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Pokémon Gengar

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I think the most flexible and overall-best Gengar set (from experience) is Gengar's Pain Split set.

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball

This set doesn't have the coverage that sub/protect+3 attacks sets have nor the sniping abilities of Mega Gengar, but it has the potential to come in at many points during a battle and rip stuff to shreds. With a Life Orb, Gengar can basically 2HKO just about every single OU Pokemon that isn't a pink blob or a sandy dinosaur, so there isn't much that actually stands a chance against this thing once it's behind a sub (not that hard to achieve). Pain Split allows you to be near-reckless with it, to the point where most of the time Gengar will be below 50% HP. However, being able to choose between outright attacking and sapping HP is what gives Gengar an awesome edge, and at its heart, it requires no real setup since it can sweep late-game with just Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave. Now that Focus Blast isn't 100% necessary, I've found running Sludge Wave pays off better. It's not hard finding teammates to dispatch Tyranitar and Blissey.

Now that I think about it, the beauty of all Gengar sets stems from their flexibility. This set is no exception.
 
Texas said:
Is there a reason that sets use Icy Wind instead of Energy Ball? Also, why no Dazzling Gleam?
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Dazzling Gleam sucks.

Icy Wind is nice if you have trouble with Gliscor or Zygarde. Energy Ball is nice if you have trouble with Rotom-W. Dazzling Gleam is just flat out bad and should never be considered.

I don't know why people use it. It's not like it even does any relevant damage to Tyranitar.
 
b2j135 said:
OP needs to be updated
Gengar doesn't get Sludge Wave...I don;t think it ever did :/
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My bad, I didn't specify that it's a Pokebank set. Like AOPSuser said, it received Sludge Wave in Gen V. However, Sludge Wave can be replaced by Sludge Bomb to make it pre-Pokebank legal, and it basically functions the exact same.

AOPSuser said:
Dazzling Gleam sucks.

Icy Wind is nice if you have trouble with Gliscor or Zygarde. Energy Ball is nice if you have trouble with Rotom-W. Dazzling Gleam is just flat out bad and should never be considered.

I don't know why people use it. It's not like it even does any relevant damage to Tyranitar.
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I agree, Icy Wind has a lot of utility with the whole speed-drop thing. It actually works out in Gengar's favor a lot even when it's not super effective (especially against stuff like Scarf T-tar). As for Energy Ball, though, is it really worth putting it in one of Gengar's moveslots? The only really notable Pokemon I can think of it would hit is Rotom-W (it probably hits Tyranitar like a wet noodle, despite being SE), and it only does 25 more damage to Rotom-W than a STAB Sludge Bomb. Since Gastrodon's not going to be as popular this gen, I can't think of any scenario where having Energy Ball would be all that critical.
 
Energy Ball is a decent option if your team needs stuff like rotom-w/Quagsire/Gastro out of the way to allow something to sweep eg. Talonflame, Azumarill etc appreciate MegaGengar trapping and killing such stuff. Doesnt really have any other use though.
 
UnhandledException said:
Energy Ball is a decent option if your team needs stuff like rotom-w/Quagsire/Gastro out of the way to allow something to sweep eg. Talonflame, Azumarill etc appreciate MegaGengar trapping and killing such stuff. Doesnt really have any other use though.
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It's also good way to fight SpD Hippowdon, which is considered one of your best checks. Even Specially Defensive Hippowdon won't enjoy taking SE Energy Blasts in the face.
 
CyclicCompound said:
it only does 25 more damage to Rotom-W than a STAB Sludge Bomb. Since Gastrodon's not going to be as popular this gen, I can't think of any scenario where having Energy Ball would be all that critical.
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Not that it matters too much but a SE energy ball does 45 more damage than a STAB neutral sludge bomb because of the base power bump.
 
CyclicCompound said:
I think the most flexible and overall-best Gengar set (from experience) is Gengar's Pain Split set.

