Pokémon Gourgeist

[Zabel Zarock]

No, they won't. It adds Ghost as a second/third type; they keep their original.

Really? Huh. I guess its the wording that put me off.

So I guess that makes Soak a bit better in the long run. But who would use it? I guess its pretty gimmicky if you think about it.

 

[Snaquaza]

You may want to mention how good Gourgeist - Small does his job of spin-blocking (arguably the fastest defensive spinblocker), being able to take out or force out all of them minus offensive Starmie one-on-one thanks to it having an unspinnable subseed. I am currently looking into how useful Frisk can be. Too bad Frisk only works when you are switching in. Will be so much better if it were the other way round.

Until you face Liquid Ooze Tentacruel (seriously I've been using it, it's great at handling things like Ferrothorn, sometimes depending on the team even better than Rain Dish for me at least)

 

[Xargon]

What about:

Gourgeist @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Trick-or-Treat
- Phantom Force
- Pain Split

So the basic strategy is the following:
First use Leech Seed so stacked with leftovers you've got a good ammount of healing each turn.
Then Trick-or-Treat to add ghost type to the foe and strike him with Phantom Force (that is a ghost move and is very effective against ghosts) meanwhile you have an empty turn to recover more life with leech seed and leftovers combined and go on with this.

Pain Split, why?
Well you may have a little HP after a very hard fight, so a new foe is sent on the filed and then.... well Pain Split usually goes first and then you'll almost refull your HP with this + leftovers, and the next move will be leech seed and go on.

With this moveset he should be barely-immortal.

 

[Machi]

Really? Huh. I guess its the wording that put me off.

So I guess that makes Soak a bit better in the long run. But who would use it? I guess its pretty gimmicky if you think about it.

You would ideally use it if your team has a strong dark type to capitalize on the newly added ghost typing, for instance Ttar or Scizor capitalizing on a stronger pursuit. Also looking at ToT, Soak is not necessarily better when ToT can actually compound weaknesses to psychic types. Otherwise, I wouldn't really consider it such a gimmick just that it will be a lot more difficult to use than soak, given that there will obviously be certain switch ins you do not want to grant a ghost typing while others suffer from this greatly. Though the problem now with sub-seed sets is that they never took into account the new Defog mechanics which will put quite a damper on such sets.

 

[Gehenna]

What about:

Gourgeist @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Trick-or-Treat
- Phantom Force
- Pain Split

So the basic strategy is the following:
First use Leech Seed so stacked with leftovers you've got a good ammount of healing each turn.
Then Trick-or-Treat to add ghost type to the foe and strike him with Phantom Force (that is a ghost move and is very effective against ghosts) meanwhile you have an empty turn to recover more life with leech seed and leftovers combined and go on with this.

Pain Split, why?
Well you may have a little HP after a very hard fight, so a new foe is sent on the filed and then.... well Pain Split usually goes first and then you'll almost refull your HP with this + leftovers, and the next move will be leech seed and go on.

With this moveset he should be barely-immortal.

I really doubt someone is going to leave in a mon for you to trick or treat, charge a turn for phantom force, and THEN get hit.

 

[Bugzy]

Until you face Liquid Ooze Tentacruel (seriously I've been using it, it's great at handling things like Ferrothorn, sometimes depending on the team even better than Rain Dish for me at least)

This. Liquid ooze tentacruel is probably going to become more common. The weather nerf makes rain dish less appealing and he can learn infestation to trap and kill things like ferrothorn.

Infestation may not be able to trap gourgeist but a liquid ooze tentacruel would still force him out.

 

[zferolie]

I fought one last night for the first time... AND IT IS SO GOSH DARN CUTE! I want to use one in one of the teams I make.

I think, while having a very stalled/healing based one could work, as has been stated, Liquid Ooze can kill it. Not saying not use those moves because of that ability though.

WHy hasn't some people been talking about Flame Charge? GOes off it's good Attack, hits steels hard, and boosts her speed. This would be great on either large or giant sized ones! That, Seed Bomb, and either Shadow Sneak or Phantom Force would work very well together. Gyro Ball or leech seed as last move?

 

[Bugzy]

I fought one last night for the first time... AND IT IS SO GOSH DARN CUTE! I want to use one in one of the teams I make.

I think, while having a very stalled/healing based one could work, as has been stated, Liquid Ooze can kill it. Not saying not use those moves because of that ability though.

WHy hasn't some people been talking about Flame Charge? GOes off it's good Attack, hits steels hard, and boosts her speed. This would be great on either large or giant sized ones! That, Seed Bomb, and either Shadow Sneak or Phantom Force would work very well together. Gyro Ball or leech seed as last move?

