ORAS OU Grenade Goes Boom! - A Balanced Team (Hit OU Top 30)

Hello, everyone

I'm back for my second rmt and am really excited about this one. The following team is probably one of my most solid and successful OR/AS teams, getting me to the top 30 on my alt TheMundane, as well as in and out (hax I love you) of the top 100 on my main, lol.

It basically is built around the offensive core of Gallade + Greninja, what I like to call, Grenade. Without further ado, let's hop right in!

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After looking at Round 14 of CZ's thread on OU Teambuilding, I thought it would be fun to make a successful team around the Grenade core. So naturally, Greninja and Gallade were the first two members of my team. What's great about Grenade is that they beat each other's checks and counters and plow through offensive and defensive teams.

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Next up, I wanted a check to Talonflame, as well as a pivot able to check rain and sand, all of which make quick work of the Grenade core. Rotom-W fitted the bill and was thus added to the squad. It provides useful Volt Switch support, allowing Grenade to explode on the right targets. (See what I did there?)

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Looking at the team at this point, I immediately saw a glaring Mega Sableye weakness, as it walls Gallade and can beat Greninja thanks to CM + Recover, as well as set up on Rotom-W. For that reason, I added Clefable to my team. Clef is my go to Mega Sableye stop, status absorber, potential win con late-game and much more. It provides my team with good bulk and support.

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The team up to here was looking great, except for the fact that DD Zard X completely decimates it after a boost. Therefore, a revenge killer was needed and that rk had to be Landorus-Therian. Lando-T is just too good. It intimidates things, revenge kills threats like Zard X and the rare QD Volcarona, and checks the hell out of literally nearly everything in OR/AS, be that megas, other stuff, other other stuff, etc.

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= Ayeee not even bad tho

Not having hazard control could prove to be really bad for Grenade. Also, hazards were needed to break sashes and turn 2hko's into ohko's. Who the hell sets up and removes hazards and doesn't suck ass(Donphan)? Ah! Empoleon. Yep, Emp is the final member of my team, and a pretty good one at that. It phazes, defogs, sets up rocks, and burns everything with Scald. It adds much needed bulk to the team, too. Need I say more?

So that was the process behind the construction of this team. Now, let's get into the fun stuff!
The end goal of this team is either one of the following:

The first is a Clefable sweep; the second is a Grenade clean-up.

Clefable Sweep:
  • Grenade works in unison to wear down and/or eliminate key members of the opposing team that are able to stop Clefable, paving the way for it to sweep late-game. Rotom-W, Landorus-T and Empoleon pivot in on threats to both the Grenade and Clefable and can then cripple/weaken them effectively.
Grenade Clean-up:
  • Lando-T, Rotom-W, and Clefable wear down and wittle the opposition with volt-turn and in Clefable's case, Calm Mind-boosted attacks, to allow Grenade to clean up, and Grenade can do this easily thanks to their power and coverage. Empoleon supports the struggle by setting up rocks and removing hazards to help with the wear-down as well as lengthen Grenade's field time.

A Closer Look:

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Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe --> 92 Atk / 164 SpA / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Low Kick

Ah, Greninja. The first 1/2 of Grenade <3. I mean, what's there not to love about this menace? It hits the whole damn tier super effectively and outspeeds nearly every unboosted thing. It takes souls. It cracks skulls. It doesn't care about team match up. It is the best mon of OU. This is why I run the frog.

Anyways, for its moves, I went with the new age/hipster mix of Gunk Shot to kill fairies and hit things like Keldeo extremely hard, Ice Beam for defogging dragons/birds and for grass types, Dark Pulse for psychic types like Jirachi and Mew, and finally Low Kick to 2hko Ferro, ohko KB and Tran after rocks, ohko Bisharp, obliterate opposing Empoleon, and just to have fun. 40 Atk EVs are for the ohko on Azumarill with Gunk Shot and to add more kick to low kick. Max speed to speed tie with opposing Gren's and outspeed most of OU, rest in SpA to power up the two special attacks.

