Gengar (Toxic Orb) [QC 0/3]

ShortsTheory

ShortsTheory

This is my first contribution to smogon, so I hope that I've got something useful to share.

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[SET]
name: OrbGar
move 1: Trick
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Shadow Ball/Venoshock
move 4: HP Fire/Focus Blast
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252Spe
(IVs for HP Fire if needed, otherwise 31 in all, except for Attack)

[SET COMMENTS]

1)Trick works well on Gengar, thanks to its vast movepool, speed, and unpredictability.
2)Toxic orb cannot poison Gengar, as it is poison typed itself. Gengar can also bluff a choice item with this set.
3)Can totally wall Chansey and Blissey thanks to Taunt (Chansey/Blissey cannot heal themselves by Natural Cure either)
4)Venoshock has 195 BP after an opponent being poisoned with STAB.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

5)EVs are for Gengar to hit max speed to take out Timid Latios
6)This set requires a good amount of prediction, if Steels switch in on Trick, they'll only lose their item.
7)Hence, HP Fire is used to get most steels running for cover.
8)Focus Blast and SB has excellent 2-move coverage, and Venoshock has insane power.
9)This set is vulnerable to Tyranitar, who can force Gengar out using Dark moves or Thunder Wave. Gengar can only return a Focus Blast, which does not OHKO Tyranitar in sandstorm
 
First of all, I love the idea of the set. While I am a fan of SubDisable Gengar (especially variants that also run Taunt), this is unique and unexpected so it should be successful if I were to play test it.

When running Trick, be careful with others who run "trap" items (Jirachi, Rotom, etc.) such as Flame Orb, Choice Items, Iron Balls (which make Earthquake super-effective on Gengar), and Sticky Barbs.

Lastly, you should note that this Gengar is very weak to Scizor, because of Pursuit.
 
ehh, I don't see the merit of this set (and im being VERY nice here). O.k, it beats Blissey, basically so do most of the other sets Gengar runs. Without sub your vulnerable to a fuckload of things, and your defences mean that its difficult to pull off a taunt without dying. This is compounded by the fact that Sub Gengar is so common that 99% of the time you attack Gengar to prevent it getting up that free sub, rather than pissing around trying to Thunder Wave it or whatever.

Venoshock having almost 200 base power is meh when you consider you need the pokemon poisoned for it to work, which means against anything thats NOT poisoned, you do fuck all damage too. HP Fire can hurt steels, but Scizor is still Bullet Punching you (provided it avoids HP Fire on the switch in), and I think SDef Jirachi beats you anyway even with HP Fire so im not sure if im seeing that attraction. Also HP Fire over Focus Blast means Tar has a field day etc etc.

Your set is very situational, and when you factor in that Shadow Ball and Focus Blast are better choices for your attacking moves, and that Substitute is better than Taunt in most cases, ummmmmmmm its looking like a standard Gengar? I don't see the appeal and it really just looks like an overspecialised Blissey counter, which loses its viability if Blissey is not present.
 
Wait, after the vastly negative reception this set received on the creative moveset thread what possessed you to make you think it was good enough to actually go on the site?

Well anyway, let me explain the #1 reason why this set completely baffles me: Why on earth would you use Trick and Toxic Orb when you could just use ordinary Toxic? Toxic allows you to poison more than one Pokemon and also to use an item that actually DOES something for you as well. Ok, so you remove one Pokemon's item using trick and replace it with Toxic Orb. That's not really worth not being able to control what item you get (it's not that unlikely to come up with a Choice Band or something) and essentially being down a moveslot for the rest of the match. If you want to use Trick you should equip a Scarf or something... this set is just wasteful.

As for Venoshock/toxic combination, well that at least has SOME merit (WITH TOXIC AND A USABLE ITEM), but is at the same time sacrificing a lot of power and coverage against everything that isn't poisoned (which will be a lot of stuff with frail ass gengar). And Taunt on that set would be pretty useless, except for blissey and chansey.

