[OVERVIEW]
Boasting the highest Special Attack stat in the tier, a fantastic typing of pure Water, STAB-boosted Surf that hits several common Pokemon such as Dugtrio, Ninetales, Graveler, and Rapidash for super effective damage while 3HKOing most neutral targets; RestTalk for longevity; and the complementary coverage of Hidden Power Electric or Ice Beam, Octillery makes for a phenomenal choice on many teams. However, while Octillery is amazing, it is not flawless. Octillery is quite slow, being outsped by most offensive threats such as Weezing, Stantler, and Xatu. Additionally, while Octillery is generally bulky enough to handle Pokemon it needs to with RestTalk such as Rapidash and Dugtrio, it can be 3HKOed by strong unresisted STAB moves such as Stantler’s Frustration and Fearow's Double-Edge or a sufficiently strong coverage move, and it can very easily be pushed into 3HKO range of attacks such as Xatu's Psychic by the ubiquitous Spikes. Octillery also has issues with coverage, as with Ice Beam, it is walled by opposing Octillery and Dewgong, while with Hidden Power Electric, it cannot touch Grass-types like Gloom and Exeggcute. Octillery also suffers minor competition with Dewgong, which in exchange for a much weaker Surf, the inability to effectively utilize Hidden Power Electric, and weaknesses to Rock and Fighting along with a lack of a resistance to Fire, provides much more speed and bulk than Octillery and a stronger Ice Beam, resulting in a a significantly superior matchup into Xatu and Fearow. Dewgong also has access to Encore, providing an additional niche that Octillery doesn’t have. However, Octillery's greater power, which lets it 3HKO Stantler and sometimes Wigglytuff, and its better/more practical defensive utility and pure Water typing making it a much better check to Magmar, Sudowoodo, and Sunny Day Ninetales often make it the superior choice on teams.
[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Surf
move 2: Hidden Power Electric / Ice Beam
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Surf and RestTalk are essential to Octillery's core function as a powerful Water-type with solid longevity. Hidden Power Electric most importantly hits other Octillery for a 3HKO and potentially 3HKOes Dewgong with a critical hit. At the very least, it consistently forces Dewgong to use Rest, providing entry for threats like Primeape and Stantler. Hidden Power Electric also retains the ability to hit Xatu and Fearow hard while using Sleep Talk, which Hidden Power Grass cannot do. Ice Beam leaves Octillery walled by other Octillery, but means it is no longer blocked from making progress by Gloom or other Grass-types and hits Xatu and Fearow much harder than Surf or Hidden Power Electric. It also prevents Dugtrio from having a two-thirds chance to not be hit by Octillery when it is asleep, making trying to fish for a non-damaging move to safely use Substitute and Screech much riskier, does not reduce Octillery's DVs, making answering Xatu much easier, and has a potentially crucial chance to freeze on any given usage, which over time can potentially shut down checks like Chinchou and other Hidden Power Electric Octillery. While Ice Beam seems to have much larger upside than Hidden Power Electric, giving free entry to opposing Octillery tends to be disastrous for many teams, so ideally it should be used alongside another Pokemon that can answer opposing Octillery.
