Pokémon Greninja

[VCrowe]

so I've been running a pretty fun and successful anti-lead set, however I could use some advice on my two coverage moves.

Greninja (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Taunt
- Hydro Pump
- Toxic Spikes
- Ice Beam


Been running Hydro Beam, but does anyone think I could use something better over Ice beam perhaps? I was considering U-Turn and changing up the IVs and Nature to Hasty, or just dropping Ice Beam for Spikes, but honestly I think it would be a waste of time trying to setup 5 layers with such a frail guy. Toxic Spikes is easy due to Taunt forcing switches, and Protean making you Poison which is a very useful defensive typing right now.

Thoughts appreciated!

Max SpaAtk and Speed are completely uneccesary. This set allows Greninja to outspeed and KO various major threats, as well as dish out stronger U Turns or Shadow Sneaks. It should be noted that Sticky Web support from Galvantula, whom Greninja synergizes very well with, will ensure that you ninja froggy can outspeed pretty much all of OU, the exceptions being flying types and levitate users.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EV's: 96 Atk, 168 SpAtk, 244 Spe
- U Turn/Shadow Sneak
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- HP Fire

Damage Calculations

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 468-551 (128.57 - 151.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 608-717 (157.51 - 185.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rocks

96 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Espeon: 312-369 (93.41 - 110.47%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 302-359 (85.79 - 101.98%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 614-723 (173.44 - 204.23%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 702-827 (196.08 - 231%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 769-910 (218.46 - 258.52%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 351-416 (108.66 - 128.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 330-393 (101.22 - 120.55%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0- SpD Landorus-T: 811-957 (212.86 - 251.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Chandelure: 406-478 (145.51 - 171.32%) -- guaranteed OHKO

96 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 179-213 (65.8 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 281-330 (93.35 - 109.63%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO

96 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Celebi: 421-499 (123.46 - 146.33%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thanks, but that's really not the kind of lead I'm looking for. I want an anti-lead with Taunt and T. Spikes.

In that case then, Focus Sash could be an option over Life Orb, however I don't think it's worth hitting for less damage. Also, your set will do its job well enough, considering your opponent leads with something you can screw over. Taunt, T Spikes on the switch, and then dish out pain until somethig faints.

I'm new in the forum, but I use the main site of smogon a lot as a guide for create competitive teams for a long time.

This set is just too random for a physical sweeper Greninja? I really love the idea of changing his types in the middle of the battle.

Greninja @ Focus Sash/Flying Gem/Fighting Gem
Ability: Protean
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Shadow Sneak
- Power-Up Punch
- Acrobatics/U-Turn
- Waterfall

I can't decide between Acrobatics or U-Turn now, It's awesome turning it in pure Flying Type.

Also, Power-Up Punch for boosts in ATK + STAB Fighting damage.

Power-Up Punch isn't really useful on anything except Mega Kangahskan or maybe Mega Lucario. Acrobatics + Flying Gem can be good for things like the Battle Spot where matches don't last long, but in more drawn out situations it leaves your Froggy with nothing to do but act as death fodder.
Focus Sash can be viable for lead sets with Taunt and Spikes, but again mainly for shorter matches. So I recommend you check out my set in this same post.

 

[N7 Grimstar]

Max SpaAtk and Speed are completely uneccesary. This set allows Greninja to outspeed and KO various major threats, as well as dish out stronger U Turns or Shadow Sneaks. It should be noted that Sticky Web support from Galvantula, whom Greninja synergizes very well with, will ensure that you ninja froggy can outspeed pretty much all of OU, the exceptions being flying types and levitate users.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Nature: Hasty/Naive
EV's: 96 Atk, 168 SpAtk, 244 Spe
- U Turn/Shadow Sneak
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- HP Fire

Damage Calculations

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 468-551 (128.57 - 151.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 608-717 (157.51 - 185.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rocks

96 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Espeon: 312-369 (93.41 - 110.47%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 302-359 (85.79 - 101.98%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 614-723 (173.44 - 204.23%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 702-827 (196.08 - 231%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 769-910 (218.46 - 258.52%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 351-416 (108.66 - 128.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 330-393 (101.22 - 120.55%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0- SpD Landorus-T: 811-957 (212.86 - 251.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Chandelure: 406-478 (145.51 - 171.32%) -- guaranteed OHKO

96 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 179-213 (65.8 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 281-330 (93.35 - 109.63%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO

96 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Celebi: 421-499 (123.46 - 146.33%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thanks, but that's really not the kind of lead I'm looking for. I want an anti-lead with Taunt and T. Spikes.

