Gods and Followers

[TotalAsteroid]

IMO Palkia should be at least ★★★★, maybe ★★★★★ as he gets a ton of pokemon to work with such as Alomomola for wish support, wall breakers in Latios, Manaphy, Azumarill, Gyarados, lots of sweepers such as Garchomp, Palkia himself, Kyurem, Mega Altaria, Keldeo, etc. and the plethora of bulky water and dragon types like Latias, Rotom-W, Goodra, Empoleon, Slowbro, Suicune, Tentacruel, Dragalge, and others I don't want to lists because my hands would hurt. Palkia acts amazing as a great cleaner after a win condition is stopped or Palkia can be a win condition himself. Palkia teams can have a difficult time against PDon, but rarely with his team members because both types are weak to water and can usually have someone to handle PDon through coverage or a team member. I can see Palkia needing more testing.

Palkia Balance

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Impish Nature
- Healing Wish
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Rest

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
- Waterfall

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Poison Jab

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost

Use Empoleon to keep hazards up while Azumarill and Garchomp to remove threats for Palkia and Altaria to sweep. Alomomola keeps team members alive while stalling threats out. As always, it can be adjusted to what you want.

 

[Jajoken]

Added to the archive. Thanks for the contribution!

I also took a moment to look over some learnsets to see what types have access to cleric moves, as they hold more value here than in standard play, being that the the god's survival holds a lot of importance. Here's the result:

Things I noticed:

-Ground monos are screwed. Better have a good secondary type on your god if you want any cleric support.
-Fighting is only saved by Mega Lopunny, the only user of Healing Wish and Heal Bell for the whole type.
-Poison, Rock and Ghost are also in a rough spot. Notably, Gengar teams won't have access to team HP restoration.
-Psychic, Water, Normal and Fairy have a whole lot of options. Dragon and Grass have fewer, but still can access anything.
-Steel has no Heal Bell user??? Bells are made of metal!

 

[TotalAsteroid]

Dialga to ★★★★
I feel that Dialga is viable in many ways, and should be ★★★★ and not ★★★★★. It can run many options from defensive to offensive. It can provide a very sturdy FDS core in Dialga-Altaria while having many options through steel and dragon. It has stall mons in Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Latias to an extent, and Jirachi. It has bulky attackers in Garchomp, Mega Meta to an extent, Heatran, Dragonite, Scizor and Magnezone. It has amazing sweepers in Garchomp, Mega Altaria, Mega Metagross, and Kyurem-Black. It has wall breakers in Latios and potentially Dragonite. It has a stall breaker in Latias (with potentially more). And finally, it has amazing trappers in Scizor, Magnezone, and especially Bisharp. This is all in OU, and there are probably viable and maybe better mons in some lower tiers.
I have identified a weakness however. It usually has hell when facing PDon, like other steel types, as almost nothing can reliably OHKO and outspend it after a boost. Both fire and ground are difficult against steel. In the short amount of testing I did, I found that Latios with choice specs can reliably OHKO PDon after SR and take one hit, and PDon can't have access to fairies or Healing Wish. That said, the late twins are both checked by Heatran reliably which will probably be common on PDon teams.
I haven't come up with a team that I like, as both Latis are unfavorable with Heatran everywhere on PDon teams

Primal Groudon to ★★★★★
I agree that PDon looks like one of, if not, the best god in the meta. PDon has a plethora of good qualities and one small downside. It is arguably the most versatile pokemon with access to pokemon from all archetypes and having no real weakness, as hazards are no problem for ground. Fire has great options offensively and Ground has great options defensively, and both types go hand-in-hand with each other. Fire and Ground teams tend to contradict a tiny bit as Ground is physical-oriented with bulk while Fire has a lot more glass canons with access to many more coverage moves. PDon wraps this package in a nice bow by being able to support or sweep. PDon teams have no set archetype, as it can range from Stall/Bulky teams with primarily ground to Hyper Offense teams with many more fire. The only downside is that it doesn't have access to healing Wish, meaning that weakening PDon is a lot easier than normal.
I feel like PDon isn't for me, so no teams

Quagsire: Derp

 

[Isa Simple]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Magic Guard prevents the passive damage from Curse in standard game modes.
Is this still the case in this OM? Or are the Curse mechanics changed to affect all pokemon regardless once your God is dead.

In the case that Magic Guard does block Curse, I can see this being rather beneficial to Fairy or Psychic teams who use their god as their win condition (e.g. Xerneas), as Clefable or Reuniclus could act as reliable secondary win cons.

