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Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Welcome to the brand-new GSC RU tier! Following in the footsteps of ADV RU, this tier aims to take some of UU's weakest Pokemon, NUBL, and anything NU and below, and give them a chance to shine in a brand-new middle tier! Every Pokemon Tiered in UU or NUBL who is also ranked in B3 or Lower on UU's current viability rankings are eligible to compete here, creating an entirely new experience from any existing gsc tier.
This thread will primarily be used for resources, tiering updates, and on-forum discussion. If you're looking for something more immediate and short-form, please feel free to join our Discord Server!
GSC RU is currently only playable via challenge code, which you can find below:
Special moves: Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Ice, Psychic, Dark, Dragon
This means Hidden Power can be Physical as well as Special.
Steel resists Dark and Ghost.
Basically every good item besides Leftovers does not exist yet. Leftovers and Miracle (Lum) Berry are the only items you will see outside of corner case scenarios.
Grass-types can be affected by powder moves. Electric-types can be paralyzed by Thunder Wave.
Sleep Talk can call Rest, which functions normally. If a Pokemon uses Sleep Talk and calls Rest, their sleep turns will be reset to 0, and they will wake up on 2 like they would with Rest in every other generation, unless Rest is called again.
Poison, Burn, and Leech Seed drain HP after the affected Pokemon attacks, while Leftovers heals at the end of the turn.
If a Pokemon afflicted with Bad Poison (Toxic) switches out, the poison becomes regular Poison upon switching back in.
Explosion and Self-Destruct halve the opponent's defense in damage calculation, giving them a base power of 500 and 400 respectively. If a faster Pokemon uses Explosion and the slower Pokemon survives, the slower Pokemon will not take a turn.
Hidden Power is determined by IVs, meaning certain hidden powers (particularly Grass) come at the cost of a cut into your stats, even though you can max them all out otherwise.
Giga Drain and other hp-draining moves fail on substitute.
If you call Whirlwind or Roar via Sleep Talk while moving first, Roar/Whirlwind will fail.
You can only set one layer of Spikes.
Certain moves have compatibility issues, meaning some sets just won't work despite a Pokemon learning both moves because there's no way to legally put both on the same Pokemon.
Every GSC tier has a different interpretation and application of Baton Pass clause due to the move's distribution, and certain tiers having Pokemon that are much better or worse than they would be in other tiers relative to the power level of said tier. We have elected to keep Baton Pass fully legal at the beginning of the tier, but are keeping a close eye on Speed Pass and Trap Pass at the moment. I'll update this part of the OP if we do ever do something. Only a small handful of fully evolved Pokemon get BP in this generation, most of which were already only niche in NU, and while the higher power level does mean better recipients, it also means Pokemon like Farfetch'd and Ledian have a very hard time actually coming in and setting up as the tier currently stands. This is a developing metagame, though, and action will be taken if deemend necessary.
- TangBat Offense by Heatranator - Wrath Kabu BO by THE_CHUNGLER - Dodrio Standard by Heatranator - Double Water Spikes by Aurist - Pivot Flareon BO by Heatranator :farfetch'd: - Baton Pass by Miyami~~~ - Stantler Offense by Heatranator - Explosion Offense by Miyami~~~ - Thief Omastar double water by Heatranator - triple water by THE_CHUNGLER
Set Compendium (WIP)
Check back on this post for additional resources from time to time as the tier develops more!
After internal disccusion in council and discussions with players in the discord server, we have decided to ban Kadabra after 4 out of 5 members voted to ban it (thanks to THE_CHUNGLER, FastCarVroom!!! and GCGoat for joining us for this vote).
Kadabra is a very powerful Pokemon in the metagame, with a blistering 105 speed stat, Kadabra outspeeds the majority of the metagame, with only Crobat, Dugtrio and Persian outspeeding it (unless you wanna count Sneasel but IDT many people will). None of these are able to immediately threaten it, and have to deal with being 2 shot by Psychic. Only really Persian can attempt to, but has to deal with Hypnosis's shaky 60% accuracy.
So that primarily leaves defensive counterplay as the option, of which there also is little. Bulky waters such as Politoed and Dewgong are probably the best, however they are still incredibly threatened by Psychic or Thunder Punch, with them both barely taking 3 Thunder Punch's. This means with even some Spikes support, both can be at the mercy of Kadabra. Xatu can switch into Psychic, but gets cleanly 2HKO'd by Thunder Punch. After that, there really isn't much that can take on Kadabra apart from itself. Only niche options such as Exeggcute and Houndour can, but those are otherwise poor to bad Pokemon, as while they can check Kadabra and potentially other Pokemon such as Raichu and the waters for the former, and Xatu for the latter, they are otherwise extremelly underwelming.
Another issue with Kadabra is the utility options, as after Psychic, Thunder Punch, and Recover, Kadabra has a free moveslot to experiment with. Thunder Wave can cripple both walls and faster Pokemon, meaning they can be forced to Rest earlier or be unable to outspeed Kadabra, Encore can allow Kadabra to beat Rest-Talk Pokemon that might otherwise somewhat stave it off, allowing it a free attack on a teammate or a completely free switch into a teammate of its own, Counter can beat trying to out offensing it with something such as Double-Edge Arcanine, as despite Kadabra's pitiful physical defense, it still has enough bulk to live most non STAB Double-Edges, or Substitute to take advantage of switches and potentially beat offensive counterplay. Thief and Light Screen are also options to either cripple a wall or beat something such as Houndour it should usually falter against.
Thus, we have decided to ban Kadabra.
We also discussed speed pass and Dodrio.
:gs/farfetch'd:
Saying that Baton Pass can be controversial in tiers it can be used in would be putting it lightly. Most tiers have some sort of restriction on the move, but as of rn it is completely unrestricted in GSC RU. This is because the current speed passers being Ariados, Farfetch'd, and Ledian don't exactly make for the best Pokemon, as while they can find switch-in opportunities, they typically put are limited, especially Farfetch'd. However though, if they do get off an Agility pass, the options to abuse it are powerful, as Pokemon such as Pikachu, Poliwrath/Politoed, Omastar, Kabutops, Victreebel etc are all potentially game ending. There also is Trap pass and Growth pass, though those are a lot more reigned in. Trap pass is exclusive to Ariados, so typically its very easy to see coming and while it is powerful, Ariados can struggle to take attacks from Pokemon such as Arcanine and Raichu. Conversly, Growth Pass is only viable on Flareon, as while you can pass an Agility to it beforehand, it is otherwise a very slow Pokemon that while good, can struggle with the multitude of Water-types in the tier. However, since Baton Pass has shown to rear its ugly head a multitude of times, we will keep a close eye on it.