 

[lastshinigami]

I'm new in the forum, but I use the main site of smogon a lot as a guide for create competitive teams for a long time.

This set is just too random for a physical sweeper Greninja? I really love the idea of changing his types in the middle of the battle.

Greninja @ Focus Sash/Flying Gem/Fighting Gem
Ability: Protean
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Shadow Sneak
- Power-Up Punch
- Acrobatics/U-Turn
- Waterfall

I can't decide between Acrobatics or U-Turn now, It's awesome turning it in pure Flying Type.

Also, Power-Up Punch for boosts in ATK + STAB Fighting damage.

 

[Magicfire]

so I've been running a pretty fun and successful anti-lead set, however I could use some advice on my two coverage moves.

Greninja (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Taunt
- Hydro Pump
- Toxic Spikes
- Ice Beam


Been running Hydro Beam, but does anyone think I could use something better over Ice beam perhaps? I was considering U-Turn and changing up the IVs and Nature to Hasty, or just dropping Ice Beam for Spikes, but honestly I think it would be a waste of time trying to setup 5 layers with such a frail guy. Toxic Spikes is easy due to Taunt forcing switches, and Protean making you Poison which is a very useful defensive typing right now.

Thoughts appreciated!

Protean shouldn't be used Defensively, and with the Defog buff and all, I don't think you should try to set too many layers. Ice Beam really is way too important for coverage, so I think you should keep it. Switch your current item for Focus Sash though, that should help a lot.

 

[N7 Grimstar]

Protean shouldn't be used Defensively, and with the Defog buff and all, I don't think you should try to set too many layers. Ice Beam really is way too important for coverage, so I think you should keep it. Switch your current item for Focus Sash though, that should help a lot.

I haven't had much trouble with surviving due to Protean at all. It almost guarantees a 2HKO requirement for Greninja, sometimes 3. I've used this opener a lot over the past 2 nights and it's been OHKO'd twice. Both by choice scarf, Jolteon Volt switch and Close Combat Heracross. Other than that I've either switched him out if I know he can't take the hit, or predict it and resist with protean, or he takes neutral. For a fragile guy he has surprisingly decent suitability, and from my experience the Life Orb has helped more times than a sash would.

I'll probably stick with Ice Beam, but my main problem is opposing water types.

 

[welsknight]

Protean shouldn't be used Defensively, and with the Defog buff and all, I don't think you should try to set too many layers. Ice Beam really is way too important for coverage, so I think you should keep it. Switch your current item for Focus Sash though, that should help a lot.

Protean can TOTALLY be used defensively. At default Water/Dark, Greninja has a weakness to fighting. Use a priority Shadow Sneak or a Shadow Ball when you believe that fighting attack is coming, and that weakness turns into an immunity. Same can be done with Acrobatics (Flying - Ground immunity), Taunt (Dark - Psychic Immunity), or Dig (Ground - Electric Immunity).

I run my Greninja as an anti-lead/support mon. Don't remember the exact set up, but it's something like:

Greninja @ Red Card
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EV's: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Shadow Sneak
- Water Shuriken
- U-Turn
- Taunt

Shadow sneak grants immunity to fighting attacks. Taunt grants immunity to Psychic attacks and cripples support leads. U-turn allows for a damage-dealing retreat after forcing the switch with Taunt. I'm probably going to switch Water Shuriken for Waterfall (or maybe Acrobatics, a ground immunity never hurts, although then he has no water move). I'm also know I'm going to get rid of the Red Card as soon as I figure out what item to put on him. =/

 

[Fluffy Blue Bunny]

Greninja @ Red Card
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EV's: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Shadow Sneak
- Water Shuriken
- U-Turn
- Taunt