Edit: Using the spread suggested by Soulblaster as this allows Gren to ohko Heatran after rocks. I like the spread and Heatran is annoying. I'll see how things go :]

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Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt

The second 1/2 of Grenade is here <3. Mmm, this thing is tasty- junk food tasty. *A-hem*, so this mon right here does one thing: It comes in and sweeps everything, ngaf while at it. In on Lati? Goes for the speed tie, wins it. Rotom comes in? SD's, dodges the willo, wins. Landorus T? Kills it with Close Combat. Fairies? Flinches to death. It just doesn't give a damn.

On a more serious note, though, M-Gallade is my team's premier wall breaker, destroying even the bulkiest of walls after an SD (Rip Skarmory). It breaks down fat mons and weakens cores so the team can clean up, and it does this quite well.

CC is used to obliterate non resists and is extremely powerful even without an SD. Zen Headbutt liquidates the Fighting-resists that care not for CC and has a decent chance to flinch. (Can't go wrong with the flinch chance, son) Knock Off complements the first two moves, decimating Psychic types and removing items from checks. Finally, SD is the wallbreaking button that turns Gallade M-Luke-like. With its coverage and power, switch-ins better be counters unless they want to evaporate (science).

The EVs are fairly standard: max attack to break shit and max speed to outspeed everything up to base 110's, which it can at the very least speed tie with. Yeah so this monster is definitely the BOOM! Of the Grenade.

...The rest of the team basically supports Grenade so yeah there's the team.
Jk, lol. Moving on..

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Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 124 SpD / 48 Spd --> 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

The most .jpeg mon one team can have but I dun care; it is so good and so consistent so screw you innovators. Lol. Anyways, Rotom-W is the support and the synergy of the team. It burns shit with Will-O-Wisp, pivots in on things thanks to its amazing typing, bulk and resistances, and safely brings the Grenade in on something to explode via Volt Switch.

Shout out to alexwolf for the spread; it allows Rotom to: check Gren if it absolutely has to (tanks 2 Dark Pulses after rocks), With the EV's, Rotom outspeeds max speed jolly Azu and checks Talonflame reliably, which is its main job. Yeah, so Rotom checks Tflame, sand, rain, physical things, blah, blah. Moving on...

EDIT: Changed Rotom-W's EV spread to that suggested by Albacore as this helps with birdspam -and SCIZOR WHICH IS A BIG-ASS THREAT. Plus, Greninja is already handled by Emp + Scarf Lando. (There are painful memories of a Tflame sweep due to weakened Rotom :|)

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Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower (gotta love 100% accuracy and CONSISTENCY)
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled

Clefable is the win con (lol, like this team needs one hehebwoii) of the team, status-absorber, as well as the glue, checking things that threaten Grenade like fast-ass MLopunny, MSceptile, MegaMan, and others. It also beats MSableye rather reliably. EVs give Clef good mixed bulk so it can check the afformentioned threats, avoiding 2HKO's and what not. Yeah. I went with a CM set cuz win con, duh. Fire Blast over Flamethrower is a really long story but in short: steels like to come in on clef-> fire blast is used on switch -> ded steel type. Flamethrower is for steel types and fairy resists. Moonblast hits everything (except Heatran) Flamethrower doesn't and is nice because of STAB. Calm Mind makes Clef unbreakable on the special side after a few boosts and is run to stallbreak and sweep teams. Finally, Softboiled keeps Clefable healthy so that it can reliably support Grenade throughout their endeavors. Forward, we go....

EDIT: As suggested by ShadowGuy1, Flamethrower replaces Fire Miss. It is > Fire Blast because it hits all the intended targets and has more pp and full accuracy, so run Flamethrower, ok?

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Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 Def / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Explosion

I KNOW THIS IS SUPER STANDARD .JPEG AND I DONT CARE SO CAN YOU STOP JUDGING ME? Saying I don't care yet asking you to stop judging me in CAPS.... objection?