Dodrio was one of the featured Pokemon in the B3 drops, and so far has established itself as a great Pokemon in the tier. With a fast 100 Speed stat and 110 base Attack, Dodrio certainly is both fast and powerful. This is especially the case with Double-Edge, which can threaten to 2shot even bulky Pokemon such as Arcanine. With access to Thief, it can also cripple walls such as Omastar that might otherwise impede it. However, Dodrio has some issues it runs into. With its Normal/Flying typing, Dodrio can struggle to easily switch in, as even the Ground-types such as Sandslash and Dugtrio can threaten it with Rock Slide. Furthermore, despite its access to Hidden Power Ground and Hidden Power Grass, Dodrio can struggle quite a lot into Rock types such as Kabutops, Omastar, Sudowoodo and Graveler, who all can threaten it for large damage and even something such as Graveler can take a Hidden Power Grass from full. And while its damage is certainly good, it isn't threatening OHKO's against Pokemon such as Raichu that can threaten it out. Dodrio might become problematic as the tier evolves, but for the moment, it is a powerful, but healthy addition to the tier.
And since they are probably top two Pokemon in the tier, I'd like to discuss quickly why we didn't vote on both Raichu and Arcanine.
In the short time the tier has been played, Raichu has established itself as the best Pokemon in the tier, as its great 100 speed stat, STAB Thunder, and bevvy of options such as Surf, Thief, Thunder Wave, Encore, HP Ice make it an incredible Pokemon. While these are all certainly good traits, there are some drawbacks that are to be found. Firstly, Grass types such as Vileplume, Victreebel, and Exeggcute are all able to pretty reliably check it, as they can stomach Thunder while only really being threatened by HP Ice variants, and even still these Raichu variants need a lot to go right to break through them. Secondly, Ground types such as Sandslash, Dugtrio and depending on whether Raichu is running Surf or not, Graveler and Pupitar, can all somewhat check it, as while they can't switch into its coverage options, can force it out with Earthquake. Finally, Raichu is not insanely strong enough or bulky enough to immediately clean games, as Pokemon such as Arcanine, Stantler and Weezing can at worst, trade with it. Overall, Raichu is a powerful, but ultimately healthy addition to the tier.
The other top dog (pun not intended) of the metagame, Arcanine simply can out stat the tier, with amazing bulk, power and even good speed, it has a lot of options in its tool kit. From the standard Rest talk sets, to Curse Sweeping sets, to Roar variants to phaze out answers and rack up Spikes chip, Arcanine can do it all. However, there are clear and defined answers to Arcanine. The main issue with Arcanine is the amount of bulky Rock and Water types in the tier, or for Kabutops and Omastar, being both of those things. While it can tech Hidden Power Grass for these options, this cuts heavily into its DV's and thus is more relegated for a lure option. If it doesn't have HP Grass, these pokemon can hard wall it, as the Rock types completely wall it, only being threatened by HP Ground on Curse variants that have obtained multiple boosts (which most teams will not allow it to get easily) and the Water types can take most of its attacks, really only being threatened by Double-Edge if paired with Spikes, though even these have to get chip damage on them. Combined with the fact that a fair few amount of teams use both Rock and Water types on the same team, and while Arcanine can certainly be a good Pokemon, it does have to work to win a game.
Here is the new challenge code:
/challenge gen2nu @@@ +Arcanine, +Victreebel, +Kabutops, +Vileplume, +Pikachu, +Golduck, +Poliwrath, +Raichu, +Dodrio, +Sandslash, +Politoed, +Omastar, +Crobat
In addition, we have our first VR! We'd like to thank the council for helping us with this by submitting there personal VR's.
I was a big lobbyist for kadabra's ban. It's stats and typing were just way too good for the power level. Unlike in UU where there are many bulky psychics that check kadabra, RU only has psychics like xatu that lose 1v1 to kadabra. It was also one of the fastest mons with access to GSC recover, which made it surprisingly bulky when dealing with the Pokemon that weren't 2hko'd by psychic. Golduck and Riachu would have to restloop while kadabra just recovers to full. To deal with Kadabra, you needed twave or paralysis on pokemon that weren't weak to psychic, which was pretty hard to come by. Raichu runs thunder but good luck hitting and paralyze kadabra while its forcing you ro restloop and staying at full HP. Many different sets for kadabra were used such as sub recover, twave, and encore.
Otherwise, I've been having a lot of fun playing this tier, there's a good balance of defensive resttalkers that aren't too passive (Arcanine and Raichu), and offensive mons that try to target those walls (Kabutops and Sandslash really thrive in this lower power level). Spikes is a bit awkward because Pineco is so badly outstatted, but they're definitely a strong style just due to being gsc spikes.
Was one of the council members to vote ban on Kadabra as well. Similar to what Chungler and Heatranator have articulated above, the main issues surrounding Kadabra involved it's powerful special attack stat, speed tier, and wide range of dangerous support moves. If there were a more consistent psychic resist in the tier maybe there could be some argument for their to be more time taken on considering Kadabra's viability, but considering the best options are Houndour and Magnemite, I don't really see another conclusion to come to at the moment.
Generally speaking, Kadabra has been running psychic, t-punch, recover, filler as its ideal moveset. The 4th move slot has a wide variety of options such as counter, t-wave, light screen, encore, thief, nightmare, etc. pretty much giving it the ability to handle whatever checks it needs to for a given matchup. A single psychic drop on the wrong turn can be extremely devastating, sometimes even losing you the entire game in the right conditions. Counter can ruin arcanine, xatu, and others on a dime as it can land a suprise ko out of nowhere on what would be somewhat solid answers. T-wave can cripple the one would be psychic immunity in the tier in Houndour. Encore can really abuse rest and setup mons. Ultimately kadabra has the tools to abuse every matchup in the tier with little counter play outside of using one yourself and fishing for drops or engaging in t-wave wars. I think it is for these reasons that me and others thought that a quick ban was necessary if there is to be a potential kickoff tour in the near future.
