Gen 2 GSC NU 2020 Discussion

Earthworm

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:gs/Octillery: :gs/Xatu: GSC NU 2020 :gs/Flareon: :gs/Magmar:

Following the most recent tiering update to GSC NU and in anticipation of an upcoming RoA rotational ladder featuring GSC NU, now seems like a good time to post my analysis on the current metagame and what I think is good. I admittedly haven't been able to play many games yet but I've been staring at a list of the Pokemon for a while and this is what I've been able to come up with.

:gs/Octillery: :gs/Xatu: :gs/Flareon:
Best Pokemon
These three seem like the main offensive powerhouses in the tier. All three are special attackers that were held back by Raichu, Poliwrath, and Golduck in the previous iteration of the tier.

Octillery, which was a top Pokemon in the Mr. Mime Pikachu meta, is finally back to wreak havoc with its base 105 SpA. Almost nothing in the tier can wall three attack Octillery, but unlike Golduck and Poliwrath, it's pretty slow and not that bulky. It has to choose which coverage to drop if it is considering going RestTalk. HP Electric does substantially less than Ice Beam to Xatu and obviously very little to Grass-types.

Xatu's Psychic is scarcely resisted and comes off a respectable base 95 SpA. This coupled with its high Speed and Spikes immunity means that Xatu can safely be considered a powerhouse of the tier. However, unlike Octillery, it struggles to cover all of its checks with its available coverage moves. Xatu can use Hidden Power Dark or Electric for opposing Xatu and Mantine (and to a lesser extent, Exeggcute and Abra) but fails to hit Pokemon like Ninetales and Magnemite hard. Nonetheless, these Pokemon are threatened by critical hits and SpD falls from Xatu, and Xatu has other tricks up its sleeve like Night Shade and Thief that can offer means of bypassing some of its trickier checks. Xatu is also arguably one of the best Pokemon at taking advantage of chip damage from Spikes thanks to its immediate solid damage output and high Speed.

Flareon's high stats make it a significant standalone threat, with its STAB Fire Blast being backed up by HP Grass for Rock-types and Zap Cannon being a stronger option for Water-types. Its huge Attack stat can also be taken advantage of with Double-Edge or Hidden Power Ground to deal sizable chunks of damage to opposing Fire-types. However, the main draw to Flareon is its access to Growth, which is made even more dangerous when used with Baton Pass. Xatu, Magmar, and Seadra were already looking scary with no boosts, but Flareon can take them to another level. Not only this, but Pokemon like Ninetales and opposing Flareon with Roar can also be foiled by slower Flareon variants with Roar. Flareon has plenty of options to make itself incredibly dangerous and should not be underestimated, even though it can struggle to find safe opportunities to set up due to its typing and susceptibility to status.

:gs/Wigglytuff: :gs/Fearow: :gs/Pidgeot: :gs/Lickitung: :gs/Dunsparce: :gs/Stantler: :gs/Noctowl: :gs/Raticate: :gs/Persian:
Normal-types
Without Raichu around to deal massive damage with Thunder, one might think Normal-types would demolish the metagame with high base power STAB attacks and setup/coverage moves, but there are still annoying hurdles for them to get over before they can hope to sweep. Shuckle, Graveler, and Sudowoodo are relatively unchanged. Weezing is still around, as is Gastly. Magnemite is now also seeing significantly more play, and Corsola's viability has substantially increased. It can be hard to consistently find a way to break the opponent's defenses against Normal-types, although those with Earthquake are in a better position than those that don't have it.

:gs/Pineco: :gs/Delibird:
Spikers
Pineco arguably remains the more viable spiker, however Delibird is more viable than it was when Raichu was the most popular Pokemon.

:gs/Weezing:
Weezing
Weezing is still a very good Pokemon and can really cause havoc if it has an attack to bypass the opposing team's Normal-type resist.

:gs/Graveler: :gs/Sudowoodo: :gs/Shuckle: :gs/Corsola: :gs/Magcargo:
Rock-types
Graveler is notable for Rapid Spin, STAB EQ, and Explosion. Sudowoodo has much better SpD and no 4x weaknesses, so it can't get destroyed by random Hidden Powers. Shuckle is a super tank but is incredibly passive and arguably struggles in a tier with fearfully powerful Octillery. Corsola's niche as a non-Water weak Recovering Rock-type is now more viable due to Raichu being gone, but Grass-type coverage is a concern. Magcargo is a solid check to most Fire-types if they lack Cross Chop, Hidden Power Ground, and Hidden Power Water. It can permanently wall Curse RestTalk Normal-types with Acid Armor.

:gs/Octillery: :gs/Dewgong: :gs/Mantine: :gs/Azumarill:
Bulky Water-types
While they can't take on powerful Normal-types reliably, bulky Water-types are crucial for taking on Fire-types, Rock-types, and Ground-types. Octillery has a solid balance of power and bulk, whereas Dewgong has STAB Ice Beam for Xatu and more bulk but less power. Mantine is fantastic in terms of SpD but has an unfortunate 4x weakness to Electric. Nevertheless, it is potentially valuable for its consistency against non-Electric move Xatu and Flareon. Azumarill is the most bulky of the four, rivalling the bulk of Poliwrath. However, it has a paltry base 50 SpA, so it is quite passive outside of Whirlpool + Perish Song and Belly Drum.

:gs/Flareon: :gs/Magmar: :gs/Ninetales: :gs/Rapidash:
Fire-types
Fire-types are more potent than ever, although they are somewhat lacking in ways to get past bulky Water-types due to lacking Solar Beam. Flareon has Zap Cannon and Magmar has Cross Chop for Dewgong as well as Thunder Punch for Mantine. Rapidash relies on Double-Edge or Hidden Power alongside Hypnosis. Ninetales provides a great option for checking opposing Fire-types and Xatu thanks to its high SpD. Magmar is particularly potent with Sunny Day boosting its power to extremes. It nevertheless struggles against some of its checks, like Octillery and Ninetales.