 

[Snaquaza]

What I really want to talk about is PDon teams, and PDon is an easy ★★★★★ choice. Lets ignore for now that PDon itself is one of the best Pokemon ever made, and focus on what it can bring to the table for support - Ground has access to some interesting mons, such as Lando-T, Garchomp, Zygarde if you want ESpeed, Flygon if you want defog, Excadrill, Gastrodon, Quagsire, Hippowdon, Gliscor, and even Rhyperior is viable. Meanwhile Fire gives you Heatran, Entei, Rotom-Heat, Talonflame, Charizard (X or Y - you decide), Victini, Moltres, Volcarona, and some other fires including Infernape, Darmanitan, and Arcanine. Bring these two together and you have some interesting team options, for both offensive teams and defensive teams. And this is all tied together by PDon - a fantastic Pokemon, both offensively and defensively. PDon by itself makes certain match-ups hell for certain Pokemon (Volcanion, who would otherwise have a decent chance vs the team, is stopped cold by PDon; the aforementioned Aegislash and Fairy Gods; any Water-type God not named Arceus-Water or P-Ogre hate PDon; ect) PDon is also good because it patches up a huge weakness the team has - Water - without having to put Gastro and other Water Absorbers like Seismitoed on the team. And, while we're at it, normal Groudon should be at ★★ - outside of dedicated sun teams (something that has a bad match up against PDon, POgre, and normal weather) there's basically no reason to use it over PDon. However, dedicated sun team is enough of a niche to not make it ★

What dedicated sun team do you want to run with all Ground-types. You have... Camerupt to abuse it with its Fire-type, but you don't have any other reason to actually dedicate your team to sun. The only good thing about it may be that you have a better matchup against team with Water-types, but if you have Primal-Groudon you have a Pokemon immune to Water, which is as such harder to wear down, in addition to Seismitoad and Gastrodon already being Water-immune. Honestly, I don't feel dedicated sun would really be a thing, and as such normal Groudon should be ★-rank. It seems too much of a gimmick, and actually helps Fire-teams against your team. As the OP says, it's a completely outclassed god, but if the opponent isn't prepared, it can still work, but it will be an up-hill battle.

 

[Jajoken]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Magic Guard prevents the passive damage from Curse in standard game modes.
Is this still the case in this OM? Or are the Curse mechanics changed to affect all pokemon regardless once your God is dead.

In the case that Magic Guard does block Curse, I can see this being rather beneficial to Fairy or Psychic teams who use their god as their win condition (e.g. Xerneas), as Clefable or Reuniclus could act as reliable secondary win cons.

I decided to check this out. Behold the epic battle.

So...yes! Magic Guard makes you immune to Curse. It's a loophole I didn't forsee, but I don't see any reason to do anything about it. Magic Guard is limited to Clefable (which only fits on rare Fairy teams and would rather be running Unaware in "Ubers" anyway) and a bunch of Psychics, some of which are better than others. Sigilyph is an option for Flying teams as well...but is it worth using Sigilyph tho? If it had better distribution, I'd consider doing something about it, but even a Mewtwo team with Alakazam, Reuniclus and Sigilyph doesn't sound like that much of an advantage.

EDIT: I also tested if god self-death still triggers the curse, which it does. Shaymin's Healing Wish was all for nothing.

 

[TotalAsteroid]

So...yes! Magic Guard makes you immune to Curse. It's a loophole I didn't forsee, but I don't see any reason to do anything about it. Magic Guard is limited to Clefable (which only fits on rare Fairy teams and would rather be running Unaware in "Ubers" anyway) and a bunch of Psychics, some of which are better than others. Sigilyph is an option for Flying teams as well...but is it worth using Sigilyph tho? If it had better distribution, I'd consider doing something about it, but even a Mewtwo team with Alakazam, Reuniclus and Sigilyph doesn't sound like that much of an advantage.

Yeah, I feel that we should leave it. If it gets out of hand, we can easily do something about it

 

[TotalAsteroid]

Zekrom feels like a ★★★ rank because it's good only on offense, gets destroyed by PDon, and has difficulty against anything involving ground. Also, has little access to support and its only niche is sticky web, which Genesect can use.

Also, Genesect also feels like a ★★★ for the same reasons, only that Genesect has better options but is part bug.

 

[Jaguar360]

Zekrom feels like a ★★★ rank because it's good only on offense, gets destroyed by PDon, and has difficulty against anything involving ground. Also, has little access to support and its only niche is sticky web, which Genesect can use.

Also, Genesect also feels like a ★★★ for the same reasons, only that Genesect has better options but is part bug.

I disagree on Zekrom. A lot of Dragons like Garchomp, Zygarde, Flygon and Earthquake Dragonite can go toe-to-toe with P-don and Zekrom teams have some of the best matchups with (Primal) Kyogre and Volcanion teams as well. With all of the Electric types available at its disposal, it can also pull of really effective Volt-turn teams (and Hydreigon, Flygon and Noivern have U-turn to supplement this). ★★★★ rank seems more appropriate to me.

I think ★★★ fits for Genesect because Gene teams have no P-don switch-ins and can't do much to damage it aside from Excadrill, Heatran Earth Power, and HP Ground Volcarona. However, I feel that you're underrating it a little just because Steel is such a valuable type to have with its many resistances and good support Pokemon like Skarmory, Jirachi, Ferrothorn, Empoleon, Excadrill, etc. Genesect teams are pretty much the mascot of Volt-turn as well, so that's pretty big. P-don ruins its life though, so that sucks.

