Data Generation 9 Data Preview (and WIP cleaning!)

[LouisCyphre]

(once Gen 9 is properly launched, this thread and a bunch of others will be Time-Machine'd. we're condensing! see below!)

It's time. JJayyFeather nightblitz42 TMan87

So, it's here, on the wishy-washy date previously given. First order of business:

The Generation 9 Player Handbook AND Comprehensive Rules, also known as simply "the Handbook".

You'll notice that specific headers are empty, which is because I haven't bulleted them yet. You'll also notice that other sections are only in bullet form, which is because I haven't written them into prose yet. I have yet only two hands, despite myself.


In this new Handbook are guidelines for many, many things that we've sort of collectively managed in an unspoken (read: awful) fashion, such as how we post our orders, post to equip items, or post to specify Pokemon for targeting or switching. Some of these go against our longest-time habits (such as requiring a species name and :icon: when switching Pokemon).

Even I will probably trip on these on occasion, but these types of clarifications are important for any future growth we wish to have as a game. I'd like help cultivating a culture of gently reminding each other to make these corrections, rather than one of sharking people that they "switched illegally, so it didn't happen and I will order now," everywhere in the game except in high stakes PvP. We already have such a culture, for the most part, but emphasizing this during a period of upheaval is important.

Many threads are being combined to create this single, towering omnibus encapsulating half of everything you need to play BBP. As we go forward it will absorb myriad threads and functions you're used to link-hunting for, including:

• BBP Beginner's Guide
  Literally the first post anyone should see in the forum, so it goes at the top of the "how-to-play" thread that every new player will look for. Pretty simple.
• Implementation Thread
  Because every rules update and patch note will be a mod reply to the Handbook, we won't be needing this any more. When you see that the Handbook has a new post, on its new home on the main forum, you will know that there has been a rules update. To discuss the rules update, you'll go to the Union Room or to a dedicated Feedback thread in Policy if a thread on that topic exists (see below).
• Resource Compendium
  This will exist in post #3 of the Handbook, found here. This is the post that you'll most likely want to bookmark.
• Mechanical Ruling Compendium
  Remember this shit? Don't. We won't be needing this anymore; instead, Feedback Heads will harass us until gently remind us to put rulings into the patch notes, and then also make the corresponding edits to the Handbook.
• Policy Center
  Instead of holding disparate pieces of vital information, organized in piss-poor fashion, this subforum will be returned to its original purpose: Hosting threads for feedback regarding topics of the moment. For example, we might open a thread to assess people's thoughts on D/E moves for a time, before closing it when it has run its course. This more closely resembles how feedback is given in other parts of Smogon. Persistent threads for each Facility in the game are also encouraged.
  
  And yes, this very thread, despite existing on the main forum, is an example of the type of thread that will exist in the Policy Center.

The Generation 9 Data Audit Tables, also known as simply "the DAT" or "DAT9".

This more closely resembles the DAT8 than I would like, mainly for Discord bot reasons. In addition to an overall facelift, I have updated every move, held item, and ability to use more proper rules text syntax for their effect text. Manually. All year.

In particular, following Pages in the DAT9 haven't been finished by me (consider this a checklist):

• Nature page
• All Item pages
• "STAB Effects" page (this should become a Type page, with type effectiveness info as well.)
• Conditions page (all Named conditions will be here, instead of having multiple "Effect" pages.)
• Combo page (move to Move page??)
• Bundles page (move to the Shop Zone in the Prize Tower Thread.)
• All historical CAP movepools (move to their own sheet??)

In fact, expanding that checklist:

• I have to decide how I'll generate and display a list of Protect- and Decoy-bypassing moves.
• I have to put BAPs, En Costs, and so on for both new moves and reworked moves. You'll see a lot of "#N/A" for the moment.
• I have to tag all of the #Wind and #Slicing moves.

This is a lot of info, and I've only had a few months to design and write most of it.

Please enjoy seeing both of these resources fill out over the next week or so!