Shadow sneak grants immunity to fighting attacks. Taunt grants immunity to Psychic attacks and cripples support leads. U-turn allows for a damage-dealing retreat after forcing the switch with Taunt. I'm probably going to switch Water Shuriken for Waterfall (or maybe Acrobatics, a ground immunity never hurts, although then he has no water move). I'm also know I'm going to get rid of the Red Card as soon as I figure out what item to put on him. =/

I'm sorry, but this set IS bad. Like really bad. Firstly, you're running a timid nature on a set with only physical attacks. Red Card accomplishes nothing with this set since you'll likely die in one hit. The only lead-like quality this set has is taunt. And taunt is really only useful for Smeargle. Every move here is low power and you're not even using the priority moves to revenge kill. If you're using Greninja defensively without even investing in HP, then I don't even know what to say.

Also, anything that is fast, decently powerful and hits any of the above typings neutrally will still kill Greninja.

 

[LittleTLK]

Maybe it's been said before, but a good counter is actually gale wings talonflame.
Talon Flame makes a great choice band revenge killer with flying type priority.

Brave Bird off this OHKOs greninja as long as it hits neutral or SE damage, and it shouldn't have a problem with being resisted since none of the attacks on the main greninja sets I'm seeing here carry rock or steel moves.

 

[N7 Grimstar]

I'm sorry, but this set IS bad. Like really bad. Firstly, you're running a timid nature on a set with only physical attacks. Red Card accomplishes nothing with this set since you'll likely die in one hit. The only lead-like quality this set has is taunt. And taunt is really only useful for Smeargle. Every move here is low power and you're not even using the priority moves to revenge kill. If you're using Greninja defensively without even investing in HP, then I don't even know what to say.

Also, anything that is fast, decently powerful and hits any of the above typings neutrally will still kill Greninja.

Aside from running timid (which I'm assuming is a mistake when he made the post) I think his set is actually heading in an interesting direction.

Red Card Acrobatics could be an interesting option to explore, run some good defensive moves like toxic spikes for Protean and you can take a hit if you're not bad art prediction.

 

[welsknight]

Aside from running timid (which I'm assuming is a mistake when he made the post) I think his set is actually heading in an interesting direction.

Sorry, it was supposed to say Jolly.

I played around with this:

Greninja @ Red Card
Ability: Protean
Nature: Jolly
EV's: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Shadow Sneak
- Acrobatics
- U-Turn
- Taunt

It actually tested surprisingly well. Greninja would get hit with something after Taunt, Red card forces the swap and doubles Acrobatics power. Not the best set for Greninja, true, but definitely contains an element of surprise.

However my team is missing a good SpA sweeper, so I ended up switching things around and going with an SpA set instead.

 

[T-Bolt]

Aside from running timid (which I'm assuming is a mistake when he made the post) I think his set is actually heading in an interesting direction.

Red Card Acrobatics could be an interesting option to explore, run some good defensive moves like toxic spikes for Protean and you can take a hit if you're not bad art prediction.

Did you even see Greninja's defenses? Of course it isn't going to take even resisted hits very well. Why would you want to phaze with Greninja anyway? Red card acrobatics is even worse, because you actually need to take a hit to do damage with Acrobatics. Also, running low BP moves like shadow sneak just to change your typing isn't going to help you at all, especially if you mispredict.

The only defensive use of Protean is on a spikes set, where you can use protean to change your typing to ground, removing your electric weakness, and potentially allowing you to get another layer up if you face something like Rotom-W.

 

[N7 Grimstar]

Did you even see Greninja's defenses? Of course it isn't going to take even resisted hits very well. Why would you want to phaze with Greninja anyway? Red card acrobatics is even worse, because you actually need to take a hit to do damage with Acrobatics. Also, running low BP moves like shadow sneak just to change your typing isn't going to help you at all, especially if you mispredict.

The only defensive use of Protean is on a spikes set, where you can use protean to change your typing to ground, removing your electric weakness, and potentially allowing you to get another layer up if you face something like Rotom-W.

First of all I never run shadow sneak, and never said I did.

As for Greninja's defenses, honestly any hazard setter/taunter that can take a 2HKO from just about anything is about as good as you need. Obviously don't stay in on Garchomp or Hydreigon unless you KNOW you outspeed with U-Turn (still too risky to try if you ask me).

