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Genesect

I do have a quick question... why the hell do I see so few people using Genesect on PS? I just spent like 4 hours straight laddering in order to test parashuffler Dnite and I only encountered 1 (and the idiot using him got it paralyzed breaking my Dragonite's sub, rendering it kind of useless). It must just be because the majority of the people on there don't realize it's released or something...

Anyway, Genesects baffling scaricity aside, I have to say one thing.

Haunter said:
That's a pretty poor argument. Hydreigon gets the same perfect neutral and super effective coverage with a vast special movepool: dragon pulse, dark pulse, earth power, fire blast, surf etc., while Haxorus just got access to superpower and aqua tail to complete its physical movesets and also get past its only true counter in BW: Skarmory.

I think you're overestimating Genosect a bit.
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Yeah but Hydreigon doesn't get a boost to one of its attack stats just by switching in now does it?

That's the key to what makes Genesect so damn dangerous. It basically gets to wear both choice specs/band and a scarf at the same time. Sure you don't always get the boost you want, but you do get it most of the time, and U-turn ensures it never lands itself in danger too hot to handle. And face it, that U-turn hurts. It takes volt-turn from annoying to devestating when it gains a Pokemon that isn't really afraid of anything and can fire off powerful U-turns with complete impunity (unlike Scizor, whose low speed means it has to just switch out sometimes).

Since I haven't seen it in action much yet I'm not going to make any calls as to JUST how powerful it is, but from what I've heard it's probably the best scarfer ever in the history of anything. While I'm not taking a stance yet, you just know this thing is going to be the subject of the next suspect round on reputation alone... I don't think anything other than ST Chandelure could possibly shake up the meta as much as Genesect is liable to here.

EDIT: @shurtugal I'd just like to quickly point out that 1480 on PS isn't really a big deal with the ladder structured the way it is right here. I just got over 1700 with a team I threw together in around 20 minutes in order to test parashuffler dnite, and I honestly don't think the main reason for that is that I'm a 1337 awesome battler so much as that most of the people I got matched up with kinda sucked. So while I agree with you that CB Genesect is not a gimmick, I think you'll have better luck with a different argument in order to prove your point.
 
Scizor IMO does the job better. Better physical move pool, attack, bulk, roost, swords dance, priority, baton pass, ect... Genesect has speed, can go mixed, and sure with a download boost(that's way too situational) it has superior attack. So if you want a fast, frail, scizor with t-bolt, be my guest. It's all up to the user, but imo you shouldn't be making it do something that scizor can already do(albeit better).
 
superbadd said:
Scizor IMO does the job better. Better physical move pool, attack, bulk, roost, swords dance, priority, baton pass, ect... Genesect has speed, can go mixed, and sure with a download boost(that's way too situational) it has superior attack. So if you want a fast, frail, scizor with t-bolt, be my guest. It's all up to the user, but imo you shouldn't be making it do something that scizor can already do(albeit better).
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actually genosect is more bulky over all with only a slightly less physical bulk
 
superbadd said:
Scizor IMO does the job better. Better physical move pool, attack, bulk, roost, swords dance, ect... Genesect has speed, can go mixed, and sure with a download boost(that's way too situational) it has superior attack. So if you want a fast, frail, scizor with t-bolt, be my guest. It's all up to the user, but imo you shouldn't be making it do something that scizor can already do.
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As Jimera0 kindly pointed out: "It basically gets to wear both choice specs/band and a scarf at the same time. Sure you don't always get the boost you want, but you do get it most of the time, and U-turn ensures it never lands itself in danger too hot to handle. And face it, that U-turn hurts. It takes volt-turn from annoying to devestating when it gains a Pokemon that isn't really afraid of anything and can fire off powerful U-turns with complete impunity (unlike Scizor, whose low speed means it has to just switch out sometimes)."

^ This. It can wear specs and band, and also scarf. It has better speed, outspeeds Celebi (which Scizor doesn't without a scarf... further loss of power). It gets faster U-turn, with or without a scarf. Furthermore, it gets a download boost (which you pointed out). Its mixed coverage can benefit from +1 on the special side as well. Not to mention that some players who find CB not viable may think that the powerful U-turns are only invested attack and not the CB itself. Also, can Scizor explode? It can do what Scizor can do, its just a bit different. Just because Scizor can do this role, does NOT mean that CB Gene isn't viable, which your trying to imply.
 
Genesect, the gayest Pokemon ever.

Genesect in my opinion is one of those Pokemon that you love to use, but hate to face. Genesect has multiple options run, the most predominant being the Choice Scarf, thanks to it's powerful U-Turn, good coverage moves, and resistances to most priority it can become an all ends to most set up threats, as long as it can outrun it or is at high enough HP, it can beat it. I have been trying Genesect out in all types of weather, Sun, Sand, Rain, and even Hail. The bonus to Genesect is that typically he can cover some weaknesses and fits on almost all types of offensive teams that need a revenge killer. At the time, Genesect is truly a monster.