There are other aspects of the tier that we're trying to keep a close eye on. Dodrio, and speed pass being the main other two points of contention. It seems that everyone so far has been in most agreement that although Dodrio is strong there are answers to it. Non Rest sets are pretty susceptible to status such as t-wave, and two atk rest talk sets generally have to sacrifice coverage meaning that there are relatively consistent defensive answers depending on the coverage it has. given that Raichu also has the highest usage rate in the tier as well as Sandslash and many other mons choosing to run rock coverage it can also be difficult for Dodrio to hit the field at times and find an opportune moment to sweep. Speed Pass being limited to mons Such as Ariados and ledian generally means that it takes a lot of positioning in order to pull off a successful agill pass to a teammate. The tier as of now is rather offensive, so a lot of teams are stacking threats such as Arcanine, Raichu, offensive waters, and sleep mons, all of which make achieving an agility pass rather difficult. It's definitely still being monitored by us but was not something we felt needed immediate action.
Overall I think I can speak for most people both on council and those who have been actively engaging and playing the tier that outside of Kadabra, the tier has felt both enjoyable to play and balanced overall as of now. There are consistent top tier threats that help add centralization without feeling overbearing, there is a healthy arrangement of playstyles both offensive and defensive that help the tier feel both fun and rewarding of skill. If anyone has any questions feel free to drop by the discord, hangout ask questions and play a few games because the tier is definitely worth it!
Winners:
The most straightforward winner in the tier. With Kadabra gone, Xatu is now the only remaining fully-evolved psychic in the tier who learns more than four moves. You do miss the extra speed a lot (ties with Arcanine, underspeeds Dodrio and Raichu), but psychic is still an extremely good stab in the tier due to all our psychic resists besides itself just being kind of... bad. Compared to Kad, it fears status less (rest talk stabs or psychic/night shade are both common, although traditional NU thief sets are probably just as good), which is great for switching into something like a plume, but the electric weakness is really nasty and shuts off a fair amount of potential cores with water types that otherwise really need Vileplume gone.
Why yes, the universally-considered #1 Pokemon in the tier does get better with Kadabra leaving, although not by much. With Kadabra going, the amount of usable Pokemon with a >100 speed stat drops to four, which means it's a little more acceptable to have your main fast mon just be raichu or dodrio, although if you do you very much need to avoid putting yourself in a position where you're gambling on your one winning a speed tie with the other. Rapidash goes from being tied for the 4th-fastest viable Pokemon to just being the 4th-fastest, which gives it a little more viability, although it's still relatively unexplored compared to Arcanine or even Flareon right now.
As for Crobat, Dugtrio, and Persian, they're all probably about as good as they were before (or not as good, in Crobat's case)
(Resttalk users)
One of the things that made Kadabra such a difficult Pokemon to answer defensively was its ability to screw with resttalk users really well, with Encore and Nightmare in particular standing out. With Kadabra gone, the role of Fast Encore User largely falls to Raichu, who lacks one-turn recovery and is thus a lot more vulnerable to being worn down over the course of a game than Kadabra was, while Nightmare is largely unexplored on non-Kadabra Pokemon. Maybe xatu can take that mantle, although Xatu's weaker psychics and lack of access to one-turn recovery means it probably won't be as oppressive.
Losers
Look, none of these Pokemon were particularly great beforehand due to being very much let down by their stats in spite of their unique typings and niches, but Kadabra being gone does give them less of a reason to be used on a team than before, especially egg. Egg could check mono-attack or mono-thunder punch sets decently well enough, although it lost to the not-uncommon Fire Punch or HP Dark variants, and had to choose between longevity or offensive pressure since Synthesis and Explosion weren't compatible. While having a grass type that actually resists ground seems nice, egg fails to really check the remaining things you'd want to with your grass type or your psychic resist outside of them. HP Ice raichu cleanly 2hkos it, Thunder is itself a 3hko, all the waters murder you with ice beam, and Xatu has STAB drill peck to deter you from switching in. If you're looking for a water and ground resist hybrid that isn't weak to psychic, just run Bayleef at this point.
Houndour wasn't garaunteed to win out vs kad (Pursuit does 40 max if Kadabra stays in, although mono-attack Kadabra was reasonably popular), and it actually does slightly less damage to Xatu with pursuit while being cleanly 2hkoed by drill peck. This seems like it'd be the end of a Pokemon who's already pretty mediocre, but due to a combination of different factors NU doesn't have (more and better rocks, the existence of raichu, and every good grass type in the tier being weak to Psychic) means Drill Peck isn't a must-run on Xatu, especially resttalk versions, and that gives Houndour more of a leg up than it'd otherwise have. It's a bit too early to tell if Night Shade or Drill Peck will be better long term, but it's not completely over for houndour yet. It also incidentally traps exeggcute and gastly, but given how uncommon they are that's more of a random perk than a selling point.
Magnemite is the only steel type in the game this far down, which does give it some level of niche even if its stats are absolutely awful. It lost to Fire Punch, Encore, and Nightmare variants of Kadabra, but it was only 4hkoed by its psychic, unlike the rest of the tier. Its main niche left is as a resttalk raichu that hard walls every plume variant except SD 2 attacks, which usually runs hp ground in the second slot, in exchange for losing to surf talk raichu and having a harder time in general coming in on the various waters of the tier. of the three here, I think Magnemite is probably the most likely to have a sustained niche due to its wholly unique typing, although I don't imagine it ever getting out of like C rank.
We're working on sample teams next, stay tuned for that. I'd once again like to thank THE_CHUNGLERGCGoatFastCarVroom!!! for voting on the slate with us and the VR. Looking forward to working more with you guys in the coming weeks!
Haven't had a lot of time to build recently due to other stuff taking up my time, but I do want to make some meta predictions.