:gs/Kingler: :gs/Primeape: :gs/Dugtrio: :gs/Hitmonlee: :gs/Poliwhirl: :gs/Machoke: :gs/Cubone:
Other Physical Attackers
Physical attackers aside from exceptions like Lickitung are for the most part overshadowed by special attackers, which boast better defensive attributes and coverage. However, given a setup opportunity, physical attackers can be highly effective at dismantling a team. Kingler is highly threatening given an opportunity to set up Swords Dance. It is a great fit for a paralysis-based team. Primeape is a fearsome attacker that Speed ties Xatu and has Rock Slide. Dugtrio is excellent with Spikes, although can struggle to find as many opportunities in the new metagame. Hitmonlee has great Attack and SpD, but lacks coverage options. However, it can also function as a spinner. Poliwhirl is uniquely threatening with its high Speed and access to the combination of Lovely Kiss and Belly Drum. Machoke has access to Cross Chop, Earthquake, and Rock Slide. Cubone has the highest Attack in the tier with Thick Club alongside STAB Earthquake. However, both Machoke and Cubone are very slow.

:gs/Magnemite: :gs/Elekid: :gs/Chinchou: :gs/Voltorb:
Electric-types
Electric is still a useful and powerful type, despite only NFEs being around to use. Magnemite has extremely useful typing and a highly respectable base SpA of 95. In the absence of Raichu, it is a clear mainstay in the tier, being an excellent check to Xatu and Normal-types without Ground type coverage. Elekid is fast and has useful coverage, making it surprisingly difficult to counter. Chinchou has a valuable Water-resist and may be the only Pokemon in the tier capable of taking on three attack Octillery safely. Voltorb is primarily useful for its access to dual screens and Explosion.

:gs/Seadra: :gs/Abra:
Other Special Attackers
Seadra has Agility so it can outspeed the entire tier and threaten it with its great coverage. This is even scarier with potential Growth boosts from Flareon. Abra doesn't have the coverage issues Xatu has and has incredibly high SpA but is really pathetic defensively.

:gs/Venomoth: :gs/Gastly: :gs/Sneasel: :gs/Arbok: :gs/Murkrow: :gs/Ariados: :gs/Ledian: :gs/Parasect: :gs/Houndour: :gs/Exeggcute: :gs/Tangela: :gs/Sunflora: :gs/Dragonair: :gs/Porygon: :gs/Beedrill: :gs/Farfetch :gs/Rhyhorn: :gs/Snubbull:
Other Pokemon that might be viable
These are some Baton Passers, Grass-types, Dark-types, and Pokemon with unique niches that might make them viable. I might have missed some Pokemon.

I hope this is helpful to anyone that is thinking about trying out the new tier in 2020. I left this slightly vague and I think there are many possible strategies to experiment with here so I am excited to see other people's takes on the tier. Please post about your experiences with the tier in this thread. What sets and combinations are working for you? Is the tier more enjoyable after the bans?

See you on the ladder!
 
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EraiMHFU

formerly Erai14
Pretty eager to try out GSC NU, but kind of sad seeing the dark types/pursuit users being so pathetic and Xatu being so good. This is purely theorymon, but I think this might be the best dedicated pursuit user for teams specifically looking to remove Xatu, enabling boosting sweepers like meditate Primeape/Hitmonlee or curse Weezing that are weak to Psychic. (And in theory Gastly and Abra too but I don't think those have the same durability as Xatu)

:gs/Sneasel:
Sneasel @ No Item / Leftovers
- Blizzard / Shadow Ball
- Pursuit
- Return
- Thief / Iron Tail / Dynamic Punch / Hidden Power Ground

So, Sneasel doesn't exactly accomplish much by itself, its attacking stats range from unremarkable (Atk) to awful (SpA). But it is the fastest pursuit user in NU and it can either 2HKO Xatu with Blizzard or 3HKO it with Shadow Ball while Xatu only has a 14% chance to 3HKO it in return with Drill Peck. Blizzard hits Xatu the hardest but 70% accuracy is painful, so I believe Shadow is a decent, 100% accurate physical alternative that also hits other potential pursuit targets for super effective damage. The first 2 moves are specifically meant for Sneasel to accomplish to what it is meant to do. The last 2 can be tailored to suit its teams needs. Return is Sneasel's strongest physical attack and Thief can permanently cripple something by stealing its Leftovers. Iron Tail and Dynamic Punch hit opposing Sneasel hard and can punish rock-type switch-ins. HP Ground hits Magnemite and Magcargo hard but it is weaker versus the other normal resists. It also learns Reflect if it wants to go that route and it might be decent with its speed but I'm personally not that big into screens.

I believe Elekid might be a better Pursuit user overall though because it does more than just use Pursuit but it can't switch into Psychic at all and it speed ties Xatu.

F for Murkrow :(


Edit: Ignore the above, EW corrected me.
 
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Earthworm

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Pretty eager to try out GSC NU, but kind of sad seeing the dark types/pursuit users being so pathetic and Xatu being so good. This is purely theorymon, but I think this might be the best dedicated pursuit user for teams specifically looking to remove Xatu, enabling boosting sweepers like meditate Primeape/Hitmonlee or curse Weezing that are weak to Psychic. (And in theory Gastly and Abra too but I don't think those have the same durability as Xatu)

:gs/Sneasel:
Sneasel @ No Item / Leftovers
- Blizzard / Shadow Ball
- Pursuit
- Return
- Thief / Iron Tail / Dynamic Punch / Hidden Power Ground

So, Sneasel doesn't exactly accomplish much by itself, its attacking stats range from unremarkable (Atk) to awful (SpA). But it is the fastest pursuit user in NU and it can either 2HKO Xatu with Blizzard or 3HKO it with Shadow Ball while Xatu only has a 14% chance to 3HKO it in return with Drill Peck. Blizzard hits Xatu the hardest but 70% accuracy is painful, so I believe Shadow is a decent, 100% accurate physical alternative that also hits other potential pursuit targets for super effective damage. The first 2 moves are specifically meant for Sneasel to accomplish to what it is meant to do. The last 2 can be tailored to suit its teams needs. Return is Sneasel's strongest physical attack and Thief can permanently cripple something by stealing its Leftovers. Iron Tail and Dynamic Punch hit opposing Sneasel hard and can punish rock-type switch-ins. HP Ground hits Magnemite and Magcargo hard but it is weaker versus the other normal resists. It also learns Reflect if it wants to go that route and it might be decent with its speed but I'm personally not that big into screens.

I believe Elekid might be a better Pursuit user overall though because it does more than just use Pursuit but it can't switch into Psychic at all and it speed ties Xatu.

F for Murkrow :(
You aren't the first to think Sneasel learns Pursuit in GSC, but unfortunately it doesn't. It does get Moonlight and Screech or Toxic though, so it is probably usable. It certainly has defensive utility against Xatu.

