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[Gen 8] More Balanced Hackmons

Making a few announcements in regards to mbh's future come gen 8.

Firstly we've decided to completely wipe the slate clean. Mbh will function as a pet mod for natdex bh, at least to start.

We kinda realized that the model of aiming to maximize diversity wasn't a very stable one. Centralization in metas is a good thing because there are so many mons. We don't think there's really a way to make a huge amount of mons usable while having the idea of consistency be achievable. There'll always be something that you just couldn't account for when building when it comes to bh, I believe, but this sort of issue is only magnified in a meta like mbh, where instead of the set being an unset, its one of the many viable options available. I personally hope to make a bh that aims to be more consistent/skillbased, though I have very little idea of how to approach going about that rn.

So uhh yeah, big thanks to those who bothered to contribute when they did, sorry all that's just kinda being washed away now. I am hoping the metagame grows come the new gen as people seek to play all-mons bh, since this basically died months ago due to lack of people who cared.



Also I'm preemptively banning Eternatus Eternamax form idc if it ends up not being usable in base bh fuck that mon and everything it stands for bye
 
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alright lets do this

Gen 8 MBH is now underway! It will feature the whole national dex, with some QOL changes made to stats, moves, items, or abilities.

Banlist carries on from the previous gen. That means sleep/ability clause is in effect, etc. Discussion is open to unbanning if there is a solid argument to be made, however.

New Bans:
Neutralizing Gas: self-explanatory.
Gorilla Tactics / Intrepid Sword: Give too much power at no cost, which can be abused by mons like MMX and Kartana.
Libero: clone of Protean.

Watchlist:
Octolock: overwhelmingly pressures walls that lack pivoting moves or Shed Shell. Note that it goes through Magic Bounce.
Fishious Rend / Bolt Beak: Very high base power, abusable by the likes of Greninja-Ash and Zekrom. On the other hand, Giratina resists both and Zygarde is immune to Bolt Beak, so we'll have to see.
Dynamaxing: Doubling HP limits offensive counterplay while the added BP and effects limit defensive counterplay. Overall, it is very difficult to prepare for - OU and OMs are discussing bans and there's no exception here.

Notes:
According to this post, in-battle formes do not exist outside of battle and therefore cannot be hacked. This means Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta-Crowned, Darmanitan-Galar, and Eternatus-Eternamax are illegal.
According to this (unconfirmed) post, Silvally can use different types without RKS System or type memories.

Discussion Topics:
  • Would Arceus be able to use different types without Multitype or plates as well? How would this affect the metagame?
  • How does/should this affect Mega Evolutions and other in-battle formes like Zygarde-Complete (if at all)?
  • How do Gen 8 additions affect the original metagame? What are potential mons that need buffs?
 
Greninja-Ash (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
- Fishious Rend

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Stealth Rock
- Quiver Dance
- Sludge Bomb

Groudon @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Shore Up
- Thousand Waves
- Defog
- Entrainment
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Zekrom @ Dragon Memory
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Multi-Attack
- Shell Smash
- Toxic

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Electrify
- Stealth Rock

Ho-Oh @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Aerilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Frustration
- Rapid Spin
- Sacred Fire
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

guys i dont do drugs but this makes a really strong case that i do
 
Pretty excited for this.

Everything on the Watchlist looks reasonable to ban. Octolock is really underrated and pretty dumb but it should be explored since NatDex is quite different. 170 BP moves look pretty borked though especially with much better abusers (Ashninja for example). Dynamax is dumb in the first place so yeah. I could also see stuff like Double Iron Bash being potentially banworthy especially with stuff like Kartana lol. Also Shed this mon is actually broken.

The forme thing is definitely interesting seeing how gen 7 BH revolved a lot around Mega Evolutions, Zyg-C, and POgre so if they are not allowed... We can easily implement this without consequences though (by simply buffing the base forme).

Arceus formes seem really versatile and powerful as well as interesting as it offers a lot of versatility and some types (Dark, Fairy, Fire?). I'm leaning towards allowing for the sake of consistency with Vally formes. While Arceus spam seems really dumb 1 Species Clause is a thing (and can probably be implemented), if species clause is implemented ability clause should probably go.

I think that there needs to be moderate play testing in order to evaluate the meta and see what needs to be buffed or nerfed, theorymon in this chaos is really not a good idea.
 

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