Generation 9 Free-For-All

[Darvin]

approved by Alexender

Generation 9 Free-For-All
Playable Now!​

Premise
[Gen 9] Free-For-All is a four-player format where all players are put against each other in one battle; the last player with Pokemon remaining wins. This is a combined concept of USUM's Battle Royal and the in-game Free-For-All format (Multi-Battle).

Rules

Clauses and Bans

Clauses

• Endless Battle Clause
• Evasion Moves Clause
• OHKO Clause
• Species Clause

Banlist
Pokemon

• Annihilape
• Arceus (all formes)
• Calyrex-Ice
• Calyrex-Shadow
• Chi-Yu
• Chien-Pao
• Darkrai
• Dialga
• Dialga-Origin
• Dondozo
• Eternatus
• Flutter Mane
• Giratina
• Giratina-Origin
• Groudon
• Iron Bundle
• Koraidon
• Kyogre
• Kyurem-White
• Landorus-Incarnate
• Magearna
• Mewtwo
• Miraidon
• Ogerpon-Hearthflame
• Palkia
• Palkia-Origin
• Rayquaza
• Shaymin-Sky
• Spectrier
• Ursaluna
• Blood Moon Ursaluna
• Urshifu-Single-Strike
• Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
• Zacian
• Zacian-Crowned

Abilities

• Moody
• Shadow Tag
• Toxic Chain
• Toxic Debris

Moves

• Acupressure
• Aromatic Mist
• Baton Pass
• Court Change
• Dark Void
• Final Gambit
• Flatter
• Follow Me
• Heal Pulse
• Hypnosis
• Last Respects
• Lovely Kiss
• Malignant Chain
• Poison Fang
• Rage Powder
• Sing
• Sleep Powder
• Spicy Extract
• Spore
• Swagger
• Toxic
• Toxic Spikes
• Yawn

Functionality

[Gen 9] Free-For-All has a number of distinct mechanics that work differently from either singles or doubles:

• Moves that target all adjacent foes (colloquially known as "spread moves") have their base power multiplied by x0.5, which is equivalent to the base power of those moves being halved (e.g. Earthquake becomes 50 Power rather than 100).
• Outrage, Petal Dance, Thrash, and Uproar randomly select a target; the odds of hitting a desired player is a 33.33% chance (1/3).
• Dragon Darts is a targeted move that hits the selected target twice.
• Storm Drain redirects and absorbs any Water-type move used by the opponent(s).
• Lightning Rod redirects and absorbs any Electric-Type move used by the opponent(s).

Frequently Asked Questions

FAQ

Q: Team Preview is enabled, but I can only see [x and y]'s teams. Why?

A: Team Preview still works for all four players; it's just a PS limitation that the big sprites only show for two people. You can still see all four teams on the side bars.


Q: How do entry hazards work?

A: When your Pokemon uses an entry hazard, the hazard gets set up on every other side. This means that all of the other players will suffer from Spikes and Stealth Rock damage, get badly poisoned from Toxic Spikes, and have their Speed lowered by Sticky Web.


Q: How do Tailwind, Light Screen, Safeguard, etc. work?

A: The stat boosts from Tailwind, Reflect, and Light Screen and protective properties from Mist, Safeguard, etc. only boost your Pokemon's stats.


Q: What happens when both teams on "the other side" black out?

A: The other teams being on a different side is purely visual and has no effect to how the battle plays on.


Q: Why does Dragon Darts work differently than in doubles?

A: Dragon Darts did not exist in Generation 7 and was not usable in Battle Royale as a result. We cannot know how it would work; this implementation is speculative.

Strategy

Reliable Recovery is critical in the Free-For-All format to keep your team healthy and guard your position. You only have 6 Pokemon but there are 18 opposing Pokemon, so playing too aggressively is likely to get you eliminated from the game before you’re in a position to win. Moreover, because there are 18 opposing threats you are more likely to need the same Pokemon to check multiple things, so keeping it healthy throughout the match is more important. This means offensive Pokemon with access to recovery moves are highly prized in this format and Wish passing is an excellent way to keep other Pokemon that lack access to such recovery healthy.

Example Sets

@

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wish
- Protect
- Flip Turn
- Scald

@
Gholdengo @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon

Trapping: many teams in Free-For-All will be built in a stall or semi-stall style. While wallbreakers are one option, using trappers to prevent switching is another way to punish these more passive teams. Utilizing trapping abilities like Whirlpool or Block can prevent the target from switching. You don't even necessarily need to defeat them yourself, as other players may do the job for you.

Example sets

@
Altaria @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Roost
- Fire Spin
- Perish Song

@
Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Block
- Salt Cure
- Recover
- Stealth Rock

Hazard Control is very challenging in Free-For-All. Any time a move like Stealth Rock is used, it sets the hazard on all three opposing sides of the field. This means hazards will be set against you much more often than they would in other formats, and your hazard removal needs to be very bulky and able to do its job repeatedly and consistently throughout the match. Simply slapping Rapid Spin on an offensive Pokemon is not sufficient in the Free-For-All format.

Example Sets

@
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Defog

@
Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Defog
- Taunt

Anti-Setup is critical in Free-For-All. Thanks to other players potentially serving as distractions, it is easy for setup sweepers (particularly more defensive ones) to get out of control. It is important to have options to deal with these situations, as you cannot rely on simply applying offensive pressure to prevent the setup in the first place. The Unaware ability and the moves Whirlwind, Roar, Haze, and Clear Smog are all excellent choices to protect your team. Moves like Darkest Lariat or Sacred Sword can be useful for defeating Pokemon that boost their defenses.