However the most dangerous thing in Genesect is not versatility, stats, or even it's art ( I like the design of it ), it is it's coverage. More often than not I have come to situations where Genesect comes in and threatens to force out one of my Pokes due to the great possibility of coverage it has. This is my real problem with Genesect, but the blessing part of facing Genesect is that typically people only run Choice Scarf sets at the moment, mixxed in with occasional Life Orb / Expert Belt ( I haven't seen many RP versions as of yet ). With hazards up Genesect gets worn down and eradicated more easily, which is just another reason why hazards are so important.

But on to what I actually think of the bug beast, I believe it's gonna stay for awhile as it doesn't seem broken, and it truly is a godsend of offensive teams. It can revenge basically everything, unlike some other Scarfers commonly used.
 
Backing up Shurt in this argument; Scizor has Tech'd BP, Pursuit, and Superpower, Gene has Explosion, one of Tbolt, Ice Beam, or Flamethrower, more speed, can hit harder, etc.

Gene can honestly do whatever it wants to; you can EV Scarf Sect in just about any way you like, use whatever gimmicks you like on Gene and it seems it can STILL function.
 
I just took this thing on in rain and despite picking up the in, it annoyed the shit out of me. I believe it was scarfed, as it everything outsped I put in front of it. This things going to be scary once people realize it's versatility
 
malomyotismon said:
he was considered for banning on the dw server, if that dose not say he really means business then i don't know what dose, but everything catters to the main threat at the time, if jirachi is having trouble with genosect it will try to counter him if he really is an issue.
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As Tobes pointed out, you're wrong. It was never considered for banning on Smogon. We don't care about what other servers do.

and as i said unlike hydrigeon or haxy he is top 10 he is a common threat, obviously that means your more likely to come across him and obviously that means he should be prioritised more.
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Wrong again. Sum Haxorus' and Hydreigon's usage percentages and you get a virtual Pokemon with over 13% of usage (also, theoretically you might face both on the same team). That means that you have as many possibilities of facing either of them as those of facing things like Tyranitar or Gliscor which, according to the last server stats, are 9th and 8th in usage respectively. You probably get the point.

Jimera0 said:
Yeah but Hydreigon doesn't get a boost to one of its attack stats just by switching in now does it?
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You're ignoring the fact that:
1) you don't usually get to decide what stats you're gonna boost and, as others have pointed out, it's not impossible to tweak your EVs so that Gene doesn't get the SpA boost in most cases;
2) Hydreigon gets dragon stab, which makes it hit has hard as a +1 Genesect unless it's hitting for SE damage or with bug buzz of course (and that's ignoring Hydreigon slightly higher SpA).

That's the key to what makes Genesect so damn dangerous. It basically gets to wear both choice specs/band and a scarf at the same time. Sure you don't always get the boost you want, but you do get it most of the time, and U-turn ensures it never lands itself in danger too hot to handle. And face it, that U-turn hurts. It takes volt-turn from annoying to devestating when it gains a Pokemon that isn't really afraid of anything and can fire off powerful U-turns with complete impunity (unlike Scizor, whose low speed means it has to just switch out sometimes).
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Yeah sure, stab uturn, download and decent defensive typing and speed is great but I laugh when I see people screaming that Genesect will twist the tier, cause it's not going to. As Ojama pointed out, there are way scarier threats in the current meta.
 
Haunter said:
As Tobes pointed out, you're wrong. It was never considered for banning on Smogon. We don't care about what other servers do.

Wrong again. Sum Haxorus' and Hydreigon's usage percentages and you get a virtual Pokemon with over 13% of usage (also, theoretically you might face both on the same team). That means that you have as many possibilities of facing either of them as those of facing things like Tyranitar or Gliscor which, according to the last server stats, are 9th and 8th in usage respectively. You probably get the point.


You're ignoring the fact that:
1) you don't usually get to decide what stats you're gonna boost and, as others have pointed out, it's not impossible to tweak your EVs so that Gene doesn't get the SpA boost in most cases;
2) Hydreigon gets dragon stab, which makes it hit has hard as a +1 Genesect unless it's hitting for SE damage or with bug buzz of course (and that's ignoring Hydreigon slightly higher SpA).

Yeah sure, stab uturn, download and decent defensive typing and speed is great but I laugh when I see people screaming that Genesect will twist the tier, cause it's not going to. As Ojama pointed out, there are way scarier threats in the current meta.
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no my point still stands, if genosect really is threating jirachi and pals, they will addapt to fight him if it's worth while.
 
