Golduck [QC:2/3] (Written)

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ohkoing it in an 1v1 situation can be invaluable as well as the ability to
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Hidden Power Electric vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Simipour: 221-260 (75.6 - 89%) -- Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Life Orb recoil
makes it worthy of a moves mention in my opinion

252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Simipour in Rain: 226-265 (77.3 - 90.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

That is also (pretty much) a guaranteed ohko in the same situation unless you get absolute min damage (if rain is gone you can set it up then hydro)
 
Overview
##########
- Point 1 is cute, but better not be in your actual write-up for no reason.

Usage Tips:
==========
- Point 1 is more of a Team Options thing than a Usage Tip
- removed banned mon mentions all around

Checks and Counters
===========
- This and Other Options needs ### not ===
- In priority, note that priority Thunder Wave, Encore, and Sunny Day can all stop Golduck in its tracks.

qc approved
2/3


write it up
 
Overview
##########
- Point 1 is cute, but better not be in your actual write-up for no reason.

Usage Tips:
==========
- Point 1 is more of a Team Options thing than a Usage Tip
- removed banned mon mentions all around

Checks and Counters
===========
- This and Other Options needs ### not ===
- In priority, note that priority Thunder Wave, Encore, and Sunny Day can all stop Golduck in its tracks.

qc approved
2/3


write it up

These have been implemented, I'll write it up for real
 
I just slashed Synchronoise instead of Psychic.

Synchronoise is a 120 BP Psychic move that only damages pokemon who share the same typing (poliwrath). It also gives Golduck a much better chance vs other bulky waters like Lapras

Credit goes to crimzig for this genius innovation.
 
Synchronoise has been tried before and has been proven to be worse than Psychic. You hit Poliwrath for some more damage but at the same time you provide a free switch in for literally any Pokemon that is not a Water-type and waste not only rain turns but also your momentum which is terrible on the highly offensive teams Golduck is usually part of.

Also Anty approves of this.
sun-skype-smiley.gif
 
Synchronoise was perhaps just a spur of the moment overhyping. As a rain sweeper (or offensive Pokemon in general), Golduck wants to spend every turn granting free hits things as much as it can, as that's how it maintains its momentum. While you can (potentially) OHKO standard Poliwrath after Rocks, the risk of not hitting anything, completely forgoing your offensive momentum, still exists. If you can create situations where you don't have to reveal Golduck's Psychic coverage move before Poliwrath is sent out, it may work wonders as a surprise factor; anything less than that is heavily reliant on prediction and is taking huge risks for little payoff. Agree with OO.
 
You are right, synchronoise causes too much mind games and can stall out rain turns (especially combined with Poli's water absorb). I'm putting it to OO
 
Overview:
Nitpicky but eh
- Golduck doesn't actually 2HKO /all/ special walls that don't resist Hydro eg. Hypno, Lickilicky, it's an exaggeration
- "major" competition is an overstatement imo, Simipour can't clean late-game as effectively as Golduck can

Moves:
- can you use another mon that's more relevant than Kingler? :L if you can't find anything then you can say that it 2HKOs offensive resists

Set Details:
- be specific when you say it KOs Tangela and Gourgeist: does it OHKO or 2HKO, and which Geist form is it?

Usage Tips:
- "avoid sending Golduck in on rain teams" - ?
- Tauros mention, pls remove

TO:
- Haunter mention
- Heatmor should be replaced with something else as it isn't a top tier wallbreaker and it clashes slightly with Rain Dance
- replace Electrode with something like Relicanth as a RD setter
- Beartic > Floatzel as a SwSw abuser

OO:
- Haunter mention
- when mentioning SubCM, mention that the defensive teams that this set eats up are not very common

Checks and Counters:
- Lickilicky actually isn't 2HKOed after SR because of Leftovers and Protect. Also, you might want to give Grumpig and Hypno mentions because they tank 2 hits and can paralyze Golduck.

ManOfMany
 
Last edited:
Overview:
Nitpicky but eh
- Golduck doesn't actually 2HKO /all/ special walls that don't resist Hydro eg. Hypno, Lickilicky, it's an exaggeration
- "major" competition is an overstatement imo, Simipour can't clean late-game as effectively as Golduck can

Moves:
- can you use another mon that's more relevant than Kingler? :L if you can't find anything then you can say that it 2HKOs offensive resists

Set Details:
- be specific when you say it KOs Tangela and Gourgeist: does it OHKO or 2HKO, and which Geist form is it?

Usage Tips:
- "avoid sending Golduck in on rain teams" - ?
- Tauros mention, pls remove

TO:
- Haunter mention
- Heatmor should be replaced with something else as it isn't a top tier wallbreaker and it clashes slightly with Rain Dance
- replace Electrode with something like Relicanth as a RD setter
- Beartic > Floatzel as a SwSw abuser

OO:
- Haunter mention
- when mentioning SubCM, mention that the defensive teams that this set eats up are not very common

Checks and Counters:
- Lickilicky actually isn't 2HKOed after SR because of Leftovers and Protect. Also, you might want to give Grumpig and Hypno mentions because they tank 2 hits and can paralyze Golduck.

ManOfMany

In the rain it does 2HKO all special walls.

252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky in Rain: 231-274 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even after protect, the chance Lickilicky will live is very small.

