Gen 2 GSC UU Viability Ranking Thread

Sage

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GSC UU Viability Rankings
written by Sage, Lavos, and Earthworm
approved by undisputed

With UUPL coming to a close and GSC UU seeing some real tournament play, UU leadership figured that it would be good to establish a VR and broaden the playerbase. With the new update Pokemon are now fully ranked, including in their own subranks.

S Rank:

S
01
Nidoqueen


A Rank:

A+
02
Scyther
03
Slowbro
04
Granbull


A
05
Hypno
06
Qwilfish
07
Mr. Mime
08
Bellossom
09
Slowking
10
Omastar
11
Dodrio


A-
12
Jumpluff
13
Blastoise
14
Haunter
15
Ampharos
16
Magneton
17
Electabuzz
18
Kabutops



B Rank:

B+
19
Piloswine
20
Gyarados
21
Chansey
22
Pinsir
23
Sandslash

B
24
Quagsire
25
Politoed
26
Kadabra
27
Victreebel
28
Lanturn
29
Gligar

B-
30
Girafarig
31
Electrode
32
Pikachu
33
Arcanine
34
Vileplume


C Rank:

C+
35
Graveler
36
Shuckle
37
Poliwhirl
38
Crobat
39
Magmar
40
Flareon

C
41
Wigglytuff
42
Feraligatr
43
Weezing
44
Lickitung
45
Raichu
46
Poliwrath
47
Pineco

C-
48
Sudowoodo
49
Xatu
50
Raticate
51
Persian
52
Dewgong
53
Dunsparce
54
Ariados


6/6/18- GSC UU VR created.
6/7/18- Kabutops added from UR to B
9/21/18 - Massive Update, two different GSC UU tournaments granted a much better usage sample to determine trends and what was used.
10/2/18 - Added numeric rankings, added Sudowoodo to C rank and added C- rank
10/7/18- Victreebel from C+ to B-, Graveler from B- to C+ (Final update before GSC NU rebirth)
8/7/19 - Many changes based on UUPL statistics and player opinions
 
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Play GSC UU a lot around 8 years ago. Althogh there is some differences of tiering uu. Victreebel, Politoed are definitely top threat in GSC UU. Politoed can use growth sleep talk like Vap in OU. Victreebel can SD with STAB sludge bomb and somewhat unpredictable because the timing of sleep powder, if it use grass or hidden power fire as secondary attack or just carry both.
 
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Sage

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According to 2015's version of myself for SPL6's All-Star Week, I demand recognition for my boy Kabutops. :smogthink:
Kabutops actually should have been in A- or B, I don't know why it got deleted whoops.

Play GSC UU a lot around 8 years ago. Althogh there is some differences of tiering uu. Victreebel, Politoed are definitely top threat in GSC UU. Politoed can use growth sleep talk like Vap in OU. Victreebel can SD with STAB sludge bomb and somewhat unpredictable because the timing of sleep powder, if it use grass or hidden power fire as secondary attack or just carry both.
Politoed is definitely strong but can be forced out by strong physical attackers or Electrics, and doesn't carry the useful Psychic STAB like the slow brothers do. If it runs Growth Sleep Talk it doesn't have room for Amnesia and Electrics handle it that much better, so you have to pick your poison. Victreebel is definitely very scary on paper, but it can struggle in practice due to its mediocre speed tier and 4MSS. It really wants all 3 of Sleep Powder, HP Ground, and Giga Drain, but will only get to use two of them. Dodrio and Scyther are often lategame mons that will be healthy when Victreebel wants to sweep and outspeed it with SE STAB or maybe a Flail in Dodrio's case, as well as being hit hard by Fire Blast Queen.
 
Kabutops actually should have been in A- or B, I don't know why it got deleted whoops.



Politoed is definitely strong but can be forced out by strong physical attackers or Electrics, and doesn't carry the useful Psychic STAB like the slow brothers do. If it runs Growth Sleep Talk it doesn't have room for Amnesia and Electrics handle it that much better, so you have to pick your poison. Victreebel is definitely very scary on paper, but it can struggle in practice due to its mediocre speed tier and 4MSS. It really wants all 3 of Sleep Powder, HP Ground, and Giga Drain, but will only get to use two of them. Dodrio and Scyther are often lategame mons that will be healthy when Victreebel wants to sweep and outspeed it with SE STAB or maybe a Flail in Dodrio's case, as well as being hit hard by Fire Blast Queen.
C is too low anyway. Vic wont be lower than Bello. And I prefer special hidden power to ease prediction with Vic. It can also threaten kabu and most toad. Many years ago Dodrio, Ampharos, Sandslash, Slowbro were BL I believe. Actually if you move Sandslash to UU you can also move Donphan to UU for a try.
 