Flame charge is pretty interesting actually. I didn't realize he could learn that.

I'm very surprised I really thought trevenant would be the better grass/ghost but it seems like this guy outclasses him. Kind of disappointing I like trevenants design more.

 

[Shroomisaur]

I fought one last night for the first time... AND IT IS SO GOSH DARN CUTE! I want to use one in one of the teams I make.

Couldn't agree with you more here, that's actually what inspired me to create this thread :)

I think, while having a very stalled/healing based one could work, as has been stated, Liquid Ooze can kill it. Not saying not use those moves because of that ability though.

Any set is going to have counters and Liquid Ooze Tentacruel will counter any drain-based set. But that doesn't meed the set isn't viable; Sub-seed is still small Gourgeist's best bet!

WHy hasn't some people been talking about Flame Charge? GOes off it's good Attack, hits steels hard, and boosts her speed. This would be great on either large or giant sized ones! That, Seed Bomb, and either Shadow Sneak or Phantom Force would work very well together. Gyro Ball or leech seed as last move?

First of all, it obviously makes no sense at all to have Flame Charge and Gyro Ball on the same set. Secondly, I already addressed Flame Charge in a previous post. It's 50 power non-STAB and does pitiful damage even though Gourgeist's attack is much higher:

0 Atk (custom) Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 104-124 (29.54 - 35.22%) -- possible 4HKO
0 SpA (custom) Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 152-180 (43.18 - 51.13%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also Super Size Gourgeist is so slow that it would take 2-3 boosts to actually outspeed things. No opponent is going to give you that many free turns... on top of that, there's no reason to boost your speed if you're using Shadow Sneak since it has priority anyway. The only other physical options Gourgeist has are Seed Bomb and Phantom Force, which is awful since it locks you in. So unfortunately, without a better physical movepool, Gourgeist should focus on being a team player rather than trying to boost with Flame Charge.

 

[zferolie]

Couldn't agree with you more here, that's actually what inspired me to create this thread :)


Any set is going to have counters and Liquid Ooze Tentacruel will counter any drain-based set. But that doesn't meed the set isn't viable; Sub-seed is still small Gourgeist's best bet!

First of all, it obviously makes no sense at all to have Flame Charge and Gyro Ball on the same set. Secondly, I already addressed Flame Charge in a previous post. It's 50 power non-STAB and does pitiful damage even though Gourgeist's attack is much higher:

0 Atk (custom) Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 104-124 (29.54 - 35.22%) -- possible 4HKO
0 SpA (custom) Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 152-180 (43.18 - 51.13%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also Super Size Gourgeist is so slow that it would take 2-3 boosts to actually outspeed things. No opponent is going to give you that many free turns... on top of that, there's no reason to boost your speed if you're using Shadow Sneak since it has priority anyway. The only other physical options Gourgeist has are Seed Bomb and Phantom Force, which is awful since it locks you in. So unfortunately, without a better physical movepool, Gourgeist should focus on being a team player rather than trying to boost with Flame Charge.

As a fan of ghost pokemon and cute pokemon, Gourgeist is the best of both worlds!

I didn't mean to say the sub set wasn't valid, I was just saying it has counters, like any set will. I like the sub seed set for small Gourgeist.

And I missed your thoughts on FLame CHarge, my bad. That being said, I forgot that Gyro ball worked on your speed vs their speed. Derp. And I still think you can run Shadow sneak with a Flame Charging set. Even after 1-2 flame charges pokemon will still be faster, like you said, so having something to speed you up is nice. And what would happen if you run a Max attack EV with a positive nature with flame charge? I'm just curious.

I think once people figure out all his egg moves, we will know what possible physical moves she gets. And who knows, maybe they will introduce Move tutors through special WiFi events to give us access to more moves.

 

[poutowz]

I'm raising a Gourgeist(Super Sized), Careful Nature. EV: 252 HP/ 252 SP. Def/ 6 Speed
What are your recommendations on how to use it correctly in battle to it's greatest potential? Fairly new to the competitive nature of the Pokémon games, so I'm trying to get the most out of them so I figured I'd ask. Thanks.

Add trick-or-treat and shadow ball for sure, i'd also give it a quick claw, just in case.

 

[Parasoul]

I'm definitely going to run a Trick Room Gourgeist. My team consists of Aegislash, Malamar, Tyranitar, Gourgeist and Goodra so far. I'm considering making my last a heavy hitting speed sweeper. Not sure who to use yet though.

Gourgeist was just way too cute to pass up. Same with Inkay/Malamar.