Example sets

@
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Stomping Tantrum

@
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Poison Jab
- Recover
- High Horsepower
- Haze

Sample Teams


Zamazenta Balance by Darvin


Volt-Turn Offense by Abandoned Samurai

Resources
Playability: The main Pokemon Showdown! server
Discord: https://discord.gg/UgWA9Uek94
Council:

Darvin (leader)
AbandonedSamurai
Imbion
Opacous
TheStorm64

 

[Darvin]

Generation 9 Free-For-All Viability Rankings

S Rank
Blissey
Corviknight

A+ Rank
Clefable
Clodsire
Garganacl
Skeledirge

A rank
Alomomola
Amoonguss
Gholdengo
Jirachi
Mandibuzz
Scream Tail

A- Rank
Chansey
Gastrodon
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Slowking-Galar
Umbreon
Walking Wake
Zamazenta
Zapdos-Galar

B Rank
Bellibolt
Ceruledge
Empoleon
Gallade
Gliscor
Hatterene
Iron Moth
Iron Valiant
Meowscarada
Ogerpon
Primeape
Sinistcha
Sylveon
Zapdos
Zamazenta-Crowned

C Rank
Arcanine-Hisui
Azumarill
Baxcalibur
Braviary-Hisui
Breloom
Cyclizar
Espathra
Great Tusk
Iron Hands
Kingambit
Ogerpon-Cornerstone
Pawmot
Quagsire
Quaquaval
Rabsca
Regieleki
Ting-Lu
Tinkaton
Vaporeon
Wo-Chien

 

[Darvin]

I was not expecting to make an update this quickly, but it came to our attention today that the Blissey family does not actually get access to the move Heal Bell. While it is technically in the game code and listed as an egg move for Happiny, there is no legal way for it to actually learn it as an egg move. This means there is no legal way to use Heal Bell, and Aromatherapy is a deleted move. This immediately set off discussions in the FFA council. The poor distribution of Heal Bell had been a serious concern even before this revelation, but now we learn we have nothing to fill this niche.

As players of Generation 8 Free-For-All know, the Badly Poisoned condition inflicted by Toxic and Toxic Spikes was metagame warping. Counterplay was limited, as with three opponents you would be facing a multitude of threats simultaneously that would need checking. Phasing is quite popular, which can force critical teammates onto Toxic Spikes. Most serious teams needed to carry multiple countermeasures, with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy being nearly mandatory on most compositions. Toxic was so oppressive that teambuilding revolved around it. Toxic and Toxic Spikes were already oppressive and potentially banworthy in generation 8 Free-For-All. And now we've completely lost Heal Bell.

A reasonable objection would be that the metagame could adapt to this. People could build teams using Pokemon with immunities to Toxic, Natural Cure, and Pokemon that can viably run Rest. In our view, this is somewhat akin to saying that a metagame could adapt to a 100% accurate Fissure, by primarily using Flying-types, the Magnet Rise move, or those with the Sturdy or Levitate ability. It may be possible to adapt, but it's too metagame warping to be reasonable. With the removal of Heal Bell, we feel that Toxic crosses this threshold in Free-For-All.

We also discussed the issue of the Toxic Orb along with the moves Fling, Switcheroo, and Trick. However, we determined that these were less problematic. There is no Pokemon with both Fling and Recycle in the dex so this is a once-per-match attack, no different than a Tricked Choice Scarf which can be equally crippling. We will not be considering a complex ban, so the collateral damage here of removing legitimate move and item options is not worth the much lower level of harm they cause. However, the Poison Fang move has a 50% chance to inflict the Badly Poisoned condition and we deemed this was worthy of being banned.

The council has voted, and by supermajority we have decided that Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Toxic Debris, and Poison Fang will be banned in Generation 9 Free-For-All. This may be revisited at a later point after Pokemon Home releases, if it alleviates the issue.

The voting record can be found here

 

[Jezza184]

Don't mean to rush you but is there any idea when this will be released. I thought it released alongside gen 9 randoms (singles) but I was wrong.

 

[Darvin]

Don't mean to rush you but is there any idea when this will be released. I thought it released alongside gen 9 randoms (singles) but I was wrong.

It comes down to the developers and their time availability. I don't want to rush/bother them, either, as I know they're quite busy.

In the meantime, you can go to the FFA Discord where people are setting up custom challenge matches of Gen 8 FFA with Gen 9 Pokemon.

 

[Jezza184]

It comes down to the developers and their time availability. I don't want to rush/bother them, either, as I know they're quite busy.

In the meantime, you can go to the FFA Discord where people are setting up custom challenge matches of Gen 8 FFA with Gen 9 Pokemon.

Ok thank you very much!

 

[ymadbroitmeTRUE]

The room OM said they discontinued it

 

[Darvin]

The room OM said they discontinued it

They are mistaken. Even now Generation 8 Free-For-All is still playable on Showdown under the category of Sw/Sh Singles, and still has people playing it. I was able to queue up and find a couple games last night.

What did happen is that Free-For-All is no longer an OM. We never really met the definition in the first place, and as a result a top-level decision was made to move us under the general umbrella of Pokemon Showdown rather than Other Metagames.

 

[ymadbroitmeTRUE]

They are mistaken. Even now Generation 8 Free-For-All is still playable on Showdown under the category of Sw/Sh Singles, and still has people playing it. I was able to queue up and find a couple games last night.

What did happen is that Free-For-All is no longer an OM. We never really met the definition in the first place, and as a result a top-level decision was made to move us under the general umbrella of Pokemon Showdown rather than Other Metagames.

Alr

 

[Darvin]

As some of you may be aware, Free-For-All will be basing its initial banlist off of OU's banlist. Because our format has not yet launched, we are now re-evaluating our initial banlist in light of the new OU bans. We discussed each of the three recent bans and whether we wanted to include them in our own initial banlist.

You can see the results of the vote here

Annihilape
The nature of Free-For-All makes Rage Fist even more dangerous in our format than it is in OU. With three opponents on the field it is much more difficult to pivot around, and much more likely that the Rage Fist user will take a small amount of damage. Even if you personally do not make the attacks, you might still have to deal with a high BP Rage Fist if another opponent did. Options to check Annihilape are severely limited, and many team compositions will either need to accept a crippling weakness to Rage Fist or run Farigiraf (which seems to be the only Pokemon in the dex capable of checking Rage Fist defensively once it reaches maximum power). The council has serious concerns that even Primeape may be too much for Free-For-All to handle, much less Annihilape.