So this is the teams' revenge killer. Intimidate + an electric and ground immunity is a must have on teams imo, and Lando provides my team with that. Explosion is for threats I need weakened / ded asap. Standard edgequake is standard, hitting sand teams, birdspam, and random shit neutrally if not super effectively. U-turn is for momentum, forming the voltturn combination with Rotom and bringing Grenade in, nice n safely. I run Jolly to outspeed Adamant Zard X at +1. EVs to outspeed jolly Excadrill by one point, max attack to maximize damage, and the rest in defense for added bulk. Yep. On to the final member..

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Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Roar

Empoleon is the hazard control center. It carries out all rock and spike removal operations as well as rock-installation ops. Rocks and spikes may cause the Grenade to malfunction and not go BOOM! so this mon was needed.

Physically defensive Emp is my penguin of choice mainly because it can be a tertiary (that's third) bird check after Rotom-W and Lando-T, and a check to DDnite/zard if things get ugly (by roaring them out, naturally). Emp also checks opposing Greninja nicely and makes for a great Lati switch-in.

Scald is Emp's way of dealing damage (and burning things) and it hits rather hard thanks to Emp's great special attack. Roar is for phazing teams and soft-checking some set up mons. It is fantastic on Emp because it can very easily phaze thanks to its handy resistances and immunities. This thing is just pure gold.

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So there you have it, folks! This is the team. Below, you will find some replays, threats to the team, proof of peak, and the importable.

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<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS!

Some of these replays showcase some different sets on the team, but I sometimes go back and forth with move sets and what not, plus a lot of this was pre mence ban so yeah. Enjoy.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-186975034
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-186941524
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-186954668
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-187999888
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-186944070
^ this match tho!! Too close

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Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 92 Atk / 164 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick
- Dark Pulse

Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 Def / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Explosion

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Roar

I'd greatly appreciate your feedback and rates. Really enjoyed building and using this team and hope you enjoy stealing using it, too.

:]
 
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Oh, one more thing, maybe run Jolly over Naive on Landorus-T? You don't have HP Ice, so I don't see the use in having it be Naive. I'm probably going to run Knock Off over Explosion as well, because I'm too scared to use Explosion most of the time, but I can see the value of Explosion (especially if you're at low health and need to get extra damage off before you go down).
 
Oh, one more thing, maybe run Jolly over Naive on Landorus-T? You don't have HP Ice, so I don't see the use in having it be Naive. I'm probably going to run Knock Off over Explosion as well, because I'm too scared to use Explosion most of the time, but I can see the value of Explosion (especially if you're at low health and need to get extra damage off before you go down).

Fixed, haha. It was supposed to be Jolly xD... And yes Knock Off or even Superpower are both very viable options. (SP for mlop) I just run Explosion because living life on the fast lane, etc.
Thanks once again!
 
First, team looks super amazing. Solid offensive core, and you're making me jealous for not having done it first >.>
New age greninja actually hits your team fairly hard, and your checks are lando T , rotom w, and greninja half of the time for speed ties...that's not horrible, but I'm still kinda iffy because I've found that rotom isn't horribly difficult to weaken.

Love how you said explosion Landorus T is standard, but I think it works p well here. A question to always ask yourself on scarf landoT is if you really need the extra power of edge vs the accuracy of slide. You might lose a couple guaranteed KOs, but that 10% can save a lot of games from a talonflame sweep or something.
I'll try to give more stuff to consider later, but it's almost 10 and I'm tired :c
Gl with the team!
 
First, team looks super amazing. Solid offensive core, and you're making me jealous for not having done it first >.>
New age greninja actually hits your team fairly hard, and your checks are lando T , rotom w, and greninja half of the time for speed ties...that's not horrible, but I'm still kinda iffy because I've found that rotom isn't horribly difficult to weaken.