Houndour and Murkrow both get Pursuit, as does Elekid as you mentioned (though it is illegal with Cross Chop). It will be interesting to see if a Pursuit strategy can be pulled off--Body Slam Hitmonlee might be able to paralyse Xatu for Houndour perhaps?
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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I've run Pursuit on Dugtrio before in the old meta, though this really was more to remove Gastly on a team with a Curse Rest Normal.
It does do at least a little chip to Xatu though if it needs to flee Rock Slide, but Pursuit only does 30% or so on the switch out. So you need Xatu in a position where it already needs to Rest pretty much immediately, due to fears of Rock Slide flinches/crits. The chip is nice though regardless since it gives you a chance at beating Xatu on its next attempted switch in if you predict. Unfortunately though you have to actually run HP Rock, not Rock Slide when using Pursuit, due to illegalities, which makes it that much harder for Dug to break Xatu (relying much more on a bluff of Rock Slide on the first matchup, before you reveal Pursuit). So it's much more of a tech for Gastly than Xatu.

I think it's difficult to justify a team reliant on paralyzing Xatu so it can be Pursuit trapped. It's not the likely response to almost any mon with Thunder Wave. While Xatu could be the response to Stun Spore grasses, the opponent's switch in to these might also be a fire. So you do end up somewhat relying on less reliable paralyzers like Body Slam Hitmonlee as EW said. The fact that no good Pursuiter that actually has bulk, power behind Pursuit, or outruns Xatu is a major bummer. Dugtrio might be the best there is for the job since at least it's faster. Elekid is probably better than the Darks at the end of the day since it already can be justified for a teamslot, and it speed ties with Xatu while threatening serious damage with its STAB. Unfortunately though Psychic tears through it, but so does Drill Peck through the Darks to some extent too. Drill Peck 3HKOs Murkrow, and Xatu is faster.
 
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Hey I was just wondering which of the grass types is the most viable? I've been playing around with Tangela for awhile and it's been mediocre. Maybe I'm just using a bad moveset (sleep, synthesis, giga and hp fire), but it's kinda disapointing defensively aswell. I've tried out Sunflora and it's been much better as a sponge to most special attacks but without sleep it can't really threaten most of it's switchins unless it's using the correct HP.

Another question I have is which of the birds is the most viable? Pidgeot is decently tanky but isn't super strong and has to rely on HP flying so it has no HP coverage, Fearow is the strongest but has mediocre defences, Murkrow is like Fearow but has a wider movepool, better spatk and pursuit in exchange for worse defences, speed and attack and Noctowl has hypnosis, better support moves and better defences? (I know fearow gets pursuit but I've never seen one use it).
 

Earthworm

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Hey I was just wondering which of the grass types is the most viable? I've been playing around with Tangela for awhile and it's been mediocre. Maybe I'm just using a bad moveset (sleep, synthesis, giga and hp fire), but it's kinda disapointing defensively aswell. I've tried out Sunflora and it's been much better as a sponge to most special attacks but without sleep it can't really threaten most of it's switchins unless it's using the correct HP.

Another question I have is which of the birds is the most viable? Pidgeot is decently tanky but isn't super strong and has to rely on HP flying so it has no HP coverage, Fearow is the strongest but has mediocre defences, Murkrow is like Fearow but has a wider movepool, better spatk and pursuit in exchange for worse defences, speed and attack and Noctowl has hypnosis, better support moves and better defences? (I know fearow gets pursuit but I've never seen one use it).
Grass-types are fairly mediocre in general. The best is probably Exeggcute since it has Explosion and STAB Psychic to deter Weezing. Tangela would be my next choice. Sunflora simply takes too much from physical attacks and can't threaten things.

All of the birds are very much viable. Fearow and Pidgeot both make decent RestTalkers. Fearow can go HP Ground or Drill Peck with its Normal STAB. Alternatively, it's fast and strong enough that a four attack set could work with HP Ground or Grass and Hyper Beam or Substitute over Rest and Sleep Talk. Fearow no longer needs to worry about being OHKOed off a Raichu Speed tie, so it ought to have improved significantly.

I prefer DE RestTalk and then either Reflect or Toxic for RestTalk Pidgeot, but a phazer set with DE Toxic Whirlwind and either Reflect or Protect can also work.

Noctowl can either be a Curse phazer or it can use something like Toxic Night Shade (edit: this is illegal with Whirlwind) Whirlwind and Rest/Protect. Its huge special bulk makes it great against Xatu and non-Ice Beam Octillery.

Murkrow is pretty decent with Drill Peck Pursuit HP Dark filler. I think HP Dark is the only option for 2HKOing Xatu, so it seems like the logical choice, despite missing out on Magnemite and SE Rock- and Poison-type coverage. The filler move can be Toxic, Haze, or Thief. If running HP Ground, Shadow Ball (or.. Faint Attack?) can be used to damage Xatu fairly heavily. It might get something else good but I'd have to check.

I'd say Fearow is probably most viable, but I think they all function adequately, and much moreso than when Raichu was around.

The ladder has been pretty active over the past few days. I encourage everyone reading this to give it a try!
 
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Grass-types are fairly mediocre in general. The best is probably Exeggcute since it has Explosion and STAB Psychic to deter Weezing. Tangela would be my next choice. Sunflora simply takes too much from physical attacks and can't threaten things.

All of the birds are very much viable. Fearow and Pidgeot both make decent RestTalkers. Fearow can go HP Ground or Drill Peck with its Normal STAB. Alternatively, it's fast and strong enough that a four attack set could work with HP Ground or Grass and Hyper Beam or Substitute over Rest and Sleep Talk. Fearow no longer needs to worry about being OHKOed off a Raichu Speed tie, so it ought to have improved significantly.

I prefer DE RestTalk and then either Reflect or Toxic for RestTalk Pidgeot, but a phazer set with DE Toxic Whirlwind and either Reflect or Protect can also work.

Noctowl can either be a Curse phazer or it can use something like Toxic Night Shade Whirlwind and Rest/Protect. Its huge special bulk makes it great against Xatu and non-Ice Beam Octillery.

Murkrow is pretty decent with Drill Peck Pursuit HP Dark filler. I think HP Dark is the only option for 2HKOing Xatu, so it seems like the logical choice, despite missing out on Magnemite and SE Rock- and Poison-type coverage. The filler move can be Toxic, Haze, or Thief. If running HP Ground, Shadow Ball (or.. Faint Attack?) can be used to damage Xatu fairly heavily. It might get something else good but I'd have to check.