After some discussion, we came to the agreement that mirroring OU and banning Annihilape is the best decision for our initial banlist. We can then test Rage Fist Primeape in isolation. If it proves to be too much for the format, we will conclude that Rage Fist itself is unsuitable for Free-For-All and ban it. Should Rage Fist be banned, Annihilape will be unbanned.

Annihilape will be added to the initial Generation 9 Free-For-All banlist

Chi-Yu
Chi-Yu's Beads of Ruin ability is potentially even more dangerous in Free-For-All than it is in OU. Beads of Ruin doesn't just lower your special defense stat when Chi-Yu attacks you, but also when another opponent's special attack hits you. This means Chi-Yu is not only very dangerous in its own right, but increases the general level of offense on the field with its presence. However, Chi-Yu has problems going for it. It has insubstantial physical bulk, a Stealth Rock weakness in a format with very limited options for reliable hazard control, and no reliable recovery. This limits how often it can stay on the field to do its job consistently. In a format where most Pokemon under base 100 speed are running significant bulk investment, it's going to have a bit more trouble wallbreaking than it does in OU.

We saw many threatening Pokemon in generation 8 Free-For-All that failed to live up to their hypothetical power level, often being too prediction-heavy or too frail to put in consistent long-term work. We feel that Chi-Yu deserves a fair chance at being tried in Free-For-All. The vote on this Pokemon was very close, with multiple voters being vocally on the fence. If it does prove to be problematic in our format, we will not hesitate to have a re-vote on the matter.

Chi-Yu will not be added to the initial Generation 9 Free-For-All banlist

Cyclizar
The council is skeptical that Cyclizar will be banworthy in Free-For-All. A free turn in Free-For-All is much harder to translate into a KO than it is in OU, and on its own it won't win an entire match. In the chaos of Free-For-All with four players pivoting around each other's threats, free turns happen with a great deal of regularity. All four teams can expect to get multiple free turns across the course of a FFA match. This makes Cyclizar much less problematic, since the circumstances Shed Tail can create are not out of line with the kinds of circumstances that can come up organically in Free-For-All. As a result we don't feel that its oppressive qualities in OU will necessarily translate into Free-For-All and a quickban is not justified.

Cyclizar will not be added to the initial Generation 9 Free-For-All banlist

 

[ArtfulNova]

It comes down to the developers and their time availability. I don't want to rush/bother them, either, as I know they're quite busy.

In the meantime, you can go to the FFA Discord where people are setting up custom challenge matches of Gen 8 FFA with Gen 9 Pokemon.

any updates on Gen 9 FFAs being a thing?

 

[Imbion]

any updates on Gen 9 FFAs being a thing?

We haven't received any updates on the implementation yet.

There's a psuedo gen 9 FFA playable through a custom challenge, as Darvin mentioned earlier in the thread. The main difference is that Terrastall can't be used, abilities/moves that were updated retroactively will still retain their old properties (i.e. Snow Warning still summons hail, recovery moves still have 16PP), and a few cases of odd incompatibilities (Auroa Veil fails in snow).

Here's the challenge code for playing the format with the bans we've implemented so far. If you just want to play without the bans we've currently implemented, cut off all of the extra additions after +past.

/challenge insertnamehere, gen8freeforall @@@ +future, !Obtainable, +past,  -spicy extract,  -toxic, -toxic spikes, -toxic debris, -poison fang, -annihilape, -flutter mane, -houndstone, -koraidon, -iron bundle, -miraidon, -palafin

 

[Darvin]

Generation 9 Free-For-All is now available!

Actually it's been available for a few days now, and we've been having a great time. Come and join in on the fun!

Of course, I have other updates to share with everyone. Let's talk about them:

Revisiting Move Bans
The Free-For-All council was asked to revisit some of our move bans. Smogon discourages move bans, preferring bans of Pokemon. This is for good reason, as moves do not exist in isolation and are only meaningful in the context of the Pokemon that gets access to them. There are countless threads in Policy Review that delve into this issue in far more detail than I can get into here, but suffice to say that I and the Free-For-All council agree with this. Move bans are for exceptional circumstances.

Looking at the moves we were asked to revisit:

Follow Me

Follow Me: with the Generation 9 Dex, there are only three legal users of the move. We were asked to revisit this ban in light of its low distribution. However, the move is functionally identical to Rage Powder and the differences will not usually be relevant. We agreed that it made no sense to unban Follow Me while leaving Rage Powder banned, which raises the pool of affected Pokemon to 11 fully-evolved species. By and large, the issues with the move remain the same as they were in generation 8. The move has no legitimate utility and there's really no circumstance you would want your own Pokemon to become the center of attention and target of everyone's attacks. The move is strictly used by trolls to be disruptive and degrade the enjoyability and fairness of the match for everyone else. While we can't eliminate trolling completely, we can at least take away their most obnoxious tools.

The council voted 3-2 to maintain our current ban

Court Charge

Court Change: this is an exclusive move to Cinderace, and by and large exclusive moves should not be banned and instead the Pokemon themselves should be (see Houndstone and Last Respects). The issue here is that Court Change is not banned for any balance reasons, but rather due to implementation ambiguity. In the official Pokemon games, Court Change has never existed in a game that allows for more than 2 fields to exist at a time. There is no precedent for how it should "swap" the field effects when there are 4 different fields. While a speculative implementation was created for generation 8 so the move was usable, this proved unclear and confusing to players. There was no documentation on this move through tools like the DT command or through commonly-used websites like Smogon or Bulbapedia. The only place you would find documentation on how it worked was in the Smogon forums. This was simply not an acceptable situation, and we decided that the most prudent course of action was to ban the move rather than tinker with speculative implementations.