This set doesn't have the coverage that sub/protect+3 attacks sets have nor the sniping abilities of Mega Gengar, but it has the potential to come in at many points during a battle and rip stuff to shreds. With a Life Orb, Gengar can basically 2HKO just about every single OU Pokemon that isn't a pink blob or a sandy dinosaur, so there isn't much that actually stands a chance against this thing once it's behind a sub (not that hard to achieve). Pain Split allows you to be near-reckless with it, to the point where most of the time Gengar will be below 50% HP. However, being able to choose between outright attacking and sapping HP is what gives Gengar an awesome edge, and at its heart, it requires no real setup since it can sweep late-game with just Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave. Now that Focus Blast isn't 100% necessary, I've found running Sludge Wave pays off better. It's not hard finding teammates to dispatch Tyranitar and Blissey.

Now that I think about it, the beauty of all Gengar sets stems from their flexibility. This set is no exception.
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I've never really understood the way Pain Split sets work. I assume you're supposed to sub until you're at low HP, then Pain Split to take a hit and lower their health, then outspeed and KO them. But in my experience, Gengar can get easily OHKO'd from full health, so I don't really get it...don't you just get wrecked on the turn you use Pain Split?
 
Kakimori said:
I've never really understood the way Pain Split sets work. I assume you're supposed to sub until you're at low HP, then Pain Split to take a hit and lower their health, then outspeed and KO them. But in my experience, Gengar can get easily OHKO'd from full health, so I don't really get it...don't you just get wrecked on the turn you use Pain Split?
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In a nutshell:
You sub and force the opponent out. Counter comes in, hit it with shadow ball or if you are low hp you split when they break your sub. Switch out.
bring gar back in, sub on the switch, pain split as they break sub. Then switch or kill it with an attack. Now you have reasonably high hp on gengar and a dead counter. The set was designed to beat blissey btw.

It's not nearly as good as it was in gen 4 and disable is usually better.

Also don't use it on mega gar lol. It needs the life orb to ko blissey after a pain split
 
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Exeggutive said:
In a nutshell:
You sub and force the opponent out. Counter comes in, hit it with shadow ball or if you are low hp you split when they break your sub. Switch out.
bring gar back in, sub on the switch, pain split as they break sub. Then switch or kill it with an attack. Now you have reasonably high hp on gengar and a dead counter. The set was designed to beat blissey btw.

It's not nearly as good as it was in gen 4 and disable is usually better.

Also don't use it on mega gar lol. It needs the life orb to ko blissey after a pain split
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I've tried the Disable set multiple times, but in the end, I prefer this one. From my experience, most pokes have more than one thing that can hit Gengar, and I constantly find myself having to switch out (without much hope of recovery, since leftovers doesn't do all that much for Gengar). Plus, the extra kick added to your attacks from Life Orb is too good to pass up in my opinion.

I know this set was meant to take on Blissey, but I find it has utility against a lot of other Pokemon. I honestly think the key to using this set is maneuvering your opponent's team into the position where Gengar will be doing lots of damage to the opponent's team no matter what they try to do. Usually that either gives me room for an easy sweep with another poke, or, since Gengar doesn't usually die when using this set, bringing Gengar back in late-game and sweeping with LO-boosted attacks.
 
I use a gimicky set
Gengar@Gengarnite
(Forgot nature lol)
252Spe, 252 SpA 4HP

Confusion ray
Thunderbolt
Shadowball
Subsitute
I also did the all offensive one and its cool. But anyways I'll explain.
I realized Gengar doesn't have to hard of a time MEvo on waters so I felt Tbolt was useful, plus Shadow tag keeps them trapped, and Tbolt also deals with Skarmorys, and can help against normal types and the odd Flying switch in. Plus the paralize chance is nice.
I use Confusion ray for many things.
It can make your opponent damage themself, which is indeed handy especially if you have SR up on top of that, and if you have a counter to the opponent you have almost a free switch in, I usally use Confusion ray to cripple my opponent and switch in a sweeper or counter. This tends to help my Cloyster sweep xD. I have also used confusion ray to bring up a Subsitute and/or avoud a sucker punch and it works great.
The last two moves should have obvious reasons.

Anyways, yes it's gimmicky but don't forget that this can cause a lot of havok.
 