 

[GLS]

My Gourgeist build has slowly started to blend the Sub-seed and jack O lantern of all trades mentalities. The EVs and Seed Bomb from the Jack O lantern set, with small size, SubSeed and WoW. But running Jolly nature. I've found it really messes with Megastoise since everyone apparently has fallen in love with megalauncher enough to run Dragon Pulse instead of ice beam and no dark pulse, can handle liquid ooze Tentacruel with a fairly strong Seed Bomb even if it's neutral. Just gotta switch out if you come across a ferrothorn. I do run with sticky web support though so that's part of it.

I just enjoy the options it gives me.

 

[uberpwnage13]

I tried breeding my Venusaur with Petal Blizzard with my Trevenant to try to chain breed a Gourgeist with Petal Blizzard. Unfortunately, it seems that Trevenant cannot learn Petal Blizzard, so I'm gonna have to try other Pokemon. The only Pokemon with Petal Blizzard are in the Grass and Fairy egg groups, while Gourgeist is Amorphous. The only Grass/Amorphous is the Trevenant line (which, as I said above, cannot learn Petal Blizzard through breeding), while the only Fairy/Amorphous is Castform. In fact, the only Pokemon that are in Amorphous and another group are the Trevenant line, Castform, Stunfisk (Water 1), the Cofagrigus line (Mineral), and the Gastrodon line (Water 1). Unless any of these can learn Petal Blizzard through breeding, than it's out of the question for Gourgeist.

 

[Shroomisaur]

I tried breeding my Venusaur with Petal Blizzard with my Trevenant to try to chain breed a Gourgeist with Petal Blizzard. Unfortunately, it seems that Trevenant cannot learn Petal Blizzard, so I'm gonna have to try other Pokemon. The only Pokemon with Petal Blizzard are in the Grass and Fairy egg groups, while Gourgeist is Amorphous. The only Grass/Amorphous is the Trevenant line (which, as I said above, cannot learn Petal Blizzard through breeding), while the only Fairy/Amorphous is Castform. In fact, the only Pokemon that are in Amorphous and another group are the Trevenant line, Castform, Stunfisk (Water 1), the Cofagrigus line (Mineral), and the Gastrodon line (Water 1). Unless any of these can learn Petal Blizzard through breeding, than it's out of the question for Gourgeist.

Yeah, I'm a bit mystified that Gourgeist is solely Amorphous and yet Trevenant is Amorphous + Grass egg groups. Either way, from what you've said here and from what myself and others in the Gourgeist research thread have tested, it seems like Gourgeist doesn't get any big ticket egg moves (no recover, synthesis, or moonlight) and apparently no cool grass moves through Trev either. The only one I've yet to try is Sleep Powder but I doubt that one will work. Kinda a bummer that Gamefreak trolled Gourgeist with attacking stats that are completely mis-aligned compared to its movepool.

I'm definitely going to run a Trick Room Gourgeist. My team consists of Aegislash, Malamar, Tyranitar, Gourgeist and Goodra so far. I'm considering making my last a heavy hitting speed sweeper. Not sure who to use yet though.

Gourgeist was just way too cute to pass up. Same with Inkay/Malamar.

Super Size Gourgeist makes an excellent Trick Room starter (and definitely earns your team style points)! Its TR abilities seem overlooked, but it actually has a great movepool for that role (including Explosion) which is why I created a set dedicated to it in the OP. Good luck with it, and don't forget to share your feedback and experiences!

 

[Parasoul]

Super Size Gourgeist makes an excellent Trick Room starter (and definitely earns your team style points)! Its TR abilities seem overlooked, but it actually has a great movepool for that role (including Explosion) which is why I created a set dedicated to it in the OP. Good luck with it, and don't forget to share your feedback and experiences!

I've been breeding some Super Sized Brave Natured ones. Hoping for a Shiny at about five boxes in. I'll keep you up to date when I give up.

 

[Kriptini]

I'm thinking about adding Gourgeist or Trevenant to my team because I need something that can eat Earhquakes while also baiting my foes into using Fire (because I have a Flash Fire Arcanine). Could someone explain to me how/why SubSeeding works? I want to do it, but I feel like most Pokes will just break the sub on a smaller Gourgeist and I'd be better off running Protect.

 

[Machi]

I'm thinking about adding Gourgeist or Trevenant to my team because I need something that can eat Earhquakes while also baiting my foes into using Fire (because I have a Flash Fire Arcanine). Could someone explain to me how/why SubSeeding works? I want to do it, but I feel like most Pokes will just break the sub on a smaller Gourgeist and I'd be better off running Protect.

