
- Dynamicpunch
- Payback
- Stone Edge
My pseudo-special wall that sucks. I don't feel the need to use speed EVs to outspeed skarm for 3 reasons - most of them run EVs to already outspeed Machamp, I have Heatran, and Machamp is already way too slow. Basically, I took all speed EVs and put them in SpD Generally, I'll send him in on a special attacker or tanks to scare them away. The EVs aren't too bad, he takes 20-40% on average, and sometimes he takes JUST enough, like 23-24%. But regardless, its hard to keep him alive as he is my main Rotom counter.
Changes I'm thinking of: Since I don't have a status absorber, I'm thinking of making him a Guts Sleep Talker with CC instead of Dynamicpunch for the random mindfuck. It also might make Rotom a bit more bearable.


Weaknesses
Lack of scarf user
Kingdra - After a dance, I HAVE to force him to use Outrage. If there's no Outrage, I'm screwed. I generally bait with Machamp then switch to Heatran until the confusion kicks in
Gyarados - No real solid counter. I could go to Gliscor to scare away, but that generally never happens. Machamp can take a +1 and KO back with Stone Edge, but gets maimed in the process and lowers my chance of countering Rotom. SOLVED
LO Starmie - One of my lesser problems, gross comes in on an Ice Beam and uses Agility.
Rotom - I always have a problem with this guy. Machamp and Hetran are there, but sometimes I need to make it situational.
Surf - Lol this might as well be a Sandstorm team that doesn't abuse sandstorm, I've nothing really for this. SOLVED

Conclusion
If you've seen my other teams, you'll see that they all are bulky offense. I have trouble playing any other playstyle, and if you noticed, this team is kind of flimsy in terms of defense. To add on to the 'new' theme I tried new Pokes/movesets/EVs, and it kind of worked out for me. Anything you can offer as advice would be appreciated. If you suggest changing more than one Poke, feel free. Thank you for reading.

Once Last Look

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[Windsong]

Currently your team has a ton of trouble with one of the dominant offensive (and defensive) types in OU -- Water. You have nothing to take random surfs, offensive CM Suicune, DDGyara, and DDKingdra kill you if champ is even slightly weakened.

Continuing, it seems like Machamp is the most replacable member of your team, only checking TTar and providing you with a Pokemon to lure Outrage, so why not put Vaporeon onto the team instead? With Surf/HP [Electric]/Wish/Protect you give your team the really beneficial Wish support, have something to take surfs, and counter Gyarados. It doesn't really solve your Suicune issues, but it patches up a fair amount of holes in the team.

Good luck teambuilding!

 

[Musica]

Seems like Suicune checks half of your team. You need something to absorb water attacks like Vaporeon or even a Suicune and and since you have Gliscor, you can just switch in to an HP Electric if it has one.

 

[ToastTyrant13]

Like the others said, your a bit water weak. Along with that, you have a glaring weakness to ground. Tyranitar and Heatran are the ones who have both. I would suggest that you possibly replace heatran, preferrably with a Special sweeper.

Perhaps Latias? She resists your weaknesses to Fighting and Fire, while being immune to ground.

Latias @ Life Orb
Timid-4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Trick
-Surf
-Flamethrower
-Thunder Bolt

Use Trick to hamper your opponents walls or physical sweepers useless, or keep your Specs to deal huge ammounts of damage. Surf, Flamethrower and Thunderbolt provide you with amazing coverage. She wrecks things that mess with your team like Doryuuzu, Breloom, Heatran, Hippowdon, Roobushin, Tentacruel, Vaporeon, Forretres, Nattorei, and many more.

 

[BKC]

Perhaps Latias? She resists your weaknesses to Fighting and Fire, while being immune to ground.

Latias @ Life Orb
Timid-4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Trick
-Surf
-Flamethrower
-Thunder Bolt

Use Trick to hamper your opponents walls or physical sweepers useless, or keep your Specs to deal huge ammounts of damage. Surf, Flamethrower and Thunderbolt provide you with amazing coverage. She wrecks things that mess with your team like Doryuuzu, Breloom, Heatran, Hippowdon, Roobushin, Tentacruel, Vaporeon, Forretres, Nattorei, and many more.