Lumping all of these together since they relate to a big overarching point. Pineco in RU is divisive, with it ranging from A tier to B2 tier on people's VR's. Spikes are busted, and IDT I have to explain why, the issue comes with Pineco, as its a pretty horrible pokemon apart from setting up spikes as it can struggle to get in on anything that isn't the poison types, and even these have options such as sleep powder, fire blast, wing attack etc. This means that you kinda need to get the spike up, and then probably go boom since it probably can't get in as easily. However, people have started to explore spin sandslash, which while it is worse then SD slash, does have the valuable trait of removing spikes and can still make progress with either toxic or thief. This is hard for pineco, as before it had to deal with just hitmonlee and graveler, who are a lot harder to use on teams. I bring up kabutops as while it hasn't been running spin yet, I could see a similar trajectory. Spin, ancient power/hp rock, surf, thief/toxic could be a usable set, or even potentially a curse set with hp ground over surf that has spin tacked on last. If this does get used, I feel pineco's stocks will plummet, as it will have to be kept around longer incase there is a spinner, which as stated above is difficult to do.
Victreebel I have always found awkward to use, while its certainly powerful, it competes immensly with vileplume, who can be quite threatening in its own right while being much better defensively. SD sets have been the main standout, but I do think options such as growth and encore could be explored. Growth is a tool that can potentially be very devestating, as only politoed, poliwrath and flareon also get it. With this, I could see special attacking sets becoming a thing, with sleep+growth+giga drain+coverage letting it beat mons such as arcanine it might otherwise struggle with. Encore is a very cool tool, with it being something that raichu and even potentially dewgong can use. With encore, I could see victreebel using it to get more opportunities to start wallbreaking, as its able to lock down foes such as vileplume that might otherwise take its hits. Just a simple sludge bomb, giga drain, hp ground set could work wonders against any non bat team.
Speaking of crobat, crobat is a pokemon that while it has been seeing more experimentation, still can lack a bit compared to other options. Its ability to hard wall certain Pokemon such as Vileplume, Victreebel, Fighting types and certain variants of Sandslash. The issue is, Crobat just doesn't have much to its movepool, as while there are some cool options such as Giga Drain, you kinda need to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find any other useful tools. A set of Wing Attack, Hidden Power, Double-Edge, and filler is typically the standard, with Thief, Screech, Giga Drain, Haze etc usually filling the slot. But maybe there are some things that could be explored. Rest talk sets haven't seen much use, but they could have some potential. Toxic is an option to cripple switch ins such as Sandslash and certain Raichu and Arcanine sets, while Mimic could allow for some truly disgusting stuff such as Swords Dance, Thunder Wave, Surf etc. But Crobat does feel underutilised as of rn, maybe the standard sets just need to be used more.
These two unevolved Pokemon are incredibly bad stat wise, but have incredibly useful typings. Both primarily would be used for their ability to sit on SD Vileplume sets that only pack Sludge Bomb as an attack, which is something quite a few teams do. Gastly's Ghost typing means it can take the various Normal type moves in the tier with ease while also blocking Rapid Spin, though utilising it alongside either Pineco or Delibird sounds unappealing due to them lacking much defensive utility. Once Gastly is in, it can do quite a bit. Thief and Hypnosis can cripple its switchins quite a bit, while Psychic and Thunder can pack a punch due to its 100 special attack. And while its weak, Explosion can still claim a surprise KO. Magnemite is better then Gastly probably, but not by much. It can check Raichu, non HP Ground Dodrio and Xatu, while being annoying to switch into due to Thunder. However, its prone to getting overwhelmed very easily with any sort of chip and multiple Pokemon pack HP Ground that rips it apart. I think on specialised teams, these Pokemon can thrive and make the opponent a living nightmare.
Dugtrio was a Pokemon that received a lot of attention in the first few days of the tier, with its fast speed and Ground STAB giving it a pretty good looking matchup spread. However, as the tier progressed and the B3 drops happened, Dugtrio has found itself being worse, though by no means a bad Pokemon. The main issue isnt even Dugtrio's frailty, while it can struggle to switch in reliably it can typically find some opportunities. The main issue is Dugtrio's lack of damage output, as without Thief support or Spikes, it can really struggle to threaten any walls in the tier. Even Raichu can take an Earthquake from full. Dugtrio can force switches with Screech, but even then its not too threatening. Some options I could see are Sludge Bomb or Toxic to threaten poison on switch ins, though this can be unreliable with the amount of Rest-talkers in the tier and maybe even Mimic to take options that the opponent may have such as Thunder.
Going to talk about quite a few mostly unviable Pokemon here I could see having some merit in the meta. Raticate is a really bad Normal type, but does have Super Fang and Shadow Ball to set itself apart a bit, though its probably pretty bad. Octillery is really good in NU, but really bad in RU, as it faces strict competiton from the many other Water types in the tier that have better traits. However, aside from Omastar, Octillery has the highest Special attack of the Water types, and unlike Omastar is neutral to Water. It also has tools such as Amnesia, Flamethrower and Haze but those are unlikely to make a big impact. Hitmontop isn't a Pokemon that is on anybodys radar, hitmolee and primeape aren't already standout picks, while poliwrath is used less for its Fighting type at times, though it still is a valuable trait. Aside from Poliwrath, Hitmontop is the bulkiest of the Fighting types. I could see potentially Curse sets which have the advantage of reliable Fighting STAB over Poliwrath, or a Rapid Spin set that can switch in to attackers such as Kabutops and Dugtrio, and procede to threaten them out.
Hi, dropping the teams I built to get to semis of the Kickoff tour, not gonna put a ton into this post cos Xmas is breathing down my neck but I hope it's useful or interesting!
First team I built and the one that did the most work for me. Saw GSC RU and thought Double Water would rule the tier and I was right lol. Team initially had Golduck but I realised Dewgong kinda fit the role better being bulkier and having STAB Ice Beam. Reflect on Pineco makes the team's Sandslash MU a lot less scary. I wanted to run Weezing in general because it looked great in the tier, and it just so happened this tier needed a proper answer to Vileplume/Victreebel.
From here wanted to build a more standard team and a spikeless one, thought Sandslash was pretty hard to answer as a lead, the Toed was always gonna be Thief cos I think that's it's best set but Raichu ended up switching to Thief because the team needed a bit more progress forcing. Encore could always be Twave if you want it to be but I kinda like Encore for Sleep Talks/Subs/etc.
Was really trying to make Porygon work but its defensive rolls are too awkward - ended up running with Dunsparce because of superior bulk and ability to para Sandslash/other grounds and 1v1 rocks a little better. Dun ended up in the lead slot to get the Glares off right away. Went with Thief HP Ground Miracle Berry Raichu for the Raichu mirror - as I always do I ended up clicking Thief while still holding the item but still got the ditto win anyway. Felt wary of Spikes here, wanted spin on Kabu but still wanted some boosting so I tested Curse as SD wasn't legal. Don't know if it's optimal but it did work. HP Grass on Plume because the Water matchup needed improvement.
Low key built as a Keshba "counterteam" cos they were running the same teams lol. Kind of an "anti-standard balance" build in general I guess. Kabu lead looked really good if it didn't get crit turn 1. Searched high and low for a bulky enough neutral coverage mon, nothing ended up looking better than Lickitung for this team, who is pretty much Wigglytuff with less Atk and more Def. Rest Toed because the team needed the special bulk. Thanks to Chungler for helping me realise Weezing was the right bring in the slot, it was previously Sudowoodo.
GSC RU is a cool tier. I wanna stick around and play it more
Sad to go out in finals to a pretty haxxy set (on both sides, can't complain too much about it lol), but had fun nonetheless.
Shoutouts to Miyami~~~ for helping me with my teams and making sure I always had a good BP mu with my teams (I hate how I never faced a single bp team though, can't even show off the prep).
Here are some of my teams:
Farfetch'd BO Poligrav BO Curse Stantler offense Subtoxt Dodrio offense Crobat offense TangWeez offense Dugtrio spikes Magmar BO Double Water BO Kabutops BO TangBat offense Flareon BO Dragonair BO
Some of my meta thoughts:
Raichu is the single best mon in the tier, bar none. Yes, pokemon such as arc, plume, toed, slash are all great, but nothing compares to the sheer pressure raichu exerts not only on the builder but in battle. Rest-talk hp ice is by far the best set as its able output incredibly consistent offensive pressure over the course of the game while checking other raichu and waters. Other sets have some upsides, but generally feel worse overall. Nothing really likes taking on raichu, as even vileplume (which is probably its best check), can be thunder para'd and then take too much from hp ice to beat it. This kinda forces raichu mirrors, which feel very uninteractive. Before, raichu felt like a powerful, but healthy top tier, but recently IDT thats the case and I think in the future it will need to be banned for the health of the metagame.
Arcanine is still top dog (pun intended), but I have been experimenting more with it. Rest talk is good and all, don't get me wrong, but it can use a lot of unique sets if it frees up a moveslot. Curse+3A is known and is fine, but the primary thing I'm talking about is rest without sleep talk. After experimenting, I think arc is the only pokemon in the tier that can really utilise rest with no sleep talk effectively, everything else it feels bad on. Freeing up a moveslot is big, as it allows arc to be so much more threatening. HP grass/ground can threaten rocks, waters or fires, roar can completely dismantle BP teams, toxic can threaten rocks and bulky waters to rest more easily, I've tried mimic which can be a funny option to get thunder from stuff, reflect can be used to improve your mu into physical breakers and opposing arcanine. Just in general, this is so much better, and arcanine can generally burn sleep turns better then most things since it can switch into basically anything in the tier. Non rest sets are also fine, but personally not my cup of tea.
If I had to give my personal tier list of waters it would be politoed>poliwrath>kabutops>omastar>golduck>dewgong. None of these are bad tbh, all do different things and do them well. Politoed is the most basic water, but it does that job very well. Poliwrath is kinda just a bit of a downgrade, but stab fighting can be useful in certain scenarios alongside better physical bulk to take on slash and arc better. Kabutops is extremely threatening if given proper flex room and chances, but is usually held back by its awkward typing at times. Oma is kabu if you trade it for a special attacker, can be good but only okay at times into water squads, but if those are dealt with its extremely threatening. Golduck is the most threatening of the waters, but trades for bulk. Can be decently good but does need support. Dewgong is great into squads that rely on grasses to check waters, but has the major issue of being the worst water into arcanine since it doesn't resist fire. One thing I will say, I don't believe in double water squads, as they generally sacrifice their mu into raichu, and that is possibly the worst thing to do, while also not feeling like they give anything majorly in return for that which can't be dealt with in other ways.
Plume and victreebell are great and all, but other poison types are also great and should be explored more. Weezing completely walls most plume sets and can generally be annoying to switch into for a good majority of teams. Crobat I am especially fond of and will campaign that its good until the day I die. HP ground is the truth, that set is incredible for its ability to be an annoying little shit to switch into and is great at cleaning late game. Despite its lackluster movepool, its actually got surprising depth. Rest-talk can consistently switch into plume, screech can be a good wallbreaker, toxic can threaten bulky waters more effectively, haze can stop setup sweepers like SD slash very easily, mimic can be fun to get poison stab or a status move. Just in general, think crobat is pretty great in this meta.
Sandslash is one of those pokemon that in theory destroys every team, but in practice, doesn't really do as great. The primary issue is that slash can struggle to reliably switch in, with its best switchin opportunites primarily being against weezing, thunder predicts, and mons clicking rest. Weezing can sludge bomb poison which is ruinious to its longterm hp, thunder predicts are unreliable outside of the first time its done, and mons clicking rest is nice, but they can still potentially pressure you or switch to something that can tank the eq easily. I've been trying to experiment with options like thief and counter, but I am souring on it more.
Speaking of sandslash, I think tangela is a pretty great mon as its ability to hard counter sandslash is bar none and allows for some really greedy structures. The main issues are the horrible raichu mu, and the less then stellar plume mu. Plume is pretty dealable, as hp ice chunks it while teammates like weezing and crobat are great pokemon for it already. The raichu mu is the main issue, but with smart teambuilding, isn't impossible. Typically your own raichu+bulky normal or sandslash is generally able to handle it. Even outside of beating sandslash, tangela also really screws over normals, rocks, and fightings, which are just as important MU's. I know I'm the only one using tangela, but I do encourage other people to use it more, genuinelly great mon.
The main mons which I've soured on hard are pineco, persian, and rapidash. Spikes I think are not only less impactful in RU, but also way easier to remove then other tiers. With dodrio, xatu, and crobat being great pokemon, a good chunk of teams will have some way to not get affected by them. Combine that with the fact that we have 5 pokemon which I could confidently say can run spin (kabu and slash do need to go a bit out of the way to use it, but graveler, top and lee can all comfortably fit it), and its already not a great start. Pineco suffers further issues as it can't reliably switch into anything, the poisons either status it (forcing miracle berry) or can outright threaten it, and the main grounds can hit it with rock slide. This means most people have to rely on double switches to get it in, which is not something desireable. People have been theorycrafting delibird, but I don't think thats going to pan out great.
Persian suffers from being inconsistent and competition. Persian has to rely incredibly hard on landing hypnosis, which if it misses, its making incredibly little progress. And since its so frail, you have to use it in the lead position, and cannot try to do some back cleaner deal. It also heavily competes with stantler, who is a lot more consistent due to its return not inflicting recoil and being the same strength, and access to eq while having better bulk. Yes, you outspeed a good majority of the tier, but dugtrio and crobat outspeed you so you can't even do that.
Any non arcanine or flareon fire type I do not rate at all in the tier. Arc I don't think I have to explain, but flareon at least has baton pass+growth to allow some disgusting mons to thrive to allow itself to be used sometimes over arc, and even drypass can be useful to allow for switch initiative. Rapidash unfortunately is not bringing anything to the table to make me use it over the other two fires. Yes, 105 speed is good, but its not fast enough to outspeed enough mons for its only okay power. Hypnosis is cool, but relying on 60% accuracy isn't great. So if I cannot replace it over arcanine, then you have to use it alongside it, but double fire cores open up way too much defensively. I've been trying stuff such as magmar and houndour, as if you can cripple arc's checks, it can be incredibly dangerous. But they have not performed well, and neither has rapidash.
With the conclusion of the kickoff tour, we have decided to update the resources, as they are decently out of date as the meta has evolved. Everybody welcome Aurist and KeshBa54 to our VR council!
Before we get to that though, here are the stats for the kickoff tour.
Here are our samples, thank you to everybody who submitted. Tangbat offense by Heatranator KabuWhirl BO by THE_CHUNGLER Dodrio BO by Heatranator Pineco Spikes by Aurist Flareon BO by Heatranator Persian Pass by Miyami Curse Stantler Offense by Heatranator Double Poison Offense by Miyami Thief Oma BO by Heatranator Thief Kabu BO by THE_CHUNGLER Shuckle Stall by JesenDale and THE_CHUNGLER
And finally here is our updated VR.
Will edit the post later to go over some significant changes (i.e. moving more then 2 tiers or such)
The amount of viable fully-evolved Water Pokemon in GSC RU outnumbers every other type we have access to. As in most tiers, water's combination of defensive utility and high-BP stabs means putting one on every team is near mandatory, especially with all the available options. A lot of waters play fairly similar on face value. Surf/Rest/Sleep Talk/Ice Beam or HP Electric is an easy slap-on set for every water in the tier, so you have to really look deeper to their other options to really differentiate them. There are six viable waters in GSC, so I'll be covering all of them plus a few honorable mentions who aren't as good but may be interesting, starting with the best one:
Belly Drum (Politoed) @ Leftovers / Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Lovely Kiss
- Belly Drum
- Double-Edge / Earthquake
- Hydro Pump / Earthquake / Hidden Power [Flying]
Politoed's incredibly balanced stats, useful mono-water typing, and reasonably wide movepool make it the frontrunner for your team's water slot. Rest Talk Politoed is one of the best defensive cornerstones in the tier, serving as your primary arcanine check with the stats to take stray hits from basically all of the tier's attackers on every side if it needs to. Even weaker hidden powers can bounce off of it from Pokemon such as Xatu, giving it a very wide defensive profile. Politoed also has reasonably high special attack and a boosting move for it, letting it play lead and breaker on double water archetypes. Belly Drum also has a nice over BD Wrath despite the lower attack stat thanks to its better typing giving it easier switch-in opportunities. Politoed is my pick for the #3 Pokemon in the tier thanks to its good traits, and especially on less offensive teams where its average speed tier doesn't hurt it as much, it's hard not to pick it.
Politoed does have some noticeable weaknesses. While resttalk pushes out a lot of competition, it does face more competition for slots on mono-water teams in its other sets, particularly with more offensively geared waters such as Kabutops. While access to thief and a decent sleep move makes it a solid lead, it is slower than most other common leads besides sudowoodo and thus gets forced out more often than it likes. Additionally, it also has to pick between recovery, hitting grasses, and hitting other waters, and thus will always be missing something. Luckily for toed, that's a flaw inherent to all the waters in the tier, and so it doesn't hurt it that much.
Swords Dance (Kabutops) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 22 HP / 26 Atk / 24 Def
- Swords Dance
- Double-Edge / Body Slam / Return
- Hidden Power [Rock] / AncientPower
- Hydro Pump
Rapid Spin (Kabutops)
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 22 HP / 26 Atk / 24 Def
- Thief
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Rock] / AncientPower
- Surf
Kabutops is among the most dangerous sweepers of the tier, leveraging its amazing typing offensively and defensively and well-allotted stats for its typing to get ample setup opportunities for itself. While base 65 special attack isn't great, Hydro Pump's high base power masks that well enough, and it isn't your primary click anyways. In a tier with one (1) steel type who isn't even fully evolved, rocks take the spot as the normal resists of the tier, and Kabutops is the best of those in spite of its crippling weakness to hidden power grass. Pokemon like Arcanine and Dodrio occasionally run HP grass primarily just for Kabutops. While its defensive typing is great for quick switch ins, Kabutops gets less out of rest talk than other top Pokemon in GSC RU, as it's fairly passive without swords dance, walled by rocks without surf, and lacks utility without both spin and thief.
Kabutops has some weird move incompatibilities. In particular, it doesn't learn Rock Slide for some reason, leaving it reliant on Ancient Power or HP Rock to use its best stab. Ancient Power is a little weak, but it frees up other hidden power options and has a 5% chance to do something very funny every time you click it. While Kabutops usually has a free slot on SD sets, that cannot be Rapid Spin for role compression as that isn't compatible, and Body Slam and spin also aren't compatible. This means Kabutops has to pick between being a sweeper and a utility pokemon and can't really do both.
Kabutops is also the primary beneficiary of "double water" builds, where you pair SD Kabutops with a resttalk water (usually politoed or dewgong) to maximize the value in both of them by having one dedicated to power and one dedicated to longevity. This also helps Kabutops not get gimped by random HP grass mons quite as much since you can switch in your specially bulky water when expected while using Kabutops's normal resistance to its biggest advantage,
While Dewgong does have other moves like Encore, Dewgong is primarily defined as a rest talk water with a very good secondary STAB option. For a set every water can run, Dewgong's ability to 2hko the most common water switch-in with Ice Beam is almost wholly unique to it:
Politoed Ice Beam vs. Vileplume: 137-162 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Omastar Ice Beam vs. Vileplume: 163-192 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 4.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Dewgong Ice Beam vs. Vileplume: 178-210 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Nothing else about Dewgong really matters, as keeping Vileplume out is so important since it forces the opponent to use their own waters or raichu as their primary water check, removing a fair amount of guessing for the dewgong player. STAB ice beam is also pretty much unique to it, as every other water has relatively poor or no secondary stab and every other ice sucks. Most teams aren't really prepared for a water/ice combo that isn't their own water, so if that goes down Dewgong goes from relatively passive to surprisingly hard to switch into in spite of its low offensive stats.
Dewgong, like Kabutops, Poliwrath, and Omastar, suffers a little from a mixed bag of a secondary type. STAB Ice is really nice on the offensive front but being a water that doesn't resist fire, and is weak to rock, makes it a much less viable switch-in for arcanine and kabutops. This puts Dewgong on somewhat of a different axis than something like Politoed in terms of what it checks, and usually leaves it to more balanced or defensive teams that can really cover for these minor flaws.
Support (Poliwrath) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Lovely Kiss
- Surf
- Dynamic Punch
- Ice Beam
I can't be bothered to actually slash it all, but Poliwrath has a lot of random utility moves like Seismic Toss, Counter, Haze, Thief, and Body Slam that can go into the last two slots.
Belly Drum (Poliwrath) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Lovely Kiss
- Belly Drum
- Earthquake / Hydro Pump / Hidden Power [Flying]
- Return / Hydro Pump / Hidden Power [Flying]
Poliwrath is weird. Its fighting type, while unique, has the minor downside of sucking ass. Poliwrath doesn't even learn Cross Chop, robbing it of a physical stab for belly drum sets. Poliwrath is best used as a short-lived answer to the water things that spreads status and has wider coverage than the other waters with options like psychic, EQ, and Dynamic Punch. DPunch in particular lets it muscle through the other waters 50% of the time, which is 100% of the time if you believe hard enough. Counter is a fun surprise vs things like SD tops/Sandslash, which can otherwise be extremely dangerous to the average team, and Poliwrath is the best of the waters at switching into SD Sandslash due to it having the highest physical bulk of any of the waters in the tier that aren't weak to ground. Belly Drum is primarily used on either paralysis spam or baton pass teams that can make up for its average speed tier. Compared to Politoed, Wrath's typing is worse for setup and it gets almost no benefit from it, but it does hit slightly harder and thus can drop hydro pump for more valuable physical coverage.
Poliwrath's primary issue, like Kabutops, is its lack of longevity. It can't really fit all of its utility into two moves and is outclassed at Rest/talk/surf/hp ice sets by Politoed and Dewgong almost entirely. This makes it a reasonable pick for double water teams in the more offensive water spot, but if it's your only water, you need to have a secondary Arcanine check in mind.
Lead (Golduck) @ Leftovers / Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
Our last two good waters are defined by their higher special attack than the others, which helps a lot vs vileplume and the other waters if they have the right coverage for it. Golduck is generally best used as a hypnosis lead given its decent speed tier (gets over wrath/toed and everything slower, ties stantler, slower than arc/chu/cat but arc doesn't want to stay in on it) and reasonable offensive presence, although Golduck is an honest citizen and cannot actually learn thief for some reason, which kind of kneecaps it a bit. Golduck is limited to more offensive teams, since it can't really do rest talk without coming off as a less bulky politoed, so you better make sure your team is prepared to play fast enough to not matter.
Thief + 3 Attacks (Omastar)
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk
- Thief
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
Omastar, unfortunately, doesn't get as much benefit out of its rock typing as Kabutops. A normal resist is always very nice, and it's generally a reasonable switchin to arc or dodrio, but as a primarily bulky Pokemon losing it to a stray hidden power feels a lot worse than losing tops. Additionally, Omastar lacks a rock STAB strong enough to make up for its poor attack stat, locking it out of the mixed sets that make Kabutops so treatening. The end result is a very awkward Pokemon to build with despite having the overall best stat allotment of all the water Pokemon in the tier. Omastar lacks any good utility moves outside of Thief or Haze, nor any way to boost its offenses, leaving it constrained to bulky attacker that struggles to really find a niche in the sea of other waters. Its best trick is the ability to 2HKO Raichu with Hydro Pump, scaring out a potential switchin in much the same way Dewgong does with vileplume.
Omastar is a fine pick on double water teams, which make up for its defensive shortcomings and allow its stronger offensive presence and ability to freely run HP electric on its best set to really shine. If it weren't a rock it'd probably be better as a rest talker than Politoed, but oh well.
and now, for the bad Pokemon lightning round:
- maybe I'll cover this more in a hypothetical electric type post, but it's a bad raichu with a unique typing generally. It is a water that beats all the other waters, which is cute, but generally its low stats let it down too much.
- Has seen some experimentation as a baton pass recipient a la BD Polis, since its naturally higher attack and ability to fit Amnesia better than they do helps give it a small niche.
- there's too many other waters in the tier for this to really succeed even if there's nothing actually wrong with it. Flamethrower would be a lot cooler if Ice Beam wasn't on every other water with the exact same BP.
maybe I'll do more posts like this, although some types only have a single viable Pokemon, so I might run out of options for a real post fairly quick.
Compared to the Water-types in the tier, Fire-types in the tier are much less viable. The primary reason is due to the amount of viable Water-types that make it difficult to utilise them to their fullest extent, especially with Rock-types also being on a large portion of teams. This doesn't mean all Fire-types are unviable, as there is a unique spread of viability from being meta defining to being absolute shit.