Love how you said explosion Landorus T is standard, but I think it works p well here. A question to always ask yourself on scarf landoT is if you really need the extra power of edge vs the accuracy of slide. You might lose a couple guaranteed KOs, but that 10% can save a lot of games from a talonflame sweep or something.
I'll try to give more stuff to consider later, but it's almost 10 and I'm tired :c
Gl with the team!

Thanks for reading through the whole thing. As far as Gren checks, Empoleon also checks ninja too so that's 4/6ths of the team right there. (Healthy M-Gallade checks Gren too :D) Idk if new age low kick gren is super famous now but I can scout for it if Emp is in. Or get predicted and 2hkod, which is cool too haha.

Rock Slide may be > Stone Edge as I'm p sure It ohko's Tflame, real zard y's or zard x's not m-evolving trying to dd on a predicted eq, and volcarona. I might just run that tbh. Losing games to stone miss is always salt inducing. Truly appreciate your feedback and thnx once again :]

Edit: Because I have Rotom W as my initial birdie check, Stone Edge is fine to hit opposing scarf land t's hard-ish and for better damage on neutral targets. idk, feelin real with Stone edge. It hasn't let me down yet it hasn't let me down too much.
 
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lol "Grenade" why didn't I think of that.

But yeah, very good team. Gallade+Greninja is just a really good core, I should know. I don't really have many objections to this team since there's not much that could improve it, I'm mostly going to pint out weakensses and suggest changes you might want to try: You have a few slight weaknesses which aren't really problems for you but can be annoying I guess : Keldeo could be a threat to your team if you don't know the set, but if it's specs Gallade checks it and if it's scarf Clefable walls it. Still, can be tricky to deal with. Bisharp looks annoying for your team too as you mentioned, if it gets to +2 it literally mows through your whole team. Nothing on your team necessarily lets it set up for free, but more often than not it will force Clefable out (as well as Lando-T if it locks itself into the wrong move) which is a problem. If this becomes a problem you could run Substitute on Gallade but you really want all 4 moves : CC is CC, SD is amazing obviously, Zen Headbutt is required for MVenu, and though Knock Off is probably the move you can afford to drop the most since Psychics are, for the most part, handled by Greninja, its utility is just too good. If you want to be cool and hipster you could run substitute on Scarf Landorus Greninja but you probably don't want to compromise that excellent coverage. If there's any move you can afford to remove it's Low Kick since most of its targets are eaten alive by Gallade anyway.

Mega-Scizor is a problem, thankfully you do have Rotom-W who checks most variants. Offensive Big Bite Scizor is a huge problem, but it's not terribly common and Lando-T can slow it down if need be. I would just run 212 Phys Def on Rotom-W though, since you aren't terribly weak to Greninja : Empoleon handles most Greninjas okay (Low Kick is common but your spread actually takes 2 of them), and you still have Scarf Lando-T. I think being able to switch into Pinsir, Talonflame, Bisharp, and Mega-Scizor better trumps the advantages of SpD on Rotom-W in this case. Particularly, SD Talonflame can just get an SD up on Clefable, and if Rotom-W is weakened to a point where +2 Brave Bird KOs it you're in trouble. You need as much phys def as you can to stop this from happening imo.

just to give you an idea :

+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 121-143 (39.8 - 47%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Rotom-W: 135-159 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Rotom-W: 283-334 (93 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 255-300 (83.8 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(that doesn't look like too big a difference but when it comes to rotom-w every bit of bulk counts)

Other threats : DD MAltaria could be a problem but depending on whether it's running EQ or Sub/Heal Bell, but Rotom-W burns the former and Empoleon phazes the latter so I wouldn't wprry too much. YZard as you said is a threat because it switches in on Clefable or Empoleon and then something literally just dies. Simplest way to fix this would be just running a Lati but you probably can't fit one on your team. You could potentially run Toxic over Roar on Empoleon to hit it on the switch (this lets you deal with Greninja a lot better too) but then you have a harder time dealing with Clefable and kinda just lose to Sub Altaria which is problematic. Don't really think there's a good way to fix this, you can always rely on you faster mons to revenge kill it though.