This is gen 4, didn't you get that from the title? lol
---
Hello, this seems like a good team, although I have a couple fixes I'd like to suggest.

Machamp seems like it was randomly thrown on the team. You also lack a bulky water, which is pretty much a necessity in today's metagame to deal with the ever-common Heatran. Gyarados also gives you trouble, being able to muscle its way past most of your team after a DD. Offensive Suicune would provide you with a bulky water and a check to Gyara, as well as another efficient sweeper to overcome the opponent. The set is:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Electric

Gliscor also seems kind of out of place. You mentioned you needed an Earthquake immunity, so I think a Mixed Dragonite would do well, providing that immunity to EQ and making facing stall that much easier.

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 116 Atk / 192 SAtk / 196 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost

This set dishes out alot of damage and can heal easily against stall, while they struggle to even damage it. It also has 8 more EVs than the standard Nite, so that could help you out if the game comes down to a Dragonite vs. Dragonite speed tie.

Just two nitpicks, why use Stealth Rock on CB Azelf? One, it's choiced, two, you have SR on Tran. I'd go with either Ice Punch for Gliscor/Dragonite leads or Trick (my favorite) to mess up Heatran leads while also messing up stall midgame (leading off with Trick as soon as you see a Hippowdon isn't the greatest idea as they will often switch to their ScarfTar, which you can U-turn out on, and use Trick to cripple a wall later). Also, I would recommend Lum Berry over Life Orb and Aqua Tail over Earthquake on your Ttar. You said you have somewhat of a problem with Rotom; with Lum, you turn it into setup fodder for a DD, after which a Crunch will easily kill. Also, Aqua Tail smashes Gliscor, who thinks it's a good idea to switch into Tar, as well as still KOing Heatran. It also fucks up Hippowdon if it's been weakened a bit.

Just some stuff to consider. Good luck with your team!

 

[ToastTyrant13]

OMG, sorry! I've been getting used to 5th Gen.

 

[AntiMetaGame]

Just two nitpicks, why use Stealth Rock on CB Azelf?

Whoa, my bad, its supposed to be Ice Punch. I was tired last night when I posted this, but Ice Punch is in the part where he wins and loses.

 

[Smith]

Hey I got your message! Thankfully your absolute and total weakness to water types has been plugged, so that isn't quite as pressing. That's the thing about "sandstorm teams", just having a team of rock, ground and steel types will absolutely NEVER work, and I urge to tell everybody that "sandstorm team" is not a type of team. Not only is there major problems with defensive synergy, sandstorm isn't exactly a huge field effect that really does much of anything. I blame the guide on site, and really think it ought to be taken down.

But I digress. Anyways there are a couple problems I see. First would be stat-up sweepers, as you have noted that you lack a scarfer. The most common ones (Dragonite, Gyarados and Tyranitar) can set-up on most anything and can procede to really fuck you up, depending on the set. Gyarados is less pressing due to Vaporeon, but depending on the circumstances can be quite annoying. Another problem I see is that offensive electric types (or Pokemon that use electric attacks) are very annoying, as htings like Jolteon, Raikou, Zapdos or even Starmie can really mess you up with their coverage on your team with only electric. At the present a simple Specs Jolteon can 6-0 you with thunderbolt with very little prior support.

So the first thing that I would think of to use would be a Scarf Flygon, who solves a lot of your problems, but the more pressing issue is where to put it. Over Dragonite would seem the obvious choice, but this means that stall teams irrevocably ruin you. I'd actually think that replacing Heatran would be most advantageous, since he really only causes synergy problems and because Azelf can easily accommodate stealth rock. So over Heatran, try this:

@ Choice Scarf
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-U turn
-Thunderpunch

As noted, this solves your weakness to set-up swepers, gives you the scarfer you were hoping for, gives you a thunderbolt (and thunder wave) immunity and can revenge most of your "less notable" threats (Kingdra, Starmie, and Rotom). Really fits like a glove on this team.