We've asked for an exception to the normal policy given the unusual circumstances surrounding this move. If Court Change is ever given an official implementation in an actual Pokemon game that supports 4 different fields, we will ask for that to be implemented and unban it. But until that day, we deem this move should not be available in our format as it has no clear precedent on how it should work. It would be a shame for Cinderace to be banned over what is essentially an implementation technicality.

Spicy Extract

Spicy Extract: this move was automatically banned at the start of the generation without a vote. The Free-For-All format has a blanket ban on all moves which can boost the stats of an opponent's Pokemon. This ban exists for good reason, as they are very disruptive and almost exclusively used as trolling moves. While there are theoretically some gimmicks that can make boosting an opponent's stats worthwhile, they are highly inconsistent and introduce a substantial amount of volatility to the match. Similar to Baton Pass, it allows Pokemon that cannot otherwise boost their stats to receive stat boosts, potentially repeatedly while they are actively applying pressure. Even if the user of the stat-boosting move isn't trying to troll, it still creates situations that cannot be prepared for in a format that is already difficult to prepare for. These moves have a massively negative effect on the enjoyability and fairness of the format, and are banned universally without exception for good reason.

We have asked if our move bans in this category can be converted into a clause, as in many ways this is similar to the OHKO clause. These are all fundamentally similar moves that are banned for the same reason irrespective of what Pokemon has access to them. We are hoping that this situation can be resolved without having to ban Scovillain, but if we are instructed to follow Smogon policy we will ban Scovillain rather than allow any such moves into Free-For-All.

Watch List
We're keeping our eyes on a number of things right now that we see as potential problems. We're not ready to hold any votes yet, but we're definitely aware of some of the issues. There are a few things we were watching that have failed to materialize as serious problems. Terastallization so far has proven less problematic than expected, and if it is an issue it's only in conjunction with specific threats that can abuse it that can be banned individually. Glimmora's Mortal Spin is not nearly as hard to handle as feared and its lack of reliable recovery has proven a major impediment to it staying on the field and maintaining long-term pressure. Moreover, the lack of Toxic has not shown any negative repercussions as regular Poison, Burn, and Paralysis are all being used to fill the niche. If anything, this is a huge improvement on balance over generation 8 where Toxic and Toxic Spikes were unrestricted, and seeing it in action I'm regretting not having pulled the trigger on a Toxic vote in generation 8. With that said, these are the issues jumping out at us right now:

Dondozo has the coveted Unaware ability, which is exceptionally useful in a format where it's not always feasible to prevent setup and it's well worthwhile to have a good fallback. The problem we've found is that Dondozo itself often has easy opportunities to set up Curse, which can lead to uneventful Dondozo mirrors where everyone has their Dondozo on the field. While it's possible that the metagame will stabilize in such a way that well-built teams have good ways to handle Dondozo, as it stands right now this is not a healthy situation. Here is a good replay showing the problem.

Chien-Pao is currently being suspect tested in OU and was always a Pokemon to watch in our format. However, fast and frail Pokemon tend not to do as well in Free-For-All than in singles. Chien-Pao is no exception, and has to be played very carefully to put in work. However, the support tools to make it work definitely exist and its access to Recover is actually very valuable in Free-For-All where it doesn't need full speed investment and can actually invest in bulk. Its offensive presence is highly dangerous, but it's unclear whether it represents a threat level that goes too far.

Chi-Yu is already banned in OU, and much like Chien Pao represents a massive threat that is difficult to handle. At the same time, its bulk is passable and it lacks reliable recovery. This makes it have a harder time in this format than it does in OU. Again, it's too early to make a call on this one but it's on our radar.

Primeape is looking like a major metagame threat, but not necessarily broken. It needs to be played carefully to avoid losing its Eviolite, but it can easily rack up small amounts of chip damage throughout the match to have massively powerful Rage Fists in the end-game. Its Drain Punches are significantly weaker than other comparable Pokemon, and it needs a lot of Bulk Ups to really go insane. However, it's definitely not something to underestimate as you can't stop other players from making the mistake of attacking into it, and may be stuck paying the price for the carelessness of your other opponents. We'll continue watching it, but if my current experience proves to be representative then it's unlikely to be banned.

Hazard Control is proving to be as problematic as expected, in that Corviknight is really the only good hazard control. People are experimenting with Cyclizar, Avalugg, and Altaria because the pickings are so slim. In Free-For-All, all three opponents are potentially trying to set hazards against you which means it's hard if not impossible to prevent hazard setup with offensive pressure, and your hazard control needs to be able to come in repeatedly throughout the match and outlast three teams work of setters in order to keep hazards off your field. That's a tall order, and requires incredible defensive qualities on any candidate hazard control Pokemon. Corviknight is largely in a class of its own in the generation 9 dex, and nothing else is really delivering.

Other Observations
There are other things we've noticed that aren't necessarily problems but are definitely noteworthy. One is that Wish has become much less prominent in the metagame. Where in generation 8 I'd say around 90% of good teams ran a Wish user, in generation 9 it's much more optional. Rest is a much more reliable answer for keeping Pokemon who lack reliable recovery healthy. Alomomola is practically a disappointment, as it often compounds electric weakness with the obligatory Corviknight. Umbreon and Sylveon seem to be our premier wish passers. Umbreon has lost both Toxic and Heal Bell, but Taunt slots in perfectly as a suitable utility replacement in the final move slot. Sylveon used to be outclassed by Clefable, but Clefable isn't in the dex. If you want to run Wish to keep offensive Pokemon healthy, these two seem to be your best options.

As expected, Cyclizar has not proven to be a problem at all. It's definitely a threat that needs to be respected, but Shed Tail can be played around and with only regenerator for recovery it can struggle to stay healthy if it uses Shed Tail too liberally. With the lack of hazard control in this format, a Rapid Spin user with Regenerator is very welcome even if its bulk is lacking. Overall, this is looking like a very interesting Pokemon in our format with lots of great qualities and some big question points. I like it.