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Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt

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Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Substitute

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Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

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Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Toxic

Good team overall, not much else to say.
 
lol "Grenade" why didn't I think of that.

But yeah, very good team. Gallade+Greninja is just a really good core, I should know. I don't really have many objections to this team since there's not much that could improve it, I'm mostly going to pint out weakensses and suggest changes you might want to try: You have a few slight weaknesses which aren't really problems for you but can be annoying I guess : Keldeo could be a threat to your team if you don't know the set, but if it's specs Gallade checks it and if it's scarf Clefable walls it. Still, can be tricky to deal with. Bisharp looks annoying for your team too as you mentioned, if it gets to +2 it literally mows through your whole team. Nothing on your team necessarily lets it set up for free, but more often than not it will force Clefable out (as well as Lando-T if it locks itself into the wrong move) which is a problem. If this becomes a problem you could run Substitute on Gallade but you really want all 4 moves : CC is CC, SD is amazing obviously, Zen Headbutt is required for MVenu, and though Knock Off is probably the move you can afford to drop the most since Psychics are, for the most part, handled by Greninja, its utility is just too good. If you want to be cool and hipster you could run substitute on Scarf Landorus Greninja but you probably don't want to compromise that excellent coverage. If there's any move you can afford to remove it's Low Kick since most of its targets are eaten alive by Gallade anyway.

Mega-Scizor is a problem, thankfully you do have Rotom-W who checks most variants. Offensive Big Bite Scizor is a huge problem, but it's not terribly common and Lando-T can slow it down if need be. I would just run 212 Phys Def on Rotom-W though, since you aren't terribly weak to Greninja : Empoleon handles most Greninjas okay (Low Kick is common but your spread actually takes 2 of them), and you still have Scarf Lando-T. I think being able to switch into Pinsir, Talonflame, Bisharp, and Mega-Scizor better trumps the advantages of SpD on Rotom-W in this case. Particularly, SD Talonflame can just get an SD up on Clefable, and if Rotom-W is weakened to a point where +2 Brave Bird KOs it you're in trouble. You need as much phys def as you can to stop this from happening imo.

just to give you an idea :

+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 121-143 (39.8 - 47%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Rotom-W: 135-159 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Rotom-W: 283-334 (93 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 255-300 (83.8 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(that doesn't look like too big a difference but when it comes to rotom-w every bit of bulk counts)

Other threats : DD MAltaria could be a problem but depending on whether it's running EQ or Sub/Heal Bell, but Rotom-W burns the former and Empoleon phazes the latter so I wouldn't wprry too much. YZard as you said is a threat because it switches in on Clefable or Empoleon and then something literally just dies. Simplest way to fix this would be just running a Lati but you probably can't fit one on your team. You could potentially run Toxic over Roar on Empoleon to hit it on the switch (this lets you deal with Greninja a lot better too) but then you have a harder time dealing with Clefable and kinda just lose to Sub Altaria which is problematic. Don't really think there's a good way to fix this, you can always rely on you faster mons to revenge kill it though.

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Gallade (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt

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Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Substitute

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Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

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Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
- Toxic

Good team overall, not much else to say.

Thanks so much for the rate! Yeah I'm definitely going with your Rotom-W suggestion as that helps the team a lot and Gren is for the most part handled.

As for Zard Y, it's just "that mon that destroys my team" kinda thing, haha. Yeah I guess just revenging it is the go to option, sadly. Though I try to never let it m evolve by Lando t + gren + Roar on switch in + doubles + rocks, *nervous laughter* so it's all good.

Bisharp can be a prob too but for the most part it is handled by gren (takes +2 sucker at good health if not LO), possibly Empoleon and healthy Gallade. If it's LO and at +2, I think I just lose so that's really fun. (gren has a 25% chance to get ohko'd from +2 LO Sucker Punch) Nah son, I outplay and predict all the suckers with M-Gall. Ez though I think it doesn't really get to set up on the team for free...right? *nervous sweats*

Edit: It has been done. Outplaying Bish is EZ PZ, lol.