Of course, this prompts Azelf to change it's set to something that could use Stealth Rock. Try running this:

@ Colbur Berry
8 HP / 140 Atk / 144 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly
-Stealth Rock
-U turn
-Explosion
-Taunt

The standard Colbur Azelf still functions wonderfully, although you can change it around to fit your needs- I've seen people run standard old focus sash with the same spread anyway, so whatever floats your boat.

That's all I got, I hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[Aerrow]

Set-up sweepers like Infernape and Dragonite seem to be gigantic problems for your team as after the aforementioned set up a swords dance/nasty plot or dragon dance, your team doesn't not have a Pokemon which can effectively revenge kill it. Along with set-up sweepers, Pokemon like LO offensive Zapdos can also cause huge problems as with nothing more than HP Ice, Heat Wave and Thunderbolt, LO Zapdos can straight out sweep through your team with a minimal amount of support, as most of your Pokemon are either OHKOed or 2HKOed by offensive Zapdos. Lastly, I think that Pokemon including substitute Heatran and offensive CM Suicune could also be called as noteworthy threats to this team for reasons previously mentioned.

I agree on Smith's suggestion of replacing Heatran with a choice scarf Flygon as it really seems to fit into this team, giving it a much needed revenge killer while also helping improve the core. Although I would recommend using thunderpunch on any Flygon on a team weak to dragon dance Gyarados, I think that stone edge would be the better option on this specific team as it will help Flygon deal with both Dragonite and Zapdos without having to lock itself into outrage. Also, like Smith, I'm going to suggest a colbur berry Azelf instead of your own as with Heatran being replace by Flygon, you need a stealth rock user; however, I want to emphasize the need of a colbur berry on Azelf as it helps your team take care of Machamp, which would otherwise prove to be quite problematic. Lastly, I'm going to suggest you use a bairi berry on Tyranitar as with Heatran gone, swords dance variants of Scizor will start to get difficult to handle. I hope this has helped. Good Luck.

Suggested Changes in Short

• Choice Scarf Flygon Over Support Heatran
• Colbur Berry Azelf (emphasis on Colbur Berry) over CB Azelf
• Babiri Berry on Tyranitar

 

[Faladran]

You sure give me a lot of undeserved credit, lol (I only thought up Azelf's EVs, and I wasn't the first). I'd prefer that you keep your current lead duo, as CB Azelf + ShucaTran still perform really well together, and without Heatran you'll have significant CB Scizor and Shaymin problems. If Roserade / Smeargle leads are annoying, you could use Lum Metagross: U-turn out with Azelf to break the sash and finish them off with Bullet Punch, using the Lum Berry to take the sleep. Either way, Heatran should be kept.

DD ShucaTar would be well worth trying. Anyone with a Scarf Flygon is prepared for a standard Tyranitar, but just add Ice Punch > Crunch and a Shuca Berry, and you'll have a potent and much more unexpected sweeper. This moveset provides you with the most useful type coverage, and the surprise factor of a Shuca Berry will allow you to survive Flygon's Earthquake and OHKO back with Ice Punch, or even nab an extra DD in some cases.

Stat-up sweepers like Dragonite or opposing Tyranitar are problematic. Scarf Flygon would definitely help to fix up these weaknesses, but I would add it in over your own Dragonite. This results in the fewest changes to team synergy, but it opens up more of a stall weakness. For this reason, I would recommend replacing Vaporeon with a SubCM Suicune, using an EV spread of 252 HP / 32 SAtk / 224 Spd and a moveset of Substitute / Calm Mind / Surf / Hidden Power Electric. 224 Speed EVs outspeed Jolly Gyarados before a Dragon Dance, and Suicune has more than enough bulk to check or even counter Gyarados. Having max health is crucial to ensure you have 404 HP, which prevents Blissey from breaking your subs with Seismic Toss. Stall should have a hard time dealing with Suicune if you use it effectively, especially since common stall teams (KG Stall, Earthworm Stall) often depend on Blissey to stop Offensive Suicune and on RestTalk Gyarados to phaze away Crocune. SubCM Cune sets up on Blissey (Pressure is also useful in this regard), and hits Gyarados with HP Electric. Wish is useful, but I would much rather have a useful weapon to combat stall teams.