I'd say Fearow is probably most viable, but I think they all function adequately, and much moreso than when Raichu was around.

The ladder has been pretty active over the past few days. I encourage everyone reading this to give it a try!
Thanks for the help! Tried out Exeggcute and was kinda disapointed, speaks less about Exeggcute and more about just how meh the grass types are. I was kinda sad about Explosion being illegal with Moonlight and Synthesis but whatever, healing isn't really super necessary on an offensive team.

Gonna try out rest talk Fearow and Pidgeot, they both seem like pretty good mons. Slight problem with Noctowl, Night Shade and Whirlwind are illegal together, I'll probably just use return or something over it. Otherwise I've seen curse noctowl and it was pretty good, being walled by Gastly sucks but with spikes support it seems pretty good.

I've tried out rest talk murkrow and it was very unspectacular so this helps alot. Thanks for the information, I'll definately be keeping my eye on this metagame.
 
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Earthworm

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Update based on laddering for about two weeks and playing two games for Origin Mixed League:
:gs/Flareon: Flareon is not as good as I anticipated. Its speed hurts it and passing +1 SpA in exchange for more than half Flareon's health is not gamebreaking.
:gs/Octillery: Octillery isn't quite as amazing as I thought either, but it's still a solid Pokemon. I'd been seeing a lot of RestTalk but it now appears to be getting replaced by Dewgong a lot.
:gs/Xatu: Xatu remains probably the best Pokemon in the tier, but by much less of a margin than Lax in OU or Nidoqueen in UU. It's not even close to mandatory, and many successful ladder teams drop it.

:gs/Primeape: This thing is a monster. It's probably a candidate for top 3 Pokemon. Substitute Meditate CC RS seems to be the scariest set. Weezing is a good check but is not insurmountable or even hard to weaken.
:gs/Magmar: Another really tough to wall Pokemon. It's a huge threat under Sunny Day and has numerous other possible sets and useful Hidden Powers.
:gs/Kingler: Yet another Pokemon that's difficult to wall, but it's also simultaneously a general physical check for things like non-Curse Normal-types, Rock-types, and Ground-types, as well as checking Water- and Fire-types that lack SE coverage for it. Quite versatile. The RestTalk Crabhammer DE set seems to have been most consistently effective so far. Xatu checks it decently though.
:gs/dewgong: Encore makes this a fantastic general catch-all, although it is terrified of Cross Chop from both Magmar and Primeape. Pretty decent Xatu check, though to be consistent it would need Restalk.
:gs/Stantler: Powerful and consistent threat with a much more interesting movepool than most Normal-types. Very solid wallbreaker.
:gs/Rapidash: Lastly, Rapidash has a great speed tier and makes for a strong breaker with 3-attack Hypnosis or Sunny Day.

The activity on the ladder had been somewhat solid in the first week or so but is beginning to fall off. I hope more players decide to try the refreshed tier out, as in my opinion it is a substantial improvement on the previous metagame. There will be an open tournament coming up in about a week as well.
 
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From my experience from this tier Dewgong is absolutely fantastic and on every one of my teams.Its simple set is Surf,Ice Beam,Rest Sleep Talk.This walls a good amount of Pokemon and can hit suprisingly hard.Xatu is everywhere and it doesnt want to come in becaause of Ice Beam and that its Psychic only does 25 to 30percent.In addition it deals well with other common Pokemon like Fearow,Flareon,Dugtrio,Graveler and Shuckle

0AE0611D-E2BD-4401-9FF1-BEC5F171FC84.jpeg


Rapidash is imo the best non spiker lead.It utterly terrifies the only two spikers in Delibired and Pineco,Has among the highest speed stats in the tier and has Hypnosis to shut something down.While Graveler walls it mostly it can slap HP Grass,though it only has a 30.8 chance to OHKO from full.Honestly theres not much to say its just an amazing lead that has started games off on a bang
62D813A5-F58C-42C4-9099-A18583C58478.jpeg


Weezing is a very powerful wallbreaker thans to its awesome coverage.Sludge Bomb terrifies any grass type like exeggcute and Tangela.It also has a powerful Thunder for Mantine,Dewgong and Octillery.Fire Blast is actually in my opinion what you shouldnt run on it,It only really helps against fairly niche and rare picks like Venomoth and Ariados.Sure you hit stuff that resists your other moves like Dugtrio(which why u staying in on this) but i dont like Fblast on Weezing.I think HP Grass is better.HP Grass Weezing actually lost me a semi finals match in ROA tourney on my Graveler.It hits Graveler like i just said but also Sudowoodo,Dugtrioand Cubone.You can also run Rest instead of HP grass if you want.Lastly Explosion is pretty much mandatory lol
8A148754-2958-48B2-90E7-A499D61A7FE1.jpeg



Dragonair is really being one of the MVPs of my teams.With Ice Beam,Thunderbolt,Light Screen and Thunder Wave it has Boltbeam coverage only resisted by the rare Magnemite and can be a very useful support pokemon.Against Xatu it can cripple non rest versions making that menace much easier to handle.It also just hits so much common stuff very hard like Dewgong(alough you wanna fight that with a screen up),Mantine,Azumarrill,Kingler,Dugtrio,Cubone and Fearow.It really is a team supporter and offensive mon all in one slot so I think Dragonair is a great Pokemon
9DEDC3B1-4712-437C-A205-4B7B73B1BB87.jpeg


Last is the MVP of my teams every time Fearow.Fearow is one of the best offensive threats available.While its bulk is worse then Pidgeot its power and better flying stab in Drill Peck makes up for that.Sub is a very useful tool to use on asleep Pokemon(usually from my Rapidash Hypnosis).HP Ground is the other move for finishing weakened Gravler,Magmenmite and Corsola.Double Edge just hits stuff so hard.Late Game when Rock types are down Fearow can just sweep the rest of the opposing team.I personally believe Fearow to be the second best Pokemon in the tier behind Xatu and just above Weezing.
9B97E562-6283-4AD9-AFEF-80827F497C76.jpeg


There are five Pokemon I believe to be top tiers in GSC NU that I dont see talked about much
btw,will there any be any analysis for GSC NU made?Too my knowledge GSC NU is the only tier right now out of all 8 gens to not have any(discounting Gen 8 PU which has barely existed).We got some revamped GSC UU ones recently like Haunter and Omastar so I think the best tier ever(imo) deserves some
 
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Earthworm

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I recently held a swiss GSC NU tournament with five rounds over Discord, and I am posting the stats from that tournament below.

