Other Gen 6 NeverUsed Speculation

[Mr. Degradation]

5th Gen NU had great discussion threads on a pretty consistent basis. I'm sure this thread won't go to hell too quickly. Don't damn it before we can even get a good discussion going.

We have over 700 Pokemon now; RU and NU are almost guaranteed tiers at this point. Most of the Pokemon that were NU last Gen haven't really changed enough to warrant them leaving the tier, either, so it doesn't make speculation on future trends that difficult. Until someone higher up on the chain of command deems this thread unnecessary, let's actually talk about the potential of Gen VI NU.

You can't build a metagame on that kind of foregone conclusion- The game has changed, and thus everything inside of the game is either directly or indirectly effected by that. If we were working off of the previous generation to assume the shape of the new meta, we'd still be on check for Salamence as an uber. While it isn't likely that Raticate, Beedrill, Dunsparce or Furret are going to become OU painhouses- without any sort of solved meta at the higher tiers, it's unclear if there is a role for them in UU meta, or not.

Right now, there isn't even comprehensive shape for the standard metagame- let alone a metagame that requires 3 other tiers to reach a solved status.

 

[pretzschy]

question. what exactly happened to prankster to nail riolu and liepard in the head?
As for furfrou, I've played tested this thing. It is a tank. It will not be in NU, maybe RU. If it does hit the depths of NU, I've found my new metagame.

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

question. what exactly happened to prankster to nail riolu and liepard in the head?
As for furfrou, I've played tested this thing. It is a tank. It will not be in NU, maybe RU. If it does hit the depths of NU, I've found my new metagame.

Copycat and assist cannot select Phazing moves.

 

[pretzschy]

gotcha. thanks for that tidbit of information.

 

[GDK]

Brb making a thread on RU and PU.

 

[Sheriff_K]

Aromataisse: ...and no known forms of recovery.

Doesn't it get Wish as an Egg Move?

 

[Azure30]

There's just no way Vivillon will be NU with the tools its got going for it. Sleeppowder gives it the fastest accurate sleep outside of ubers, gives it the space it needs to quiver dance. STAB Bug Buzz goes through subs, and STAB accurate Hurricane with no need for rain support doesn't exactly tickle either.

 

[pretzschy]

Doesn't it get Wish as an Egg Move?

That it does Sheriff. The thing is though, even with is decent bulk (I won't call 101/72/89 bad but it isn't that great) it's speed still hinders it. granted if it can run an okay toxic stall set with wish/toxic/protect/??? it may be a decent wall in NU. I don't see it doing much for the tier though.

 

[A.K. Swashbuckler]

Aromataisse: Being part of the new, vast Fairy crew, there has to be one or two at the bottom of the barrel. Aromataisse, apart from having a hideous, nightmare-inducing design, also has somewhat hideous viability. Two abilities with no use in singles, a Base 28 Speed stat which means a Graveler could outspeed it, and no known forms of recovery. It has rather decent defensive stats: 101/72/89 isn't the worst. Its main viable set is Calm Mind and three attacks: MoonBlast, Thunderbolt and Psychic are the best options and off a Base 99 Special Attack they can hurt in NU. However it can be outsped by basically anything and many things can monopolise on its lower Defense. Switching in safely may be an issue, but with careful prediction the perfume anteater can be beaten.

First off, Aromatisse is the most adorable pokemon ever. Secondly, Aroma Veil definitely works in singles and makes you immune to taunt. Aromatisse is also to my knowledge the only Trick Room setter that resists Dark. I don't see it going any higher than bad RU but it has a niche.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I actually think Aromatisse has a lot of potential in NU. It looks pretty solid defensively; 101/72/89 defenses aren't the best in the world, but with defensive investment, they're really quite good. Heck, Skarmory gets away with running specially defensive sets even with 65/70 special bulk because of its great defensive typing. Likewise, Aromatisse's pure Fairy typing is pretty nice. It's weak to Steel and Poison (no telling just yet how common those will become), but it does have great resistances to Dark, Fighting, and Bug moves, as well as a Dragon immunity. Being able to pass 203 HP Wishes and heal its teammates with Aromatherapy gives it a lot of support utility as well. Aroma Veil is also a really cool ability since it prevents Aromatisse from being Taunted, which is a real boon for a defensive Pokemon. It isn't half bad on the offense, either. Base 99 SpA is more than usable, and it happens to have Moonblast, the best special Fairy move it could possibly want. It also has a pretty colorful special movepool with coverage options like Thunderbolt, Psychic, and Energy Ball, so a Calm Mind set seems feasible. In fact, the only Pokemon in 5th Gen NU that would have resisted the Fairy + Electric combo are Camerupt and Grass/Poison-types like Roselia and Vileplume, and the latter can be handled by Psychic.