Team Options
========
Pineco is a great partner for Octillery, as its Spikes make switching in Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff that are neutral to Surf and can threaten Octillery much more punishing. Chinchou and Hitmonlee make running Ice Beam on Octillery a lot more forgiving, as they are great checks to other Octillery and appreciate it having a second move to hit Dugtrio and not losing bulk from Hidden Power Electric's DV requirements. Chinchou and Hitmonlee also answer Dewgong, which counters Ice Beam Octillery and can freely fish for freezes with its own Ice Beam. Xatu and Fearow are great answers to Hitmonlee and Grass-types like Gloom and Exeggcute that answer Hidden Power Electric Octillery while also helping Octillery not get overwhelmed by Dugtrio. Fearow, in addition to Wigglytuff, appreciates Octillery forcing Sudowoodo and Graveler to sacrifice themselves with Self-Destruct and Explosion, respectively, to break through it. This can result in a scenario where Sudowoodo is forced to choose between repeatedly coming into Fearow and Wigglytuff but giving up relatively free entry to Octillery or using Self-Destruct on Octillery but leaving its team vulnerable to Fearow and Wigglytuff. Octillery-weak Pokemon like Ninetales, Dugtrio, and Graveler enjoy having a Hidden Power Electric Octillery of their own to switch into other Octillery. All three of these Pokemon can also check Weezing, with Graveler also checking Fearow and spinning away Spikes for Octillery, while Ninetales helps build a sturdier defensive force against Xatu and Magmar. Rapidash also makes for a solid partner, as while its lesser bulk makes it a worse check to Weezing and Hidden Power Ground Magmar than Ninetales, it is much better at forcing damage on Chinchou and is a great answer to Sunny Day Ninetales. Porygon and Magmar are countered by Ninetales, so Octillery is a natural fit alongside them. Gloom and other Grass-types also like Octillery for the same reason, and aid in the Octillery mirror matchup too.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Octillery can use Hidden Power Grass to hit Chinchou super effectively and have a second move to hit Ground-types like Dugtrio while using Sleep Talk, similar to Ice Beam, while retaining a super effective hit on opposing Octillery and Dewgong. However, Hidden Power Grass significantly reduces Octillery's DVs, making it a worse check to threats like Xatu and Magmar, and unlike Hidden Power Electric and Ice Beam, it cannot hit Xatu and Fearow for meaningful damage when Octillery is using Sleep Talk. Octillery can forgo Sleep Talk in favor of Amnesia to make it in theory much sturdier against threats like Xatu, opposing Octillery, and Magmar, but it means Octillery is constantly being pressured to use Rest due to a lack of having Sleep Talk, and Amnesia does not prevent Octillery from taking significant damage from strong physical hits like Stantler's Frustration, Fearow's Double-Edge, and Primeape's Cross Chop. Octillery can use Surf / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass / Protect as a Growth recipient, similar to Dewgong. However, Dewgong tends to be the far superior choice because it is significantly faster and bulkier. RestTalk Octillery with Hidden Power Electric will also often be a superior Growth recipient. Octillery can choose to use a set consisting of Curse, Return, Amnesia, and Rest to take advantage of its high Attack stat and solid typing. However, it has difficulty switching into attacks without Sleep Talk, is slow, can be overwhelmed by Spikes, strong moves, and Explosion; and it tends to be outclassed by Curse Wigglytuff and Porygon.
Checks and Counters
===================
**Chinchou**: Chinchou counters Octillery—bar a freeze from Ice Beam—as it resists Surf and Ice Beam, takes little from Hidden Power Electric, is faster, and 2HKOes Octillery with Thunder.
**Bulky Water-types**: Hidden Power Electric Octillery is the most common check to other Octillery, as it resists Surf and can 3HKO with Hidden Power Electric, quickly forcing the opponent to use Rest or switch their Octillery out. Dewgong cannot do significant damage to Octillery, having to fish for an Ice Beam freeze to do anything to it, but it is not 3HKOed by Hidden Power Electric without a critical hit, can PP stall Ice Beam Octillery, and is faster. Additionally, if Dewgong has Toxic and Encore, it can directly beat Octillery at the cost of potentially being worn down by Hidden Power Electric long-term.
**Hitmonlee**: Hitmonlee avoids a 3HKO from Surf, outspeeding and 3HKOing back with High Jump Kick while and having Rest and Sleep Talk to keep itself alive. However, it can be pushed into range of a 3HKO from Surf by Spikes or a miss from High Jump Kick.
**Grass-types**: Gloom and other Grass-types are reliable answers to Hidden Power Electric Octillery, keeping themselves healthy throughout a battle with Synthesis and 3HKOing with STAB Grass moves or, in the case of Gloom, Curse-boosted Sludge Bombs. However, they take significant damage from Ice Beam and are generally poor offensively.
**Porygon**: Porygon avoids a 2HKO from Surf and can repeatedly use Recover to bring itself back to full health. It additionally has Thunder Wave to slow down and potentially fully paralyze Octillery. Porygon can then use the paralyzed Octillery to boost up with Curse or fire off Thunders. However, Porygon is slower than Octillery and only barely manages to dodge a 2HKO from full health, so if there are Spikes on the field or Porygon has taken chip damage, it is not an effective switch-in to Octillery. Porygon also gives Octillery many chances to critically hit it while attempting to boost with Curse.
**Strong Attackers**: While not reliable switch-ins, Octillery can be directly beaten by threats like Weezing, Primeape, and Stantler, and it has significantly more trouble answering Xatu if it has Hidden Power Electric and Spikes are on the field.