GSC NU Swiss Tournament Stats

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Xatu               |   43 |  59.72% |  58.14% |
| 2    | Pineco             |   34 |  47.22% |  52.94% |
| 3    | Octillery          |   31 |  43.06% |  41.94% |
| 4    | Flareon            |   28 |  38.89% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Chinchou           |   22 |  30.56% |  63.64% |
| 5    | Graveler           |   22 |  30.56% |  36.36% |
| 7    | Weezing            |   21 |  29.17% |  52.38% |
| 8    | Dewgong            |   19 |  26.39% |  68.42% |
| 8    | Wigglytuff         |   19 |  26.39% |  26.32% |
| 10   | Sudowoodo          |   12 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 10   | Lickitung          |   12 |  16.67% |  25.00% |
| 12   | Magmar             |   11 |  15.28% |  63.64% |
| 12   | Magnemite          |   11 |  15.28% |  54.55% |
| 14   | Kingler            |   10 |  13.89% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Primeape           |   10 |  13.89% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Stantler           |    9 |  12.50% |  66.67% |
| 16   | Persian            |    9 |  12.50% |  33.33% |
| 18   | Rapidash           |    8 |  11.11% |  62.50% |
| 18   | Dugtrio            |    8 |  11.11% |  25.00% |
| 20   | Gastly             |    7 |   9.72% |  42.86% |
| 20   | Ninetales          |    7 |   9.72% |  28.57% |
| 22   | Bayleef            |    6 |   8.33% |  16.67% |
| 23   | Delibird           |    5 |   6.94% |  40.00% |
| 23   | Dunsparce          |    5 |   6.94% |  40.00% |
| 23   | Shuckle            |    5 |   6.94% |   0.00% |
| 26   | Exeggcute          |    4 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Parasect           |    4 |   5.56% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Azumarill          |    4 |   5.56% |  25.00% |
| 26   | Mantine            |    4 |   5.56% |   0.00% |
| 30   | Sneasel            |    3 |   4.17% |  66.67% |
| 30   | Pidgeot            |    3 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Elekid             |    2 |   2.78% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Hitmonlee          |    2 |   2.78% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Magcargo           |    2 |   2.78% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Staryu             |    2 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Dragonair          |    2 |   2.78% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Fearow             |    1 |   1.39% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Houndour           |    1 |   1.39% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Machoke            |    1 |   1.39% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Raticate           |    1 |   1.39% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Seaking            |    1 |   1.39% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Flaaffy            |    1 |   1.39% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Poliwhirl          |    1 |   1.39% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Hitmonchan         |    1 |   1.39% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Corsola            |    1 |   1.39% |   0.00% |
Additionally, the stats from the GSC NU spotlight ladder are available here (no win rates though).

Here are the stats from the finals replays of all GSC NU tour night tours since the most recent bans came into effect:
RoA Tour Nights: GSC NU

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Weezing            |   28 |  58.33% |  46.43% |
| 2    | Xatu               |   26 |  54.17% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Octillery          |   23 |  47.92% |  47.83% |
| 4    | Graveler           |   19 |  39.58% |  26.32% |
| 5    | Flareon            |   18 |  37.50% |  38.89% |
| 6    | Wigglytuff         |   16 |  33.33% |  43.75% |
| 7    | Dewgong            |   13 |  27.08% |  61.54% |
| 8    | Pineco             |   11 |  22.92% |  63.64% |
| 8    | Dugtrio            |   11 |  22.92% |  63.64% |
| 10   | Stantler           |   10 |  20.83% |  60.00% |
| 11   | Primeape           |    8 |  16.67% |  62.50% |
| 11   | Dunsparce          |    8 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Magmar             |    7 |  14.58% |  71.43% |
| 13   | Magnemite          |    7 |  14.58% |  28.57% |
| 15   | Ninetales          |    6 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Lickitung          |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 16   | Kingler            |    5 |  10.42% |  60.00% |
| 16   | Pidgeot            |    5 |  10.42% |  40.00% |
| 19   | Rapidash           |    4 |   8.33% |  75.00% |
| 19   | Houndour           |    4 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Azumarill          |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 21   | Tangela            |    3 |   6.25% |  33.33% |
| 23   | Exeggcute          |    2 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 23   | Corsola            |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Fearow             |    2 |   4.17% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Delibird           |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Hitmonlee          |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Shuckle            |    2 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Gastly             |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Sudowoodo          |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Sunflora           |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Parasect           |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Persian            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Mantine            |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Chinchou           |    1 |   2.08% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Arbok              |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Golbat             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Hitmonchan         |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Bayleef            |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Ledian             |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Hitmontop          |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Butterfree         |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Sneasel            |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Abra               |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Dragonair          |    1 |   2.08% |   0.00% |
Here are the stats from the GSC NU Tournament held here on Smogon a few months ago (although I only have about a quarter of the replays):
GSC NU Tournament

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Xatu               |   19 |  67.86% |  68.42% |
| 2    | Graveler           |   12 |  42.86% |  58.33% |
| 2    | Octillery          |   12 |  42.86% |  58.33% |
| 2    | Weezing            |   12 |  42.86% |  58.33% |
| 5    | Pineco             |   10 |  35.71% |  80.00% |
| 5    | Wigglytuff         |   10 |  35.71% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Sudowoodo          |   10 |  35.71% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Flareon            |    6 |  21.43% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Magmar             |    6 |  21.43% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Murkrow            |    6 |  21.43% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Tangela            |    6 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Primeape           |    6 |  21.43% |  16.67% |
| 13   | Dugtrio            |    5 |  17.86% |  20.00% |
| 14   | Dewgong            |    4 |  14.29% |  75.00% |
| 14   | Kingler            |    4 |  14.29% |  75.00% |
| 14   | Rapidash           |    4 |  14.29% |  25.00% |
| 17   | Hitmonchan         |    3 |  10.71% |   0.00% |
| 17   | Venomoth           |    3 |  10.71% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Magnemite          |    2 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Stantler           |    2 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Lickitung          |    2 |   7.14% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Chinchou           |    2 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Voltorb            |    2 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Gastly             |    2 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Exeggcute          |    2 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 19   | Ninetales          |    2 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Parasect           |    1 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 27   | Pidgeot            |    1 |   3.57% | 100.00% |
| 27   | Fearow             |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Ariados            |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Cubone             |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Sneasel            |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Butterfree         |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Dragonair          |    1 |   3.57% |   0.00% |
Here are the stats from Origin Mixed League GSC NU:
OML