 

[TotalAsteroid]

I disagree on Zekrom. A lot of Dragons like Garchomp, Zygarde, Flygon and Earthquake Dragonite can go toe-to-toe with P-don

I still feel that is has trouble, as the followers are ground type themselves and Zygarde, Dragonite, or even Garchomp can't OHKO PDon because of his 180 defense. You're still are probably either switching in on an attack or coming in after a kill. CS Latios is the only option that is reliable, as he can take a hit from PDon and have a chance to OHKO it without SR. And Scarf Garchomp doesn't outspend PDon at +2 (Obviously)

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 218-258 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO against Spd PDon
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 218-258 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO against Rock Polish PDon
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 288-339 (80.6 - 94.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Garchomp is most likely going to be weakened already
252+ Atk Life Orb Zygarde Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 260-307 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock against Rock Polish PDon
Zygarde does more due to LO, but always gets out speed.

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 234-276 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Zygarde is most likely taken care of because Zygarde can be a threat

Latios is more reliable because he can take a hit
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 185-218 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
and kill PDon back
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 348-409 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 302-356 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
And PDon has no fairies, only resists
This is the only check I know, but there could be more and the followers would give you more problems, which I think you're underestimating
Zekrom would still make an insane Vlot-Turn team because both typings have a lot of pivots
Also, sticky web

Also, I said Genesect has better options, but what I was thinking is that it was because he was part steel.

 

[dsm77773]

I still feel that is has trouble, as the followers are ground type themselves and Zygarde, Dragonite, or even Garchomp can't OHKO PDon because of his 180 defense. You're still are probably either switching in on an attack or coming in after a kill. CS Latios is the only option that is reliable, as he can take a hit from PDon and have a chance to OHKO it without SR. And Scarf Garchomp doesn't outspend PDon at +2 (Obviously)

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 218-258 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO against Spd PDon
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 218-258 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO against Rock Polish PDon
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 288-339 (80.6 - 94.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Garchomp is most likely going to be weakened already
252+ Atk Life Orb Zygarde Earthquake vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 260-307 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock against Rock Polish PDon
Zygarde does more due to LO, but always gets out speed.

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 234-276 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Zygarde is most likely taken care of because Zygarde can be a threat

Latios is more reliable because he can take a hit
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 185-218 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
and kill PDon back
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 348-409 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 302-356 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
And PDon has no fairies, only resists
This is the only check I know, but there could be more and the followers would give you more problems, which I think you're underestimating
Zekrom would still make an insane Vlot-Turn team because both typings have a lot of pivots
Also, sticky web

Also, I said Genesect has better options, but what I was thinking is that it was because he was part steel.

A little nitpick, Primal Groudon has 160 base Defense, which is impressive, but not as high as 180.

 

[Jajoken]

I've posted a starting point for the viability rankings based on what people have discussed and my own thoughts. At first I thought about holding off until I tested some things, but there's no harm in giving an initial placement and moving based on performance. You'll note that there's nothing in the five-star rank -- that's purposeful. Five-star is the S of this metagame, and lists gods that define the metagame. Since it hasn't been defined yet, there's no point in listing them. I will say that I expect P-don and Megagar to rise here, thanks to the latter's ability to trap other gods and the former's ability to just be really broken.

Reasoning

(One-star)
Arceus = these are the Arceus forms that have so much competition that there's really no reason to force yourself into a monotype to use them.
~~Bug = Genesect and not much else, but Bug kind of sucks for a mono
~~Dragon = 10 million dragons in this tier, all with useful dual types
~~Fire = Ho-oh, Blaziken, Reshiram, Volcanion, Primal Groudon
~~Flying = Ho-oh, Lugia, Yveltal, Rayquaza, Salamence, Shaymin, Landorus
~~Psychic = Mewtwo, Lugia, Latias, Latios
~~Steel = Dialga, Aegislash, Genesect, Mawile, Lucario
~~Water = Palkia, Kyogre, Greninja, Volcanion
Deoxys = in Ubers, Deoxys mainly serves as a suicidal hazard setter that doesn't stick around...that doesn't work for a god...plus all you have are Psychic types
~~Normal = just sucks, that bulk won't get you anywhere
~~Attack = beyond frail, but has a minor niche in a hit and run Life Orb set, though mono-Psychic won't give you the team support you truly need
~~Defense = not as bulky as Lugia or even Arceus-Psychic, Spike stacking leaves you incredibly vulnerable
~~Speed = same as above, but even frailer
Floette = complete garbage, but gets a ranking until it's released
Groudon = Primal Groudon completely outclasses it. Unlike in Ubers, where it has the niche of providing Sun support, a Ground mono will really not benefit at all...use Arceus-Ground if you really don't want P-don

(Two-star)
Arceus = these forms see less competiton and are generally better types overall
~~Electric = only competes with Zekrom, but still outclassed as a monotype
~~Fighting = only competes with Blaziken and MMX and has the best special set, but losing Psychic and Fire is probably not worth it
~~Ice = only competes with Kyurem-W, but Ice is a dubious monotype -- though here, you can use KyuB as a follower, the best Ice type in OU
~~Ghost = good type with high rank in Ubers, but I don't know why you'd use it over Giratina/Gengar in this format -- still potentially worth the strength of the base form alone
~~Ground = good type and good base form, but Primal Groudon is more attractive
~~Poison = only competes with Gengar, but isn't great overall
Darkrai = frail and relies on Dark Void accuracy to survive some encounters, but still the most reliable Sleep user with a good type
Greninja = total glass cannon that's usually used for a suicide lead in Ubers, but the dual type is pretty good and you have options to hit and run, keeping yourself alive
Kyogre-Primal = has a niche in better dealing with Primal Groudon, but otherwise really misses giving Rain support to the rest of the monotype
Mewtwo/MMY = very strong but perhaps not worth using a mono Psychic team. MMX can also run similar sets while having a better team typing