[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/beeorsomething.583728/
Earlier versions written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/earthworm.15210/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/estarossa.461329/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/togkey.400664/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/rabia.336073/
Boasting the highest Special Attack stat in the tier, a fantastic typing of pure Water, STAB-boosted Surf that hits several common Pokemon such as Dugtrio, Ninetales, Graveler, and Rapidash for super effective damage while 3HKOing most neutral targets; RestTalk for longevity; and the complementary coverage of Hidden Power Electric or Ice Beam, Octillery makes for a phenomenal choice on many teams. However, while Octillery is amazing, it is not flawless. Octillery is quite slow, being outsped by most offensive threats such as Weezing, Stantler, and Xatu. Additionally, while Octillery is generally bulky enough to handle Pokemon it needs to with RestTalk such as Rapidash and Dugtrio, it can be 3HKOed by strong unresisted STAB moves such as Stantler’s Frustration and Fearow's Double-Edge or a sufficiently strong coverage move, and it can very easily be pushed into 3HKO range of attacks such as Xatu's Psychic by the ubiquitous Spikes. Octillery also has issues with coverage, as with Ice Beam, it is walled by opposing Octillery and Dewgong, while with Hidden Power Electric, it cannot touch Grass-types like Gloom and Exeggcute. Octillery also suffers minor competition with Dewgong, which in exchange for a much weaker Surf, the inability to effectively utilize Hidden Power Electric, and weaknesses to Rock and Fighting along with a lack of a resistance to Fire, provides much more speed and bulk than Octillery and a stronger Ice Beam, resulting in a a significantly superior matchup into Xatu and Fearow. Dewgong also has access to Encore, providing an additional niche that Octillery doesn’t have. However, Octillery's greater power, which lets it 3HKO Stantler and sometimes Wigglytuff, and its better/more practical defensive utility and pure Water typing making it a much better check to Magmar, Sudowoodo, and Sunny Day Ninetales often make it the superior choice on teams.
[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Surf
move 2: Hidden Power Electric / Ice Beam
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Surf and RestTalk are essential to Octillery's core function as a powerful Water-type with solid longevity. Hidden Power Electric most importantly hits other Octillery for a 3HKO and potentially 3HKOes Dewgong with a critical hit. At the very least, it consistently forces Dewgong to use Rest, providing entry for threats like Primeape and Stantler. Hidden Power Electric also retains the ability to hit Xatu and Fearow hard while using Sleep Talk, which Hidden Power Grass cannot do. Ice Beam leaves Octillery walled by other Octillery, but means it is no longer blocked from making progress by Gloom or other Grass-types and hits Xatu and Fearow much harder than Surf or Hidden Power Electric. It also prevents Dugtrio from having a two-thirds chance to not be hit by Octillery when it is asleep, making trying to fish for a non-damaging move to safely use Substitute and Screech much riskier, does not reduce Octillery's DVs, making answering Xatu much easier, and has a potentially crucial chance to freeze on any given usage, which over time can potentially shut down checks like Chinchou and other Hidden Power Electric Octillery. While Ice Beam seems to have much larger upside than Hidden Power Electric, giving free entry to opposing Octillery tends to be disastrous for many teams, so ideally it should be used alongside another Pokemon that can answer opposing Octillery.