I'm actually pretty interested in seeing how Aromatisse's counterpart, Slurpuff, will play out. Defensive sets are probably going to be outclassed by Aromatisse. While Slurpuff has a bit more physical bulk, it has considerably less special bulk and a lot less HP for Wish passing. Offensive sets might show some promise, though. Base 85 SpA is a good bit lower than base 99, but Slurpuff does have a few move options that Aromatisse does not, namely Flamethrower and Surf. Its base 72 Spe stat isn't great by any means, but it will at least let Slurpuff beat many slower and bulkier Pokemon. Sweet Veil also helps it switch in and set up a little more easily since it doesn't have to worry about sleep moves. I'm also interested to try out Unburden. While it may not work as well on a special set, Belly Drum Slurfpuff with a Sitrus Berry and Unburden might have some potential. Even with just 80 base Atk, a +6 Adamant Slurpuff's Play Rough is doing 72.47 - 85.39% to 252/252+ Alomomola. The biggest problem with such a set is its physical movepool; it doesn't really have one. All Slurpuff has on the physical side is Play Rough and Return. It's still enough to hit pretty much every non-Steel Pokemon neutrally, but you'll have to remove those pesky Steels before sweeping. As for speed, base 72 is a pretty cool place to be at. After Unburden has activated, Adamant Slurpuff will have enough speed to beat even Scarf base 95s such as Jynx and Primeape. Jolly nature sacrifices some power, but it also lets you outspeed even a Jolly Scarf Tauros, which is just about the fastest Scarf user in NU.

 

[Martingale]

I've done some much-needed tidying of the first post because Aromataisse isn't quite as bad as it first seemed (please note this was before Wish was noted as an egg move!), and also I've added a quick analysis on Meowstic. Also a few slight changes here and there.

 

[rewindsync]

will swalot see any more use, because it is a decent check/wall for quite a few common pokemon as I've learnt.

 

[thedeafelectrician]

PU is an official thing already.

I won't be suprised if 700 mons means it becomes official, but thats just hand waving.

Really my main concern for NU is Swanna getting taken from us because of hypefog. And as far as megas;

1. Hasn't it been confirmed stones will be banned/tiered? So we wont be losing normals.

2. I'm really hoping at least one mega makes it down, probably aggron or heracross

Based on the way the gengar thing is playing out, they are going to be banning the stones themselves from certain tiers while leaving the pokemon in whatever tier they were in without the stone. So basically soul dew on a much wider scale. Therefore, as of right now, it's safe to assume things like pinsir and kangahskan will still be NU.

It's really unlikely any megas will make it to NU, their BSTs are way too high for the tier. And mega heracross can't exactly be UU if normal heracross was a top 5 UU pokemon.

 

[tennisace]

Therefore, as of right now, it's safe to assume things like pinsir and kangahskan will still be NU.

Wrong, usage stats are only concerned with the base form, since you need to have the base form on your team to battle with it. They probably won't be NU unless their Mega item gets banned from a higher tier and then they drop in usage.

 

[PK Gaming]

It's pretty much impossible to speculate on what will be NU without information on UU and RU. That said, given the ever growing number of Pokemon and the finite amount of tiers, NU will have like 300+ usable Pokemon, so it should be pretty interesting.

 

[Mattiator]

How about some new NFEs from Gen 6? With all the Talonflame hype, Eviolite Fletchinder might carve out a niche for itself, although like it's bigger evo that 4x SR weakness is a clincher.

There's also stuff like Doublade, which with Eviolite might make a tough little wall.

 

[Martingale]

How about some new NFEs from Gen 6? With all the Talonflame hype, Eviolite Fletchinder might carve out a niche for itself, although like it's bigger evo that 4x SR weakness is a clincher.

There's also stuff like Doublade, which with Eviolite might make a tough little wall.

Yes, NFEs carrying Eviolite have a niche of their own. I don't think Fletchinder should run Eviolite however, running Band instead (it barely does less damage than Talonflame itself. Also, Eviolite Quilladin is a very nice looking bulky grass, with Spikes, recovery in Synthesis, and reasonable enough damage output.

 

[Molk]

How about some new NFEs from Gen 6? With all the Talonflame hype, Eviolite Fletchinder might carve out a niche for itself, although like it's bigger evo that 4x SR weakness is a clincher.

There's also stuff like Doublade, which with Eviolite might make a tough little wall.

Sad to say that Fletchinder doesn't learn either of Brave Bird or Flare Blitz, only Talonflame can learn either of them as far as we know, so i honestly don't see Fletchinder performing too well, even in NU :x, especially since the lack of Flying Gems makes Acrobatics hard to use as well.

I am pretty interested in what NFEs might end up being interesting in NU though, looking at the list of x/y NFEs, there's at least one non Doublade (expecting this to end up somewhere over NU) NFE that i could see working out in x/y NU, and thats Quilladin.