Flamebot said:
I use a gimicky set
Gengar@Gengarnite
(Forgot nature lol)
252Spe, 252 SpA 4HP

Confusion ray
Thunderbolt
Shadowball
Subsitute
I also did the all offensive one and its cool. But anyways I'll explain.
I realized Gengar doesn't have to hard of a time MEvo on waters so I felt Tbolt was useful, plus Shadow tag keeps them trapped, and Tbolt also deals with Skarmorys, and can help against normal types and the odd Flying switch in. Plus the paralize chance is nice.
I use Confusion ray for many things.
It can make your opponent damage themself, which is indeed handy especially if you have SR up on top of that, and if you have a counter to the opponent you have almost a free switch in, I usally use Confusion ray to cripple my opponent and switch in a sweeper or counter. This tends to help my Cloyster sweep xD. I have also used confusion ray to bring up a Subsitute and/or avoud a sucker punch and it works great.
The last two moves should have obvious reasons.

Anyways, yes it's gimmicky but don't forget that this can cause a lot of havok.
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I'd venture to say that 90% of the pokes you'll run into have something that can break Gengar's subs, especially since it loses Levitate when it Mega Evolves. Plus, since you have Shadow Tag, you won't be able to capitalize on switches at all to set up a sub. So if the only options you have against the opposing Pokemon are a) knock it out with Shadow Ball, b) knock it out with T-bolt, and c) confuse it and pray to the hax gods, I'd feel like the better way to go would be to either go all-out attacking or to replace confuse ray with something a little more reliable, like Disable.
 
CyclicCompound said:
I'd venture to say that 90% of the pokes you'll run into have something that can break Gengar's subs, especially since it loses Levitate when it Mega Evolves. Plus, since you have Shadow Tag, you won't be able to capitalize on switches at all to set up a sub. So if the only options you have against the opposing Pokemon are a) knock it out with Shadow Ball, b) knock it out with T-bolt, and c) confuse it and pray to the hax gods, I'd feel like the better way to go would be to either go all-out attacking or to replace confuse ray with something a little more reliable, like Disable.
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My all out attacking set is HP fire instead of Confusion ray so the standerd all out set I think. And as I said it's gimmicky but I find it works alright. I have had succes with it.
 
Hiya people, I'm a newb to the forums, but I've lurked for a while. Gengar's one of my favorites, and before the Mega gets sent to Ubers, I feel it's my duty to abuse it as much as possible.

I'm running him with the standard Mega moveset, 4-attacks set in an almost-stall team (icy wind as fourth move to fight choicechomp), but what I have to contribute is my EV spread.


Mega Stone, Timid, 60 HP, 252 Special Attack, 196 Speed.


With Mega, the speed after this is now 380 at level 100. The downside is that Weavile and Jolteon outspeed you, which is bad...sort-of, and the rest of the people who now outspeed you don't matter (Talonflame is using prio anyway, Darkrai and Swellow won't be showing up, same with Shaymin-S and Meloetta). You also still keep enough speed to outrun more legitimate unboosted threats, such as Greninja, Noivern, Alakazam, Dugtrio, and Tornadus.

The added HP is pretty good for bulk, and has a definite advantage of being able to survive a 252atk Adamant Aegisslash's unboosted shadow sneak after stealth rock 100% of the time, meaning you can sometimes set up Gengar so that Aegisslash is guaranteed to die when it tries to revenge kill or switch in, without using a moveslot for sub. Which, to state the obvious, is rather nice. One of my sparring buddies runs Aegisslash/Forretress, this actually comes up all the time for me. I think this could be a standard EV spread, only really losing out to 252/252 against Weavile and Mega Gengar mirrors, but they couldn't really switch into each other anyway to begin with.


ps: if someone came up with this ev spread already, I apologize, I didn't check every page of this thread.
 
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painsplit/sub was designed to take out blissey. Getting rid of focus blast means you fight blissey to a standstill instead of a win.

this is a neato lead set. Its fun and hella old school.

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Counter
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
 
neato said:
painsplit/sub was designed to take out blissey. Getting rid of focus blast means you fight blissey to a standstill instead of a win.

this is a neato lead set. Its fun and hella old school.