The others I will implement.
 
update formatting

[OVERVIEW]
first sentence add beartic
you have to mention that the reason it is fast and threatening, is swift swim.
mention choice scarf users that golduck outspeeds
mention that its bulk isnt that bad, that allows it to set up a rain dance, though it is easily worn down
It also has coverage in psychic and ice beam to beat the common pokemon who can take this combination Hydro Pump, Poliwrath and grass types such as ???.
mention the competition with poliwrath as a swift swim sweeper.
mention that typing is subpar

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
=========
add 2nd sentence after the hydro pump one. also make separate sentences for surf and scald. both surf and scald are more reliable than hydro, but provide less dmg output. also scald allows golduck to burn phys attackers but it loses even more power than surf.
mention grass types that find themselves switchin in on golduck, which ice beam hits.

Set Details
=========
mention that life orb recoil is annoying bc it wears golduck down and can put it in range to be revengekilled
Swift Swim is the necessary nature to grab the speed boost in rain. you prob meant ability right

Usage Tips
==========
mention that when used on a dedicated rain team, it is preferred to switch it in when rain is up.
mention it is effective as a late-game sweeper when checks and counters are weakened, but can also be used early or mid game to open holes into the opposing team or just check a dangerous threat.
mention that even if it has ok bulk, golduck should be still wary about setting up on strong attackers as they can KO it p easily, or just put it in range to be revengekilled or to die by lo recoil
for that reason ^ also mention golduck could be brought in by slow voltturn on favourable matchup, to grant it a free turn
mention more weaker pokemon golduck can set up on, as misdreavus isnt even the best example.
mention hydro pump should be usually spammed as it is its strongest attack.
why should golduck avoid statuses? give reasons.

Team Options
==========
give better examples of wallbreakers and give examples of special walls that switch in on golduck.
mention grass types that can take an ice beam
mention that toxic spikes work great also to wear down special walls.
remove prinplup mention and add more valid water-types that electric and grass types can deal with. also add why other water-types trouble golduck
add better lures to poli leafeon doesnt lure it, poli would never stay in on it lol. also add why poli and roselia trouble golduck
raichu doesnt have its stab moves powered up by rain, remove it and possibly replace w another water-type.


add more content to most checks and counters category, aim for at least 2 lines each.

tag me when you did all this ManOfMany and ill go through it again and possible stamp
 
Done.

What do you think of Psyshock being added as a slash with Psychic? It easily beats Roselia who is an S-rank threat after all along with Poliwrath.

252 SpA Life Orb Golduck Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 52-62 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
+
252 SpA Life Orb Golduck Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Roselia: 229-270 (75.3 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

is a OHKO after rocks. And that's not even in rain.
 
Scarf raichu should be somewhere in c&c lol

also most Roselia run physical defense or offensive spreads and the defenses are nearly even so Psychic does more like 90% of the tie
 
Scarf raichu should be somewhere in c&c lol

also most Roselia run physical defense or offensive spreads and the defenses are nearly even so Psychic does more like 90% of the tie

Well, Psyshock actually does more to all spreads 100% of the time.

Offensive:
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psychic vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Roselia: 182-216 (64.7 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psyshock vs. 160 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Roselia: 250-296 (88.9 - 105.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Specially Defensive:
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psychic vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Roselia: 182-216 (64.7 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psyshock vs. 160 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Roselia: 250-296 (88.9 - 105.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Mixed Defensive:
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psychic vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 143-169 (47 - 55.5%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Eviolite Roselia: 200-237 (65.7 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It can be invaluable because Psyshock will nearly always finish off a Roselia that has switched into a rain-boosted Hydro Pump (the move that Golduck wants to spam), while Psychic will only finish off the offensive set after it switches into hydro pump.
 
It does about 11% less against Poliwrath i believe, could you please post calcs against 252/252+/0 and 252/0/0?
 
Physdef:
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 247-291 (64.3 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 151-179 (39.3 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Doesn't really do much here lol.

Tank:
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psychic vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 247-291 (66.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psyshock vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 211-250 (56.8 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A fairly significant difference, but both 2HKO Poli on the switch, and that's the only way Golduck can beat it anyway.

Rain Dance:
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath in Rain: 168-199 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 112-133 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- 64.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 247-291 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 211-250 (65.7 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Golduck Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Poliwrath: 61-73 (19 - 22.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hydro Pump + either Psychic STAB will take out Rain Dance Poli, but it is worth noting that Ice Beam + Psychic KOs while Ice Beam + Psyshock does not.

The main reason for Psyshock is, Poli gives so much trouble to Golduck due to water absorb that sometimes I'm just like "fuck poli, I'm not beating this thing anyway without some insane mindgames. Might as well hit Roselia harder"
 
I never got 200/0 Poli and always dropped spa investment to be fair and giving up the ability to 2hko the most common Mon in the toer for a stronger hit that doesn't ohko Roselia isn't worth it imo so leave it oo

In c&c replace sdef tangela with roselia

Team options remove the swoobat and put Knock Off simipour or mixed simipour as well as simisage (I'd remove aurorus too)

Remove the memento part
 
I never got 200/0 Poli and always dropped spa investment to be fair and giving up the ability to 2hko the most common Mon in the toer for a stronger hit that doesn't ohko Roselia isn't worth it imo so leave it oo

In c&c replace sdef tangela with roselia

Team options remove the swoobat and put Knock Off simipour or mixed simipour as well as simisage (I'd remove aurorus too)

Remove the memento part

Okay, I'll keep it in OO. Pretty sure that everyone but you uses 252+ SpA Poli so that isn't relevant, but whatever

Roselia is already in C&C but I'll put it at the top because it is a better counter

Sure, I'll put Simipour and Simisage. Thanks, I was kind of drawing a blank on wallbreakers, and at first I thought it wasn't a good idea to put Simipour and Golduck on the same team, but double-water core seems okay.

I'm not removing the memento part, I'll just replace the old memento users with Memento Jumpluff, which is actually really good for set-up sweepers.
 
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