As for Red Card Acrobatics, it's actually pretty decent, the phazing can screw with people at times, sometimes it doesn't really make a difference, it's definitely a situational item, but I kind of like the surprise factor like welsknight mentioned. Overall the set is pretty gimmicky, admittedly. But for me, it fits right into my team, as I have no phazers, and an extremely quick Taunt user has won me several battles.

People are vastly underestimating how good of a defensive typing Poison is for Greninja.

 

[Magicfire]

First of all, I don't get why people are using Life Orb when it's a lead set, you only have two attacks, and you have Protean STAB. And also, I get how Greninja can possibly take some hits, but DO NOT use him defensively. Those defenses pretty much prove it. I also really don't like the idea of Red Card. Red Card is nice on, let's say, something with Sturdy that actually can take any hit. Greninja cannot. My main point is, don't use Protean defensively at all. As for the Hidden Power, the most viable one is Fire. Other ones may be effective, but a bit gimmicky IMO.

 

[RobbieNewton]

I wish to submit one I have tried through trial and error

http://pastebin.com/xrPKWuAQ

Greninja @ King's Rock
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Bounce
- Night Slash
- U-turn

Now, I know that Greninja's two main facets are Speed, and Sp. Atk. I get that, but I wanted to defy convention and to try something else. It is quite bulky when it wants to be if taking a physical attack. Protean helps that further. Whilst it does not have Serene Grace, the 30% paralyse chance of Bounce is pretty appealing. Couple that with Water Shuriken being assisted by King's Rock (each hit [2-5] has a chance of flinching) and you've got a pretty good Greninja. I've really been enjoying using this one and it can last quite a while before being defeated. Again I note that whilst Sp. Atk is the main attacking one of Greninja, its Attack stat is still pretty good, and if someone sends out a special wall to deal with Greninja, they are quite surprised. However

Counters

Skarmory
Forretress
Ferrothorn

Ah, the age old steel walls. The removal of Steel's resistance to Dark helps somewhat, especially if the flinch happens but generally these do wall. Currently working out how to get around that one.

In terms of furthering this, gonna see how it gets on with 252 Sp. Def and whatnot, just to test

 

[Magicfire]

I wish to submit one I have tried through trial and error

I really don't think it's a good idea at all to invest in any Defense instead of Speed, or Defense at all. Bounce also takes a turn to set up, and Greninja has Acrobatics and can also use Flying Gem to deal greater damage.

 

[Torkoals]

If you have a Physical move, then the last 4 EVs should go to Attack and you shouldn't be using the Timid Nature. Also, it's been said that Greninja only needs 244 Spe EVs and 168 SpA EVs to outspeed and OHKO a majority of targets. The rest can go into Atk if you're running a physical move.

Water Shuriken is a pretty bad move without max Attack investment, considering Greninja's already sub-par attack. It fails to OHKO/2HKO anyone you would use it on, such as Blaziken and Talonflame (4 Atk (custom) (Water Shuriken hits 3 times) vs. 192 HP / 0 Def (custom): 126-150 (36.52 - 43.47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO). Dark Pulse is also a sub-par option as it only really helps you take out spinblockers, as Hydropump will almost definitely do just as much damage to any other ghosts (Like Gengar: 168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 255-302 (97.7 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO). U-Turn is better used for taking out Psychics like Celebi, Alakazam, Espeon, etc. as it KO's and gives your team momentum. Lastly, HP Fire is amazing as it stops you from being walled by the likes of Scizor, Ferrothorn, etc. and Grass Knot is also great in the same regard for bulky waters.