I appreciate the Emp suggestion of Toxic, though I believe Roar is invaluable for those random Scolipass noobs users and just BP in general. Plus CM Clef and other CM'ers. :]

If Bish becomes too much, I may run your suggestion of sub Gren or sub Gallade cuz the latter can set up on stuff that likes to status (Rotom w going for willo, random t wave?) as well as, like you said, deal with Bish. Appreciate your insight and feedback, man. :]
 
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"forgot about close combat" rofl
You could run a bulky landorus t to fix your charizard x problem. It can still use explosion too. Jolly Zard x pretty much destroys that team, and although its kind of silent thanks to post mence trauma meta and ORAS mega hype, it will undoubtedly rise back to prominence. I kinda prefer defensive landorus t myself, but its your choice. Its a nice revenge killer/offensive pivot, but i like the defensive landorus's checking and defensive pivot style. Defensive landorus t is also harder to wear down, as you lack a wish user.
 
"forgot about close combat" rofl
You could run a bulky landorus t to fix your charizard x problem. It can still use explosion too. Jolly Zard x pretty much destroys that team, and although its kind of silent thanks to post mence trauma meta and ORAS mega hype, it will undoubtedly rise back to prominence. I kinda prefer defensive landorus t myself, but its your choice. Its a nice revenge killer/offensive pivot, but i like the defensive landorus's checking and defensive pivot style. Defensive landorus t is also harder to wear down, as you lack a wish user.

Tbh, I did think about defensive land t but the utility scarf Lando provides my team with is so good. Outspeeding mega Metagross, Mega Bee's, opposing mega Gallade, and Greninja is kinda huge since otherwise, those three could muscle past (and outspeed bar Greninja) the team. I see where you are coming from though and highly appreciate your suggestions, friend. Thanks.

I just need to get swept by a few jolly zard x's before going for bulky Lando t :]
 
hey great team man. just a question tho have you thought of running wish on clefable instead of softboiled? it helps your team stay healthy and particularly greninja because of lo. and maybe fire blast for protect to get clef the wish since you don't really need fire blast that much as gallade and lando takes care of steel and mega venusaur
 
hey great team man. just a question tho have you thought of running wish on clefable instead of softboiled? it helps your team stay healthy and particularly greninja because of lo. and maybe fire blast for protect to get clef the wish since you don't really need fire blast that much as gallade and lando takes care of steel and mega venusaur

Thanks for the rate. To answer your question, I have thought of running Wish + Protect Fable and it is indeed a helpful set, but the reason I don't run it is because of Scizor/mega scizor. I do not want to give that thing a free set up chance because if it is speedy and if Rotom is damaged, Zor can potentially sweep. That's one reason why I run Fire Blast: to catch Scizor.

Also, Wish+Protect is rather exploitable and on the turn I protect or absolutely have to, the opponent can gain so much momentum just by that. Potentially game-changing momentum. This wouldn't be a problem for a much more bulky team, but for this one, it's difficult.

Tl;dr: Not saying it's terrible; it's definitely a viable option, though personally, I wouldn't run wish+protect for the team as it is currently.