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Xatu               |   10 |  71.43% |  40.00% |
| 2    | Pineco             |    8 |  57.14% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Graveler           |    8 |  57.14% |  50.00% |
| 4    | Dewgong            |    6 |  42.86% |  83.33% |
| 5    | Octillery          |    5 |  35.71% |  60.00% |
| 5    | Magmar             |    5 |  35.71% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Rapidash           |    4 |  28.57% |  75.00% |
| 7    | Stantler           |    4 |  28.57% |  50.00% |
| 7    | Sudowoodo          |    4 |  28.57% |  50.00% |
| 7    | Ninetales          |    4 |  28.57% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Flareon            |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 11   | Magnemite          |    3 |  21.43% |  33.33% |
| 11   | Exeggcute          |    3 |  21.43% |   0.00% |
| 14   | Kingler            |    2 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Primeape           |    2 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Weezing            |    2 |  14.29% |  50.00% |
| 17   | Skiploom           |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 17   | Shuckle            |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 17   | Azumarill          |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 17   | Fearow             |    1 |   7.14% | 100.00% |
| 17   | Chinchou           |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 17   | Corsola            |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 17   | Wigglytuff         |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 17   | Seadra             |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
| 17   | Lickitung          |    1 |   7.14% |   0.00% |
Lastly, here are combined stats from all of the above tournament replays:
Combined Stats

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Xatu               |   98 |  60.49% |  56.12% |
| 2    | Octillery          |   71 |  43.83% |  47.89% |
| 3    | Pineco             |   63 |  38.89% |  58.73% |
| 3    | Weezing            |   63 |  38.89% |  50.79% |
| 5    | Graveler           |   61 |  37.65% |  39.34% |
| 6    | Flareon            |   55 |  33.95% |  47.27% |
| 7    | Wigglytuff         |   46 |  28.40% |  36.96% |
| 8    | Dewgong            |   42 |  25.93% |  69.05% |
| 9    | Magmar             |   29 |  17.90% |  62.07% |
| 10   | Sudowoodo          |   27 |  16.67% |  62.96% |
| 11   | Chinchou           |   26 |  16.05% |  57.69% |
| 11   | Primeape           |   26 |  16.05% |  46.15% |
| 13   | Stantler           |   25 |  15.43% |  60.00% |
| 14   | Dugtrio            |   24 |  14.81% |  41.67% |
| 15   | Magnemite          |   23 |  14.20% |  43.48% |
| 16   | Kingler            |   21 |  12.96% |  57.14% |
| 17   | Rapidash           |   20 |  12.35% |  60.00% |
| 17   | Lickitung          |   20 |  12.35% |  35.00% |
| 19   | Ninetales          |   19 |  11.73% |  36.84% |
| 20   | Dunsparce          |   13 |   8.02% |  46.15% |
| 21   | Exeggcute          |   11 |   6.79% |  36.36% |
| 22   | Gastly             |   10 |   6.17% |  40.00% |
| 22   | Persian            |   10 |   6.17% |  40.00% |
| 24   | Pidgeot            |    9 |   5.56% |  33.33% |
| 24   | Tangela            |    9 |   5.56% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Azumarill          |    8 |   4.94% |  37.50% |
| 26   | Shuckle            |    8 |   4.94% |  12.50% |
| 28   | Delibird           |    7 |   4.32% |  28.57% |
| 28   | Bayleef            |    7 |   4.32% |  14.29% |
| 30   | Parasect           |    6 |   3.70% |  66.67% |
| 30   | Murkrow            |    6 |   3.70% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Fearow             |    5 |   3.09% |  60.00% |
| 32   | Houndour           |    5 |   3.09% |  60.00% |
| 32   | Sneasel            |    5 |   3.09% |  40.00% |
| 32   | Mantine            |    5 |   3.09% |  20.00% |
| 32   | Hitmonchan         |    5 |   3.09% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Hitmonlee          |    4 |   2.47% |  25.00% |
| 37   | Corsola            |    4 |   2.47% |  25.00% |
| 37   | Dragonair          |    4 |   2.47% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Venomoth           |    3 |   1.85% |   0.00% |
| 41   | Elekid             |    2 |   1.23% | 100.00% |
| 41   | Magcargo           |    2 |   1.23% |  50.00% |
| 41   | Staryu             |    2 |   1.23% |   0.00% |
| 41   | Butterfree         |    2 |   1.23% |   0.00% |
| 41   | Voltorb            |    2 |   1.23% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Machoke            |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Raticate           |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Seaking            |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Flaaffy            |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Poliwhirl          |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Sunflora           |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Skiploom           |    1 |   0.62% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Arbok              |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Golbat             |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Ledian             |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Hitmontop          |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Abra               |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Ariados            |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Cubone             |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Seadra             |    1 |   0.62% |   0.00% |
From these stats, we can see that:
:gs/Xatu: Xatu is clearly the best Pokemon as is evident from its positive win rate despite being first in usage.
:gs/Dewgong: Dewgong is doing extremely well, which I attribute to its great matchup against Xatu and general good bulk.
:gs/Pineco: Pineco is clearly the spiker of choice, which I feel is obviously due to its powerful Explosion.
:gs/Graveler: :gs/Sudowoodo: Graveler is significantly underperforming. I suspect a lot of them are getting caught out by HP Grass/Water or finding themselves in situations where they have to explode immediately. Meanwhile, Sudowoodo is excelling in the role of Normal-resist and also has a strong Self-Destruct.
:gs/Chinchou: Chinchou is doing very well in its anti-Water role and is not even entirely one-dimensional as I have seen support sets with Thunder Wave and Light Screen as well as a lot of RestTalk with Thunder and Surf.
:gs/Exeggcute: :gs/Tangela: :gs/Parasect: :gs/Bayleef: Grass-types are doing poorly overall, although Parasect has somehow won two thirds of its games.
:gs/Ninetales: :gs/Shuckle: :gs/Mantine: :gs/Azumarill: Defensive Pokemon are doing poorly in general. Perhaps the tier's offensive Pokemon are too much for them to handle.

While I feel there is still a lot more exploration to be done with this tier, we may have enough data and experience now for an initial VR. I will organise a ranking collection mechanism in the next few days. Please send me a message or post below if you want to be involved.
 