Overall the best set for Greninja is probably:

Greninja@Life Orb
Protean
Naive/Hasty, 96 Atk / 168 SpA / 244 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- U-Turn
- Ice Beam
- HP Fire / Grass Knot

This is VCrowe's set, here are some calcs from them:

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Scizor: 442-530 (128.48 - 154.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 257-304 (70.6 - 83.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

100 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 192 HP / 64 Def Reuniclus: 244-291 (59.65 - 71.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

100 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mew: 211-250 (61.69 - 73.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 468-551 (128.57 - 151.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 608-717 (157.51 - 185.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rocks

96 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Espeon: 312-369 (93.41 - 110.47%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 302-359 (85.79 - 101.98%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 614-723 (173.44 - 204.23%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 702-827 (196.08 - 231%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 769-910 (218.46 - 258.52%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 351-416 (108.66 - 128.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 330-393 (101.22 - 120.55%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0- SpD Landorus-T: 811-957 (212.86 - 251.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Chandelure: 406-478 (145.51 - 171.32%) -- guaranteed OHKO

96 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 179-213 (65.8 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

168 SpA Life Orb (custom) Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 281-330 (93.35 - 109.63%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO

96 Atk Life Orb (custom) U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Celebi: 421-499 (123.46 - 146.33%) -- guaranteed OHKO

**Some of these calcs have 100 Atk instead of 96 but that should barely hurt the KO's at all.**

I've sinced fixed the Evs, i had changed them but i didn't for this post. Water shuriken was really only for the priority, so i understand how bad it might be just as an attack. When i was using greninjja, he ept getting threatened by mach punch users, so that was my motivation in having something to at east hurt them with, if need be. Do these calcs take into account Hp's power drop? (Basically: is honko's updated?)

 

[Bravadorado]

Do these calcs take into account Hp's power drop? (Basically: is honko's updated?)

Yes of course, but they also take into account that he gets STAB on everything. That essentially makes HP 50% stronger than it is on most every other mon.

 

[TROP]

Lol those sets from last page...
I get STAB everything is cool, but at least try sets that are not gimmicky as fuck. Physical Greninja is actually ok if flying gem is available, but until flying gem is available, full special,offensive spiker, and special with U-turn are the only truly viable sets. Water Shuriken is cool to revenge things like Blaziken behind a sub and most Talonflame, but needing 5 hits to guarantee a kill on them is really bad.

 

[Magicfire]

The not-so-good thing with Timid Greninja is that running any Physical moves isn't that great of an idea. The good thing is you can have another moveslot for a coverage move of some sort instead of U-Turn/Water Shuriken/Shadow Sneak.

Lol those sets from last page...

They were really hilarious lol.

 

[crazy_man]

The thing with Timid Greninja is that running any Physical moves isn't that great of an idea. The good thing is you can have another moveslot for a coverage move of some sort.

They were really hilarious lol.

Yeah it comes down to would you rather have momentum vs. better coverage. Because of that momentum U-Turn Greninja works better early game, its also a safer counter lead. (Mispredict? just U-Turn out)

 

[Magicfire]

Yeah it comes down to would you rather have momentum vs. better coverage. Because of that momentum U-Turn Greninja works better early game, its also a safer counter lead. (Mispredict? just U-Turn out)

Yeah I was just saying if you have Timid, then a coverage move is better. Personally, I like the coverage even with a Hasty Nature.

 

[Pathos Prime]

Possibly a dumb question, but would Mat Block protect Greninja from damage inflicted by allies in multibattles? Say, for example, Greninja used Mat Block and then his partner used Earthquake or Explosion.

 

[Bravadorado]

Hey, just joined up to ask this question. Got a wonder trade Froakie that is "Female/Protean/Timid" and 31 IV on everything except speed which is 28 IV. Should I go to work trying to breed a a 31 IV everything but, attack or can I just take this freebie? Is 3(possible 4) speed really gonna screw me on anything common?

You'll need to invest a few more speed EVs in (Compared to the "standard" 244 EV spread), and you'll probably miss out on HP Fire which is a real drag.

 

[VCrowe]

Not true. At level 50, 28 speed IV ties with base 120 speed tier, which is terrible. Greninja needs max speed, since you can bet the farm that the vast majority of opposing Greninja are running a 31 Speed IV with 252 EVs.

No, the majority of Greninja will actually be running 30 speed IV's for the sake of HP Fire, which is crucial for coverage.

Also, Greninja Vs Greninja should be avoided at all costs for obvious reasons.

 

[Momochuu]

Most Greninja don't have HP Fire because its too hard to breed, but you can OHKO them after they U-Turn with HP Fire and they can't OHKO you.