No it doesn't. Your point ignores the fact that both Hydreigon and Haxorus can both threaten Jirachi with fire blast and earthquake respectively, but still Jirachi rarely if ever runs max Spe. Your whole argument is based on the arbitrary assumption that Genesect is threatening to the degree where it forces people to twist their teams in order to counter it. Anyway, since you keep repeating the same thing without providing actual arguments, I'm done arguing with you.
 
Haunter said:
No it doesn't. Your point ignores the fact that both Hydreigon and Haxorus can both threaten Jirachi with fire blast and earthquake respectively, but still Jirachi rarely if ever runs max Spe. Your whole argument is based on the arbitrary assumption that Genesect is threatening to the degree where it forces people to twist their teams in order to counter it. Anyway, since you keep repeating the same thing without providing actual arguments, I'm done arguing with you.
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please note i am saying if, implying i am not stating for a fact genesect is threatening enough to force rachi to run max speed, i am saying he might but only if the benifits out wiegh the costs i am not arguing anything definate.
 
And I'm just saying that even your only prospective statement is arbitrary, as there are precedents within the metagame that make it unlikely that Genesect will force such a major metagame shift, like the one you're foreseeing. That's all.
 
Haunter said:
And I'm just saying that even your only prospective statement is arbitrary, as there are precedents within the metagame that make it unlikely that Genesect will force such a major metagame shift, like the one you're foreseeing. That's all.
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fair enough, i would hope not too, i do not wish him banned he is just the key for solving every single team of mines problems with his choice scarf set he has the coverage and power that i need to deal with thing's to a t.
 
I feel I should address the CB Genesect issue, since I'm the QC person who approved it (to which Shurtugal referred). I'm not the world's greatest player and me QC approving CB Genesect does not make it good with no justification.

Firstly, for those of you that haven't looked at the Genesect thread in C&C, the best CB Genesect is not quite the one people are referring to here. For starters, Iron Head is virtually useless, such that it probably isn't even going to appear on the set when it goes on site (assuming it does). It offers practically no coverage over U-turn that will not be covered by Genesect's other moves.

The moveset I actually use is: U-turn / Zen Headbutt / Flamethrower / Ice Beam or Explosion. Yes, Explosion is not a given either. The power of Zen Headbutt is really not to be underestimated. With an attack boost, it has the power to OHKO virtually every Fighting and Poison-type, and frail Fire types like Volcarona and Ninetales. That includes Keldeo, Conkeldurr, Tentacruel, Lucario, Terrakion (you don't need Iron Head, therefore) and Infernape. The last two moves cover steels such as Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Genesect etc. and Gliscor, Landorus-T, Landorus-I, Dragonite, Salamence etc. Everything that doesn't take a really big chunk of damage from U-turn is well covered except for Heatran.

Bearing that in mind, I should now explain why CB Genesect is a good set. For starters, I'm definitely not saying it's better than Choice Scarf and Expert Belt Genesect, because it isn't. What it is, though, is sufficiently different, and quite clearly viable. It beats Special walls, and really punishes the opponent without you needing to predict (guess) much at all. That U-turn is just absurdly powerful, and you use it virtually all the time. It clearly has numerous advantages over Choice Band Scizor: Speed, power and COVERAGE at the expense of Bullet Punch. Yes, it has a terrible physical movepool, but its coverage absolutely blows Scizor's out of the water. Its only good switchin is, as ever, Heatran. Until Genesect came along I never wished Scizor had Zen Headbutt but I do now.

It's also worth noting that people are deliberately giving Genesect attack boosts. I get attack boosts most of the time, and I'm going to make my opponent pay for that.
 
Ive seen genesect a bit on ps ladder and po.It seemed to work best in a lead spot with that amazing coverage and u turn choice scarfed.I think it will at least a suspect at some point because is it a fast powerful sweeper and download might just push it over the broken line.The only way i can see it surviving is an anti metagame effect where a team is very prepared for it

Scizor is such a good pokemon and this thing is a Specail attacking scizor with more speed with a possible free choice specs if you switch in smartly.Also with rain being so common it can take a non stab fire move.Its not far off thundurus in my opinion.