Sub-seed is essentially Gourgeist setting up on a slower pokemon that it has a good type advantage against, being ghost and grass it would have potentially had an easy time setting up on fighting types or ground/rock, it would use the opportunity it has to set up a substitute and proceed to leech seed the switch in. Substitute is used over protect because of reliability, don't worry so much about your substitute breaking because you essentially recover enough HP from left overs + leech seed to easily create a new sub.

What made Gourgeist very viable in this regard was that the small version still had good defense ontop of its ghost typing. Adding to that Gourgeist has other good support moves in the form of WoW or ToT to screw over a switch in that it couldn't likely sub-seed for your other mons to capitalize on.

The problem with sub-seeding in light of the new defog mechanics is that the attempt to rapid spin was the most viable way of setting up sub-seed without much fear of retaliation, while conveniently spin blocking. However, with defog mechanics now removing all forms of hazards and being distributed towards flying types, of which Gourgeist is clearly not keen on taking on, I find it becomes difficult to sub-seed since keeping residual damage on the field is not as easy.

 

[Kriptini]

Sub-seed is essentially Gourgeist setting up on a slower pokemon that it has a good type advantage against, being ghost and grass it would have potentially had an easy time setting up on fighting types or ground/rock, it would use the opportunity it has to set up a substitute and proceed to leech seed the switch in. What made Gourgeist very viable in this regard was that the small version still had good defense ontop of its ghost typing. Adding to that Gourgeist has other good support moves in the form of WoW or ToT to screw over a switch in that it couldn't likely sub-seed for your other mons to capitalize on.

The problem with sub-seeding in light of the new defog mechanics is that the attempt to rapid spin was the most viable way of setting up sub-seed without much fear of retaliation, while conveniently spin blocking. However, with defog mechanics now removing all forms of hazards and being distributed towards flying types, of which Gourgeist is clearly not keen on taking on, I find it becomes difficult to sub-seed since keeping residual damage on the field is not as easy.

So for a team that doesn't like to rely on entry hazards, do you think I would be better off with a different Gourgeist set, or using Trevenant/Rotom-W?

(Though really I would like to use Gourgeist, he's just so cool!)

 

[Machi]

So for a team that doesn't like to rely on entry hazards, do you think I would be better off with a different Gourgeist set, or using Trevenant/Rotom-W?

(Though really I would like to use Gourgeist, he's just so cool!)

I wouldn't really use sub-seed on a team that doesn't rely as much on hazards, because the strategy if pulled off correctly will force a lot of switches on the side of the opponent which wracks up residual damage.

Edit: If you do not plan on using hazards it would be viable to look into a team that either uses Sticky web or Thunderwave support since out speeding your opponent would help you to set up much easier.

So likely I think you'd be relying more on the Super-size variant on a team not exactly reliant on hazards, this is just my opinion. Even then... I find Super size Gour and Trev to be more of trick room mons than anything, so I'd look into sets that fit into such teams. With regard to Rotom... he is very good but I find you're comparing apples and oranges here in bringing him up.

 

[Kriptini]

I wouldn't really use sub-seed on a team that doesn't rely as much on hazards, because the strategy if pulled off correctly will force a lot of switches on the side of the opponent which wracks up residual damage.

So likely I think you'd be relying more on the Super-size variant on a team not exactly reliant on hazards, this is just my opinion. Even then... I find Super size Gour and Trev to be more of trick room mons than anything, so I'd look into sets that fit into such teams. With regard to Rotom... he is very good but I find you're comparing apples and oranges here in bringing him up.

The reason why I bring Rotom-W up is because the Pokemon I pick for this slot only needs to fill these requirements:

• Can eat Earthquakes
• Is Ghost type

After those requirements are met, really it's just about picking the best option. (I do run Sticky Web support, so Speed isn't that big of a deal to me.)

 

[Machi]

The reason why I bring Rotom-W up is because the Pokemon I pick for this slot only needs to fill these requirements:

• Can eat Earthquakes
• Is Ghost type

After those requirements are met, really it's just about picking the best option. (I do run Sticky Web support, so Speed isn't that big of a deal to me.)

Rotom-W is not ghost type and it acts more as a pivot than the way Trev or Gour act.

 

[Kriptini]

Rotom-W is not ghost type

Oh right. Derp. I think I'll have to get creative with Gourgeist sets, then.

 

[Green]

I have a Shiny female Impish Supersize Gourgeist, and now I'm trying to breed a Careful Supersize (hopefully shiny) Gourgeist.

I prefer Gourgeist over Trevenant on every level, he's probably one of my new favorite pokemon.

 

[zferolie]

Say, she can breed with the Ralts family. Can she get Wish, Leaf Blade, or Psycho Cut? And from Trenaunt, did you guys try horn leech?(missed if you guys tried)