The format being listed under SV singles has done wonders for our visibility, and we've felt the influx of players who are trying out our format and giving it a much larger and robust userbase. While SS Free-For-All never died (despite some reports to the contrary, there were players playing it right up to the last day. I know, I was one of them), we certainly could have long wait times to find a match given that four players were necessary. It looks like we currently have the critical mass of players during most hours that finding a match takes a very reasonable amount of time. This is great, and I'm hoping that it will lead to a livelier scene for our format this generation!

And I'll stop there before this becomes a stream of consciousness. I hope this gets everyone up to speed on where Free-For-All stands right now, what the council is talking about and has our eyes on, and I'll update everyone again when we have more to talk about. Good luck and have fun in your matches!

 

[Nuclearstomp]

I wanted to give my personal opinions on all the mentioned points.

Dodonzo: is not entirely unbeatable, but it's ability to sit on the field and ignore everything makes it way too good at outlasting every other Pokemon. 2+ Dodonzo face offs are awful because each Dodonzo becomes entirely unable to kill each other, turning it into a game of either constantly switching out or PP stalling. Meanwhile everything on the field has to pray the Dodonzo doesn't sit in and wipe them out. I feel like Dodonzo's defensive pressure is just as over the top as it's offensive pressure and it's a bit too much.

Chien Pao: I have had zero issues with Chien Pao because all of my teams have a fighting + steel type and Corviknight. I could totally see it being an issue but I feel it's not as big of an issue as Chi-Yu.

Chi-Yu: This mon sucks, and by sucks I mean it sucks for you if your opponent has one. It's typing makes it easier to keep in than Chien Pao, and the good mons in the metagame are more susceptible too it (imo). One of the biggest issues with Chi-Yu is the decent speed means you can't keep certain Pokemon like Corviknight in against it, so you HAVE to switch out. This mon can put major dents in each team before going down, especially with hazard or sun support. A sun boosted flamethrower almost 2 shot my max HP/ SP Def Florges. It's ability to pick off Pokemon with little to no support is too much, and barely anything can switch in without getting two-shot.

Primeape: I've never gotten to see a Primeape actually hit the field yet because every game I've seen it in team preview I've left early for whatever reason.

Hazard Control: Having to use Corviknight or be stuck with something subpar really sucks. I've felt like this generation has funneled a few Pokemon into being constant picks for teams but this is probably the worst it gets. I'm not sure what a good solution for this is since banning hazard setters seems like a slippery slope and banning the remaining hazards seems controversial. This is not to say that all hazard control is bad, I saw someone using Altaria and it seemed alright, but Corviknight is very obviously the best choice in my opinion.

Follow Me, Spicy Extract, Court Change: All banned for obvious reasons. Spicy Extract and Follow Me are banned for promoting uncompetitive / unhealthy play and we don't know how Court Change works. These were all good calls.

One thing not mentioned that I think should be on the watchlist is Revival Blessing. Reviving your Pokemon at 50% HP seems like a massive detriment but the thing is it's easy to get multiple off during a round. It's also not hard to keep your revival blessing users in back until late game, especially against passive teams or ones with limited recovery, and then spam out revival blessings to get powerful mons back into the fray which will then easily handle 1v1ing all the weakened teams that only have 2-3 Pokemon left.

I've had a game or two where revival blessing would've easily won the game had my opponent not selected the wrong Pokemon. Revival Blessing is also very good at keeping a team full of Pokemon when the other ones start dwindling, and it's easy to bring back core mons that can no longer be properly checked by remaining ones (like bringing back Blissey or even Dodonzo after their counters or checks are removed.) Maybe this is all simply a bad experience with Revival Blessing on ladder but I think it deserves to have an eye kept on it.

There are other Pokemon I think have the potential to be too strong, like Garganacl which I have been using. Salt Cure in Combination with Iron Defense, Body Press, Recover and its other options is really strong and seems hard to properly deal with but I would have to play more FFA to get a better opinion on it.

 

[ihbst]

i think that first thoughts toxapex will be strong again this generation, as regenerator is more useful than ever when healing moves have low pp.every teams need multiple dark resist as the chiyu and chienpao are not banned. I think the metagame will lean toward bulky teams

 

[ihbst]

also why is toxic poison, final gambit banned? Final gambit is a good move in certain cases, and it doesn't promote uncompetitiveness. Shuckle likes to use the move on its standard set, and explosion/memento isn't banned so it's confusing. Final gambit doesn't deserve the ban hammer. I dont think toxic poison is broken, as toxic/poison fang are single target and take multiple turns to rack up damage. I can sorta understand tspikes and toxic debris, as it cripples everyone else on the field.

 

[Darvin]

Toxapex was one of the most metagame-defining Pokemon in Generation 8 Free-For-All. It was very difficult to KO, was an efficient item-remover with Knock Off, stopped setup sweepers with Haze, incessantly set up Toxic Spikes, and could easily come in to clear Toxic Spikes off of your side of the field. Almost all of that was lost in generation 9 and Toxapex only has its bulk and Haze going for it. It also lost access to Spite, which means its trapper set is now completely passive and relies on other players to get the KO after it traps something. Toxapex has been left completely passive and does little else other than survive. It also faces steep competition with newcomer Clodsire, which has a similarly powerful defensive ability without the associated passivity and has been proving itself as a defensive cornerstone. Overall, Toxapex seems like it will be a much more niche selection and I don't see it reprising anything remotely close to its dominant role from last generation.

The PP nerf has been a very subtle change and not as major as one might think. Wish was spared the nerf, and other recovery moves rarely need more than 8 uses per match. It does mean you have to be a little more judicious with your usage, and there definitely is a change to player behavior because of this, but I've actually yet to see it come into play directly. And yes, this is going to be a very bulky metagame. Free-For-All always has been, and likely always will favor bulkier Pokemon. With that said, it seems that Generation 9 punishes passivity much more harshly than generation 8 did.