Team Options
========
Pineco is a great partner for Octillery, as its Spikes make switching in Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff that are neutral to Surf and can threaten Octillery much more punishing. Chinchou and Hitmonlee make running Ice Beam on Octillery a lot more forgiving, as they are great checks to other Octillery and appreciate it having a second move to hit Dugtrio and not losing bulk from Hidden Power Electric's DV requirements. Chinchou and Hitmonlee also answer Dewgong, which counters Ice Beam Octillery and can freely fish for freezes with its own Ice Beam. Xatu and Fearow are great answers to Hitmonlee and Grass-types like Gloom and Exeggcute that answer Hidden Power Electric Octillery while also helping Octillery not get overwhelmed by Dugtrio. Fearow, in addition to Wigglytuff, appreciates Octillery forcing Sudowoodo and Graveler to sacrifice themselves with Self-Destruct and Explosion, respectively, to break through it. This can result in a scenario where Sudowoodo is forced to choose between repeatedly coming into Fearow and Wigglytuff but giving up relatively free entry to Octillery or using Self-Destruct on Octillery but leaving its team vulnerable to Fearow and Wigglytuff. Octillery-weak Pokemon like Ninetales, Dugtrio, and Graveler enjoy having a Hidden Power Electric Octillery of their own to switch into other Octillery. All three of these Pokemon can also check Weezing, with Graveler also checking Fearow and spinning away Spikes for Octillery, while Ninetales helps build a sturdier defensive force against Xatu and Magmar. Rapidash also makes for a solid partner, as while its lesser bulk makes it a worse check to Weezing and Hidden Power Ground Magmar than Ninetales, it is much better at forcing damage on Chinchou and is a great answer to Sunny Day Ninetales. Porygon and Magmar are countered by Ninetales, so Octillery is a natural fit alongside them. Gloom and other Grass-types also like Octillery for the same reason, and aid in the Octillery mirror matchup too.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Octillery can use Hidden Power Grass to hit Chinchou super effectively and have a second move to hit Ground-types like Dugtrio while using Sleep Talk, similar to Ice Beam, while retaining a super effective hit on opposing Octillery and Dewgong. However, Hidden Power Grass significantly reduces Octillery's DVs, making it a worse check to threats like Xatu and Magmar, and unlike Hidden Power Electric and Ice Beam, it cannot hit Xatu and Fearow for meaningful damage when Octillery is using Sleep Talk. Octillery can forgo Sleep Talk in favor of Amnesia to make it in theory much sturdier against threats like Xatu, opposing Octillery, and Magmar, but it means Octillery is constantly being pressured to use Rest due to a lack of having Sleep Talk, and Amnesia does not prevent Octillery from taking significant damage from strong physical hits like Stantler's Frustration, Fearow's Double-Edge, and Primeape's Cross Chop. Octillery can use Surf / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass / Protect as a Growth recipient, similar to Dewgong. However, Dewgong tends to be the far superior choice because it is significantly faster and bulkier. RestTalk Octillery with Hidden Power Electric will also often be a superior Growth recipient. Octillery can choose to use a set consisting of Curse, Return, Amnesia, and Rest to take advantage of its high Attack stat and solid typing. However, it has difficulty switching into attacks without Sleep Talk, is slow, can be overwhelmed by Spikes, strong moves, and Explosion; and it tends to be outclassed by Curse Wigglytuff and Porygon.
Checks and Counters
===================
**Chinchou**: Chinchou counters Octillery—bar a freeze from Ice Beam—as it resists Surf and Ice Beam, takes little from Hidden Power Electric, is faster, and 2HKOes Octillery with Thunder.
**Bulky Water-types**: Hidden Power Electric Octillery is the most common check to other Octillery, as it resists Surf and can 3HKO with Hidden Power Electric, quickly forcing the opponent to use Rest or switch their Octillery out. Dewgong cannot do significant damage to Octillery, having to fish for an Ice Beam freeze to do anything to it, but it is not 3HKOed by Hidden Power Electric without a critical hit, can PP stall Ice Beam Octillery, and is faster. Additionally, if Dewgong has Toxic and Encore, it can directly beat Octillery at the cost of potentially being worn down by Hidden Power Electric long-term.
**Hitmonlee**: Hitmonlee avoids a 3HKO from Surf, outspeeding and 3HKOing back with High Jump Kick while and having Rest and Sleep Talk to keep itself alive. However, it can be pushed into range of a 3HKO from Surf by Spikes or a miss from High Jump Kick.
**Grass-types**: Gloom and other Grass-types are reliable answers to Hidden Power Electric Octillery, keeping themselves healthy throughout a battle with Synthesis and 3HKOing with STAB Grass moves or, in the case of Gloom, Curse-boosted Sludge Bombs. However, they take significant damage from Ice Beam and are generally poor offensively.
**Porygon**: Porygon avoids a 2HKO from Surf and can repeatedly use Recover to bring itself back to full health. It additionally has Thunder Wave to slow down and potentially fully paralyze Octillery. Porygon can then use the paralyzed Octillery to boost up with Curse or fire off Thunders. However, Porygon is slower than Octillery and only barely manages to dodge a 2HKO from full health, so if there are Spikes on the field or Porygon has taken chip damage, it is not an effective switch-in to Octillery. Porygon also gives Octillery many chances to critically hit it while attempting to boost with Curse.
**Strong Attackers**: While not reliable switch-ins, Octillery can be directly beaten by threats like Weezing, Primeape, and Stantler, and it has significantly more trouble answering Xatu if it has Hidden Power Electric and Spikes are on the field.
[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/beeorsomething.583728/
Earlier versions written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/earthworm.15210/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/estarossa.461329/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/togkey.400664/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/rabia.336073/
Last edited:
