Lower Tiers GSC PU Discussion Thread (Trap Pass Banned Post #55)

[DAWNBUSTER]

GSC PU Discussion Thread

​

Welcome to the GSC PU Discussion Thread! Feel free to discuss various aspects of this tier within this thread, ranging from thoughts on the current metagame, personal team building, to tiering discussion. Within this thread are various high quality resources and posts. If you are looking for the tiers viability rankings, head over to this thread!

PU Council:
torkonpeter Estarossa Aurist DD Joe BeeOrSomething

Thread originally approved in 2020 by Earthworm

 

[Raahel]

Hello, I come to talk about a pokemon not so valued but with very good potential in the GSC PU metagame and a team that I made around it.

Set

Ponyta @ Miracle Berry
Ability: None
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Fire Blast
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ground]

Description

This set I have used mostly as a very dangerous lead, Miracle Berry helps to prevent other leads from falling asleep or paralyzing you before you do it first, most of all it helps for pokemon like Venomoth or other Ponyta, Double Edge and Fire Blast are moves that you must carry, the fourth move can change I use Hp Electric because Ponyta attracts a lot to a possible in of Mantine but HP Grass and HP Ground can work very well too.

(Click Sprites For Importable!)

Other Options:
Mantine Sleep Talk > HP Electric
Tangela Toxic > Stun Spore / Hp Fire
Hitmonchan HP Rock > Hp Ghost

and those already mentioned in Ponyta

and here some replays of the team:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1195931313-uwln0vj5adia4ime379l2zx7srxvqqspw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1195919702-rt8jnfcv3w66vd7e7jxiha3rx3yp19gpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1195912222-30zerdw3zf58kvt97wdfq7tdbc9dv5tpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1195907630-a7zooamn46d30g2ge7so0pdey1dixoxpw

Then I will make another post showing some teams and sets that you can try in this tier, I hope you liked my post, thanks for reading.

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

Here’s some of my other thoughts on different parts of the metagame
BATON PASS

Baton Pass has quickly established itself as one of the most dangerous play styles in the meta game. Aipom is quite a consistent Agility passer, who is able to end games right on the spot if it manages to pass +2 Speed to the dangerous Cubone. Ariados, while less consistent due to its lower speed and unfortunate weakness to Flying which leaves it helpless against one of the most common Hazers in the tier, Murkrow, is still a scary Pokemon to give free turns to, and it can just as easily end games by trapping in something like Hitmonchan that can’t hurt it much. There’s also Eevee, who can pass Growth to Elekid or Seadra, turning them into major threats


DEFENSIVE THREATS

Defensive Pokemon seem to be doing well. Tangela has huge physical bulk which makes it one of the more reliable Furret answers in the tier, aswell as checking most of the Fighting-types. Drowzee has been one of my personal favourite mons to use, since it completely dominates Hitmonchan, Abra, and Elekid. Onix posses a crucial Normal resistanc, and can surprise with the odd Sharpen set. Noctowl posses huge special bulk, which means Elekid only 2HKOs it while it poses a threat with Curse boosted Return, and can avoid being phased with a slow Whirlwind. Parasect resists Fighting and has numerous supporting moves, such as Spore, Light Screen, Reflect, and Stun Spore. Finally, Mantine‘s unmatched Special bulk let it check non Hp Electric variants of Seadra while posing a threat in return thanks to its solid SpA


THE SPIKES METAGAME

Spikes are a huge factor of the metagame. Limiting the switches of Pokemon is hugely valuable when everything is naturally decently bulky. Delibird is one of the most important Pokemon thanks to being the only legal Spiker in the tier, meaning it fits on all sorts of teams. Hitmonchan and Hitmontop are the two most reliable spinners in the tier, due to being excellent Pokemon beyond just spinning, however, they are helpless against the spinblocker of the tier, Gastly. This is where Geodude’s niche comes in, since it can easily blow through Gastly with Earthquake. Finally, Tentacool possesses a Toxic immunity, Although it is incredibly passive


And lastly, here is my current take on a Viability Rankings for GSC PU

S Rank

Furret
Venomoth
Seadra
Murkrow

A Rank

Poliwhirl
Elekid
Hitmontop
Hitmonchan
Tangela
Aipom
Gastly
Abra
Cubone
Mantine
Drowzee
Golbat
Machoke
Rhyhorn
Noctowl

B Rank

Flaaffy
Delibird
Corsola
Parasect
Ponyta
Slowpoke
Wobbuffet
Grimer
Voltorb
Geodude
Snubbull
Charmeleon
Beedrill
Doduo
Eevee

 

[Estarossa]

I've been playing a lot of this tier since it was rereleased, being a big fan of GSC UU already I had high hopes for this tier as a part PU main. Wanted to share my opinions on some of the mons in the metagame, and offer my own take on a VR for this tier.



Furret is probably the top mon in the tier for me, the combination of solid damage output with STAB double edge, solid speed, enough bulk to feasibly avoid being 2hko'd by things like Elekid's Tbolt and set up on stuff like Mantine with Curse + Resttalk, and its ability to act as a solid dangerous win con with Curse makes it one of the most consistent Pokemon that fits so well on teams and is always a huge threat if you aren't running like Macargo / Onix, which can get very easily lured in by sets with Surf > Curse. Answers to it definitely exist in Gastly and Corsola, but this mon is definitely one of the centerpieces of this tier.



Seadra is probably the single biggest offensive threat in the tier in my eyes, although Poliwhirl probably gives it some competition there but Seadra can put a lot more consistent pressure over an entire game multiple times. This thing has multiple viable sets, but Rain Dance sets are the most threatening to me, nerfing Synthesis/Moonlight healing and making your Surf's hit crazy hard off 95 spA. The solid bulk + decent speed tier also lets it eat a decent amount of stuff realistically.

Rain Dance + 3 attacks sets put an enormous amount of pressure on would be checks like Mantine, but my favourite set is probably Rain Dance + Sub Disable sets, which can be incredibly difficult to play around if Disable's actually hit, and let you easily set up on and beat Grasses like Sunflora 1v1 thanks to either them being Giga Drain or you just disabling their Razor Leaf / Hp grass. Used this set versus Earthworm a few times but didn't save replays, but here's another replay of it doing stuff - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2pu-1198795115-a7ylz6f0m7y6oek7hyktn8so0j51hk1pw.

Agility sets definitely shouldn't be counted out either though as particularly potent versus more offensive teams late game, especially with a lot of these teams relying on Elekid for it.



This is probably one of my most used mons in the tier right now, being a faster than Poliwhirl hazer is invaluable to a lot of more offensive teams, along with its great offensive attributes as a pursuit trapper + abra/gastly check, and great mixed stab combo in dark+flying letting it threaten a lot of the tier. I definitley think Hidden Power Dark is the best option in your fourth slot after playing with it a lot, having that powerful stab to hit stuff like abra/gastly is invaluable and it hits Elekid way harder on switch in than any non hp ground alternative. Murkrow is just a great glue mon for more offensive teams and really opens up stuff like Curse Furret and Curse/SD Ivysaur by removing Gastly (or Abra) from play.



Poliwhirl definitely stands out as the most objectively broken thing in the tier to me. Belly Drum + lovely Kiss is a really devastasting combination and leaves people reliant on stuff like Haze Murkrow or Elekid for it, but it can basically always force a Sleep Fodder and potential sack at minimum, and is incredibly punishing to these Pokemon being lured/removed with Stun Spore or something else. What pushes it over the edge for me is Agility Pass with ie. Ariados, leaving reliable counterplay to it as mainly stuff like Tangela, which can always survive a +6 Frustration happily enough, and Lovely Kiss just makes this a lot easier to pull off than it should really be for a likely game winning combo.



Venomoth is a crazy versatile mon with great support options and honestly a pretty big threat itself. Double Powder sets put a lot of pressure on the opposing team and are really nasty to switch into making it a really scary offensive support option, Screech + Sludge Bomb lets Venomoth be a really dangerous offensive thraet of itself, especially with Spikes up, and stops mons like Curse Furret abusing it, while having stuff like Psychic and Giga Drain as coverage options to easily pressure phys walls. ProTox sets are also really neat and can put a lot of pressure on opposing teams. The great speed + decent bulk and typing combined with all of these options really makes it a great fit on teams and kind of unpredictable to play against really.



Definitely one of the top Pokemon in the tier. The fantastic Speed stat leaves it as one of the absolute fastest Pokemon in the tier, noteably revenging Poliwhirl, this combined withits great coverage + potential utility options like Thief and ProTox + Miracle Berry makes it a fantastic addition to nearly all teams, and typically forces multiple checks onto a single team since (non-Sunflora) Grass-types don't tend to be very reliable due to low Synthesis PP and being nearly 2HKO'd by Ice Punch. Definitely has 4mss to a degree, since it preferably wants all of like Thunderbolt + Ice Punch + Psychic + Thief + Cross Chop + Pursuit, but the versatility can be dangerous and stuff like Toxic + Miracle Berry can easily cripple something like Clefairy/Tangela that thinks it can Paralyse you without actual cost.

Seen some use of Thunder on this mon, but I think its not really an affordable option in the tier atm, you really can't afford to miss against targets like Poliwhirl or Seadra.



This thing is an absolute monster in terms of special bulk, not even getting 2hkoed by hp electric by stuff like Quilava. Honestly as a mon in this tier rn its a total double edged sword, while it checks loads of stuff and is really difficult to break through, while having a lot of offensive presence itself due to decent SpA and nice coverage, it ends up being complete fodder to Poliwhirl if it has to Rest and is vulnerable to a lot of top mons at the same time like Elekid, Gastly, Abra, and HP Electric Seadra, which can 2HKO it and easily set up Agility / Rain Dance on it too.

I still rate this mon pretty highly though as one of the best checks to Fire-types and Grass-types as well as some annoying stuff like Substitute + SD Cubone, while not being at all passive due to its decent offensive presence hitting most of its checks p hard on switch in, making it able to outlast them pretty decently with its colossal bulk + spikes immunity



Gonna just group these 4 up as the Fire-Types. They end up performing slightly differently, but i'll talk about all of them here. Quilava (and Charmeleon since its basically the same thing but I've been defaulting to using Quilava so will just talk about that) is a really nice offensive threat in the tier, the decent speed stat + good spa and Fire + Electric coverage is pretty solid offensively, and it can definitely threaten a lot of solid mons like Venomoth and the Grass types. Sunny Day in particular is a nice combination on this, neutering potential Water-type switch ins like Seadra/Mantine and making it a pretty fierce wallbreaker in conjunction with its ability to nearly 2HKO mantine with HP electric. I've been particularly fond of using this in the lead position since it has a nice matchup versus some leads like Delibird / Venomoth and can pretty easily force out a lead Elekid that doesn't want to take a raw Fire Blast turn 1, (I run sleep talk 4th on quilava incase of Greed Powders in situations like this since its movepool is kind of shallow anyway), and can pretty easily force a raw HP electric onto a water type early on for teammates.

Ponyta is something i've seen other people using a bit, its access to Hypnosis definitely gives it a niche over Quilava, as well as its better speed stat, for me personally i'm not as fond of it due to how much weaker it is, struggling to get anywhere near as much damage on Mantine. Hypnosis is definitely a nice addition to limit the switch-ins it has though, and makes it pretty threatening in the lead position for the same reason when forcing those immediate switches, but the massive inaccuracy is honestly super painful.

Macargo definitely performs a completely different role, but the part Rock-typing and fantastic bulk makes it an amazing check to Pokemon like non-Surf Furret and Venomoth and opposing Fire-types. Rest talk sets are definitely my favourite and end up being particularly hard to break through, while being a much more reliable switch in to Grass-types like Ivysaur without being as easily worn down and even letting it pretty decently check an Elekid.



Grouping these together as the Grass-types too. This is definitely another case of most teams really wanting one of these, checking Elekid + waters in one slot is super useful, while every single one of them provides either extra utility or a neat win con at the same time.

Ivysaur is definitely my favourite of the 4, the extra Fighting-resistence it has is fantastic, although the Psychic-weakness makes it a little more vulnerable to Elekid and way more vulnerable to like Abra. Curse sets are amazing to further check the Fightings and make stuff like Murkrow unable to properly check you, but Swords Dance sets are super neat too, and really cool with Agility Pass support. Bayleef honestly acts much the same but without the Psychic-weakness, I tend to prefer SD on Bayleef to put a lot more immediate threat on Elekid, and Curse on Ivysaur, helping make up for its meh defense, in general.

Tangela is definitely a fantastic glue mon with its incredible phys def + fantastic utility options like Stun Spore and Thief. Being one of the few mons able to happily eat a +6 Poliwhirl hit and OHKO it back after BD is really useful especially for more defensive teams especially. Also seen some SD + Sleep Powder sets which can be really dangerous if they catch you unexpected and catch stuff like Quilava / Venomoth trying to switch into you.

Sunflora is cool on paper with Growth sets and checking Elekid much better with its special bulk, but I personally find these sets to just not really achieve much with the poor phys def and mons like Venomoth / Murkrow being everywhere. Not having the option of running stuff like Stun Spore is also unfortunate.



Abra is probably one of the single most threatening Pokemon in the tier, incredible SpA + unresisted coverage + solid speed leaves it able to threaten so much of the tier, and very difficult to switch into, especially with options like Substitute or Thunder Wave punishing hard switch ins to Murkrow. This mon mainly feels balanced by the horrible defenses leaving it struggling to switch into much and the massive prevalence of Murkrow which can easily revenge kill it, but it definitely makes itself known in any match.



This mon is just an insanely cool option on really bulky teams, 32 PP Recover + room to fit Sandstorm makes it have incredibly longevity and gives it the ability to super easily pressure switch ins with Spikes + Sandstorm + potential Poison, while its one of the single best checks to Furret we have. Its typing can be a bit of a double edged sword with stuff like Elekid / Hitmonchan etc, but a lot of its offensive checks are just super vulnerable to Sandstorm and Toxic, and it makes some defensive teams like this https://pokepast.es/c80cf5f657df8d8f super fun to play.



My personal VR, (stuff I've left off has a good chance of just me not having really seen / used it, or is practically identical eg. Quilava vs Charmeleon). Only going down to B- on this for now.

S Rank

(1) Furret
(2) Seadra
(3) Elekid
(4) Poliwhirl

A+ Rank

(5) Venomoth
(6) Murkrow
(7) Abra
(8) Delibird
(8) Tangela

A Rank

(10) Hitmonchan
(11) Ivysaur
(12) Gastly
(13) Mantine

A- Rank [Stopped ordering stuff at this point]

Quilava
Ponyta
Corsola
Hitmontop
Cubone
Bayleef
Machoke

B+ Rank

Onix
Clefairy
Magcargo
Golbat
Staryu
Sunflora

B Rank

Nidorina
Ariados
Wobbuffet
Voltorb
Geodude


B- Rank

Noctowl
Slowpoke
Drowzee
Grimer
Beedrill
Snubbull

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

Here’s a few of the teams I’ve been using on ladder and in friendly games quite a bit(Click on the sprites for the Paste!)

SUNNY DAY SPAM

A fairly basic Sunny Day team. Aipom is a reliable Sun setter who can safely Baton Pass into a frailer teamate such as Magby. Clefairy and Corsola provide some much needed defensive backbones to the team with their ability to switch into Pokemon. Clefairy in particular is able to spread paralysis rather effortlessly.



DROWZEE BALANCE

This was the first team I built, and it is by far my favourite for its reliability(it’s even one of the samples!). It features the incredible Drowzee, who can endlessly switch into dangerous threats such as Hitmonchan and Elekid, while spreading paralysis for Seadra in particular. Elekid is chosen as the lead for its ability to scare out the common Delibird leads

PARALYSIS SPAM

Machoke has pretty terrible speed, so I decided to build a team around remedying that issue. Poliwhirl also appreciates a Elekid being paralysed, and Staryu is able to lure in Elekid and cripple it with Thunder Wave. This was also the first team I built with Venomoth which made me realise who incredible it is


BATON PASS

A standard Baton Pass team. Baton Pass seems to be a pretty controversial topic in GSC PU at the moment, some saying it’s broken, some saying no. Personally, I don’t think Baton Pass is broken, but I definitely wouldn’t be sad seeing it go

 

[ThrashyRambo]

Here's a list I've been running for a bit with good success. Drowsee is a problem, so you could swap HP Rock on Hitmonchan for HP Bug, which is a 90% 2KHO I believe. I've been loving Voltorb lead, since it's the fastest Thunder Wave in the tier, and the ability to outspeed everything and boom is very nice.

Spoiler

Voltorb @ Miracle Berry
Ability: none
IVs: 26 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Explosion
- Thunder Wave

Furret @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Curse
- Double-Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Abra @ Leftovers
Ability: none
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Thunder Punch
- Substitute

Hitmonchan (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 22 HP / 26 Atk / 24 Def
- Mach Punch
- Curse
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- High Jump Kick

Elekid @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 26 Def
- Cross Chop
- Thunder
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

Venomoth @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Psychic
- Whirlwind

 

[toaster04]

I wanted to share a team I've built while learning the GSC PU tier and I actually enjoyed it. I was willing to get a game so I got a chance to playtest it.

Dual Flying Wobbuffet Balance Semi Stall you name it

The team uses a defensive core of Mantine, Tangela and Wobbuffet. I could have chosen better options for the 3rd pokemon to compliment my core, but it actually compliments this team greatly. Wobbuffet has access to a very barren movepool consisting of Counter, Mirror Coat, Destiny Bond, Mimic and Safeguard. However, it does a great job of supporting it's teammates. It has great HP, allowing it to seal a patchwork on its physical and special bulk, able to revenge kill and clean 1v1s up and absorb a hit or two. safeguard allows it to protect its teammates from dangerous status afflictions like paralysis, sleep and freeze which are very popular in the current status of the tier. The defensive core is partnered with 3 offensive pokemon and complimented with Spikes. Wobbuffet has a few little problems with Murkrow when Delibird, Furret and Elekid compliment my defensive synergy to help keep pressure as a whole.

Lastly, I feel like Wobbuffet doesn't have the most tier-defining niche, but I thought this was fun to build and it can somewhat perform an atleast decent job on serious teams.

wabba

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

Here is an update what my current impressions of the meta now that we are close to a month into it and after playing on ladder/the Spotlight Tournament




Furret is the closet thing to broken of anything in the tier in my opinion. It’s fast, very strong, and Curse sets are incredibly tough to beat without a Normal resist. I would definitely rank it as the #1 mon in the tier


Venomoth is one of the best Pokemon in the tier. It’s brings incredible utility to its team with double powders and is one of the best leads while also countering most Hitmonchan and Hitmontop


Teams seem to be very much anti-Mantine, with Hidden Power Electric on Pokemon like Seadra, which has diminished Mantine’s prominence from when the meta first started, although it still has potential to be an incredibly dangerous threat


Teams are also much more prepared for Baton Pass, with Haze being common on Pokemon such as Murkrow, Seadra, and even Gastly.


Elekid is still an excellent Pokemon, but I don’t think it’s as good as it was when the meta first started with the prominence of Drowzee and Rhyhorn


Curse RestTalk Hitmontop is a monster without a Fighting resist on the opposing team. Its especially deadly with Murkrow support


Gastly is struggling quite a bit thanks to the sheer popularity of Murkrow, who can easily trap it and switch in on a Psychic aimed at something like Venomoth


In a similar vain to Moltres in OU, Charmeleon can run Fire Blast, Sunny Day, Rest, and Sleep Talk and be quite a menace. I like to run Clefairy alongside it for the extra Moonlight recovery


Murkrow seems to be everywhere at the moment and it’s not hard to see why with its incredible mixed attacking potential and Haze. It also crucially outspeeds the several base 90s in the tier

 

[File 13]

(Click the sprites for the Paste!)

This is a team that I made with the intention of utilizing Murkrow's ability to bait in Flying-resistant and Normal-resistant threats (for Furret's convenience), such as Rhyhorn, Corsola, etc. and heavily damaging them, or in some cases outright OHKOing them, with Hidden Power Grass. (calcs below)

I first considered HP Water on Murkrow to deal with Magcargo since Furret has Curse over Surf, but being able to threaten the Rocks/Grounds and deal 48.4 - 57.2% to the villainous HP Electric Seadra can be quite beneficial for taking role pressure off Voltorb. Surf Furret could reasonably be used on this team, but it would then struggle to break fatter builds by itself. It would warrant a solution like running Curse on Hitmonchan to be capable of breaking opposing boosting threats, such as Curse Clefairy. For example, if Clefairy gets to +2 before you get Hitmonchan in, High Jump Kick will be a 3HKO, while Hitmonchan is cleanly 2HKO'd (even if he had Leftovers!) by Clefairy's +2 Return.

Hidden Power Rock is used on Hitmonchan to deal meaningful damage to things that resist Fighting, 3HKOing threats like Mantine and Venomoth, which Hitmonchan is unable to do with any other move. I gave Hitmonchan a Miracle Berry, as it provides him with the option to stay in versus status inflictors and dish out damage if necessary.

Damage Calculations

Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Rhyhorn: 350-412 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 79.5% chance to OHKO
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Corsola: 204-240 (65.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Onix: 289-340 (105.8 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Geodude: 350-412 (123.6 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Larvitar: 279-328 (92 - 108.2%) -- 51.3% chance to OHKO
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Omanyte: 262-308 (95.9 - 112.8%) -- 74.4% chance to OHKO
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Kabuto: 289-340 (109.8 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Cubone: 139-164 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 50.2% chance to 2HKO
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Diglett: 144-170 (64.5 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Staryu: 131-154 (49.8 - 58.5%) -- 70.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Seadra: 144-170 (48.4 - 57.2%) -- 47.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Murkrow Hidden Power Grass vs. Poliwhirl: 139-164 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Feel free to swap out moves/team members to suit your personal taste.

Enjoy!

 

[BionicImpala943]

Here’s a few of the teams I’ve been using on ladder and in friendly games quite a bit(Click on the sprites for the Paste!)


View attachment 280811View attachment 280812View attachment 280813View attachment 280814View attachment 280817View attachment 280818
SUNNY DAY SPAM

A fairly basic Sunny Day team. Aipom is a reliable Sun setter who can safely Baton Pass into a frailer teamate such as Magby. Clefairy and Corsola provide some much needed defensive backbones to the team with their ability to switch into Pokemon. Clefairy in particular is able to spread paralysis rather effortlessly.


View attachment 280822View attachment 280823View attachment 280824View attachment 280825View attachment 280826View attachment 280827
DROWZEE BALANCE

This was the first team I built, and it is by far my favourite for its reliability(it’s even one of the samples!). It features the incredible Drowzee, who can endlessly switch into dangerous threats such as Hitmonchan and Elekid, while spreading paralysis for Seadra in particular. Elekid is chosen as the lead for its ability to scare out the common Delibird leads


View attachment 280828View attachment 280829View attachment 280830View attachment 280831View attachment 280832View attachment 280833
PARALYSIS SPAM

Machoke has pretty terrible speed, so I decided to build a team around remedying that issue. Poliwhirl also appreciates a Elekid being paralysed, and Staryu is able to lure in Elekid and cripple it with Thunder Wave. This was also the first team I built with Venomoth which made me realise who incredible it is


BATON PASS
View attachment 280846View attachment 280847View attachment 280848View attachment 280849View attachment 280850View attachment 280851
A standard Baton Pass team. Baton Pass seems to be a pretty controversial topic in GSC PU at the moment, some saying it’s broken, some saying no. Personally, I don’t think Baton Pass is broken, but I definitely wouldn’t be sad seeing it go

I think I'm going to use one of these teams so if you see me using it don't think that I can't make teams and use others I just like to try every team.