Final Gambit does indeed promote uncompetitiveness. I can understand the confusion, because if anything Final Gambit is a terrible move that is more likely to hurt your position than help it. The problem is its potential as a troll move, where your goal isn't to win but rather just to ruin the match for everyone else. It allows you to rapidly sacrifice the majority of your team to quickly rack up KO's on an opponent. There is very little counterplay to this, as Rock and Steel resistances do nothing and the move deals massive instantaneous damage. You either have a Ghost-type or Blissey/Chansey, or you're going to be taking several KO's in the first few turns of the game as your opponent clicks Final Gambit against you over and over again. The Final Gambit user quickly removes themselves from the game by KO'ing their own Pokemon, and cripples their victim in the process. In a conventional format if your opponent sacrifices their entire team and leaves you with only 2 or 3 Pokemon remaining you still win. In Free-For-All there are still two healthy teams, so you're basically out of the game and the troll has succeeded in ruining a Free-For-All match and turning it into a premature 1 on 1. Explosion and Memento don't have this problem. In fact, due to spread moves being weakened, Explosion is barely any stronger than Double Edge.

Toxic is banned because it's too centralizing and too big a constraint on team-building. Back in Generation 8 Free-For-All Toxic was so oppressive and metagame defining that running a Heal Bell or Aromatherapy user was straight up mandatory on most teams, but in Generation 9 these moves have been removed from the game. To give you an idea of how mandatory Heal Bell support was in generation 8, our sample team section had an offensive team that ran a Chansey. Yes, an offensive team had to run Chansey to not auto-lose to Toxic. Otherwise excellent Pokemon like Hippowdon, Vaporeon, or Buzzwole were ruined by Toxic, and it's nearly impossible to proactively dodge it with three opponents on the field and multiple threats to maneuver around. Being put on a timer is a serious problem, as offensive teams can't dictate the pace of the game like they can in singles. If you're on a timer and the other players are not, you're not going to force your way through 18 Pokemon before Toxic runs its course and leaves your team a broken shell. Now, it's entirely possible that Generation 9 would have stabilized around Pokemon with anti-status abilities (Gholdengo, Garganacl, Breloom, Blissey), Rest users, and Steel/Poison types, but this is far too much of a constraint on team-building.

With a week of experience in our newly Toxic-free Free-For-All, I'm very happy with the positive change we've seen from this ban. The other status conditions have largely filled the void vacated by Toxic; we're seeing a lot more usage of Thunder Wave and Will-o-wisp, and regular poison is still a very strong option. Sludge Bomb and Poison Jab are deadly moves with that 30% Poison chance. Overall this has been an incredibly positive change, and one I regret I didn't pull the trigger on in Generation 8. Toxic was oppressive last generation, but there was a lot of counterplay so I never held any vote to ban it. Seeing what an improvement a Toxic-free Free-For-All is, I regret not having done so earlier.

 

[wertiop1]

My friends found a work around the toxic ban, by using toxic orb trick.

 

[Nuclearstomp]

My friends found a work around the toxic ban, by using toxic orb trick.

Toxic Orb is intentionally not banned.. It's harder to poison everyone with it, you have to run it in place of a different item and it's possible to lose it for the entire battle. Plus you have to run it on a Pokemon immune Toxic otherwise you're going to end up crippling your own mon. So while it can be effective, it has plenty of downsides that make it harder to use than traditional Toxic, hence it not being banned.

 

[Darvin]

You can find our voting slate for the Toxic ban here. As you can see, the Toxic Orb approach was something we considered and voted on, and intentionally decided not to ban. This is usually going to be a once-per-match attack, so it can only cripple one Pokemon after which the threat is defused. This is very different from Toxic, which presents a long-term threat. In theory it's possible to Trick to get your orb back, but this is more complicated and inconsistent and once you've revealed your gimmick the element of surprise is lost and it's going to be harder to pull it off a second time. Overall, this is much more similar to Tricking a Choice Scarf. If anything, it's much harder to absorb a tricked scarf than it is to absorb a tricked Toxic Orb (as pretty much all teams will have a Poison or Steel-type that are unaffected by the orb).

As Nuclearstomp mentions, there are also much fewer Pokemon that actually get access to Trick or Switcheroo, and of those most are not immune to Poison. The only really good user of this combo is Gholdengo. I have seen people run Grafaiai, but it hasn't been very impressive.

Speaking of good Pokemon, we're not quite ready to do a viability ranking yet but I'm definitely starting to form opinions. This is my personal stance, it does not reflect the council as a whole, and it may change with more experience. A few things to note before I go into details, first consistency matters a lot so many very powerful things aren't ranked near the top because they aren't consistently able to utilize that power. Second, I've found that you really, really don't want to commit to terastallization at the team-builder level. You kinda need to keep your tera available to help handle unusual matchups, so any Pokemon that needs tera to function well is not going to be as great here. And lastly, it's worth remembering that in the chaos of Free-For-All anything can work if the stars align, good Pokemon are those that work consistently and in a broader range of circumstances.

Excellent
Blissey and Chansey are still really amazing special sponges, and if you don't have a pink blob on your team there is basically always going to be a point in the match where you wish you did.
newcoming Clodsire is definitely showing itself to be the best Spike setter in a Spike-centric metagame. Great defensive typing, amazing ability, wonderful bulk, and just enough offenses to not be passive.
Corviknight is basically the only good hazard control in the meta right now. It'd probably still be excellent even if it had competition, but as it stands it's basically mandatory on 95% of serious teams.
metagame defining, Dondozo is nearly impossible to move and with terastallization your "counter" may not be a counter. It serves as a check to a whole swath of dangerous physical threats.
Salt Cure is just such a consistent way to spread damage, and it has the defensie stats to stay on the field. It's the best Stealth Rocker in the meta, but also has Iron Defense Body Press and Block as options.
generation 9 has endowed us with not one or two, but three amazing Unaware users. Skeledirge isn't quite the fallback that Dondozo is, but it's more likely to spiral out of control with its own boosting thanks to Torch Song and isn't reliant on Rest for recovery. It can also run phasing.