(Three-star)
Arceus = these forms are either very rare types, or they're strong enough to consider a disadventageous monotype
~~Dark = bulkier than Darkrai/Greninja without the exploitable Flying typing of Yveltal. Also has a wildly different skillset than Yveltal, potentially pulling off a scary Calm Mind set
~~Fairy = only sees competition from Xerneas, and Fairy is a great type -- bulkier than Xerneas as a full tank and can also boost stats with less risk
~~Grass = Shaymin is the only other Grass type but it's frail and x4 Ice weak -- so this form has fairly low competition
~~Rock = no Rock types in Ubers, so this is your best option before we start exploring OU gods (of which a few good ones exist and may cause this to drop)
Blaziken/Mega = cool dual typing with a lot of useful resistances, and the potential to pull off a speedy sweep -- Mega is bulkier and good if you don't to use another Mega, but the base form is still just as usable if you'd rather use Zard X or something
Genesect = best choice for Bug, but this combo leaves you inherently Fire-weak, which is a problem when Primal Groudon and several Fire types in this rank -- still, Bug is hard to come by and Steel is a solid defensive typing
Ho-oh = great Pokemon, but creates a big Rock weakness for it's team, placing a lot of importance on hazard control
Kangaskhan-M = rare Normal type with different tools than Arceus, but still generally faces competition from it, also taking up a Mega slot
Kyogre = scary rain setter that will no doubt create powerful Swift Swim teams along with doubling x1.5 the STAB of all its followers, but held back by the fact that Primal Groudon completely shuts it down
Landorus = solid god with types that synergize with each other, but Ice weakness is an issue, and Landorus faces competition from other Flying types
Lucario-Mega = cool type combo and potentially scary sweeper, but rather frail for a god
Rayquaza = still a very solid mon with its own strengths, but generally outclassed by Salamence and very Ice weak, though it opens up the Mega slot for someone else
Shaymin-Sky = one of the only options for Grass and can stay alive with fast Sub Seed baring opossing Grass types, but still frail, Ice-weak and often relies on the pseudo-survivability of Air Slash hax

(Four-star)
Aegislash = excellent type combo that provides several offensive and defensive threats that help check other four-star teams, along Aegislash itself being versitile
Arceus = best option for Normal, few things can handle it at +2
Dialga = 2/3 of the DSF core, provides both power and bulk
Gengar-Mega = best option for Poison, can pick it's own fights with Shadow Tag, potentially trapping a god and killing it
Giratina (A/O) = beautiful bulky beast with really rad typing
Groudon-Primal = great type combo that patches its inherent Water weakness with its own ability and several Ground/Water options -- can run several different, equally scary sets and allows OU stars like Talonflame and Excadrill to serve it
Kyurem-White = Ice does a number to many of the teams in this rank and the one below, and this is your best option for it -- the Dragon typing allows you to patch up your lack of resitances, too
Lati@s = really neat typing combo, Soul Dew provides both bulk and power
Lugia = total bulk-master that's unkillable with proper support, Psychic and Flying is pretty cool from a support standpoint
Mawile-Mega = provides two of the best types in the game and the potential for a Sucker Punch sweep
Mewtwo-Mega-X = great type combo, has the ability to run several different sets
Palkia = two of the best defensive types, only struggles against Fairies and opposing Dragons which can be covered with stuff like Tentacruel and Empoleon
Reshiram = Fire/Dragon has some good defensive synergy and provides several offensive monsters like Zard and Altaria
Salamence-Mega = really scary sweeper that can blow back pretty much anything in the game, making up for its risky typing
Volcanion = similar to Primal Groudon in that it absorbs Water for its own Fire types, but also provides Water types of its own as well
Xerneas = arguably best option for a Fairy team thanks to its terrifying Geomancy set and the possibility of other sets
Yveltal = has useful offensive and defensive tools like Sucker Punch and Oblivion Wing, with Dark and Flying paving the way for interesting support options
Zekrom = best option for an Electric team, with pretty nifty Dragon options as well

All future changes to the viability rankings will be nominated in this thread and then discussed by the council, but if you're asking something to rise to a high rank (four or five-star), I expect to see a replay showing off the god, or at least a team that makes good use of it. Same deal for new nominations (OU gods, etc.). Drops I'll be a little more liberal with.

I just got back from vacation and won't immediately be able to play, but I'd like to start playing in the next few days. I'm kind of waiting for the server reset on the second server I'll be hosted on, but if that doesn't happen, I should be on Aqua early next week.

