General Doubles Metagame Thread

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noobcubed said:
This is the problem, and it's been alluded to earlier by whoever mentioned that many mid-ranked ladder teams are exclusively self-centred, with no thought for stopping the opponent's plans. These teams will lose to (a) any team with any kind of goodstuff element (not necessarily full goodstuffs, i'm talking just running Fake Out or Taunt), which will spot, say, Frost Breath/Anger Point (can't believe no-one's mentioned that one yet) from a million miles off and stop it, and (b) another self-centred team which has a even more ridiculously powerful but preventable strategy (which is therefore in many ways worse than the team it beat). If the losing player is going to react to and emulate one of these teams, it's probably (b), because self-centred teams only require a knowledge of your own team, whereas successful goodstuff requires deep knowledge of the entire metagame, and a newcomer used to Psych Up-passing stat boosts against other newcomers will really struggle to make a team without gaping holes. We should be encouraging newcomers to make these steps, but for many they will have to go backwards (ladder-wise) before they improve, which is preventing them from doing so.
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...so basically what (I think) I got out of that is that these sorts of teams exist because of the simplicity in making them (and the fact that they score a lot of wins when they really shouldn't). It's not just the teams though, it is also the mindframe. I large portion of these players think very inactively, just clicking Beat Up on Terrakion and Rock Slide with little to no regard for what the opponent might be doing. Simply put, they don't even think about the opponent, let alone his/her plans. I suppose you could consider it a tendency, as new players will be looking for easy ways to win, or combos that look cool.

Anyways, I don't want to start a big discussion on the ladder in a place that looks into Doubles competitively, so moving on.

Imprison has a lot applications in Doubles, I've run Imprison Chandy, Imprison Musharna, and even Imprison Landorus-Therian. On almost anything, it can be used to prevent opposing Protects, easing prediction. Imprison + Trick Room is a really great way to stop Trick Room, and even opens your team to the possibility of ruining Tailwind teams with Trick Room itself. Overall, it is very useful (and one of the few reasons one might run Uxie over Cresselia).
 
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It has been offically tested ingame. Sky Drop + Gravity was, in fact, fixed in BW2. The Battle Video code is 19-79576-31189 if anyone wishes to verify.
 
I'm loving Prankster Role Play Tornadus-I right now, it has become so easy to win the weather war against Sand and Sun this way. I usually pair it up with a fast Politoed, so that my weather goes before even the fastest neutral-natured Tyranitar. But why would I want to do that? Lemme break it down for you.

So the T-Tar is accompanied by some Grass-type like Breloom or Amoonguss or whatever that'll be all up in Politoed's face, but since Tornadus-I is sitting pretty there they hesitate to not Protect first and let T-Tar take care of business. T-Tar is safe right? Even Water Gem Politoed cannot OHKO Tyranitar, while Chople Berry allows it to survive Focus Blast. Tyranitar prepares to strike down Tornadus, when all of a sudden the weather changes. Dafuq is going on?? Tornadus has used Role Play to copy its teammate Politoed's Drizzle, reactivating Rain. Politoed then goes for Mystic Water Rain boosted STAB Hydro Pump to deal a minimum of 99% to max HP Tar. BAM.

Ninetales is another target, as they usually pair themselves up with a Chlorophyll pokemon. I simply pull off the Role Play + Hydro Pump combo to own Ninetales, and any poor sod that went for Solarbeam that turn will be ripped up by Tornadus no questions asked. The only way this combo can be interrupted is if Ninetales goes for Hypnosis or Sunny Day (apparently there was no reason to) or if the partner has Sleep Powder or another attack other than Solarbeam that can KO Toed.

Abomasnow is trickier, as Tornadus itself is relied upon to take out Abomasnow, which becomes risky in Hail, but in the same vein their Blizzards are far less potent under Rain.

So why not just Prankster Rain Dance you ask? Well, Role Pay has other uses as well. My main use for Role Play is to copy Storm Drain off my Gastrodon so that it can spam Rain-boosted Surfs and give Tornadus a power boost each time. It has also been used numerous times to copy Intimidate, Volt Absorb/Lightningrod/Motor Drive, Flash Fire (suck it Heatran!), and other abilities like Sheer Force to swing a matchup in my favor. Tornadus could even copy the opposing team's speed boosting ability (Chlorophyll, Sand Rush) but has yet to be attempted by myself either because the opposing mons are too dangerous the weather war is won :P. Once, I copied Natural Cure off a Celebi to cure myself of its Thunder Wave. Role Play: Crazy stuff, man.
 
Punchshroom said:
I'm loving Prankster Role Play Tornadus-I right now, it has become so easy to win the weather war against Sand and Sun this way. I usually pair it up with a fast Politoed, so that my weather goes before even the fastest neutral-natured Tyranitar. But why would I want to do that? Lemme break it down for you.

So the T-Tar is accompanied by some Grass-type like Breloom or Amoonguss or whatever that'll be all up in Politoed's face, but since Tornadus-I is sitting pretty there they hesitate to not Protect first and let T-Tar take care of business. T-Tar is safe right? Even Water Gem Politoed cannot OHKO Tyranitar, while Chople Berry allows it to survive Focus Blast. Tyranitar prepares to strike down Tornadus, when all of a sudden the weather changes. Dafuq is going on?? Tornadus has used Role Play to copy its teammate Politoed's Drizzle, reactivating Rain. Politoed then goes for Mystic Water Rain boosted STAB Hydro Pump to deal a minimum of 99% to max HP Tar. BAM.