Thanks once again for your suggestion. :]
 
Hey man, first off, i went on a acount after awhile and won soo many battles with these teams and Iat wifi but it wrecks house. But i think you might want to swap Fire blast for flamethrower on Cefable as I have missed so many fire blasts. Just a suggestion and sorry if misspelled
 
Hey man, first off, i went on a acount after awhile and won soo many battles with these teams and Iat wifi but it wrecks house. But i think you might want to swap Fire blast for flamethrower on Cefable as I have missed so many fire blasts. Just a suggestion and sorry if misspelled

Ah thanks, bro (or sis haha). Yeah flamethrower is probably the better, more consistent option tbh. I run Fire Blast just to catch and OHKO (I think) Scizor switch-ins if I hit.., but flamethrower has more PP, 100% accuracy and yeah. Don't be like me running these terrible moves and then when missing, getting salty about it, lol. Edited the set :]
 
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A way that you could handle ur Zard Y weakness would be to run Rock Slide>Zen Headbutt on Gallade to lure and KO it. I can't really think of any other way for this team to get around it reliably cause of its high special bulk aside from a full-on lure Greninja with Rock Slide, which won't work as Greninja doesn't actually lure Zard Y or birds in general due to its typing + Ice Beam.

I have to say good job on this team as it is very solid, and I will definitely be trying it out a little more due to how fun it is to use.
 
A way that you could handle ur Zard Y weakness would be to run Rock Slide>Zen Headbutt on Gallade to lure and KO it. I can't really think of any other way for this team to get around it reliably cause of its high special bulk aside from a full-on lure Greninja with Rock Slide, which won't work as Greninja doesn't actually lure Zard Y or birds in general due to its typing + Ice Beam.

I have to say good job on this team as it is very solid, and I will definitely be trying it out a little more due to how fun it is to use.
Why would you run rock slide when you can 2hko Zard Y with zen Headbutt or OHKO at +2? Sure, you need to get off a mega evolution but that isn't too hard to do.
 
Great team, I especially like how emp is a key player even though it's overlooked by a ton of players. I wanted to know what your thought process is when you see a mega scizor on the other team. Mentally which pokemon becomes your win condition and how do you play around the various different mscizor sets?
 
Great team, I especially like how emp is a key player even though it's overlooked by a ton of players. I wanted to know what your thought process is when you see a mega scizor on the other team. Mentally which pokemon becomes your win condition and how do you play around the various different mscizor sets?

Well when seeing M zor, my thought process is usually something like this: Landorus T, Rotom-Wash, and Grenade must be played carefully; these four take down Mega Scizor. ( I need 3-4 members to successfully neutralize this monster; maybe 2 if I'm luckE) Also, Clefable should never let Sciz switch in for free if it happens to pivot in on something. Even if low, I should use flamethrower as long as scizor lives. (They might be expecting a Softboiled and switch in)

Win cons: Rotom Wash, Land T and either Gallade or Greninja. (Sometimes, the whole grenade is needed; Ik, Scizor-mega is scary)


How I play around Mega Scizor:

Offensive SD three attacks:

-Have to keep Rotom untouched (can survive a +2 bug bite off offensive m zors) to burn and neutralize m-Sciz. After that, between Gallade, Landorus Therian, and Greninja, m zor is handled.

Worst-case scenario: Rotom is weakened or Will-O-Wisp misses; here a combination of Gren or Gall + Land T should beat Mzor. If the Grenade core has been weakened, I must intimidate around a bit and sack things to get off a dark pulse/CC then finish with a teammate. (Here I can easily lose my scarfer + one or more of my main attackers just to get rid of Zor :[ )

Bulky SD Roost:

-In the case of bulky M-zor, Rotom-W can 1v1 with burn + Hydro to wear down. Then I can either roar it out with Empoleon or pivot into Land T and U turn to Clef then Flamethrower (as long as m Zor is burned + intimidated, clef isn't too scared of Bullet Punch) I honestly rather face a bulky Zor than a damn SD All-Out attacking Mzor.

Non SD (Defog):

No worries here. Ez Rotom Wash. If Rotom is somehow dead, then a boosted SD off Gallade or [Gren + Gall] can take care of business. Clef can tank one BP and flamethrower to kill or put Sciz in range for another member to finish. Empoleon walls this Sciz variant as it usually runs dual-stab with roost.


  • As for banded Scizors, they aren't too bad thanks to the them not having Roost. It's just a matter of switching in the right mons on the right move. (Most of the team deals with band Zor)
  • Here is a replay showcasing Clefable not giving Scizor a free switch-in.
 