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Counter
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
Click to expand...

When I use the Pain Split set without Focus Blast, I always pack something that can repeatedly switch into/take out Blissey. Usually my prediction skills are okay to the point where Blissey isn't an obstacle to Gengar's sweep (of course, if its 1v1 then I do indeed lose but I still value STAB Sludge Bomb/Wave more). I haven't found it to be a problem yet (especially seeing as Blissey has some degree of competition from other special walls now, like Goodra).

As for your set, I remember using something similar in Gen IV back when leads were required. It's cool to see such an old concept come back into play, especially now that Gengar can pretty much level a lot of teams with just Shadow Ball. I'd love to see your set in action.
 
Welp, there goes Mega Gengar. Not exactly unexpected, really. Perhaps all MGengar talk will be directed to Ubers now?

Anyway, I might actually have to get myself a Gengar one of these days because I really need another Ground immunity on my team. I suppose Sub + 3 attacks is the standard for regular Gengar nowadays?
 
I personally think that Substitute/Disable will continue as Gengar's overall best set, especially with the greater prominence of priority users such as Aegislash, Azumarill, and Scizor. Being able to put an end to such attacks that threaten it is a massive advantage that can really boost Gengar's staying power. Of course, Substitute/3 Attacks got a whole lot better as well due to Sludge Wave being a relevant coverage move, and it can help greatly with the removal of any fairies that a team may find troublesome.
 
So since mega gengar is now uber, does that mean most of gengar's old sets are viable again as they're not completely outclassed anymore?
 
Gengar's Focus Sash and Substitute sets were never truly outclassed by Mega Gengar... the problem was more along the lines of Mega Gengar's trapping abilities overshadowing anything normal Gengar could do. I'm glad to see the decision. Now we can put all the Mega Gengar discussion behind and look at what a 2-eyed Gengar can do in OU.

SubDisable Gengar is still a great choice, but I'm leaning more towards a simple Sub+3 Attacks Gengar lately. One of the most underrated options on Gengar is Will-O-Wisp. We all know how useful WoW is in the current meta, and many common threats like TTar and Scizor would despise an unexpected Burn.
 
I'm a little sad that Mega Gengar got kicked to Ubers, but with the stupid ease with which it kills pretty much anything you want it to, I say good riddance. And it won't stop regular Gengar from being an amazing pokemon and it won't stop Mega Gengar from killing the shit out of Ubers' hapless psychic types. Mewtwo's day just got a little bit worse.

Now I have to go and breed another perfect Gengar with Disable this time. God damn it Smogon!
 
In all honesty, when I use Mega Gengar, I often miss having Levitate, using Lefties, or even taking LO recoil (I tried a Pain Split set without LO—it didn't work out.) Levitate just makes it easy to switch in on so many threats and really makes the game more dynamic when both you and your opponent have to play around one more immunity. And without Leftovers, it feels like Gengar just gets worn down extremely quickly from subs and T-tar sandstorms and stealth rock and the like. I've never used a perish trapping set as a matter of principle (as someone who loves to play defensive styles, I know how much of a pain it is to battle sometimes), but I have used the offensive sets, and I definitely miss some of the things that make normal Gengar shine. Maybe I'm just not too great at the whole revenge-killing concept, but I prefer to use Gengar in very different ways.
 
Gengar's Subsplit set should still be plenty viable this gen; Shadow Ball and Focus Blast have perfect coverage together and hurt like hell. Not to mention, Steel-types don't resist Shadow Ball anymore, which makes pivoting into it with Pokemon like Specially Defensive Skarmory and Heatran even more difficult. On the other hand, the presence of Assault Vest means he'll miss kills on certain Pokemon, many of which can trap him (Scizor, Tyranitar, etc.). On top of his old checks and counters, new Special walls like Goodra, Sylveon, and Florges don't take much from his usual coverage moves either. Gengar may adapt to these new threats by simply going for an all-out attacking set that uses Sludge Bomb and Thunderbolt to target some of the other sets' regular checks (Specially Defensive Fairies and Mandibuzz). Other viable options include Choice and Sub + 3 Attacks.
 
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