Last edited:
Anyone have any insight into why normal types have done so poorly? With the exception of sudowoodo, their common checks haven’t performed well either.
 

xJoelituh

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Anyone have any insight into why normal types have done so poorly? With the exception of sudowoodo, their common checks haven’t performed well either.
People are way more prepared against them in general, Weezing, the Rocks, Primeape and Magnemite being everywhere do not help at all, plus some Dewgong are even going for Encore to beat Curse Wiggly. (Which i feel like right now it's the only good normal type). Some of the bulky water can also wall the no-curse sets and shrug off the damage with restalk.
Although, I'd say I did have some success with HP Grass techs + Wiggly on the recent Smogon GSC NU tour. Which is why I think Sudo is the best normal resist at the moment since it cannot be tech'd so easily but it does get butt hurted by the spiked usage of Double water offenses
 
People are way more prepared against them in general, Weezing, the Rocks, Primeape and Magnemite being everywhere do not help at all, plus some Dewgong are even going for Encore to beat Curse Wiggly. (Which i feel like right now it's the only good normal type). Some of the bulky water can also wall the no-curse sets and shrug off the damage with restalk.
Although, I'd say I did have some success with HP Grass techs + Wiggly on the recent Smogon GSC NU tour. Which is why I think Sudo is the best normal resist at the moment since it cannot be tech'd so easily but it does get butt hurted by the spiked usage of Double water offenses
I guess it makes sense then that stantler has been the best by a considerable margin, seeing as it’s the only one that typically carries EQ
 
| 13 | Stantler | 25 | 15.43% | 60.00% |
| 32 | Fearow | 5 | 3.09% | 60.00% |
| 20 | Dunsparce | 13 | 8.02% | 46.15% |
| 22 | Persian | 10 | 6.17% | 40.00% |
| 7 | Wigglytuff | 46 | 28.40% | 36.96% |
| 17 | Lickitung | 20 | 12.35% | 35.00% |
| 24 | Pidgeot | 9 | 5.56% | 33.33% |
--------------------------------------------
| 46 | Raticate | 1 | 0.62% | 100.00% |
Going by winrates, it seems that slow setup Normals fail to get wins more often than not, while speedy offensive Normals (and Dunsparce) fare notably better. Movesets aren't listed, but since it appears that Dunsparce was only utilized recently, I'd guess they used my Thunder/Pursuit set which gives you a fat pursuit trapper to support teammates vulnerable to Xatu (and Gastly), which probably gave it a higher winrate compared to its fellow slow Normals due to not caring as much about Weezing/Rocks/Primeape/Magnemite switching in as other Normals as it still gets what it wants done whenever it gets Pursuit damage on its targets.
 
Thanks first of all to Earthworm . You brought to my attention of the existence of a tier I could fall back to whenever I got tired and needed a break from OU. You are a great and passionate player and, unlike me, you never stopped experimenting with the potential of mons and never stopped with only looking at the potential of mons that you found yourself most comfortable with. Thanks also for keeping in touch with me for matters on the meta and for inviting me to tournaments.

I think that my underperformance at the Swiss Format came as an odd surprise to myself, but it was beneficial in a way. I learned that spending an afternoon or two writing down calcs and taking notes isn't going to be enough to give me an edge in competition, especially when refusing to look beyond what I already knew about the threatlist. It was kinda fun though, finding myself getting bopped by the likes of magcargo, arbok and chinchou to name a few (the latter HOLY SHITT).
Lastly I think that plenty of mons are great because of how they are able to check each other, albeit without clear 100% victory rate in every scenario against what they like to threaten. This only goes to confirm what I believe and it's that even though the top mon cannot 2hko most of the top10 threats in the meta it's still the strongest for its intrinsic values,ie. Xatu is pretty fast and it is likely to make most of its turns attacking count.

If there is a pokemon that I tried pushing, and perhaps failed, but that I sincerely recommend trying it's Staryu.
With spikes being pretty common (although we are learning not to use it too) and not as many effective spinners to boot that aren't threatened by the common waters and fires Staryu comes with the qualities of a respectable speed for the generally slow meta (258iirc), recovery, resistance to water stab and the ability to threaten waters with electric coverage. It's should be clear then that it can fit in a valid slot on any team that might have a bad matchup against fire bulky and slow water or fire types and teams that like to abuse spikes as a form of offence (though hp electric and grass coverage hurt it a lot).

Keep grinding and experimenting guys.
 
946AB75F-4748-4D2C-A270-0728585675E6.jpeg

Seadra @ Mystic Water
Ability: none
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Over the past few days I’ve been trying to make some much lesser used Pokemon in GSC NU work and I’ve found that Seadra is among the most dangerous,underatted cleaners available.Seadra is the best rain sweeper in GSC,It has among the highest special attack stats in the tier,tying with the omnipresent Xatu and has a good speed tier to boot.However if you can manage to get that crucial Rain Dance off and your Octillery/Dewgong are in HP Electric range then it can be curtains.Hydro Pump absolutelty decimates anything thats not a resist,infact heres some calcs under rain

Mystic Water Seadra Hydro Pump vs. Wigglytuff in Rain: 314-369 (65 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mystic Water Seadra Hydro Pump vs. Xatu in Rain: 261-307 (78.3 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mystic Water Seadra Hydro Pump vs. Weezing in Rain: 261-307 (78.3 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mystic Water Seadra Hydro Pump vs. Lickitung in Rain: 248-292 (64.7 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


These Pokemon are very common right now and with a bit of chip and Spike down they can all be decimated.Even something as niche and bulky as Noctowl is cleanly 2HKOd by Hydro Pump.Infact Ice Beam is actually outdamaged in most situations because of the sheer power of Hydro Pump.Ofcouse its not invincible as the recent Dewgong and Octillery craze hurts it as HP Elec only 3HKOs both.But anyway Seadra is a very underatted threat that I believe should get more attention
 
Seadra @ Mystic Water
Ability: none
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Over the past few days I’ve been trying to make some much lesser used Pokemon in GSC NU work and I’ve found that Seadra is among the most dangerous,underatted cleaners available.Seadra is the best rain sweeper in GSC,It has among the highest special attack stats in the tier,tying with the omnipresent Xatu and has a good speed tier to boot.However if you can manage to get that crucial Rain Dance off and your Octillery/Dewgong are in HP Electric range then it can be curtains.Hydro Pump absolutelty decimates anything thats not a resist,infact heres some calcs under rain
If there was something I found hardest to place on my rankings, Seadra was easily the one among those with the most potential.
The problem I find with set up is that Seadra draws in a water type which, as it stands, seems to be obligatory to have at least 1 of. That and the fact how common it is for late game to close with high speed mons means you are unlikely going to be able to win the speed creep, so setup of rain is even harder than it might seem. Hp electric isn't gonna stop even no rest dewgong without spikes, so you find yourself with a water type that gets walled and your slot which you could use helping you is already being used for spikes support.
I am not saying it's not viable. It's great. But rain looks situational. I might recommend using something like chinchou twave support w Thunderbolt (or straight up thunder) as it takes care of most of its checks and even has a viable rest talk set to go with.
 