The Leveling Update

The Handbook goes over this in places, but here's the quick and dirty:

• Partially defeating a leveling facility (2/3 KOs, capturing a non-Boss Pokemon, or beating a Maid but not Lucy, etc.) will award your Pokemon with partial levels. That is to say, EXP.
• Your Pokemon need 10 EXP of their Level to Level up. EXP from Levels below theirs is no good to them. It doesn't spill over.
• If your Pokemon is at Level 2 with 9 EXP...
  • ...and you clear a Level 2 Facility with them, they'll be Level 3 with 0 EXP. Instead...
  • ...if you take them into a Level 3 Facility, either you'll lose and end up partway through Level 3, or you'll win and you'll end up Level 3 with 9 EXP. Plan your Leveling Parties accordingly!
• Hidden Abilities at 2. Nature at 3. Hidden Power at 4.

Advanced Techniques can be earned by Level 4 Pokemon. You might find more info just a bit further below...!


The Facility Update

​

A big point of friction in Generation 9 is that there's essentially only three things to do: Try to get 5*s in the Battle Tree and Realgam, or try to get middling Legendaries in TLG. The tournament grinded to a halt as per tradition, and there's just not really anything to aim for anymore.

Enter Post-Game Rewards.

We've corralled the Facility Heads up and squeezed them for high-end content, intended for you to wield your Megas and Legends, and maybe Z-Moves if anyone has any, to try to earn rewards you did not ever think we would offer.

Fast breakdown:

• The Battle Tree: Featuring a new system for dynamically adding buffs to foes for rewards, the Tree should offer a much more granular experience that can be adjusted for Pokemon of any caliber.
  You'll have a shot at and Mega Evolution in this Facility.
• Realgam Coliseum: You know what this is. Featuring a trainer with ties to mighty dragons, the newest Sim offering will push your teambuilding to the limit.
  This will offer and Z-Move access.
• The Safari Zone: The habitats you know today will be aimed at low-Level challengers looking to fill out their initial rosters. Later Safaris will test your planning and resource management to see if you're fit for the hunt!
  This will offer and Terastallization.
• The Raid Zone: Get a taste of this Facility in the ongoing Conquering Northern King event! Team up with a partner to topple larger-than-life bosses... If you can survive together!
  This will offer and Dynamax access.
• The Battle Pike: You've watched me sit on this all year while I rewrite the game instead. Now that this is almost done, it's time to overwork myself somewhere else!
  This will offer , as well as the Advanced Techniques of your choice. Pike historically takes longer, and is easier to fail, than the other Facilities; positioning it well to act as a catch-all if you don't want to try to force Houndoom through the Tree for its Mega.
• The Legend Gauntlet: The premier source of bulk Legendaries will be stepping up to fill in missing gaps, and to put your currently-existing Legends to the test in higher pools, exclusive to players who already have a prize from a prior TLG!
• League Circuit: This more structured PvP system will take the place of Tournaments going forward. Players will enter into pools, much like TLG, and will be able to partake in one League Match per month under cycling rulesets. Further details, and prizing, will remain pending. We want people to Level their Pokemon and help tune the new content first!

"But won't these Pokemon break the game in half if we earn them?" Sure, if. We can burn that bridge when we get there, such as making them count as a use an advanced technique if you send them, making them count as two send-ins, or any number of other limiting factors outside of their power. They've collected dust in the Data Audit and in NPC hands for far too long, I think!

***

Below, please post any thoughtful replies you're sure to have.

And pretty please, just for me, while I fill in the last of the gaps... Try to keep feedback focused on the things that look mostly finished, please?

 

[LouisCyphre]

i like that i could populate this "we'll never get good legends" post basically entirely with oora. keep up that energy

Hide

 

[P2X7]

I guess I'm making my longer post here. Please do not mistake my typical skepticism and flywheel-like resilience to mechanical changes for baseless negativity, as I recognize that much of this overhaul either leads to interesting interactions or provides objective benefits compared to our older system.