Quilladin - Grass | Overgrow/Bulletproof (H) | 61/78/95/56/58/57 | 405 BST | NFE | Low Kick/Grass Knot: 60 BP

Quilladin sports very, very solid physical bulk when equipped with Eviolite, (pure hit taking ability is about on par with Tangrowth, although growth still takes hits better in the long run thanks to Leftovers and Regenerator), which will let it stand up to many of NU's potential physical threats, and also has access to a solid support movepool, which includes things such as phazing (Roar), entry hazards (Spikes), reliable recovery (Synthesis and to an extent Leech Seed), and Taunt, although its a bit slow for the latter imo. This ensures that Quilladin doesn't just uselessly sit around and sponge hits, and can support its team effectively by setting up Spikes, phazing out dangerous set up Pokemon, dealing chip damage with Leech Seed and stopping slower opponents from using support moves with Taunt, all while keeping itself as healthy as possible with Synthesis and/or Leech Seed recovery. Aside from sheer defensive and support capabilities, Quilladin's Attack stat is usable by NU standards, so it could at least do some damage to frailer opponents with a STAB Seed Bomb or maybe Wood Hammer if need be, although it probably wouldn't be strong enough to break through bulkier opponents. Aside from all of this, Bulletproof is an interesting ability, and makes Quilladin completely immune to certain attacks such as Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Sludge Bomb, and Aura Sphere, further strengthing its defensive abilities. So, NU players, how does Quilladin look as an NU support Pokemon, does it look viable?

 

[Mattiator]

Hmmm, gotta say Quilladin could be pretty neat with all those support moves.

Took a look over Fletchinder again, really the only thing you can do is

FlameCharge
Acrobatics
Steel Wing (lol)
Swords Dance

Maybe toss on a berry to reduce SE Rock damage?

Better than Pidgeot, I guess?

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

Hmmm, gotta say Quilladin could be pretty neat with all those support moves.

Took a look over Fletchinder again, really the only thing you can do is

FlameCharge
Acrobatics
Steel Wing (lol)
Swords Dance

Maybe toss on a berry to reduce SE Rock damage?

Better than Pidgeot, I guess?

It's funny that Pidgeot gets a more powerful fire move (heat wave) than Fletchinder.

 

[Shroomisaur]

It's funny that Pidgeot gets a more powerful fire move (heat wave) than Fletchinder.

Well that's not true, Fletchinder does get Flamethrower, Fire Blast, and Overheat via TM. Fletchinder's 56 SpA makes them pretty weak, but they're much better than Flame Charge and will be viable in NU.

Fletchinder is very interesting, but it really really misses Brave Bird, it's what makes Talonflame such a monster in OU. Acrobatics can be used with an item like Red Card or with no item at all, but something as weak and frail as Fletchinder will miss an item boost. Sadly, there's no other options. Even without any boost though, a 165 BP Priority move will be scary in NU.

Gogoat will be an interesting Pokemon in NU, it has solid bulk and access to Bulk Up and reliable recovery in Milk Drink. It also gets Leech Seed and Horn Leech for even more sustainability, so it will be a great tank.

Aromatisse will finally see some use as well, once NU is set up. It has solid stats, all the support options of a Fairy-type, and can't be stopped by Taunt/Encore users. It can run solid Calm Mind or Trick Room sets as well. Watch out, Musharna!

 

[AOPSUser]

Well that's not true, Fletchinder does get Flamethrower, Fire Blast, and Overheat via TM. Fletchinder's 56 SpA makes them pretty weak, but they're much better than Flame Charge and will be viable in NU.

Fletchinder is very interesting, but it really really misses Brave Bird, it's what makes Talonflame such a monster in OU. Acrobatics can be used with an item like Red Card or with no item at all, but something as weak and frail as Fletchinder will miss an item boost. Sadly, there's no other options. Even without any boost though, a 165 BP Priority move will be scary in NU.

Gogoat will be an interesting Pokemon in NU, it has solid bulk and access to Bulk Up and reliable recovery in Milk Drink. It also gets Leech Seed and Horn Leech for even more sustainability, so it will be a great tank.

Aromatisse will finally see some use as well, once NU is set up. It has solid stats, all the support options of a Fairy-type, and can't be stopped by Taunt/Encore users. It can run solid Calm Mind or Trick Room sets as well. Watch out, Musharna!

At this point, I don't think you can assume Gogoat or Aromatisse will be NU. Aromatisse is like Audino 3.0, and with its bulk and typing I'd really be surprised if it doesn't make RU. Gogoat is quite decent defensively too and might make some higher tier.

Fletchinder just sucks.

 

[MagicMissingno]

Sadly I doubt Aurourus will even be usable in this tier. Ice/Rock is a candidate for the worst type combination.

 

[AOPSUser]

Sadly I doubt Aurourus will even be usable in this tier. Ice/Rock is a candidate for the worst type combination.

Based on matchups against attacking moves alone it is the single worst typing in existence.

But then again Ice/Grass is second worst. And Abomasnow was UU last gen. Aurorus will probably be at the very least one tier below Abomasnow just because the lower tiers love Hail so much. Then again if Abomasnow drops to RU we could see it in NU, but it's too early to think of such things.

 

[MagicMissingno]

Based on matchups against attacking moves alone it is the single worst typing in existence.

But then again Ice/Grass is second worst. And Abomasnow was UU last gen. Aurorus will probably be at the very least one tier below Abomasnow just because the lower tiers love Hail so much. Then again if Abomasnow drops to RU we could see it in NU, but it's too early to think of such things.

Maybe. It might be able to just get by with that huge HP stat. I forget the number but when I played with mine ingame he managed to take powerful SE hits and strike back with Avalanche as long as he wasn't hit by a fighting or steel attack. Not the best thing to judge competitive value but it's something at least.