I can agree that Seadra can be inconsistent at times.Dewgong,Octillery and even Chinchou are very prominent which makes it struggle at times.Chinchou is a great partner as it deals well with the first two and can get lucky in a mirror match.Tbh I’m starting to believe that if your team doesn’t have a check to these three then that team is unviable.
 
065B3A35-DD6F-46A6-9DF7-0238AD53A0B8.jpeg
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Something intresting I’ve been thinking about recently,was the proposition of bringing Crobat and Gligar down to GSC NU.Personally,I feel the metagame is very much fine at the moment and these two Pokemon would add more diversity.Im 99% sure Crobat would have a bigger impact than Gligar because Gligar would face competition from Graveler who is better at tanking most physcial hits and has a much better movepool.However Gligar would have niche because of its typing allowing to wall pretty much every fighting type.Gligar would fit perfectly fine in the metagame I feel and Gligar doesnt see a ton of usuage in GSC UU.


Crobat on the other hand would be very intresting.It is even more eligable then Gligar for GSC NU,Just look at the GSC UU viability where its in C rank and is the lowest ranked UU Pokemon.If Crobat was in the tier then it would be a great,maybe top tier Pokemon in the tier.It would be quite the diverse Pokemon thanks to solid overall stats.It would take Dugtrios place as the fastest Pokemon available aswell as Flareons place as the highest BST.It has a solid 90 attack and Screech to force switches and with Spikes down it could prove a good sweeper with Return/Wing Attack being its main attack with coverage in HP Ground or Giga Drain.Crobat also would prove to be a good defesive Pokemon thanks to walling fighting,grass and poison types.However this would expose Crobats biggest problem,its bad defensive typing.Being weak to all four of Ice,Electric,Rock and especially Psychic when the best Pokemon is a special psychic sweeper would be very bad.In addition its movepool is shallow with no good stab attack except HP Flying which cuts its Bulk and prevents it from running HP Fighting.Sudowoodo,Dewgong,Weezing,Xatu,Graveler(if it doesnt have Giga Drain) and Chinchou would all wall it and 2HKO it,and all of these Pokemon are very common so it wouldnt be broken for the tier IMO

I know right now is not the ideal time to see if these should drop into the tier with the Viability Rankings be updated but maybe for the future if could happen

Edit:I just got a replay with Crobat in it https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2uu-1117612077
 
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Earthworm

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gligar / crobat drop suggestion
I'm not considering any tiering changes currently as the metagame seems stable and balanced. For a drop to be an option I would say there would need to be perceived imbalance in NU, a proven lack of usage/viability in UU, and widespread community support.
 
Pretty much every Stantler I’ve seen has had EQ because for Gastly and then rock types but EQ Lickitung is starting to become more common with Sleep Talk starting to fall off on Lick now.You really need EQ for the rocks and Gastly as those are becoming more common because to deal with the rise of sweeing normal types like Curse Wigglytuff and SD Lickitung
 
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I would like to share a GSC NU team that I have been using an absolute ton whenever I just want to win a game(I still mosly use all the fun stuff though).If anyone wants to use this team,heres a Pokepaste https://pokepast.es/a31dc89820604a43



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Rapidash
Leftovers

Moves
Fire Blast
Hypnosis
Double Edge
Substitute

Rapidash has in my opinion become the best lead in the entire metagame.Sure having Spikes very early on is great and all but Rapidash is just so powerful as a lead.Rapidash can either Hypnosis or Substitute to disrupt the opposing team.It also destroys the common Spiker leads as it OHKOs both with Fire Blast and can Hypnosis something else and wear it down



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Xatu
Leftovers

Moves
Psychic
Drill Peck
Hidden Power Ice
Haze

Xatu is the best Pokemon in the whole tier so its certainly on the team.Amazing Stab Combo,Great Speed and Special Attack and incredible diversity makes it a flexible attacker.It deals with all the Poison types on the team for Weezing to be a great wallbreaker.Its also just very deadly late game as Weezing can blow up on its checks such as Dewgong and Chinchou


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Lickitug
Mint Berry

Moves
Frustration
Earthquake
Swords Dance
Rest

Lickitung is the second best Pokemon in the entire tier.This set looks odd but it is extremly dangerous.Lick has an easy time setting up SDs with Solid Bulk.After a single Swords Dance nothing and I mean nothing can switch in to this monster.However the main tech with this set is MintRest.Any time Lick gets low it easily regains all of its health for more carnage.Xatu really helps with this as it damages Weezing heavily so its able to be KOd by Earthquake.I just love Lickitung man,its seriously the clear number two in my book


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Chinchou
Leftovers

Moves
Surf
Thunder
Rest
Sleep Talk

It may seem very odd to use what looks like what would seem to be a niche Pokemon on a team this competitive but Chinchou is easily the best electric type in the tier and its main role is taking out Octillery,Dewgong and Xatu.Chinchous type combo make it suprisingly difficult to switch into as it can paralyse stuff very often with Thunder.Chinchou is this teams true bulky water type



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Weezing
Leftovers

Moves
Sludge Bomb
Thunder
Explosion
Fire Blast

Weezing is a very powerful wallbreaker thanks to its amazing coverage moves,good attacking stats and Sludge Bomb‘s poison chance.And anytime you need to KO something Weezing can come in and Explode on it,taking a massive chunk out of everything(excluding the rocks and Gastly) for Xatu to come in and revenge kill.Weezings overall biggest problem is being weak to Xatu but thats what Chinchou is for



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Primape
Leftovers

Moves
Cross Chop
Hidden Power Rock
Meditate
Substitute

Primape was not originally on this team(It used to be Octillery),but after seeing how common all the fighting weak Pokemon are common in the tier I swapped in the Ape.Primape’s job is sweeping teams game along with Xatu and Lickitung as these three work incredibly well together.Unfortunaly unlike Weezing Xatu counters this set.Primape has the job of preventing Normal Types like Lick and Wigglytuff from sweeping
 

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