Also with a viable phisical set emerging switching in the wrong wall to take the hit could be very costly.Reminds a bit of mence back in 4th gen because one misprediction your in for a world of hurt

Also does anybody think a mix set would be viable with LO ???
 
i'm pretty new at pokemon but why is scarf gene given max speed or anything close to it? hitting 300 lets you outspeed +1 neutral mence and volc and gives you a chunky 100 evs to put into attack, which counts for a whole lot more when you consider attack download boosts

the only thing i can see is tying with opposing genesects but it seems like a suboptimal spread just to hope to win a coin flip
 
the only thing i can see is tying with opposing genesects but it seems like a suboptimal spread just to hope to win a coin flip
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yes and the idea of a coin flip is why Mence was so awsome in 4th gen.This unpredictability makes it such a Hard hitting threat.I know versitility =/= good but raw power does with a mixed set it wouldn't matter what boost ya got you ould grape things in the mouth
 
I'm pretty surprised that Focus Sash Genesect has received so little discussion, as it's really a great set. Bluffing a Choice Scarf at the very beginning of the battle with Genesect vs. Genesect matchups is great because you get a free KO or momentum if you need to switch out. While this is more of a Dream World set because of how common Genesect is in the metagame, it's still extremely effective, especially when the opponent has a Pokemon that's weak to one of Genesects coverage moves and attempts to OHKO it (e.g. Naive Choice Scarf Salamence using Fire Blast because it is supposed to OHKO Genesect and not get outpaced but it gets KOed with Ice Beam, etc). Obviously this set requires Rapid Spin support if you intend to bring Genesect in later on after hazards are up, though in theory I guess you could always let offensive momentum carry you and never give the opponent a chance to set up Stealth Rock. If you're wondering the set is:

680.png

Genesect @ Focus Sash | Download
Naive | 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- U-turn
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

It's a pretty decent alternative to Life Orb or Expert Belt because while you lose power, you get the jump on a ton of opponents.

Also I'm interested in seeing whether using Explosion on the Choice Scarf set (after gaining an Attack boost) is worth it, as it could bail you out of a lot of situations and it gives you momentum at the end of the turn as well. It's definitely something I want to test out.

I think someone brought up the idea of using Genesect on a sun team, and this seems to be a pretty cool fit, because even if the 4x weakness is exacerbated to 8x, people still use Forretress on sun teams. In particular, Genesect lures out Heatran, who's definitely a threat to all sun teams, and Dugtrio can come in after the U-turn to clean up the mess. If the opponent is smart and preserves Heatran, then he or she is also letting whatever Pokemon is against Genesect lose a ton of HP. This would really help for teams that want to use Roost Volcarona because they no longer need to worry about Heatran walling their main sweeper. While the core has zero defensive synergy, I can't really think of a sun team that's really had to defend because of the momentum they bring.

Anyways I want to test a lot of ideas on the ladder that Genesect has given me because even if I hate this metagame, I'm gonna have to play it eventually.
 
I have to say that Genesect + Rotom-W + Dugtrio makes a potent offensive combination. Genesect makes a fantastic lure for heatran and magnezone, and if you can predict the switch in you can pop their balloon with U-turn and leave them helpless as dugtrio eliminates them.
 
Genesect is one the foremost threats because of its massive coverage, great typing, and its ability. With its release, I expect scizor's usage to fall because Genesect+Breloom fill many of Scizor's niches now. It can pursuit and bp though. I'm also going to try a Hone claws LO set, I'm thinking Hone claws/X-scissor/Iron head/Zen Headbutt. The last lot has other options, its just depends on what you want to it decimate. I think Thunder is a good option there a few other moves, but not really noting. Genesect might be able to be used as a bulky pivot (71/95/95 defenses are pretty decent). I'd give it quite a bit of special defense, and it does a few support moves, but scizor has roost, so it has much less longevity
 
STEELDRAGON said:
Genesect is one the foremost threats because of its massive coverage, great typing, and its ability. With its release, I expect scizor's usage to fall because Genesect+Breloom fill many of Scizor's niches now. It can pursuit and bp though. I'm also going to try a Hone claws LO set, I'm thinking Hone claws/X-scissor/Iron head/Zen Headbutt. The last lot has other options, its just depends on what you want to it decimate. I think Thunder is a good option there a few other moves, but not really noting. Genesect might be able to be used as a bulky pivot (71/95/95 defenses are pretty decent). I'd give it quite a bit of special defense, and it does a few support moves, but scizor has roost, so it has much less longevity
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those defences rival scizors, more specially bulky for the small deacrease in defence
 
Volt-Turn is probably going to make a big comeback. Just spammed a team with Genesect/Scizor/Landorus/Rotom + Blissey for wishes and Espeon to keep hazards away and it was a walkover. Scarfed Genesect made so many good switches powerful and just when they think you're gonna U-turn again.....BAM. Flamethrower up the ass of their Ferrothorn.

It's ridiculously fun.
 
I've already seen teams that utilise Gothitelle and Genesect. If Genesect U-turns out from something like Ferrothorn, Gothitelle can trap it and kill it with HP Fire. This would then allow something like Kingdra to have easy times beating the rest of their team. Very effective trapper duo indeed.
 
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