 

[File 13]

Twisted Spoon Abra: An Option for Spikes Offense

With an outstanding base Special Attack of 105, Abra has made itself known as an extremely powerful Special Attacker in GSC PU, and it is no secret that it functions significantly better with Spikes support. Twisted Spoon is an item that allows Abra to threaten a plethora of Pokémon in the meta more effectively with Psychic by increasing its power by 10%. This option broadens Abra's moveset horizons slightly, as a majority of its foes will most easily drop to either its 1.1x-boosted Psychic, or to one of its exceptional coverage moves: Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, or Fire Punch. Thunder Punch can be useful to hit Murkrow (on the switch) and bulky Water-types, like Mantine, in one slot, but Ice Punch/Fire Punch should not be overlooked, as they can hit hefty targets that generally take less damage from Psychic, like Parasect. With a Twisted Spoon-buffed Psychic and one of the Punch moves, Abra can use more of its tools of trickery and subterfuge, such as Substitute, Thunder Wave, Encore, Light Screen, Reflect, Barrier, or Toxic.

To mathematically illustrate the merit of Twisted Spoon Abra, I have compiled damage calculations versus almost every single Pokémon that Abra will encounter in the tier, in alphabetical order, with the exception of: things that are 2HKO'd anyway by Fire Punch, but are never OHKO'd by Psychic, things that are OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by Psychic, regardless of Abra's item selection, and things that objectively wall/counter Abra.

Damage Calculations

Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Aipom: 158-186 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Ariados: 302-356 (88 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Beedrill: 256-302 (80.7 - 95.2%) -- 53.8% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Charmeleon: 145-171 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Clefairy: 145-171 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- 29.4% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Corsola: 122-144 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Croconaw: 146-172 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 70.1% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Diglett: 174-205 (78 - 91.9%) -- 30.8% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Eevee: 145-171 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 99.3% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Elekid: 158-186 (53.9 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Flaaffy: 151-178 (44 - 51.8%) -- 72.4% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Furret: 158-186 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- 30.6% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Grimer: 333-392 (91.7 - 107.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Growlithe: 166-196 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Ivysaur: 256-302 (79.2 - 93.4%) -- 43.6% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Jigglypuff: 222-261 (51.2 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Krabby: 222-261 (84.4 - 99.2%) -- 76.9% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Larvitar: 166-196 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Machoke: 302-356 (83.1 - 98%) -- 71.8% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Magby: 158-186 (53.9 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Magcargo: 128-151 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- 30.9% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Nidorina: 316-372 (92.1 - 108.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Nidorino: 316-372 (97.2 - 114.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Omanyte: 158-186 (57.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Phanpy: 187-220 (48.8 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Pidgeotto: 166-196 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Poliwhirl: 166-196 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Ponyta: 145-171 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Quilava: 145-171 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Rhyhorn: 210-247 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Seadra: 174-205 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Seaking: 128-151 (36.8 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Seel: 138-163 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- 16.1% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Snubbull: 187-220 (57.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Teddiursa: 166-196 (51.3 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Tentacool: 221-260 (78 - 91.8%) -- 30.8% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Togetic: 107-126 (34.1 - 40.2%) -- 43.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Venomoth: 265-312 (77.2 - 90.9%) -- 23.1% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Wartortle: 128-151 (39.8 - 47%) -- 0.2% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Twisted Spoon Abra Psychic vs. Weepinbell: 348-410 (104.5 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Enjoy!

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

I’m going to start a Viability Rankings on here. Post anything if you want to nominate anything to drop or rise



GSC PU VR

S Rank
(These Pokemon define the metagame, and fit on all sorts of teams with little flaws)

01: (Furret is the face of PU. It’s speed is excellent, it’s Double Edge hits incredibly hard, and its quite diverse with its great coverage. It fits on almost every single time, and can easily turn the tide of games with how strong it is )
02: (Venomoth has immense defensive and offensive utility in countering Hitmonchan and is incredibly splashable and versatile. It’s one of the best leads in the metagame as well )
03: (Seadra is one of the hardest hitters in the tier, being nigh impossible to wall without a Drowzee. It also can shut down Baton Pass with Haze)
04: (May be controversial, but Murkrow is clearly S Rank imo. Having Haze and being faster then Poliwhirl and the various other base 90s while being a dangerous mixed attacker in its own right with Pursuit make it one of the top Pokemon)
05: (Kid is an excellent offensive threat in its own right, but it also is an important Pokemon since it has the role of revenge killing Poliwhirl and Thief)

A Rank
(These Pokemon are not as splashable as the S Ranks and have more flaws, but they remain important metagame threats)

A+ Rank
06: (Hitmonchan is incredibly splashable. Having a Rapid Spinner that can hit very hard while checking Seadra and Elekid is a huge niche)
07: (Drowzee is one of the best defensive Pokemon, being among the few Pokemon to check Seadra while also dominating Venomoth, Hitmonchan, Hitmontop, and Elekid
08: (Tangela is another amazing defensive Pokemon. While it’s low SpDef can really bite at teams, it’s probably the best physical wall in the tier, and can setup reliably with Growth or Swords Dance)
09: (Abra is an incredibly powerful offensive threat, with Psychic barely scarcely resisted and it having many good supporting moves such as Encore or Thunder Wave. Shoutouts for File 13 for the Twisted Spoon calcs)
10: (The meta has adapted to Poliwhirl. Murkrow and Elekid are everywhere, and virtually every team has a base 90 speed mon, meaning it has to rely on speed ties to sweep. I find it’s only really valuable in the lategame
11: (Aipom is the face of one of the most viable play styles in the tier, Baton Pass. It’s also surprisingly bulky, which lets it reliably pass Agility)

A Rank
12: (Golbat is very annoying to play against with the combination of Toxic, Protect, and Haze. It’s a mainstay on defensive teams as a result, although it can let Abra in for free)
13: (Omanyte is the hardest Furret counter in the tier. It also has solid offensive capabilities and Thief for walls such as Drowzee)
14: (Seaking can be a hugely dangerous threat at times. SD Return RestTalk sets have been seeing usage lately and they seem to be doing well)
15: (Top tends to prefer to sweep with Curse. It has serious issues with how common Venomoth and Abra are though. It can definitely snowball and potentially sweep with the right support though)
16: (The absolute hardest counter to Venomoth, while also checking Murkrow really well. It has a ton of common weaknesses, however, and lets in Seadra for free)
17: (Cubone is the best speed recipient in the tier. If it manages to get +2 Attack and +2 Speed, the game is likely over. The prominence of Haze Seadra hurts it though)
18 (Mantine is an incredible special wall with Haze. It has rather poor physical bulk, however, and a nasty 4x weakness to Electric)
19: Noctowl takes a good few Curse boosts to start doing serious damage, and faces competition from Furret. It’s huge special bulk and access to moves such as Nightmare and Hypnosis give it a niche though
20: (Voltorb is the best lead in the current metagame with its variety of support moves and its unmatched speed. It also checks the newly popular Miracle Berry Murkrow leads nicely)
21: (Clef is a threatening sweeper with Curse, Moonlight, and Thunder Wave. It struggles with how prominent Haze is as a move, and is very weak until it gets quite a few Curse boosts)
22: (Rhyhorn is the best Rock-type in tier with its solid offensive and defensive potential. It’s a great counter to mono Curse RestTalk Furret with Roar, and can Roar out Baton Pass users)
23: (Machoke has solid physical bulk, and Light Screen, a hugely useful move for its teamates. It’s much better against Poison and Flying types as well, with crucial coverage in Rock Slide and Earthquake)
24: (Flaaffy is the best counter to Elekid available in the tier, and is a fierce offensive threat with how few Pokemon resit’s Electric)

A- Rank
25: (Charmeleon is a dangerous Sunny Day attacker with Fire Blast, Sunny Day, Rest, and Sleep Talk. It can easily break through defensive teams lacking a Fire resist
26: (It may seem odd that the premier Spiker of the tier is this low, but Delibird is not a consistent Spiker at all with its frailty. Rapid Spin is also very common, meaning it’s unlikely for it’s Spikes to actually stay throughout the game
27: (Gastly struggles a ton with the prominence of Murkrow. It’s generally inconsistent with its poor speed and horrible bulk. It doesnt scare Furret, the Pokemon it’s meant to check, as well)
28: (As the only legal Heal Bell user in the tier, Snubbull has a place on some defensive teams)
29: (Staryu is a niche Rapid Spin user with Recover. It also has Thunder Wave and good coverage to scare off some threats such as Rhyhorn)
30: (Magby is a fierce threat under sun, and has Thunder Punch to annoy Seadra and Mantine. It’s very difficult to switch in though)
31: (Sunflora is somewhat like a specially defensive version of Tangela. However, it lacks Stun Spore and Sleep Powder, meaning it has to rely on Toxic to do any damage to Fire-types
32: (Ariados faces a bit of competition from Aipom as an Agility Passer. It does have a niche as the only Pokemon to be able to pass a trapping move though
33: (Ponyta is really fast, and has Hypnosis. It’s quite good on some offensive teams since it scare Pokemon such as Tangela out)
34: (Bayleef is an great mixed wall with Reflect, Stun Spore, and Light Screen.Its very passive though, and venerable to status