 

[canno]

I highly disagree with Arceus-Water being at 1 star. Unlike all the other Water-type gods listed, Arceus-Water can actually beat PDon with a defensive set using Toxic thanks to its 120/120/120 bulk and access to Recover, something the other Water gods do not have access too. Even outside of PDon, Arceus-Water is the water god with the best survivability and most support options, such as Thunder Wave, Wisp, and Defog. It can also go on the offense - both with SD and CM, making it a very versatile God. imho it should at the very least be at 2-stars but I'd argue for 3-stars - Arceus-Water is stronk

 

[Ghoul King]

Rain is only a 50% boost to Water moves. (And in turn Sun is 50% for Fire) Kyogre doesn't double the strength of STAB moves for its water followers.

I totally thought it was x2 in both directions for more than a decade, but it isn't. Which explains a lot about why weather was bad in Gen II, really.

 

[Jajoken]

I highly disagree with Arceus-Water being at 1 star. Unlike all the other Water-type gods listed, Arceus-Water can actually beat PDon with a defensive set using Toxic thanks to its 120/120/120 bulk and access to Recover, something the other Water gods do not have access too. Even outside of PDon, Arceus-Water is the water god with the best survivability and most support options, such as Thunder Wave, Wisp, and Defog. It can also go on the offense - both with SD and CM, making it a very versatile God. imho it should at the very least be at 2-stars but I'd argue for 3-stars - Arceus-Water is stronk

I could see a potential two-star, but three-star is stretching it. Even ignoring that Kyogre's Drizzle doesn't double Water move strength (I keep making that mistake lol), I think it still provides more to the team than Arceus against everything except opposing P-don. Even if Arceus can check P-don, Swords Dance variants can muscle through it, getting off a lot of damage before being Roared out. Primal Kyogre seems like the better overall P-don answer for a Water mono, as while 100/90 is undoubtedly worse than 120/120, the ability to actually kill it with a massive base 180 SA and not just stall it out seems more worthwhile.

 

[TotalAsteroid]

I disagree in Kyurem's position, as the ice type makes it have a lot less options. It gets, uh, Weavile, Kyurem-Black, Mamoswine, Abomasnow? Dragon is better, but the one that use healing moves have better rolls. Kyurem can only work in HO, as he has no bulky attackers outside of dragons. It struggles against steel types heavily, as there are many in the upper tiers. Latios, Dialga, Palkia, Salamece, & Reshiram outclass it in its roll as an attacker and in type. Three-star or two-star feels a lot better, has having the 2nd hardest special attacker as a mon has merits, but POgre hits harder.

 

[Jajoken]

I disagree in Kyurem's position, as the ice type makes it have a lot less options. It gets, uh, Weavile, Kyurem-Black, Mamoswine, Abomasnow? Dragon is better, but the one that use healing moves have better rolls. Kyurem can only work in HO, as he has no bulky attackers outside of dragons. It struggles against steel types heavily, as there are many in the upper tiers. Latios, Dialga, Palkia, Salamece, & Reshiram outclass it in its roll as an attacker and in type. Three-star or two-star feels a lot better, has having the 2nd hardest special attacker as a mon has merits, but POgre hits harder.

Kyurem itself has issues (though 125/90/100 bulk should no be forgotten even if you have few resistances), but you're underselling Ice type in this metagame. There are 4 gods that are x4 weak to it, meaning that at best, followers will be neutral to Ice, but none can resist it. Then there are several other Flying and Dragon gods that will struggle against powerful Ice attacks unless specifically covered (Magnezone/some Rotom forms are the only things that can take hits on Zekrom teams for example). It's hard to argue that KyuW is the best Ice type in the game, so I think it deserves a ranking that reflects that fact, its own power, and the option to run Dragon types as well. I also disagree that it only has a role on HO: there are numerous bulky Dragons like Goodra and Dragalge that can serve multiple roles. Even if you run nothing but KyuW, some fat dragons, and maybe and Avalugg as an emergency check against threats like Arceus, you've still got a fairly solid team. It may drop to three-star depending on how it matches up against other teams, but it's ranking is only partially based on its strength as a powerful special attacker.

 

[Isa Simple]

A couple things.

1st thing.
However I don't object to Landorus-I being in the Three Star Rank, I do wander if it could move into the Four Star Rank.
At the end of the day, the meta isn't too different from Standard OU or Monotype, the only differences being each team can have just 1 Uber, and the type restrictions are a little more forgiving. Hence I'd imagine Landorus-I to be a very potent threat. I mean Lando-I is an S rank Flying type in monotype, an S rank Ground type in monotype, and a completely broken pokemon in OU. Surely the opposition having 1 Uber can't take all that away from it. In standard OU, Landorus' only counters were Mega Latias and Cress, meaning if the opponent's God isn't a psychic type, it is guaranteed to be their only hope against Lando. And if it can't take Lando, I doubt anything will be able to. For this reason I could also see Lando being rather anti meta. 8 of the Four Star Gods are out sped by Lando and OHKOed by its Earth Power, as well as having a typing weak to Ground. And if your God can't beat Lando, and isn't part Psychic, you will be fighting a very up hill battle, as you will have 0 guaranteed counters. Primal Groudon is the most likely candidate to become Five Star Rank, and Primal Groudon teams Struggle against Lando-I teams more than any others. Lando's Flying types have a good match up vs Groudon's Ground types, Lando's Ground types have a good match up vs Groudon's Fire types, and Lando beats Groudon 1v1. Ground and Flying are both amazing typings that synergies well together, and only Lando gets it out of the Ubers. The only real draw back is the Ice weakness, but Ice types are even less spashable in this meta, and Thick Fat Mamoswine is a thing that exists.