Extreme Stat-Boosting Moves:
Despite the accompanying change to the stat boost system that magnifies these Moves' power, the sacrifice required to use them makes them entirely unappealing when combined with their limited buff durations. Belly Drum and Fillet Away are the worst examples, as the loss of 40-50% of their users' HP is essentially suicidal when considered alongside the free action granted to the user's opponent by using them, but the fact that an opponent can easily stall out 1/3 to 1/2 of these buffs' duration with P/E moves alone further damages their risk-reward ratios.

Sand Veil / Snow Cloak:
As written, one can throw out a Mud-Slap ordering second to buy an entire round of free actions, or equip Bright Powder to relegate an opponent to 6 BAP attacks for the entire game. I think the old versions were better, honestly.

Technician: While I understand the need to prevent Maushold from demolishing neutral matchups with Population Bomb, this change comes at the cost of significantly impacting the strength of the several balanced multi-hit + Technician users that spend a significant portion of their power budgets on the use of 16+ BAP STAB attacks, such as Ambipom, Breloom, Smokomodo, or Cinccino. Therefore, I would like to suggest reverting Technician to a 1.5x modifier per hit on multi-hit attacks and targeting PopBomb—the real problematic element—in one of the following ways:

1. PopBomb's BAP becomes 1 OR 1.5 (rounded up) per hit.
2. Technician's effects on multi-hit moves caps at 5.
3. PopBomb never receives more than 5 BAP from Technician.
4. PopBomb does not benefit from Technician

OHKO Moves: While I think that the idea of creating new win conditions is interesting, I don't like the loss that accompanies them. The "classic" 25 BAP/30% Accuracy OHKO moves enabled the construction of unique strategies from otherwise underwhelming aspects of our game, such as Accuracy boosts and Power Anklet, while also providing both a nuclear-strength combination and an unreliable yet nonignorable comeback tool; in contrast, their new versions are locked to Combinations due to their 0% Accuracy and typically require completion of a "minigame" that can hinder a player's ability to win normally if interrupted. Moreover, the exception to this pattern, Sheer Cold, would feel terrible to play against, as its sole purpose would be threatening players with an instantaneous KO to scare them out of using the advanced mechanics they obtained through a significant time investment.

I also find the willingness to create somewhat convoluted auto-KO setups for OHKO moves while neglecting Perish Song—the progenitor of such tactics—odd, but I digress.

Pay Day / Happy Hour / Make It Rain:
Is there any way for me to convince you guys to let these moves earn additional RC and/or TC for their user's team when used in an Items: OFF battle? Combo Counter generation is a clever adaptation of their in-game effect, but a direct translation would be nice when grinding—especially for newer players.

Sleep Talk / Metronome / Assist:
Sleep Talk's nerf seems unnecessary, as it's not a very strong move unless the user's already expended an action on Rest and managed to survive.

If possible, I'd like a tag for Metronome-eligible moves in the DAT, as I'm having trouble thinking of any Move that would be worth calling under the current restrictions.

Legendary Pokemon:
I guess I'll have another chance to sink my crooked talons into Celesteela, huh? Anyway, I think this sounds interesting, although I note that there is almost never a situation in which use of a Legendary Pokemon is worth spending 2 team slots; consumption of a Mega Evolution was the historical condition for use of these Pokemon in serious PvP content (see Birkals's Mewtwo or...Groudon, I think), and it worked fine then.

As it exists now, I'm having a hard time envisioning the Safari Zone distributing a Legendary or mechanic unless such a reward is locked to its final stage, at which point it basically becomes The Legend Run 2.0. This would be a perfect venue for Paradox Pokemon, though.

Revavroom:
Neat decision; this thing has a cool design, but its in-game coverage leaves much to be desired.

Mycelium Might:
As this Ability is a variation of Stall that is strictly detrimental under most situations, and as it is the only Ability possessed by the sole evolutionary line that bears it, I would like to suggest giving Mycelium Might users the option to deactivate it on an action-by-action basis, exactly as we did for its "parent" Ability.

Smeargle:
To address a personal issue, can we let Smeargle freely swap out its Sketched moves at any point after achieving Level 4? There is a chance that I'll obtain a Level 4 Smeargle from the 2022 Harvest King event, but the thought that I'll be stuck with 40+ sub-Level 3 attacks that I must manually replace through in-battle Sketches as the rest of my profile advances is unpleasant. We could implement some sort of cooldown (e.g. once per week/month) to spare Approvers from arbitrary or capricious changes, as long as we alleviate what is essentially a punishment for investing time into this Pokemon.

Also, if you guys are feeling really generous, you could let me grandfather all of my Sketched moves into the next system, provided they're of an appropriate Level for my Smeargle to learn. :p

 

[Mowtom]

Minor typo I found: in the Pokemon tab Heatran is listed as knowing Magma Vortex rather than Magma Storm.

Technician: While I understand the need to prevent Maushold from demolishing neutral matchups with Population Bomb, this change comes at the cost of significantly impacting the strength of the several balanced multi-hit + Technician users that spend a significant portion of their power budgets on the use of 16+ BAP STAB attacks, such as Ambipom, Breloom, Smokomodo, or Cinccino. Therefore, I would like to suggest reverting Technician to a 1.5x modifier per hit on multi-hit attacks and targeting PopBomb—the real problematic element—in one of the following ways

So, the new version of Technician says:

When the user performs an attack with six or less (6-) BAP per hit, that has a maximum of two or less (2-) hits: The BAP of that attack (per hit) is increased by half (x1.5).

When the user performs an attack with six or less (6-) BAP per hit, that has a maximum of three or more (3+) hits: The BAP of that attack is increased by one (1).

Parentheses consistently denote reminder text in the gen 9 data audit, so I read this as the first line I quoted reminding you that BAP means per hit. Then the second line I quoted does not bother reminding you of this, since you have just been reminded. This is just a buff to current Technician, since current Technician is "only" +1 BAP (per hit) on multi hit moves and there's no more reduced EN cost.

 

[P2X7]

So, the new version of Technician says:

Parentheses consistently denote reminder text in the gen 9 data audit, so I read this as the first line I quoted reminding you that BAP means per hit. Then the second line I quoted does not bother reminding you of this, since you have just been reminded. This is just a buff to current Technician, since current Technician is "only" +1 BAP (per hit) on multi hit moves and there's no more reduced EN cost.

While possible, I don't think that's true. Otherwise, why would we need a second reminder that the Ability applies to attacks with "(6-)" BAP?

Also, I guess I should have said "+1 BAP per hit" instead of 1.5x BAP.

 

[LouisCyphre]

technician:
for the lowest denominator, there's no harm in reminding people again. this is exactly the kind of suggestion i'd most like to see.

regarding numbers; see rule 1.2 of the new handbook:

Low numeric values in effect text may be repeated in both word and numeral form ("for their next two (2) turns"). This isn't an instruction to repeat the number or otherwise alter the effect. Instead, this is a safeguard against human error. Read these phrasings as a single number. If the word and the numeral indicate different numbers, that's a sign that there was a mistake made in the effect text. Such occurrences should be reported in the { Feedback Thread } for moderator correction

also:

Therefore, I would like to suggest reverting Technician to a 1.5x modifier per hit on multi-hit attacks and targeting PopBomb

dawg what. you come in here saying, "I have designed a solution for you", which is like going to your doctor saying "you will prescribe me x mg of y medicine."

maushold throwing around a high BAP normal stab, if it ends up being a problem, can be addressed by anything from messing with its BAP to its hit count directly. we haven't even put a bap (of, likely, 1) in the dat yet.

belly drum, fillet away:
+6 attack gives +24 flat damage. these will be extremely juiced moves.

support these with healing wish's new overheal or similar backup, and the ceiling goes even higher.

pay day etc:
encouraging people to mind-numbingly trade currency moves in flashmatches is not coming back.

sand veil / snow cloak:
IF it is snowing AND your accuracy stage is lowered THEN sunny day. iterate on that depending on the situation

remember that attract is functionally stronger sweet scent in BBP

ohko moves:
old okho combos are exactly the kind of hail mary nukes we reworked combinations to remove. these new ones are each targeted at a specific situation we'd prefer to have an out to.

as for counterplay to *new* okho combos; substitute and new endure will both serve you well.

"neglecting perish song" brother what. you don't even have the new conditions page yet.

mycelium might:
it's stall and mold breaker, but only for your status moves. and we even gave it a fanfiction buff for BBP, to not reduce the priority of your protect and so on.

we'll see how it performs once someone gets to use it.

smeargle:
i figured that trimming to meet the new requirements and otherwise transfering intact was the only logical method of transfer. but now i'm inclined to reset it just because i don't like the phrasing here.

 

[P2X7]

technician:
for the lowest denominator, there's no harm in reminding people again. this is exactly the kind of suggestion i'd most like to see.

regarding numbers; see rule 1.2 of the new handbook:

Oh; I missed that part. My mistake.

maushold throwing around a high BAP normal stab, if it ends up being a problem, can be addressed by anything from messing with its BAP to its hit count directly. we haven't even put a bap (of, likely, 1) in the dat yet.

Fair.

belly drum, fillet away:
+6 attack gives +24 flat damage. these will be extremely juiced moves.

support these with healing wish's new overheal or similar backup, and the ceiling goes even higher.

I am aware of the modifications to the stat change system. A promise that these moves will improve after sacrificing an entire teammate with Healing Wish or employing backup that could "break" anything (e.g. Aurora Veil or Shed Tail, probably) does little to improve their usability compared to conventional strategies, though.

pay day etc:
encouraging people to mind-numbingly trade currency moves in flashmatches is not coming back.

Fair.

sand veil / snow cloak:
IF it is snowing AND your accuracy stage is lowered THEN sunny day. iterate on that depending on the situation

remember that attract is functionally stronger sweet scent in BBP

Fair enough.

ohko moves:
old okho combos are exactly the kind of hail mary nukes we reworked combinations to remove. these new ones are each targeted at a specific situation we'd prefer to have an out to.

as for counterplay to *new* okho combos; substitute and new endure will both serve you well.

Is a restriction of scope really enough to call a 90–135-damage combination that can only be used against an opponent that has maneuvered their Pokemon into a significantly advantageous position an improvement from the old "hail mary nukes?"

"neglecting perish song" brother what. you don't even have the new conditions page yet.

While this is fair, I note that Horn Drill's trigger condition is a slower version of classic Perish Song's, and it requires the use of a Combo Counter to hit reliably. If your goal is cover a variety of situations with situational OHKOes, choosing to make two such moves work within the same design space seems unlikely.

mycelium might:
it's stall and mold breaker, but only for your status moves. and we even gave it a fanfiction buff for BBP, to not reduce the priority of your protect and so on.

we'll see how it performs once someone gets to use it.

It's a detrimental Ability granted to a Pokemon that lacks the stats to warrant such treatment. I don't think that play experience is strictly necessary to predict its consequences.

I'm fine waiting, though.

smeargle:
i figured that trimming to meet the new requirements and otherwise transfering intact was the only logical method of transfer. but now i'm inclined to reset it just because i don't like the phrasing here.

:foot-in-mouth-image:?
Not really sure why you're saying this. I was trying to plan my counter/award allocation in the last days of Gen VIII; I guess I was a little hyperbolic, but entitlement(?) was not my intended meaning.

 

[LouisCyphre]

(wow someone beat me to the picture)

O...kay. To clarify, my biggest immediate concern is breaking down text blocks that would be ambiguous even with the handbook, or instances where the text formatting was broken. This happens most in the early moves and abilities, alphabetically, since I did many of those first before jumping around. For example, once I had a format I liked for Aerial Ace, I could copy that phrasing to all no-miss moves. But there might be a move that says "This move can't miss" instead of "Accuracy checks for this move automatically succeed", which would need to be brought into line.

Examples:

• Someone pointed out to me that Trailblaze said "On hit" instead of "Effect Check" for its Speed-raising effect, which would let it be used under Sheer Force.
• Someone pointed out that Vital Spirit said "two (3)".
• Someone pointed out that Triage didn't correctly capture Rest.

This sort of book-keeping help is what we need most right now. Balancing game elements will be an ongoing process for the entirely of the game's lifespan. For now, what I want to ensure is that everything works as written.

As far as balance concerns, they're all dependent on one another. HP-Spending moves are now well supported with dedicated healing moves, Wish-passing, improved Screens support, and so on help mitigate the risk; and the duration can be extended if the user performs other boosting moves like Bulk Up. I won't be making promises, except that we've tuned the moves in consideration of what's available. Belly Drum and friends are *also* why Protect and its clones have flat En costs now: They don't work properly as counterplay if you just end up spending all of your Energy instead.

(Now, this does mean I have to get off my ass and finish formatting and pasting Items from the update document to the DAT9. But there are a lot of items!)

Some effects, like Illusion, are just going to be wordy no matter what. The only solution I see would be replacing the description with a summary and a link to a dedicated rule, which seems like overkill for a single ability.

That said, Conditions are in now. Take a peek, everyone!

 

[epicdrill]

I mentioned this on Discord, but I figure I should bring it up here as well to make sure it gets seen.

Right now, Partial Trapping says that it lasts until 4 of the subject's turns have ended. This creates a noticeable discrepancy in using partial trapping when you act before the target versus when you act after the target (which will usually be determined by speed order). Since it lasts for 4 of your opponent's turns, this means that if you use it when you act first, then it only deals damage for 3 steps (including the current step), leaving out the fourth step because the condition ends during that step. More importantly, if you use it step 3 when you act second, it doesn't end until the end of your opponent's turn step 1 of the round after next, leaving the opponent trapped for 2 switch phases instead of 1. This seems like a rather significant buff to the matchup control abilities of slower pokemon, because they can partially trap opponents when ordering second and have that trapping last through the opponent's next chance to initiate a raw switch. I'm curious if this is intended.

 

[LouisCyphre]

it is obviously not intended. it should be until 4 steps have ended

 

[P2X7]

The Corrosion status currently doesn't allow Poison-type moves to actually hit Steel-types.

Does Tinted Lens's ability to move the Type Effectiveness Multiplier to the next stage apply to resistance stage (e.g. resisted -> neutral) or to the actual damage modifier (e.g. a super-effective attack goes from 1.5x -> 2x)?

Are Delayed Attacks supposed to follow their targets to the bench? Currently they don't find new targets if someone switches out.

 

[LouisCyphre]

did you know ctrl+enter creates a new line in google sheets.

did you know it *also* sends your post without confirmation on smogon forums. anyway.


Corrosion: excellent catch; added the effect:
"While tallying type effectiveness, while the subject is the defender: Immunities to the Poison-type can't be tallied."

i was also able to clean up Grounded using the phrasing above, since that was a little rough.


Delayed Attacks: added the effect:
"When a Pokemon replaces a Victim on the field: The leaving Pokemon is removed from this condition's Victims; also, the replacement Pokemon is added to this condition's Victims."

i do wish i had a way to clean up the "fake attack" effect on Delayed Attacks, but this should function for now until I can think of better rules support.


Tinted Lens: it does indeed round x1.5 to x2. the type effectiveness multiplier is the result of the "Tallying Type Effectiveness" step of damage calc.

this is as large of a buff to the mons that carry this ability as it seems to be. mons on our danger radar are yanmega and venomicon-epilogue.

what i hope this ends up doing, is making these pokemon powerful anti-meta choices whenever a pokemon weak to their stabs is popular. but we're aware that this is a very pushed effect, and will be watching them.

 

[P2X7]

Ice Fang's description does not mention its flinch chance.

Several Electric-type moves (e.g. Thunderbolt/punch/fang) inflict paralysis with an unknown number of markers.

 

[LouisCyphre]

for paralysis:

Effects can create this effect "with X counters." That many Paralysis Counters are placed on the subject. Otherwise, the default number of counters is one (1).

for ice fang:
added flinching

 

[Snarguffle]

Here are the issues I spotted, from a beginner/returning player standpoint

• In the introduction, under Profile Creation: Presumably new players are intended to start with 12 JC. However, nowhere in this section is it stated that you start with any number of any kind of counter. The only place you could glean it from is the profile template, where said number is already filled in, which is not quite intuitive.
• In the introduction, under Profile Creation: The phrasing of the 'moves' section seems to imply that moves are sorted first by level, and then alphabetically. However, the example profile has all of the moves in alphabetical order, despite being a level 1 murkrow, presumably with both Level 0 and Level 1 moves. I was unable to determine which method is correct.

 

[P2X7]

Can a Pokemon's Rank ever be negative? This is theoretically achievable due to new elements such as the ruin quartet and Slow Start -Atk Varoom.

I've only recently looked at weathers; while Snow is cool as a sort of Legends-SV hybrid, I think it might be fun to keep Hail as a condition set by the eponymous move. Logically, there's nothing that would prevent formerly Hail-related mechanics from activating in Snow and in Hail if both weathers were to coexist, and our deliberate decision to preserve every move in the source franchise would give us a unique opportunity to explore this possibility.

 

[LouisCyphre]

sorting: by level, then alphabetical is correct

counters: good call. i'll find a good place to designate the exact starting amounts (even if they're 0, except for JC)

ranks: probably best to cap them at a floor of 0, to prevent weirdness for moves like strength sap.

hail: the decision to make the move hail call snow was done to ensure that there wasn't an entire additional fanfiction weather in the game that Gen 9 and later Pokemon couldn't summon. making hail a clone of snowscape is the cleanest solution to this.

new snow is an upgrade in game health anyway. since it doesn't punish your non-ice types, you can teambuild around the ice-type you are supporting more easily. since new endure doesn't demand passive damage for a pokemon to be considered viable, there's little upside for keeping both weathers around.

the existance of fog moves calling a fanfiction weather isn't very comparable since their distribution is so narrow. summoning fog is essentially a weather-clearing action.

 

[nightblitz42]

I prepared a comprehensive movelist resource. (link)

This time around, it accounts for pre-evolution moves! (thank LouisCyphre for helping with that implementation.)
But, the CAP data is still inaccurate. You'll need to use the Data Audit for CAP profiles.
Also, Signature Moves (and other Traits) are NOT accounted for in the movelist resource. Consult the Data Audit to check for Traits.

Therefore, if your Pokemon is non-CAP and has no special Traits, you only need a single copy-paste.

 

[LouisCyphre]

Items have now been added to the DAT9.

Pricing will go in the Prize Claim tower, where it will be more useful. Listing the prices in multiple locations is just asking for oversights, I think.

 

[Ooraloo]

I would prefer for pricing to be listed only in the DAT9 (and by extension, in the Discord bot) than only in the Prize Claim thread, for the sake of reducing the number of resources that claimers and approvers need to consult.

 

[P2X7]

hail: the decision to make the move hail call snow was done to ensure that there wasn't an entire additional fanfiction weather in the game that Gen 9 and later Pokemon couldn't summon. making hail a clone of snowscape is the cleanest solution to this.

new snow is an upgrade in game health anyway. since it doesn't punish your non-ice types, you can teambuild around the ice-type you are supporting more easily. since new endure doesn't demand passive damage for a pokemon to be considered viable, there's little upside for keeping both weathers around.

the existance of fog moves calling a fanfiction weather isn't very comparable since their distribution is so narrow. summoning fog is essentially a weather-clearing action.

Oh no, I agree about the usability of snow vs hail. I suppose keeping a weather "just because we can" and because it's existed for ~20 years, isn't a strong argument. I do think that should prevent hail from being lumped together with certain BBP fabrications as "fanfiction" decisions, though.

Items:

What are the plans for Rotom's Appliances? I don't see them in the Key Items section.

Spelon Berry lasts for an entire round, but the odds of landing more than a single attack against a frozen opponent without triggering freeze's damage minimization are remote.

Recycle's description implies that certain Items should have multiple uses. However, every consumable Item appears to have an indeterminate number of uses.

 

[LouisCyphre]

appliances: deleted. rotom just has the new forme shift command, as per deoxys. (reminder to TheEver to have a rotom appliance refund for players who can link to the prize post, where they bought the appliance.) in the same vein, we deleted the genesect drives, but i don't know if anyone even owns those.

spelon berry: true! i've added the following effect to the status granted by spelon berry; so you don't run afoul of freeze's damage-reducing effect, and so you don't thaw your frozen opponent if you manage to position to actually use spelon berry's boost. the frozen victim can still unfreeze themselves with their own thawing moves.
"● While the subject is attacking a Frozen defender: The effects of the defender's Freeze status are ignored. "

recycle: the language was intended for items with multiple uses, but i'll leave that language there for facilities that give items more uses, or for future new or revised items with multiple uses.

***

reposting this from discord: I think I'll prioritize bulleting out the remaining rules and leave prose to be filled in after. odds are, I'll have myriad things to correct anyway.

The first month or two of Generation 9 will be, essentially, the wild west metagame-wise, and players will be limit testing all manner of improved and new Pokemon both anyway. What I'd like to encourage people to do is buy weird or favorite Pokemon, try to create weird interactions, and sort of passively help fill in the rulebook in that way. But by no means, don't feel obligated.

The option exists for me to cram this week, and fill in and prose every single section of the new comp rules. But two issues arise:

• Most of that crammed work would likely be overturned anyway, meaning I would be doing that work twice.
• I'd really like to do things other than cram BBP work all week, especially work that I would be doing twice anyway. Like, playing something, for once.

I hope spread that work over the first month or two of the Generation proper, as corner cases arise needing rules support or clarification. Especially since most of that work is like this:

​

...We'll chip away at this as we go. Other rules that I need to get written down are new speed-tie rules (Orders given earlier go first in speed ties, so that both players know exactly what will happen), consecutive energy rules being removed (for newer Pokemon with single coverage moves in a type to keep up; this is a commitment to just cost moves appropriately rather than "crutching" on consecutive En), and defining when a Z-Move or Combination counts as its source move or moves, and when it counts as itself (for torment, disable, and so on.)

The feedback in this thread has been invaluable, and I really do genuinely appreciate the assistance (regardless of how I typically sound). Please keep it coming!

 

[P2X7]

What I'd like to encourage people to do is buy weird or favorite Pokemon, try to create weird interactions, and sort of passively help fill in the rulebook in that way. But by no means, don't feel obligated.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/what-does-it-look-like-i-do-for-a-living
(BBP edition)
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Stick only raises its holder's crit stage by 2, making it functionally identical to Scope Lens.

Should Alolan Raichu be affected by Light Ball?

Rocky Helmet (0.25x damage return) is inconsistent with Rough Skin and Iron Barbs (0.2x damage return).

TC should probably be easier to earn now that it's taken half of RC's duties by becoming a primary currency for Item purchases.

It almost looks like Ripen and Cud Chew's effects were transposed, as the latter doubles a Berry's effect while the former produces another Berry to consume at a later point.

 

[LouisCyphre]

stick: this is true. sirfetch'd is very well positioned after this in a world of buffed screens, but i'll make it +3 again.

light ball: raichu-alola is raichu. i should add reminder text mirroring that of thick club's.

rough skin and iron barbs: this is a nerf. opponents who can only deal reasonable damage with contact moves still basically auto-lose these matchups. rocky helmet is easier to remove and should therefore return more damage than the ability counterparts.

tc and rc: many prices you're familiar with will need to be revised, probably.

ripen and cud chew: yeah they were, huh. i'll let them rock.

***

(edit)

fairy lock: we erroneously had this bypassing decoys in gen 8 instead of protection. fixed.

a few other handpicked moves, such as Attract and Haze, were given a Protection bypass as well.

Use the new "Reference" tab to view a list of Protection- and Decoy-bypassing moves that populates itself!

 

[P2X7]

We should probably specify that delayed Egg Bomb is the only variant that bypasses Protect/Detect.

I'd add a note to the "Sluggish-Enabled Attacks" section regarding its compatibility with Metronome, as I'd use it for that purpose, too.

Resistance-inducing Berries appear to activate when any Pokemon uses a properly-typed attack, not just when the holder is targeted by one.