B Rank
(These Pokemon are generally hard to fit and have quite a number of flaws that keep them from seeing more usage)
35: (Tentacool is a Toxic immune Rapid Spinner. It Is incredibly passive though)
36: (Grimer is a decent Curse sweeper with Explosion and decent special defense)
37: (Slowpoke is really pressured by Murkrow and has very poor Special Defense. It does completely counter Curse Hitmontop, however.
38: (Geodude is a niche Rapid Spin user with Explosion and STAB Earthquake for Gastly)
39: (Eevee is the only Pokemon capable of Baton Passing Growth, a potentially lethal scenario is it passing to a Seadra or Abra)
40: (Wobb requires Spikes and Toxic support, but it can be incredibly tough to take down, as it is the absolute bulkiest Pokemon in the tier)
41: (Parasect faces a lot of common from Tangela, although Parasect is much better off against Seadra due to its better SpDef)
42: (Faces competition from Omanyte, but Corsola does have Recover and a niche on Sand teams, which seem to be decent)
43: (Beedrill is a good Double Dancer with Swords Dance and Agility, that can clean up some games. It’s generally quite inconsistent though)
44: (Doduo is extremely frail, but it can be a dangerous late game cleaner with a unique Endure, Flail, Agility set)
45: (A niche Grass-type with Encore and Stun Spore)
46: (Wartortle faces a lot of competition from Tentacool, although it doesn’t have better Defense for switching into Rhyhorn)

C Rank
(These Pokemon are very rarely worth using and have difficult flaws to overcome)
47: (Weep is a usable Grass-type sweeper if passed speed)
48: (Roar is nice, but Haze is much more valuable then Roar and Whirlwind due to the lack of Spikes. Croc is also outclassed by other defensive Waters such as Mantine)
49: (Nidorina is a weak Poison-type that has poor bulk and a weakness to Psychic. It might be able to do something with Thief and Moonlight)
50: (Despite being fast, Diglett is very weak and OHKOd by almost everything)
51: (Dratini resists Water and Fire and has Thunder Wave and dual screens. It’s very weak and frail though)
52: (Shellder has almost no Special Defense, but it has Explosion and usable physical bulk)
53: (Natu is not like his big brother in NU, it’s almost entirely outclassed by Abra. At least it can Drill Peck and Haze)
54: (To the guy running SunnyBeam Togetic on ladder, please show me your ways)

D Rank
(These Pokemon are just bad all around, and are virtually never worth using)
55: (A semi good check to a Elekid with Belly Drum, but it’s very weak even at +6, is frail, and is incredibly slow)
56: (Krabby has no SpDef, is slow, and very inconsistent)
57: (Niche Ancient Power Sweeper that’s inconsistent and frail)
58: (Baton Pass user with Light Screen and Barrier. Aipom and Ariados are better though)
59: (Use Geodude instead. At least it has Swords Dance)
60: (Frail Fighting-type with Meditate with a super awkward speed tier)
61: (lol)

Other Pokemon that might be viable / Untested Rank
Growlithe
Phanpy
Smoochum
Rattata
Teddiursa
Psyduck
Swinub
Larvitar
Ditto

 

[File 13]

(Click the sprites for the Paste!)

This is a team that I made with the intention of using Mint Berry Hitmontop as a bulky Rapid Spinner that can boost with Curse and sweep with High Jump Kick if the opportunity presents itself, especially late-game. He can also fully heal with Rest and awaken instantly with Mint Berry, retaining the freedom to select his next move without relying on the occasionally costly Sleep Talk.

Miracle Berry Voltorb is the lead of choice. With a base Speed of 100, it is the fastest Pokémon in the tier. It also matches up well versus most other leads. Thunder guarantees an OHKO against HP Flying Delibird, has an 87.2% chance of OHKOing non-HP Flying Delibird, and has a 51.3% chance of OHKOing HP Dark Murkrow. With Miracle Berry's ability to heal status ailments, Thunder + Explosion can be used to remove Venomoth without fear of Sleep Powder or Stun Spore. Hidden Power Ice is a coverage move that can be used to hit things that are either immune or resistant to Electric, such as Ground-types and Grass-types, respectively. Thunder Wave is used to harass non-Ground types with paralysis. It should be noted that Voltorb can replace Hidden Power Ice and/or Thunder Wave with Reflect and/or Light Screen to enhance the team's longevity.

Removal of Spikes is necessary, as this allows Parasect to come in at full health after a teammate faints, survive a Fire Punch from Abra, then OHKO Abra with Hidden Power Bug. This can give Murkrow some breathing room in case the opposing team has another threat that demands its attention. Parasect's unique Bug/Grass typing allows it to dispatch or heavily damage foes that can prove troublesome to Hitmontop or Furret, such as Drowzee, Corsola, Omanyte, and Seadra. Synthesis is a fairly reliable self-healing option for Parasect, outside of Rain or the uncommon Sandstorm, which reduce the healing effect of Synthesis. Stun Spore can be used in place of Synthesis if Voltorb lacks Thunder Wave.

Giving Murkrow Black Glasses increases the power of its Dark-type moves by 10%. This guarantees that Hidden Power Dark OHKOs Gastly and 2HKOs Slowpoke through Leftovers. Black Glasses also strengthen Murkrow's Pursuit, more effectively trapping its prey. Haze is used to neutralize opposing boosting threats, like Poliwhirl.

Omanyte is the team's primary answer to Furret, resisting its dangerous STAB Double-Edge and taking little damage from Surf variants. Omanyte appreciates Hidden Power Electric, which hits targets like Seadra and Mantine super-effectively.

Surf Furret is used to improve the team's matchup versus bulky Rock-types/Ground-types, like Magcargo and Rhyhorn, which can easily withstand Double-Edge. Rest + Sleep Talk allows Furret to absorb status for the team while maintaining offensive pressure.

Damage Calculations

Abra Fire Punch vs. Parasect: 262-308 (81.1 - 95.3%) -- 53.8% chance to OHKO after Spikes
Abra Fire Punch vs. Parasect: 262-308 (81.1 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Parasect Hidden Power Bug vs. Abra: 336-396 (132.8 - 156.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Parasect Giga Drain vs. Corsola: 214-252 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Black Glasses Murkrow Hidden Power Dark vs. Drowzee: 163-192 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 82.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Parasect Hidden Power Bug vs. Drowzee: 229-270 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Black Glasses Murkrow Hidden Power Dark vs. Gastly: 265-312 (100.7 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Omanyte Hidden Power Electric vs. Mantine: 153-180 (45.9 - 54%) -- 3.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Parasect Giga Drain vs. Omanyte: 275-324 (100.7 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Parasect Giga Drain vs. Seadra: 153-180 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- 52.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Omanyte Hidden Power Electric vs. Seadra: 149-176 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Black Glasses Murkrow Hidden Power Dark vs. Slowpoke: 251-296 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Feel free to swap out moves/team members to suit your personal taste.

Enjoy!

 

[Siatam]

As this tier wraps up it's inaugural ladder and spotlight tour, I thought I'd share some of my thoughts on the meta and make a few nominations to Reece's VR.

Magcargo: Top of A- to middle of A
While Magcargo has many weaknesses and lets threatening mons in, it has good matchups against some key top threats and it the best status sponge in the tier. (Rock Slide/Rest/Sleep Talk/Fire STAB is the mainstay set)
Out of the current top mons, Magcargo has:

• Winning MU's against: Non-Surf Furret, Venomoth, Murkrow, Tangela, and Golbat
• Losing MU's against: Surf Furret, Seadra, Hitmonchan, Poliwhirl, and Aipom
• Neutral MU's against: Elekid (Mag not a counter but wins 1v1), Drowzee (Drowzee can win by PP stalling), and Abra (Mag not a counter but wins 1v1)

In the context of a defensive mon, this is quite impressive and is certainty worth a slot on defensive teams that can handle its weaknesses. (Magcargo/Tangela/Drowzee is one hell of a defensive core)

Flaafy: Middle of A- to bottom of A
While Flaffy's defensive utility is limited to answering Elekid, it is a very potent offensive tool against slower teams. Electric and Ice coverage is unresisted in the metagame and Flaaffy has the highest special attack of any mons with Electric STAB.
While against offensive teams Elekid would likely be the superior choice due to its Speed and movepool, Thunder/HP Ice/Rest/Sleep Talk Flaaffy threatens defensive teams with its increased firepower and ability to stick around.
The only real long-term defensive answers to Flaaffy are RestTalk Hitmons as Flaaffy beats Drowzee 1v1, and the tier's Ground types do not take HP Ice well on a switch in. Flaaffy is about as close as you can get to a stallbreaker in this tier.

Wobbuffet: Middle of A- to middle of B
I was initially hopeful that Wobb could find a place on stall teams as a blanket check to set-ups sweepers. Unfortunately it again falls short.
On the plus side very few mons can OHKO Wobb even with max boosts (basically only Furret and SD Parasect) meanwhile Wobb can outspeed these threats to use D-Bond.
The downsides however are much more severe: Murkrow existing, Spikes overall not being great, and that Wobbuffet is purely reactive.

• Wobbuffet can do nothing to Murkrow as Dark types are immune to Mirror Coat. If the opponent brings Murkrow, Wobb takes at least 40% from Pursuit every time it switches in. (You can Counter Murkrow's HP Dark if they misplay though)
• Wobb can psuedo-phaze opponents without Murkrow quite well, but requires Spikes or Toxic spread to be effective, which is a hard thing to accomplish.
• Due to Wobbuffet's unique moveset, it is purely a reactive Mon, it can't do anything (except set up Safeguard) unless your opponent wants it to happen.

So to pull Wobb off you need: your opponent to not bring Murkrow, to bring the sub-par Delibird on your team or dedicate a portion of the team to Toxic spreading, and hope that the opponents doesn't decide to just make a 1 for 1 trade with Wobb.

Due to these flaws I think Wobbuffet cannot fit on teams without significant support, and there are almost always better defensive tools to use.

General metagame thoughts:

I find it really hard to justify Spikes since Delibird is quite bad. As a result I have been foregoing Spikes and Rapid Spin on most of my defensive teams, a sentiment I have seen mirrored in many other players. This development makes stall teams fairly susceptible to Spikes but also makes playing with Delibird basically 5v6 against offense who can often afford to fit Rapid Spin. Gastly gets Pursuit trapped too easily to be a reliable spinblocker, so combined with Delibird's frailty it is very challenging to keep Spikes up.

While full Baton Pass teams are too easily shut down, Aipom + one recipient is very viable if the rest of the team can wear down opposing Tangela, Hazers, and Phazers. It's a little curious that Aipom's usage has been low in the Spotlight Tour.

Drowzee is a very centralizing presence and its dynamic with Miracle Berry Murkrow is interesting and fun to play.

Overall I think the tier is balanced in its current state with a variety of offensive and defensive teams with the room for creativity and unique strategies. There is a lot of room for meta development and I look forward to it.

Some team breakdowns coming soon.

 

[Dw16]

https://pokepast.es/73160b65ec4b1a6c
This Is a Spikes Offensive Team i Built Tell me What You Guys think of it
if Anyone Wants to Make Adjustments You All Can

Let me Describe this team
Delibird lives to Get Up Spikes
Then the Offensive Threats come in Overwhelming
Defensive Cores As Much As Possible

 

[Dw16]

I want to Start My Thoughts on Some of the Most Prominent Pokemon in Gsc Pu and How can You Not start with The Best Pokemon in the tier Furret It has A Entire ToolPack to Succeed Normal Stab Alongside Water/Ghost Coverage and a Choice of Hidden Power

This Alongside Spikes is What Makes Furret a Dominant Force


Next Pokemon I Want to Cover is Delibird the only spiker in the tier and spikes are a key part to the Meta game Stall and Offensive teams alike use spikes to win games this Mon also Carries thief to Take leftovers off Walls this Pokemon can be used on alot of teams

These Two serve as the tiers Prominent Spinners There Bundled Together because they are similar in almost every way besides Hitmontop having better Special Bulk and Hitmonchan having more Physical Bulk

The only Crossroads with these Mons imo is to Run either Hp Bug For Drowzee and Abra or Hp Rock for Venemoth and Mantine in my opinion Pick whichever Hp to help deal with the mon you struggle with,these aspects help two Contribute to The metagame in a Huge Way


I put these Two together because these Guys are the cleaners on a team as some of the biggest Offensive Threats. Poliwhirl threatens to sweep after a Belly drum while Elekid plans to with its wide Movepool Just like Furret they Go Well Alongside Spikes

This is the tiers Prominent defensive Pokemon Alot of pokemon are Nessitating to Hp Rock or Electric to deal with Mantine its a Special Wall and it takes a lot from a Team to take it down it also Carries Haze to get rid of curse boost

Murkrow is one of the Tiers main Hazers also getting rid of Curse boost and is a check to Venemoth ,The grass types ,Gastly and The Hitmon duo this pokemon does alot for this tier checking a lot of threats

Last and Certainly not least is Gastly the tiers only spin blocker it serves as the Biggest Counter to the Hitmon duo Switch in and threatening with sleep,explosion,or psychic this thing has a wide variety of Coverage Moves that help to deal With the Metagame at large

 

[Siatam]

Polistall


This has been my go-to team both on the PU ladder (peaked #1) and in the spotlight tournament. It has solid answers to virtually every threat in the metagame and can consistently wear down the opponent to set up for a Poliwhirl endgame. It relies on status spreading and out-sustaining opponents to either break through with Poliwhirl or chip down opponents with RestTalk Hitmonchan. The dual Fire-Water-Grass and Fighting-Psychic-Dark cores are nifty offensively and defensively.

Hitmonchan is the work-horse of the team and what is largely responsible for softening up opposing teams or outright winning once it’s corresponding checks are removed. Fighting + Rock coverage is unresisted in the tier and is difficult to switch into without relying on predictions. Drowzee is the only true counter to this set, while mons such as Venomoth, Murkrow, Elekid, Tangela, Abra, and Golbat can temporarily slow it down. Hitmonchan also serves at the team’s secondary special wall when Drowzee is in a disadvantageous position. It is the team’s best lead against Delibird, and is a solid offensive lead without any unsalvageable lead match-ups.
*The showdown validator has been updated. It previously claimed that HJK + Body Slam is an illegal move combination when it wasn’t. Since it has been fixed BSlam is superior to HP Rock as every Chan check besides Drowzee hates status. I'm leaving the previous paragraph unedited to preserve the original state of the team and because it is good info.*

The premier special wall in the tier and this team’s catch-all answer to every special threat. The generic RestTalk set is nothing special nor is it hard to play. It can pick up a nifty paralysis on opposing Murkrow to help with a later Poliwhirl sweep.

Tangela is an excellent status spreader, physical wall, and the team’s best answer to baton pass(Aipom). Tangela importantly helps against Surf Furret, Cubone, non-RestTalk Hitmons, Cubone, and about anything that uses Curse. HP Grass is an important tech for extra PP’s and ability to break through Substitute. (Sub Cubone otherwise destroys the team) Tangela is the team’s most important defensive asset so it is important to keep it status free and at high health.

Magcargo is the secondary physical check and status sponge. It is necessary for a few key match-ups: Curse-Rest-Talk Furret, Venomoth, Murkrow, Golbat, and Sunny Day. Since Magcargo dominates its keys match-ups so hard and is otherwise lacking in utility, it should be the first switch in to any status. Hitmonchan and Drowzee can handle being statused but much prefer to have control over their move selection. You can run Fire Blast for guaranteed 3HKO on Furret/Drowzee and 2HKO on Elekid but I prefer Flamethrower for PP and consistency. Body Slam over Rock Slide can be considered if you really want to paralyze Hitmons/Water types on switch in.

Murkrow is hugely useful both offensively and defensively as it can pick off Hitmonchan checks in Drowzee, Abra, and Venomoth while being a back-up answer to Curse users and opposing Poliwhirl. Miracle Berry is useful to have one shot to avoid status in the Drowzee, Abra, Venomoth, and Tangela match-ups while getting off key damage. As in most scenarios a Murkrow w/o Leftovers is more useful than a paralyzed Murkrow w/ Leftovers. Due to Murkrow’s thin defenses and lack of recovery it should be used selectively and conservatively.

Nothing too special about this mon, set up in sweep once all base 90+ speed opponents have been paralyzed and defensive checks weakened to OHKO range. Its defensive utility is limited to checking Rain Dance Seadra with Lovely Kiss or opposing Poliwhirl in an emergency. Poliwhirl should never risk taking status on this team and as such I have found Leftovers to be more useful.

While this team covers the entire metagames very well there are a few threats it needs to be wary of:
RestTalk + Curse Hitmons - This is an unset because of the existence of Venomoth and Golbat, but theoretically 6-0’s this team
Toxic Cubone - Tangela is the only defensive Cubone answer in the tier. Poison on Tangela is a pain to deal with and can make other physical attackers more dangerous
Curse in general - Can easily get out of control if Tangela has already used Sleep Powder, Murkrow has a limit on the number of times it can Haze.
Spikes - No Rapid Spin makes Spikes a damper on this team. Luckily Delibird is largely bad and you are “automatically” 6v5.

Truth be told this team wins 85% of its matches without needing to use Poliwhirl. This could be due to the relative low quality of teams faced on the ladder and the fact that almost every opponent heavily prepares for Poliwhirl. Despite this I prefer Poliwhirl in the sixth slot due to how it can immediately end games once the correct conditions are achieved. However, the other 5 mons form such an excellent defensive core that you can fit just about anything in the sixth slot.
I have also found success with:
RestTalk HP Ghost Hitmontop - used to bully opposing Drowzee to help Murkrow pick it off in order to unleash Hitmonchan
RestTalk Seaking - Similar in practice to Poliwhirl, can make breaking some stalls easier
Delibird - Really helps the stall vs. stall match-up
Venomoth - General high utility
Furret - Splashable on about every team

In my humble super biased opinion, this is a good team and the baseline I use to judge offensive teams in this tier. Spoiler alert: most of them can’t break this team.
Have fun with it.

 

[Siatam]

Seadra + Flaaffy Balance


This was my #2 team on ladder and in tour, sharing a similar defensive back bone to my Polistall team but with some added offensive threats. The team focuses on setting up for a Noctowl endgame though Seadra and Murkrow can also clean up weakened opponents.

Can’t really go wrong with Furret on a PU team. I decided on a Double-Edge Surf set in order to threaten most normal resists and generally spread damage with DE. A Curse or a dedicated lead set (DE/Dpunch/Surf/HP Grass) could be similarly effective but I like to use Furret as a supporting presence to Noctowl, both in the early and late game.

Seadra under rain is an immense offensive threat, while having respectable speed and physical bulk. It fits well on the team by taking advantage of the pivoting ability of Tangela and Flaaffy who can spread status and invite in checks that Seadra takes advantage of. (Hitmonchan, Magcargo, Flying types) Some of the most reliable answers to Seadra are such as Elekid and Abra. As a result the rest of the team seeks to shore up these weaknesses and bring Seadra onto the field often.

Flaaffy is useful as an answer to Elekid, who otherwise dominates the team, and Murkrow. Its offensive presence cannot be ignored either: electric and ice coverage has no resistances in the tier. Flaaffy pressures defensive teams with its powerful Thunders and can weaken specially defensive walls to a point that Seadra becomes hugely threatening.

While Noctowl takes a while to get going, good luck stopping it once it is set up. For that matter, good luck stopping it while it is setting up. STAB Thunder is about the only thing that can 2HKO it, though Curse-ing up alongside it and phazing are valid counter measures. Noctowl has an important role on this team as an end-game cleaner but it contributes valuable defensive utility as a special wall and status sponge. Noctowl has the 3rd best special bulk in the tier and is nicely complemented defensively by Flaaffy.

I’ll come out and say I use Murkrow on 100% of my GSC PU teams. It’s ability to pick off weakened mons, threaten fighting types, and access to Haze are all incredibly useful. Due to Flaaffy and Noctowl being good answers to Drowzee and Tangela I prefer to run Leftovers Murkrow on this build but Miracle Berry is viable as well. With this Murkrow can afford to play a little more offensively on this team than compared to stall.

Along with Murkrow, Tangela is on most of my PU teams. It is a catch all physical check, has instant recovery, and spreads status. Compared to its role on my stall team, Tangela serves less of an outright walling presence and is more of a pivot into the team’s offensive threats after it has slept/para’d an opponent.

While Noctowl might not be seeing much play right now in the PU meta, I believe its special bulk creates a significant niche over Furret as a Curse user. With the correct game plan Noctowl can set-up in the face of the opponent while they have little counter play. With that said, I look forward to future innovation in this tier and hope the people can come up with creative answers to it.

Have fun with the team.

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

With the GSC PU spotlight tournament coming to a close(shoutouts Earthworm for winning), I’d like to share the overall usage stats from the tour to get a better idea as to what is being used

GSC PU Usage Stats

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Elekid             |  100 |  52.63% |  48.00% |
| 2    | Murkrow            |   91 |  47.89% |  50.55% |
| 3    | Furret             |   84 |  44.21% |  54.76% |
| 4    | Delibird           |   73 |  38.42% |  39.73% |
| 5    | Venomoth           |   71 |  37.37% |  57.75% |
| 6    | Tangela            |   60 |  31.58% |  36.67% |
| 7    | Hitmonchan         |   58 |  30.53% |  53.45% |
| 8    | Seadra             |   49 |  25.79% |  53.06% |
| 9    | Drowzee            |   42 |  22.11% |  54.76% |
| 10   | Mantine            |   35 |  18.42% |  40.00% |
| 11   | Poliwhirl          |   33 |  17.37% |  48.48% |
| 12   | Abra               |   32 |  16.84% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Gastly             |   31 |  16.32% |  58.06% |
| 14   | Cubone             |   29 |  15.26% |  34.48% |
| 15   | Onix               |   23 |  12.11% |  43.48% |
| 16   | Sunflora           |   19 |  10.00% |  52.63% |
| 16   | Clefairy           |   19 |  10.00% |  15.79% |
| 18   | Voltorb            |   18 |   9.47% |  44.44% |
| 19   | Flaaffy            |   16 |   8.42% |  62.50% |
| 19   | Hitmontop          |   16 |   8.42% |  56.25% |
| 21   | Magcargo           |   15 |   7.89% |  73.33% |
| 21   | Noctowl            |   15 |   7.89% |  46.67% |
| 21   | Golbat             |   15 |   7.89% |  40.00% |
| 24   | Machoke            |   14 |   7.37% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Aipom              |   12 |   6.32% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Beedrill           |   11 |   5.79% |  18.18% |
| 27   | Ivysaur            |    9 |   4.74% |  33.33% |
| 27   | Corsola            |    9 |   4.74% |  22.22% |
| 29   | Charmeleon         |    8 |   4.21% |  37.50% |
| 30   | Staryu             |    7 |   3.68% |  28.57% |
| 30   | Ariados            |    7 |   3.68% |  14.29% |
| 32   | Larvitar           |    6 |   3.16% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Parasect           |    6 |   3.16% |  50.00% |
| 34   | Eevee              |    5 |   2.63% |  60.00% |
| 34   | Wobbuffet          |    5 |   2.63% |  20.00% |
| 36   | Ponyta             |    4 |   2.11% |  25.00% |
| 36   | Quilava            |    4 |   2.11% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Snubbull           |    3 |   1.58% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Omanyte            |    3 |   1.58% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Grimer             |    3 |   1.58% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Rhyhorn            |    3 |   1.58% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Shellder           |    3 |   1.58% |  33.33% |
| 38   | Krabby             |    3 |   1.58% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Seaking            |    2 |   1.05% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Magby              |    2 |   1.05% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Slowpoke           |    2 |   1.05% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Geodude            |    2 |   1.05% |  50.00% |
| 48   | Weepinbell         |    1 |   0.53% | 100.00% |

Movesets and teamates here!
Lead Stats Here!