In Summary:
Landorus-I is a tippy top tier threat in Monotype and standard OU, and hence should still be really strong here.
Landorus-I is actually fairly anti meta.
Ground and Flying typings are both amazing, synergies well together, and Landorus-I is the only Uber pokemon to get both.


The other thing I wanted to bring up were possible candidates for non Ubers Gods that may be worthy of a rank.
Pretty much just a point of discussion so I won't go on about them too much, just a bit of a list.

Hide

Tyranitar:
Unique Rock / Dark typing.
Great mixed offences and bulk.
Typing gives access to a strong cleric in Umbreon and tonnes of possible megas.
Sits in the As for both OU and Ubers.
Pseudo Legendary.

Terrakion:
Unique Rock / Fighting typing.
S rank Fighting type and Rock type in Monotype.
Its unique typing is amazing for offense.

Mega Diancie:
Unique Rock / Fairy typing.
S rank Fairy type and Rock type in Monotype.
A+ in OU and B+ in Ubers.

Keldeo:
Unique Water / Fighting typing (Poliwrath exists I guess but is completely outclassed).
Previously S rank in OU and one of the best in A+.
S rank Water type and Fighting type in Monotype.

Skarmory:
Unique Steel / Flying typing.
Said typing is epic.
S rank Flying type and Steel type in Monotype.
B+ rank in Ubers.

Azumaril:
Unique Water / Fairy typing.
S rank Water type and Fairy type in Monotype.

Heatran and Ferrothorn may also be good.

 

[dsm77773]

A couple things.

1st thing.
However I don't object to Landorus-I being in the Three Star Rank, I do wander if it could move into the Four Star Rank.
At the end of the day, the meta isn't too different from Standard OU or Monotype, the only differences being each team can have just 1 Uber, and the type restrictions are a little more forgiving. Hence I'd imagine Landorus-I to be a very potent threat. I mean Lando-I is an S rank Flying type in monotype, an S rank Ground type in monotype, and a completely broken pokemon in OU. Surely the opposition having 1 Uber can't take all that away from it. In standard OU, Landorus' only counters were Mega Latias and Cress, meaning if the opponent's God isn't a psychic type, it is guaranteed to be their only hope against Lando. And if it can't take Lando, I doubt anything will be able to. For this reason I could also see Lando being rather anti meta. 8 of the Four Star Gods are out sped by Lando and OHKOed by its Earth Power, as well as having a typing weak to Ground. And if your God can't beat Lando, and isn't part Psychic, you will be fighting a very up hill battle, as you will have 0 guaranteed counters. Primal Groudon is the most likely candidate to become Five Star Rank, and Primal Groudon teams Struggle against Lando-I teams more than any others. Lando's Flying types have a good match up vs Groudon's Ground types, Lando's Ground types have a good match up vs Groudon's Fire types, and Lando beats Groudon 1v1. Ground and Flying are both amazing typings that synergies well together, and only Lando gets it out of the Ubers. The only real draw back is the Ice weakness, but Ice types are even less spashable in this meta, and Thick Fat Mamoswine is a thing that exists.

In Summary:
Landorus-I is a tippy top tier threat in Monotype and standard OU, and hence should still be really strong here.
Landorus-I is actually fairly anti meta.
Ground and Flying typings are both amazing, synergies well together, and Landorus-I is the only Uber pokemon to get both.


The other thing I wanted to bring up were possible candidates for non Ubers Gods that may be worthy of a rank.
Pretty much just a point of discussion so I won't go on about them too much, just a bit of a list.

Hide

Tyranitar:
Unique Rock / Dark typing.
Great mixed offences and bulk.
Typing gives access to a strong cleric in Umbreon and tonnes of possible megas.
Sits in the As for both OU and Ubers.
Pseudo Legendary.

Terrakion:
Unique Rock / Fighting typing.
S rank Fighting type and Rock type in Monotype.
Its unique typing is amazing for offense.

Mega Diancie:
Unique Rock / Fairy typing.
S rank Fairy type and Rock type in Monotype.
A+ in OU and B+ in Ubers.

Keldeo:
Unique Water / Fighting typing (Poliwrath exists I guess but is completely outclassed).
Previously S rank in OU and one of the best in A+.
S rank Water type and Fighting type in Monotype.

Skarmory:
Unique Steel / Flying typing.
Said typing is epic.
S rank Flying type and Steel type in Monotype.
B+ rank in Ubers.

Azumaril:
Unique Water / Fairy typing.
S rank Water type and Fairy type in Monotype.

Heatran and Ferrothorn may also be good.

Mega Latias is a Lando counter because Lando does not typically run Outrage, but as always it can pack it to shake potential counters (Mega Latias this time) leaving only Cress as a true counter as it is not 2HKOed by Knock Off. However, unlike other would-be counters, this time Lando must lock himself in to beat it, so it can be played around.