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I have been looking for team ideas to build around a Greninja, MGallade, and Rotom-W core, and this looks great! I do local battles with an in-game team, so getting a Defog Empoleon is pretty much impossible. Can you think of an alternative to him (it's in-game, so it doesn't have to be perfect). I don't think you can really get Defog in ORAS on anybody decent except Mandibuzz, so I'd probably need a Rapid Spinner if I wanted hazard control. Perhaps Excadrill? I could even run stealth rock on him if I wanted to.

Also, I can get a 3 IV Landorus-T in-game, but a 6 IV one would be farfetched. Do you think a 3 IV LandoT would still be worth it, or should I use a different Pokemon that I can viably get 5 IVs for? If I need a replacement, do you have suggestions?
 
I have been looking for team ideas to build around a Greninja, MGallade, and Rotom-W core, and this looks great! I do local battles with an in-game team, so getting a Defog Empoleon is pretty much impossible. Can you think of an alternative to him (it's in-game, so it doesn't have to be perfect). I don't think you can really get Defog in ORAS on anybody decent except Mandibuzz, so I'd probably need a Rapid Spinner if I wanted hazard control. Perhaps Excadrill? I could even run stealth rock on him if I wanted to.

Also, I can get a 3 IV Landorus-T in-game, but a 6 IV one would be farfetched. Do you think a 3 IV LandoT would still be worth it, or should I use a different Pokemon that I can viably get 5 IVs for? If I need a replacement, do you have suggestions?

If it is for in-game, Excadrill could work because it does the same thing as Empoleon (setting up rocks / removing hazards) I'd run Exca because it is a steel type and with the right investment, it could be a great pivot into draco's and such. I'd go for a specially defensive Excadrill just so it can better switch into the lati's and what not but that's up to you. User Branflakes325 has a really nice Excadrill set which can be found here.

As for Landorus-T, as long as it has 31 IVs in Attack and Speed, it is good to go. So a 3 IV Lando is , in my opinion, worth it since it is scarfed and not meant to take punishment like the defensive one. :]
 
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I'd suggest running 92 Atk / 166 spa / 252 spe timid nature on greninja as this ensures you ohko heatran after rocks. you dont miss out on any importants koes tho.
 
I'd suggest running 92 Atk / 166 spa / 252 spe timid nature on greninja as this ensures you ohko heatran after rocks. you dont miss out on any importants koes tho.

That sounds pretty cool though 40 EV's has a 68% chance to ohko tran after rocks. I like 216 SpA mainly to keep my chances at ohkoing M-Meta and Latias ~50% after rocks. Thanks for your suggestion though, I'll keep it in mind. :]

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 320-377 (83.1 - 97.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
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166 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 244-291 (81 - 96.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
216 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 260-307 (86.3 - 101.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

166 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 218-257 (72.4 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
216 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 221-265 (73.4 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The difference in damage output is really minimal, and you surely dislike to take a Lava Plume because it deals a lot, plus it can burn you, disallowing Greninja to OHKO Azumarill, Clefable, Tyranitar, stuff like that with Low Kick. But it's your choice, of course.
 
166 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 244-291 (81 - 96.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
216 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 260-307 (86.3 - 101.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

166 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 218-257 (72.4 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
216 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 221-265 (73.4 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The difference in damage output is really minimal, and you surely dislike to take a Lava Plume because it deals a lot, plus it can burn you, disallowing Greninja to OHKO Azumarill, Clefable, Tyranitar, stuff like that with Low Kick. But it's your choice, of course.

Just ran a bunch of calcs on different things and I think I like that spread. It doesn't take away too much from Gren and the guaranteed OHKO on tran is kinda great. For the things I can't initially OHKO or might have to rely on a roll, I believe the team has switch-ins to run a few LO rounds or general weakening.

I'll use that spread and see where it takes me. Thanks :]
 
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