Resttalk (Arcanine) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Double-Edge / Body Slam
Curse (Arcanine) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Flamethrower
- Extreme Speed / Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Utility (Arcanine) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Flamethrower
- Body Slam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Toxic / Reflect / Rest / Roar
Yeah, this is the singular mon stopping me from saying Fire-types are complete dogshit. Arcanine is one of the top tier Pokemon in GSC RU, and is never below number 2 in VR rankings the vast majority of the time. The reason why Arcanine is so good is because it just statmogs the tier. Its bulky, its strong and its decently fast. This allows it to be an offensive presence that can also softcheck basically anything in the tier, even certain Water-types it can check if they are chipped enough and Arcanine's health is high enough. This leads it to be used on a variety of teams, as Rest-talk can softcheck a large variety of the tier, while other sets like Curse and Utility can be very annoying to switch into. Curse makes Arcanine into a sweeping threat, utilising its Fire STAB to deter Vileplume from switching in while HP Ground can do good damage to opposing Arcanine, Raichu and Rock-types that might trouble it. It can then choose between E-speed to pick off frailer targets like Dodrio or run Double-Edge to do significant damage to Water types. Utility sets are the most awkward to switch into, as they typically pack HP Grass to ensure any Rock-types are wary of switching in. It can then utilise any one of its utility moves last to either support its team or annoy the opposing team.
Arcanine does have its flaws though. The majority of teams will have one or both of a Water or Rock type, and while there are ways to get through them, a good majority of sets cannot, forcing Arcanine out and thus limiting its offensive potential. It also is outsped by the base 100's in Raichu and Dodrio, which can deal significant damage to it despite the fact Arcanine does a lot to them in return. This can also force Arcanine out, though this is a lesser issue.
Bulky Attacker (Flareon) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Double-Edge / Body Slam
- Baton Pass / Growth / Hidden Power [Electric]
- Growth / Baton Pass
The only other Fire-type that can even remotely compete with Arcanine, Flareon distinguishes itself by having access to the highly coveted Baton Pass and Growth, which cann allow Flareon to support its team very effectively. With its high base attack and decent special bulk, Flareon can like Arcanine, put on good offensive pressure while retaining defensive utility. Flareon doesn't need to go all out Growth Pass either, as it can choose one or the other for what its team needs. Baton Pass allows Flareon to generate momentum for its team, allowing dangerous threats like Sandslash, Victreebel, Poliwrath and Xatu completely free entry and giving them the desirable mu's they want without having to take damage. Growth can also make Flareon pretty annoying to switch into since it can threaten a good chunk of the meta reliably with STAB+HP+normal attack. If Flareon so desires though, it can go full Growth Pass, with the added move of Substitute if it wants, since its the only Growth passer in the tier to help support full Baton Pass teams.
However, Flareon does have its issues. Primarily, flareon is pretty slow, and this becomes an issue since it underspeeds Sandslash and all of the water types bar Omastar. This immediately forces Flareon out, meaning it can be unreliable at passing a Growth boost since it will most likely only be able to do it once per battle. It also struggles with distinguishing itself from Arcanine, as if it doesn't pack either Baton Pass or Growth, it is basically a worse Arcanine despite its better physical attack and thus has no reason for use. This means Flareon cannot experiment easily with its moveset, as Fire stab and normal attack are mandatory, and typically a HP is needed to make sure certain Pokemon don't take advantage of it.
Resttalk (Rapidash) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Double-Edge
Lead (Rapidash) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Hypnosis
- Fire Blast
- Double-Edge
- Reflect / Sunny Day / Toxic
Rapidash carves out a small niche in the tier as one of the fastest Pokemon available, able to outspeed the likes of Raichu and Dodrio while being able to decent damage with STAB+normal move. Crucially, its able to threaten a 3HKO on Raichu and a 2HKO on Dodrio, either forcing them into a Restloop or forcing them out entirely, with it being able to also stomach a hit from them if it needs to switch in. Its access to Hypnosis+Reflect also means that Rapidash can be an effective lead Pokemon for more offensive playstyles like Baton Pass, allowing it to sleep something then make teammates have an easier time setting up with Reflect. It also has enough bulk to do this multiple times, giving some level of consistency to these teams.
Imma be real, I struggled to write the positive section. Rapidash primarily struggles with the fact that Arcanine is better in 90% of usecases and its positive attributes are not as good as one might think from first glance. Arcanine is both stronger and bulkier then Rapidash, and with the high power level of RU, this can be the difference between Rapidash forced to Restloop against Vilplume and Arcanine forcing Vileplume out. Hypnosis is also not as useful as may seem due to the nature of GSC meaning most teams have at least one Rest-talk mon alongside Hypnosis's shaky accuracy. Finally, Rapidash's speed allows it to outspeed two top tiers, but its still outsped by the likes of Crobat, Dugtrio, and Persian, meaning some teams can offensively pressure Rapidash very easily.
And now for the lightning round:
Houndour does one thing really well, trapping Xatu. Thats it. Now, it can do some other stuff with thief and its offensive typing, but typically you want to heavily chip or remove Xatu from play, allowing for Pokemon such as Hitmontop and Primeape to go ham. However, its not bulky in the slightest and despite its decent offensive typing, struggles with the prolific Arcanine and water types.
Magcargo completely walls Rest-talk Arcanine while also doing well into Vileplume and certain Normal types. It can also use its offensive typing to force chip on Water types. However, Magcargo is very prone to being blown up by random HP coverage and is stonewalled by the Water type every team has.
Magmar has access to all of Thief, Thunder Punch, and Cross Chop, making it an annoying Pokemon to switch into that can support its team with Thief, primarily Arcanine. However, Magmar struggles from its low bulk and its need to be paired with Arcanine, which can force annoying defensive gaps in the teams its present on.
Ninetales is able to speed tie Raichu unlike Arcanine, has slightly better special bulk and access to Hypnosis. However, its generally just better to use Arcanine in 99% of cases since its more offensively threatening, has higher physical bulk and its typically able to take on Raichu just fine.
GSC RarelyUsed 
Kadabra
:farfetch'd: 
- TangBat Offense by Heatranator
- Double Water Spikes by Aurist
- Pivot Flareon BO by Heatranator
:farfetch'd: 
- Stantler Offense by Heatranator
:gs/farfetch'd: 
- there's too many other waters in the tier for this to really succeed even if there's nothing actually wrong with it. Flamethrower would be a lot cooler if Ice Beam wasn't on every other water with the exact same BP.
Magmar has access to all of Thief, Thunder Punch, and Cross Chop, making it an annoying Pokemon to switch into that can support its team with Thief, primarily Arcanine. However, Magmar struggles from its low bulk and its need to be paired with Arcanine, which can force annoying defensive gaps in the teams its present on.