 

[Jajoken]

A couple things.

1st thing.
However I don't object to Landorus-I being in the Three Star Rank, I do wander if it could move into the Four Star Rank.
At the end of the day, the meta isn't too different from Standard OU or Monotype, the only differences being each team can have just 1 Uber, and the type restrictions are a little more forgiving. Hence I'd imagine Landorus-I to be a very potent threat. I mean Lando-I is an S rank Flying type in monotype, an S rank Ground type in monotype, and a completely broken pokemon in OU. Surely the opposition having 1 Uber can't take all that away from it. In standard OU, Landorus' only counters were Mega Latias and Cress, meaning if the opponent's God isn't a psychic type, it is guaranteed to be their only hope against Lando. And if it can't take Lando, I doubt anything will be able to. For this reason I could also see Lando being rather anti meta. 8 of the Four Star Gods are out sped by Lando and OHKOed by its Earth Power, as well as having a typing weak to Ground. And if your God can't beat Lando, and isn't part Psychic, you will be fighting a very up hill battle, as you will have 0 guaranteed counters. Primal Groudon is the most likely candidate to become Five Star Rank, and Primal Groudon teams Struggle against Lando-I teams more than any others. Lando's Flying types have a good match up vs Groudon's Ground types, Lando's Ground types have a good match up vs Groudon's Fire types, and Lando beats Groudon 1v1. Ground and Flying are both amazing typings that synergies well together, and only Lando gets it out of the Ubers. The only real draw back is the Ice weakness, but Ice types are even less spashable in this meta, and Thick Fat Mamoswine is a thing that exists.

In Summary:
Landorus-I is a tippy top tier threat in Monotype and standard OU, and hence should still be really strong here.
Landorus-I is actually fairly anti meta.
Ground and Flying typings are both amazing, synergies well together, and Landorus-I is the only Uber pokemon to get both.


The other thing I wanted to bring up were possible candidates for non Ubers Gods that may be worthy of a rank.
Pretty much just a point of discussion so I won't go on about them too much, just a bit of a list.

Hide

Tyranitar:
Unique Rock / Dark typing.
Great mixed offences and bulk.
Typing gives access to a strong cleric in Umbreon and tonnes of possible megas.
Sits in the As for both OU and Ubers.
Pseudo Legendary.

Terrakion:
Unique Rock / Fighting typing.
S rank Fighting type and Rock type in Monotype.
Its unique typing is amazing for offense.

Mega Diancie:
Unique Rock / Fairy typing.
S rank Fairy type and Rock type in Monotype.
A+ in OU and B+ in Ubers.

Keldeo:
Unique Water / Fighting typing (Poliwrath exists I guess but is completely outclassed).
Previously S rank in OU and one of the best in A+.
S rank Water type and Fighting type in Monotype.

Skarmory:
Unique Steel / Flying typing.
Said typing is epic.
S rank Flying type and Steel type in Monotype.
B+ rank in Ubers.

Azumaril:
Unique Water / Fairy typing.
S rank Water type and Fairy type in Monotype.

Heatran and Ferrothorn may also be good.

I could see Landorus going to four-star. His initial placement is based on his D rank in Ubers and x4 Ice weakness, but if he proves effective I think that could work. As for the OU Gods, I was actually thinking of several of the same ones. Mega Venusaur is another one I considered, because it's really fat and provides a practically non-existent Grass type and a rare Poison type.

 

[Isa Simple]

Here is a sample team I just made whilst mucking around and exploring Landorus-I a bit more.

Landorus-I Balance

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast / Rock Polish

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 240 Atk / 16 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Freeze-Dry

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Brave Bird

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Crunch

Landorus-I and Mamoswine have the power and coverage to break through the majority of defensive cores, while Mamo also has the added perk of resisting Ice thanks to Thick Fat. Hippowdon and Skarmory are a couple strong blanket checks to give the team a solid back bone. SpD Skarmory was chosen to take on strong Special threats from OU and Ubers such as Gardevoir and Soul Dew Lati@s, while still being able to wall top physical threats like Mega Mawile and MMX. Sand Rush Excadrill is a fantastic cleaner and provides Rapid Spin support. Gyarados is possibly the most important member as it not only acts as another win con, it also uses its typing to act as a very valuable glue pokemon. Pre Mega Gyarados can help with the nasty Fighting weakness, and checks Mega Blaziken, while post Mega it is able to cheat the type restrictions by acting as a 2nd Ice resist. Due to these traits it may be worth going a bulkier spread.
Note that the team is rather weak to Greninja and CB Ho-oH.

Also I think that Greninja is similar to Reshiram and Landorus-I in that however it is bad in Ubers, it still demolishes in OU with very little counters, and a decent dual typing to work with. I think it could possibly move to Three Stars.