It seems that the most used Pokemon are the ones that are used on the sample teams(which will be revamped soon so stay tuned!). The metagame is clearly offensive based. I will also be making some changes to the VR based on these stats.



While Kid is #1 in usage, I still don’t consider it the best Pokemon in the tier. I attribute this to it being on a lot of the samples



These three you really can‘t go wrong with using them on a team, which is shown by the high win rate and usage



Tangela had a lower win rate then I expected. Delibird did rather poorly, I think it’s overall mediocrity is starting to become apparent



Corsola did incredibly poorly, despite its decent usage. Omanyte had lower usage but a 100% win rate.
Onix was used quite a bit, oddly



Magcargo is a great Pokemon in the metagame, with a 73% win rate. I have had great success with this mon



The Baton Pass crew all seemed to perform rather mediocre, although Eevee had a solid winrate

 

[Dw16]

Since the Tour is Over(Congratulations Earthworm on Winning) I Believe I would Like to Share What I believe Are the Top 5 Best Pokemon in Gsc Pu
Now This List Is Subjective off of What I've used And Observed Now Lets Get On to The Rankings

5.Elekid. The Number 1 Pokemon in Usage in My Opinion While Great isn't the Best Pokemon in the tier with Common Ground Types,other Elekid,and Flaffy Around can't stop its Momentum,But its Imo The tiers Best and safer Cleaner Offensively With all the Coverage that Any Player Could Ask For

4.Drowzee&Magcargo
Drowzee is The Tiers Best Special Wall and Only Needs to Worry about Murkrow ,It dishes out Paralyzation easily being able to take a hit and then send it back with Seismic toss
Magcargo Is the Best Counter for Non Surf Furret,A good Check for Grass Types,other Fire Types,Murkrow,and Venemoth, its definitely a Potent Pokemon imo

3.

Venemoth. It Can Paralyze,It can Baton pass,It can Sleep,It can Use Curse+SludgeBomb,With the ability to come in on the Hitmon duo and Grass Types and threaten them is a Awesome Trait to have,This Pokemon is Great On Offensive teams to cause balance and Defensive teams Offensive Pressure

2.Murkrow. To Some this May be too High but I Believe Murkrow is One of the best and Most Important Pokemon in the Meta Game,it Pursuit Traps Gastly and Drowzee,Threateans the Hitomon duo,Venemoth,Machoke,and the Grass Types its a Big Reason Why Offensive Teams Are so deadly it stops the biggest Defensive Walls Like Drowzee from Slowly Crippling the team and is Vital to Any teams success.Its also Splashable on Many Teams

1.Furret. Even After the Tour i Still think Furret Is still the best Pokemon in the tier RestTalk+Curse sets leave any non Normal Resist Trembling While,Surf Furret deals with its Biggest Problem Rock Resists to Me this Pokemon is A Need on Every Offensive team and can Even be Put on Balance and even Defensive teams as a Pokemon Who can Sweep Once the Opposing Team is Crippled.


Thats it For My Rankings of the Top Gsc Pu Pokemon

Updates to this List Will Come Soon

 

[Blui]

1)Venomoth + Seadra


2)Poliwhirl + Drowzee

(Click the sprites for the importable)

These are the two teams that I used throughout the majority of the recently concluded spotlight tournament.

- In my opinion Venomoth is probably the most reliable lead, it has good matchups with the other common leads and can cripple them with status. It also has a decently high speed tier.

- Agreeing with Siatam here, Murkrow was undoubtedly one of my favorites. The dual Dark/Flying coverage is really cool, plus it can also trap weakened foes because of its access to Pursuit. Not to forget that it also bullies all the set-up sweepers such as Poliwhirl with Haze.

- Furret is Furret and does Furret things. In my opinion it is probably a tier staple and is too good to not be used.

- Elekid is really cool too, it outspeeds everything and has good coverage. Although over time I realized that there are plethora of checks to it. Tangela wins against it in a 1v1, Drowzee dominates it and Flaaffy completes blanks it. However, if someone manages to get rid of these checks Elekid can be really nasty in the end-game and cleans up teams with ease.

- I really liked using Seadra too, the combination of Surf and Ice Beam does a lot to almost everything in the tier.

- Although I haven't used it in the teams I posted here, I found Delibird to be a cool Pokemon too. It is a decent lead although it instantly loses to the the common electric leads like Elekid and Voltorb. Miracle Berry and Thief though are really cool, absorbing status and removing the Leftovers from a common defensive Pokemon like Drowzee can prove to be really helpful sometimes. Plus it can do a decent amount of damage with Ice Beam if needed.

 

[DAWNBUSTER]

The release of Body Slam Hitmonchan

It was recently discovered that High Jump Kick and Body Slam were actually not illegal on Hitmochan. This teambuilder bug was fixed and now these two moves are legal. This is likely to have a big effect on the metagame, Pokemon that can normally switch into Hitmonchan such as Tangela or Venomoth are much less keen to switch in. High Jump Kick, Body Slam, Rest, and Sleep Talk is an incredible special tank that can hit hard and even spread paralysis. I can likely see Hitmonchan becoming an easy top 5 or even 3 Pokemon now

 

[FNH]

Just a small post on some thoughts. This is a great meta. I had some team ideas for the tour that I never got around to finishing before the tour ended, so I won't post them, because they were kinda bad.

First one was inspired from a friendly with Earthworm. Given how broken Furret is and Omanyte was a great counter to it, I wanted to use HP grass lure + Shellder and Votlorb as boom offense to clear the way for Furret who can just curse smash his way through an opponent. Grass lure was for the rise of Omanyte. Shellder seemed to help for the Macargo's that were rising in popularity as well. I liked the idea, I just didnt have the time to really make the team work as well.

Second idea was an Eevee growth pass + SpA spam. I ran a reflect Eevee with growth hoping to get it to pass to an Abra, Elekid, or Seadra. Either one of those three at +1 are so dangerous, Seadra at +1 is basically GG. Well I think the team needed some more bulk overall, Abra and Elekid are kinda frail. Only got one chance to try this idea out. It worked, but it wasnt a perfect execution and felt shaky at times.

Just some team thoughts.

 

[Dw16]

Now With Hitmonchan Getting Body Slam The Mon Is Now Even Better than Before it creates more Pressure for Offensive Teams its even Hard to Kill My Current set is
RestTalk+HighJumpKick+BodySlam I Tried this set and its Brutal It pokes serious Holes through defensive Pokemon these Mon Definitely Should be Looked Out for in Every Game
I'll definitely Update My Rankings

 

[toaster04]

After a bit of reading in the VR on post #12, I'd like to give my thoughts on a few of the untested/might be viable Pokemon. Recently had some discussions in the RoA room about a couple of them, maybe they could be shifted up/down. I'm going to keep some of them simple

Smoochum is very physically frail and lopsided. While it does hit reasonably hard, it loses to some of the more powerful attackers in the tier and is easily 2HKO'ed. It appreciates having Hitmonchan off the field because it performs poorly against anything higher than base 65s, but it can be tasking. You can retaliate with Psychic, but your Smoochum is likely to be chipped by spikes and die.

I can see potential here, maybe at a C or -B ranking. Great against Sunflora and Venomoth due to it's okay bulk, but has problems with the Rock and Water type kings of the tier (Rhyhorn, Omanyte, etc). HP Grass can be invested to slam the opposing Pokemon it's weak to, and getting rid of these on the field will help it immensely.

This thing sucks lol. Very matchup fishy and frail, the only upside that lets it thrive is it's speed which is the only good thing. I'd suggest putting this into D rank as this has a lot of flaws that'd give even Youngster Joey a headache.