Good
a superb regenerator. I'm actually running Assault Vest on this; it doesn't need Spore in this meta and it really appreciates the extra bulk. Plus it's really funny to use it as a Trick absorber.
as expected, Chi-Yu is a monstrous offensive presence that's difficult to handle, but struggles to stay healthy long-term and gets easily whittled down. It may still end up getting banned because its offensive pressure is just so hard to handle, but on the flipside it's very inconsistent and hard to fit on a team without compromising yourself in other ways.
a Pokemon for a gambler. Chien-Pao's terrible defensive typing and mediocre bulk make it really hard to use effectively, and it requires very careful prediction to put in work. It really wants to be your team's tera user, but it's all too common that it's going to go down in one turn if you mispredict. However, it's the biggest offensive threat in the format. Almost impossible to wall. Overall, this is a Pokemon of extremes that can either crush an opponent in a few turns... or just get KO'd and achieve nothing.
definitely a bit of a sleeper threat, as I haven't seen too many of them but they've always been very threatening when they hit the field. It has a bit of 4MSS as it really has to choose between Protect, hitting Dark-types, and hitting Steel-types, and depending on what's missing it has different problems. However, it's definitely a vicious win-condition and one you have to respect given that you don't know for sure what you need until you see its set.
this is just an awesome Pokemon. Gholdengo has both Recover and Nasty Plot with enough bulk to use it, and some pretty powerful moves. Make it Rain is actually a viable move, even with its power halved that's still a 60 BP move hitting all three players. With a couple Nasty Plots that's dangerous. Total immunity to status is amazing, and it has other set options like Thunder Wave and Trick Specs.
as an end-game ace in the hole, Kingambit is terrifying. The big problem it has is that it's predictable, it's obviously your win-condition so everyone is going to play accordingly. It also can't really dig you out of a hole if you go down too early. However, it really does have the power to close out games.
I was surprised to see this do so well in Free-For-All. The cat is really performing well, it matches up well against most of the meta and hits hard enough that even resists don't like coming in on it. Corviknight is losing its Leftovers to Knock Off so even it's not a free switch-in. It also has Taunt stallbreaker as an option.
the slow and bulky metagame of Free-For-All is perfect for Gallade. It outspeeds most of the meta with neutral 252 Speed investment, and is basically impossible to wall. It is very frail, however, and struggles to come in and put in work.
the bulk of Eviolite really does wonders for Primeape, and it can often come in and get a small amount of chip damage and then get out. Once its in position, it starts bulking up. However, its bulk isn't that amazing, and its Drain Punches aren't really that strong since it can't afford Attack investment. So it's proving to be a manageable threat.
are basically just here as Revival Blessing spammers. You're giving up a team slot to potentially revive 2 or (if you run Rest/Talk) more team members. They're pretty bad by their own merits, but they're not complete dead weight and can actually attack. Overall they are risky but they're much more than a gimmick.
are our premier Wish users. All three of them are performing excellently right now and I'm quite liking them. Scream Tail offers Stealth Rock for role compression, Sylveon is non-passive with its hard-hitting Moonblast (don't run Hyper Voice, you want a single-target move), and Umbreon offers the best overall defenses as Dark remains as great a defensive typing as it was in generation 8 Free-For-All, and it can slot in Taunt now that it's not needed for Heal Bell.

Decent
Perish Trap is probably better if anything in generation 9. While Tera Ghost does give an out, forcing a tera on its own can be very valuable and Altaria's mere presence on the field can be a huge pressure point as it's always threatening Fire Spin + Perish Song.
while it's not as good as I was hoping, Poison Heal Breloom is a very nice defensive piece that stays healthy easily and can really threaten the field. I'll probably end up taking it out of the forum thread header since it's not going to be metagame defining, but it's certainly not bad.
Bitter Blade is just such a nice move, 90 BP with recovery attached really keeps this offensive piece healthy for longer and keeping up pressure. Don't run Weak Armor, it makes Ceruledge so much easier to handle. Remember, in Free-For-All most teams will try to out-bulk you, not out-speed you.
another Pokemon that played out more or less as we expected. It's a serious threat, you have to respect Cyclizar and what it can set up. But it's not going to win the game on its own, the Pokemon is quite frail so you're making sacrifices in other respects to use it. It can work well as a backup hazard control, and Taunt is useful utility, but on its own it's pretty fragile and unremarkable.
the addition of Spikes has really made this slug dangerous. It's non-passive, has reliable recovery, and shuts down any Water-type attacks. The problem is that it has 4MSS and can't really carry everything it wants, and losing Scald was a big hit to it. Still, I think the addition of Spikes has been a positive change for it and I expect to see more of it this generation.
a surprising disappointment, Glimmora really struggles with its poor defensive typing and lack of reliable recovery. It just can't stay on the field long-term and Corrosion Mortal Spin and its high SpA really aren't enough to counterbalance that. It really wants you to use tera on it, but you really don't want to use tera on it. Overall it's a flawed but interesting Pokemon that will definitely have a place in the meta but not a high place.
if Hydreigon still had Roost, it would be at the top of the meta and very little would serve as a good answer. Without reliable recovery it gets worn down, and its amazing offensive qualities can't reach their full potential. It's still a good choice and I'm sure it will be viable in this meta.
held back by the lack of a good Poison STAB. It doesn't get Sludge Bomb, and Sludge Wave is a spread move so it hits individual opponents for relatively little damage. Still a devastating offensive force, but one that has its flaws.
unpredictable and hard-hitting, I quite like Iron Valiant but it falls into the trap of "fast but frail is not ideal in FFA"
It's a great Moxie sweeper that can spiral out of control by picking off a weak player and than snowballing a strong player in the end-game. Right now, though, it's held back by the fact that it's countered by both Dondozo and Skeledirge.
it's a weird set, but Jaw Lock Taunt with Shed Shell is a surprisingly workable trapper. With Shed Shell you can still switch out, so you can escape if things start going south and aren't forced to commit until you get the KO. Trapping and Taunting can be really good for removing defensive targets. With that said, its defensive typing isn't that great and it can't really trap Dondozo because Body Press does a number to it. Its conventional offensive sets kinda need to terastallize to be good, and in general you want to avoid locking into terastallization at the team-builder level.
there really aren't that many great options for handling Water/Electric STAB combination, Will-o-Wisp is kinda nasty with Heal Bell gone, it can stay health with Pain Split (I guess everyone I've seen using this has just gotten lucky and not needed reccovery, because apparently Rotom lost Pain Split), and it can still run Trick. A great balanced pivot that's hard to handle.
great at spreading paralysis while Knocking Off items. Gigaton Hammer hits hard, but you can't just presume that's what it's going for since its main role is Paralysis and Knock Off. It can also run Swords Dance, but there are better options. Main thing holding it back is lack of reliable recovery, but it has the bulk and typing to receive Wishes.
a dangerous sweeper, but it struggles to fit all the coverage it wants and all three Unaware users can potentially check it and it may require different terastallizations to beat them. Tera Grass can handle Dondozo just fine, but will lose to Skeledirge and Clodsire.
very defensive, good at staying on the field and just not being moved, but a bit too much on the passive side. I've found it often gets PP stalled out of Leech Seed at which point it kinda doesn't do anything. This goes double with Pressure Corviknight being on every good team, as that just eats through Leech Seed PP so quickly.

Disappointment
I had such high hopes for Alomomola, but without Knock Off or Scald it's just way too passive. Water is also not a particularly great defensive typing with everyone preparing for Dondozo, Salt Cure being thrown around everywhere, and Corviknight being the only good hazard control doubling down on electric weakness.

Not sure
I've yet to see too much of these Pokemon, but I feel they have too much potential to go unmentioned in this post.

has both Choice Band and Perish Trap (edit: lost Whirlpool, not an option anymore). Belly Drum probably isn't worth trying.
still lacks good physical STAB moves, so it's kinda forced to go special.
lost mots of its support options, but actually looks decent for Dragon Dance given that Kyurem-Black is no longer competing with it.
an amazing titan of gen 9 OU, but has trouble in this format due to its questionable special bulk, lack of of reliable recovery, and Close Combat/Headlong Rush causing problems with their defense drops. Can't do hazard control as it's not good at staying on the field for protracted periods of time.
amazing defenses, but does it offer anything over the competition? Needs more investigation.
hazard control options are very limited, and Spikes are definitely big in the meta so keeping them up by using a Spinner is a good idea. Avalugg is pretty much the only bulky option with reliable recovery, but that typing is bad.
surprisingly hard hitter, looks interesting
one of the best Pokemon in Generation 8 Free-For-All, it really got hurt by the removal of High Horsepower. However, Closide is doing just fine with Stomping Tantrum so Hippo should be fine with that too.
really strong wallbreaker, need to see more of it.
really nice regenerators with Future Sight. Chilly Reception is functionally Teleport which means Slowking still has its offensive pivot support option.
it has Unaware, and that alone makes it worth consideration.
has both guts and moxie and hits like a truck. Definitely needs investigation.

 

[zuloon]

IMO free for all is so boring without the randomness of Gen 8. Mainly because OU always boils down to the same pokemon.

I get not wanting random battles, but I think this mode would be more interesting where you were allowed one uber and had to have two UU pokemon or something.

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

IMO free for all is so boring without the randomness of Gen 8. Mainly because OU always boils down to the same pokemon.

I get not wanting random battles, but I think this mode would be more interesting where you were allowed one uber and had to have two UU pokemon or something.

Free-For-All Randbats will be added as soon as Doubles Randbats is made iirc, it uses the same sets as doubles. Doubles Randbats has been delayed until Home arrives.

 

[Nuclearstomp]

IMO free for all is so boring without the randomness of Gen 8. Mainly because OU always boils down to the same pokemon.

I get not wanting random battles, but I think this mode would be more interesting where you were allowed one uber and had to have two UU pokemon or something.

I don't really understand this? Gen 8 wasn't very random and FFA has nothing to do with OU. It's not an Ubers based tier and you can run non-OU Pokemon if you want, there's plenty that are good in their own right. None of this seems very relevant.

 

[Darvin]

IMO free for all is so boring without the randomness of Gen 8. Mainly because OU always boils down to the same pokemon.

I get not wanting random battles, but I think this mode would be more interesting where you were allowed one uber and had to have two UU pokemon or something.

I don't really understand this? Gen 8 wasn't very random and FFA has nothing to do with OU. It's not an Ubers based tier and you can run non-OU Pokemon if you want, there's plenty that are good in their own right. None of this seems very relevant.

There was both a Random Battle and Teambuilder version of Free-For-All in Generation 8. Each of you played one of those, but not the other. Hence your respective confusions.

These are different formats, as different as Random Battles Singles is from OU. I can't speak for if and when a Random Battle version of Generation 9 Free-For-All will be released. We have nothing to do with that here. If I was asked, I would happily enlist our council to produce sets, but I'd imagine they're just going to use the Random Doubles sets like XenonHero mentioned.

 

[Pharnapus]

Espathra my beloved
Espathra @ Leftovers
Ability: Opportunist
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam

Debated whether I wanted to go full stored power with speed boost or abuse opportunist, speed boost is great for instant pressure with stored power after a sub and opportunist can be good if you switch on a turn you know another player is going to try and set up on. Dazzling gleam other tera blast fairy because sometimes I tera another one of my pokemon. Much trickier to get going in this format compared to others considering you can have 3 people attacking you once they realise whats up but I'm a sucker for stored power pokemon gimmicks (memories of magearna and simpler times)