 

[TotalAsteroid]

Since I was bored, I felt like looking for OU pokemon that could be used as gods some-what effectively (shut up errors):

Potential OU Gods

Mega Meta might be good since it's banned in both types and was once suspected and in S tierSteel is an amazing type with its ridiculous amount of resists. Psychic is psychic, but it gives him what he needs with amazing support in Mew, Latios (which helps against PDon a lot), Hoopa-U, and Slowbro. Mega Meta can form many teams from Defensive to HO. He's basically the opposite of Slowbro. Might probably have 6PSS. Prediction: 4
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Mega Altaria is Dragon Fairy, S rank in flying and dragon. Would also be S rank Fairy probably
S rank pokemon (and IMO is the best legal pokemon in OU). Fairy is only bad as a mono, but really good as a sub type. Although, a FDS core isn't possible without regular Mawile, though other are definitely possible. Prediction: 2-4
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Mega Lopunny could have a nice surprise factor as a very solid HO/Balance god. Normal Fighting is a very diverse type, with the potential to throw a giant curveball to your team. IDK since I don't know anyone with a team and I don't. Normal Fighting STAB don't hit many things SE, it does hit a lot for neutral and can kill a lot of steel types that will be prominent in this meta. Lopunny destroys Aegi teams with scrappy and can even run a cosmic set to help teammates. The biggest downside is playboy that it's an extremely frail god. Prediction: I have no clue, maybe 3
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Mega Slowbro could also be a really good god. Mega Slowbro is banned in Monotype and is extremely defensive with a deadly CM set. Water Psychic type is a pretty good type with many options. Wish-passing to Slowbro from Alomomola is incredible and many water types are bulky or offensive. Psychics also have a wide variety when not mono with Jirachi to Hoopa. Slowbro can create all teams (besides HO) because of it's type and can withstand massive. It's main weakness is tipping it over speed, as Mega Slowbro has legs, is faster than deoxys-speed, and doesn't have slow in it's name. #sarcasm. Prediction: 4
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Thundurus has two really cool typings in flying and electric, allowing an amazing volt-turn core with his brother tornados-t and other electric types. Prankster TWave is annoying and can prevent opponents from sweeping. Flying helps with the ground weakness with PDon being extremely common and powerful, and electric just hits really hard and fast. A huge weakness is failed attempts at humor frailty. Teams are usually HO with a volt-turn core based on initial analysis. No testing cause I'm too lazy. Prediction: 2-3

I would also like to state a symptom of this meta: 6PSS (Six Party Slots Syndrome), where one team might ruin you without a good counter, but another team will ruin you instead. Happens to me with Dialga, as there's not a consistent check to help Dialga with PDon, Lati@s, etc. Basically 4MSS with a party if that makes sense.
Sorry if this sounds weird, i'm on cold medicine.

 

[Isa Simple]

^ I agree with this 6PSS.

When building a team I noticed that it is almost impossible to have a check to all the big OU threats, and all the potential Ubers too. Especially when you yourself can only have one Uber. 1 Uber + 5 OU mons can't possibly cover every possible Uber and OU threat that you may run into, particularly when some of the Ubers are in that tier simply for having 0 counters in OU.
The team building process is also a lot more complex than monotype. As you are trying to cover up two sets of weaknesses, which depending on which 2 types you have access to, can potentially be far more difficult. Covering a 4x weakness can be particularly hard. Though in certain type combos that cover each other well it can also be easier to clear out any weaknesses.
These two things imo definitely give a sense of 6PSS, as you can't have it all in just 6 pokemon. That said though I actually quite like the 6PSS. It makes the team building process far more exciting and important. It means that great team builders are rewarded for their skills and other players learn to develop their team building skills faster as the meta pressures them to.

EDIT: Also noticed that Arceus Rock is the only Rock type in Ubers. Just another reason to use pokemon like Tyranitar, Diancie and Terrakion.

 

[TheHungrySage]

Alright, I'm not sure if applications are still open, but I would like to apply for the council here.
Although I've only really discovered this meta recently, I think that I could greatly help out here. I am on Smogon for 5+ hours a day, so there's no issue with time here. I also have no real attachment to other councils, so I can prioritize this meta.

I have achieved top 10 in various metas, including 1v1, Anything Goes, Ubers, Balanced Hackmons and Linked, so I don't see any issues with whether or not I can be relied on to correctly judge mons in what is an uber-based meta.

Please consider this application closely.

 

[Jajoken]

Alright, I'm not sure if applications are still open, but I would like to apply for the council here.
Although I've only really discovered this meta recently, I think that I could greatly help out here. I am on Smogon for 5+ hours a day, so there's no issue with time here. I also have no real attachment to other councils, so I can prioritize this meta.

I have achieved top 10 in various metas, including 1v1, Anything Goes, Ubers, Balanced Hackmons and Linked, so I don't see any issues with whether or not I can be relied on to correctly judge mons in what is an uber-based meta.

Please consider this application closely.

The means and requirements for joining the council are in the OP.

Q: How can I apply to be on the GAF council? What does that entail?
A: Just to promote activity and make decisions easier if this OM ever gains legitimacy, I'd like to have 2-4 more people join a newly-assembled council. Mostly you'll be discussing bans, rule changes and viability rankings via PM discussions when the need arises. If you'd like to join, I'm imposing the following restrictions on applications: 1) you must have an approved OM thread posted on this subforum regardless of activity or status, and 2) you must have a minimum of 100 posts on Smogon. If you fit this criteria and are interested in joining, send me a PM and I'll get back to you when I can.