Speaking of which, I guess this set does beat those two pretty handily, thanks to the fact Toxic Orb will activate every time they come out, acting as a pseudo toxic-spikes... but this Gengar fails against everything else compared to other Gengar sets. It's not really worth having a counter THIS dedicated to two Pokemon unless you DESPERATELY need them out of the way... which in the case of Blissey and Chansey just makes me wonder why you don't have any strong physical attackers on your team.

Anyway, there's my more-than 2 cents. Hopefully it sheds some light on why everyone just looks at this set and says "why?".
 
This set doesn't seem good, and the only real draw it has is to permanently cripple the blobs, which is good, but not good enough. A mention of Trick + Toxic Orb + Taunt in OO should be enough i think.

Also to anyone asking why Toxic Orb + Trick instead of just Toxic, the answer is simple. Toxic Orb makes the blobs unable to stay in for longer than 2-3 turns thus permanently crippling them, exactly as T-Spikes, with the exception that once you give the orb to Chasey/Blissey, they have no way to get rid of the poison. This means that some special attackers such as CM Jirachi are now able to get past them easily.
 
I wouldn't mention Taunt in OO alongside it. I think if you're running Toxic Orb you want to run Shadow Ball/HP Fire/Focus Blast. You might be able to bluff a choice item and nail Scizor or something. You definitely don't want to deal with the crippled blob with Gengar, anyway.

This definitely isn't a great set, but I think it does actually deserve a place in OO
 
This set isn't as solid as it could be.
First up, run Substitute over Taunt. Taunt doesn't get you anywhere Substitute won't.
Also, I don't think the basic idea of this would work out. It's main function is to defeat Blissey and Chansey, but with Substitute you could do it without Trick. Many of Gengar's old counters will be even more problematic, such as choice users or faster sweepers.
Another thing is that this set is single time use. Once Gengar gets rid of it's Toxic orb, it's quite useless, and will be restricted to non-boosted moves, that most defensive pokemon could easily tank. (unless you Trick your Toxic Orb back.) A small nitpick, Guts users will also wall this thing to the Sun, though they are very uncommon. Gliscor, Breloom, and the pretty rare-but-still-used Immunity Snorlax will also wall Gengar (especially Snorlax because of it's massive Sp. Def and HP.)
Just an idea, perhaps you could trade your Toxic orb for a life orb- because then, you could still sweep, and Trick will also hinder your walls (though, not as much a Toxic orb.) Life Orb+Trick and Substitute forces your walls to use 10% of their HP every turn just to break that annoying substitute that prevents them from doing anything else to you. Also, with a Life Orb, you get the power boost that turns Gengar into a formidable sweeper, with it's massive Sp Atk and great speed. With a Life Orb, the set would be quite a lot more solid, though whether it's enough to get on site I'm not sure.
 
Walling Chansey/Blissey is about the peak of this set.. Not being able to hide behind a sub to fire Hp Fire at scizor ferro etc is not worth the waste. As well as Hydreigons coming on anything unless its Sub 3+ attacks.
 
I'm sorry but I just can't see why I would use this over any other Gengar set (definitely not to beat the blobs because the others already do that and can do much more).

QC REJECTED 1/3
 
i think it might work if it was a gengar with flame orb to cripple physical attackers and instead of taunt add another...but it would basicly would look like a sub+3 attacks gengar but with flame orb and trick instead
 
Uh. Yeah. No Flame Orb. The strategy itself seems extremely specific and conditional, and I'm agreeing with what zdrup says as well.

QC Rejected [2/3]
 
To Jimera0: This set had a fairly positive reception on the creative movesets thread. I think you're talking about my Facade Terrakion (that set SUCKED). As alexwolf said, there are merits of ToxicOrb vs Toxic.

To everyone else: I suppose first contributions seem to be mediocre, and this was no exception. I've only tested this a few times, and works well when it works. However, I do agree it is highly situational.

I've also been thinking about Gengar often being a Blissey/Chansey lure. If the blob does switch against GGar, it's practically suicide.
 
ohgod no. flame orb is even worse than toxic orb. at least gengar can bluff a choice item with toxic orb.

also, gengar like almost all ghosts, has WILL O WISP. willowisp > trickorb.
 
QC Rejected 3/3

in the future do not make stupid posts whose sole content is "this set sucks!!!" and please try your hardest not to be assholes -____-


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