Ninetales is another target, as they usually pair themselves up with a Chlorophyll pokemon. I simply pull off the Role Play + Hydro Pump combo to own Ninetales, and any poor sod that went for Solarbeam that turn will be ripped up by Tornadus no questions asked. The only way this combo can be interrupted is if Ninetales goes for Hypnosis or Sunny Day (apparently there was no reason to) or if the partner has Sleep Powder or another attack other than Solarbeam that can KO Toed.

Abomasnow is trickier, as Tornadus itself is relied upon to take out Abomasnow, which becomes risky in Hail, but in the same vein their Blizzards are far less potent under Rain.

So why not just Prankster Rain Dance you ask? Well, Role Pay has other uses as well. My main use for Role Play is to copy Storm Drain off my Gastrodon so that it can spam Rain-boosted Surfs and give Tornadus a power boost each time. It has also been used numerous times to copy Intimidate, Volt Absorb/Lightningrod/Motor Drive, Flash Fire (suck it Heatran!), and other abilities like Sheer Force to swing a matchup in my favor. Tornadus could even copy the opposing team's speed boosting ability (Chlorophyll, Sand Rush) but has yet to be attempted by myself either because the opposing mons are too dangerous the weather war is won :p. Once, I copied Natural Cure off a Celebi to cure myself of its Thunder Wave. Role Play: Crazy stuff, man.
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Role Play can be pretty useful. I personally enjoy Skill Swap Cresselia more at the moment, snagging abilities like Storm Drain or Swift Swim from the opponent to ruin their plans (I once swapped Storm Drain from a Gastrodon to my Cresselia to my Heatran, a Heatran laughing in the face of Surf spam is a rare and wonderous sight). Prankster Role Play has quite of few applications too, though you do lose Prankster after you use it once, and unlike Skill Swap, you have to swap out to accomplish it twice, generally the reason I like Skill Swap more. My team's Skill Swap Cresselia set:
cresselia.gif

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 96 SpA / 96 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psyshock
- Icy Wind
- Skill Swap
- Sunny Day

This thing is a great counter to various playstyles, especially Rain, which absolutely despises this thing. Apart from that it's pretty standard, but the simple addition of Skill Swap to the moveset adds in a Rain counter role, among other things. I've done everything from snagging Technician for Icy Wind spam to stealing Swift Swim from Kingdra to giving my Heatran Levitate. Skill Swap has a ton of applications, I would recommend people to try it out, it will not disappoint.
 
Tell me, does Skill Swap work on your own teammate's Protect. Because that will make it tons more useful if it does.
 
My point with Skill Swap is that it works more than once (it also gets through Substitute, if that's any consolation). Anyways, whatevs.
 
Hey guys, what do you think of Shaymin-Sky?


We all know that Shaymin-Sky hits hard and fast, but what I think people overlook is the offensive support it brings to the table! Specifically Seed Flare's 68% chance to lower Special Defense and Air Slashes 57% chance to flinch (taking into account the miss chances of both moves). While these changes obviously aren't guaranteed, even if they don't happen, Shaymin-S still deals out a considerable amount of damage! Shaymin-S Seed Flare in combination with a strong special attacking partner is insanely scary, and can give you enough power to burst down even the bulkiest Pokemon if you get the Special Defense drop. Shaymin-Sky can also flinch utility Pokemon so they cannot set up things like Trick Room and Tailwind while doing a bit of damage to them. Shaymin-Sky is also one of the fastest Tailwind users, which is pretty nifty.

People shouldn't just look at Shaymin-Sky as a glass cannon (it's actually kind of bulky! but the common weaknesses don't help it). Compared to other glass cannons like Darkrai and Deoxys, it has a little bit more utility than just killing everything.
 
DTC said:
Hey guys, what do you think of Shaymin-Sky?


We all know that Shaymin-Sky hits hard and fast, but what I think people overlook is the offensive support it brings to the table! Specifically Seed Flare's 68% chance to lower Special Defense and Air Slashes 57% chance to flinch (taking into account the miss chances of both moves). While these changes obviously aren't guaranteed, even if they don't happen, Shaymin-S still deals out a considerable amount of damage! Shaymin-S Seed Flare in combination with a strong special attacking partner is insanely scary, and can give you enough power to burst down even the bulkiest Pokemon if you get the Special Defense drop. Shaymin-Sky can also flinch utility Pokemon so they cannot set up things like Trick Room and Tailwind while doing a bit of damage to them. Shaymin-Sky is also one of the fastest Tailwind users, which is pretty nifty.

People shouldn't just look at Shaymin-Sky as a glass cannon (it's actually kind of bulky! but the common weaknesses don't help it). Compared to other glass cannons like Darkrai and Deoxys, it has a little bit more utility than just killing everything.
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Don't forget the spectacular Earth Power for coverage. I disagree on Darkrai not having more utility, it has Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, Will O' Wisp, etc to work with, and makes for a solid speedy support pokemon. I've always been pretty rejecting towards Shaymin-Sky, imo it has very little to work with outside of what was mentioned, and its STAB attacks aren't very promising in coverage terms, but 127 base speed is pretty good, I suppose.
 
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