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I assume Nidoqueen is some kind of mini-Nidoking here, whereas Qwilfish and Granbull are so high thanks to their access to Spikes and Heal Bell, respectively. What makes Slowbro, Dodrio and Scyther so good? Enlighten me.
 
I assume Nidoqueen is some kind of mini-Nidoking here, whereas Qwilfish and Granbull are so high thanks to their access to Spikes and Heal Bell, respectively. What makes Slowbro, Dodrio and Scyther so good? Enlighten me.
Many years ago I may let my opponent use Dodrio as a handicap play for me. It has potential to sweep with flail if it played well and has strong STAB and high speed. When Dodrio gets 1HP left it can still switch out and come in later despite of spikes and this point is also the only reason you can try Dodrio in OU. And I dont think Slowbro is much better than Toad. And I didnt see much Scyther that time.
 

Lavos

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Many years ago I may let my opponent use Dodrio as a handicap play for me. It has potential to sweep with flail if it played well and has strong STAB and high speed. When Dodrio gets 1HP left it can still switch out and come in later despite of spikes and this point is also the only reason you can try Dodrio in OU. And I dont think Slowbro is much better than Toad. And I didnt see much Scyther that time.
perhaps the meta has changed a bit in the last 8 years?
 

Mr.E

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On initial glance I think it's weird for Bellossom to be ranked higher than Vic/Vile too, because Sludge Bomb is a pretty cool guy, but considering it matches up better against some of the premier threats of the tier, Nidoqueen and Slowbro/king, it may not be wrong.
What makes Slowbro, Dodrio and Scyther so good? Enlighten me.
Slowbro, and Slowking, are just bulky waters with good BST + stat spread and the benefit of a good complementary secondary typing. Psychic STAB gives them an edge against other bulky waters and Grass-types that resist their primary typing (and hits Grass/Poison 2x to boot), and Psychic resistance allows them to take on pure Psychics (just like RBY). Slowbro in particular is one of the most physically bulky mons in the tier, making it a decent check against most high-powered physical threats.

Dodrio is just generically fast and hard-hitting and is the next best option that remains after all its contemporaries' bans (Tauros, Kangaskhan, etc.). It doesn't do anything special, but I suppose it's fast and strong enough to be a serious threat. Good Normal resists in UU are pretty limited in number, and not a strict necessity in a metagame without Snorlax.

Scyther is similar to Dodrio, almost certainly better overall but not strictly so. It doesn't hit as hard without the benefit of STAB (on Return, plus Wing Attack versus Drill Peck) but it gets Swords Dance, is just bulky enough to take an extra hit much of the time, and Baton Pass is nasty. BP not only lets Scyther pivot out of bad matchups while passing its +2 to a better threat for the matchup, it also forces opponents to respect the possibility and trend toward phazing instead of direct attacks (further boosting Scyther's survivability). Aside themselves, Scyther also speed ties Kadabra and Electabuzz.
 

Jorgen

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Slowbro is probably too high. It's good but not "cut above the rest" good. Slowking is also not that far below Slowbro. Y'all kinda overrate Kadabra and rightly recognize Nidoqueen's dominance so I'd expect y'all to see how Slowking could help you out where Slowbro would struggle. Then again you probably slightly overrate super-frail Dodrio too, so I guess I can see why Slowbro seems real dang good. Problem is Slowbro's weaknesses are huge and lead to big opportunities to capitalize (e.g., Scyther / Pinsir sweep attempts, also Sandslash loves to see you try to counter Grounds with a Slowbro).

Hypno is way too high. It takes way over 30% from Nidoqueen EQ and it's slower to boot. Good luck sending it into an Electric, too; you're better off using Chansey wherever you'd consider using a Hypno.

B'toise is low-key probably the #2 or #3 poke in UU (behind Nido and perhaps Granbull). It's basically the ultimate Nidoqueen counter (faster, hits STAB SE) with a Sleep Talk set. Plus if you're scared of Scyther or Mime or Giraffe it gets Haze or even Roar if you want to counter Ptrap from Haunter or Dewgong. Basically move him up to A+ imo.

Haunter & Kadabra are probably overrated in this list. They seem like prototypical B-tier pokes. As in, definitely pokes with huge upsides (Haunter counters Granbull quite hard and can run Ptrap shenanigans whereas Kadabra outspeeds Nidoqueen and hits like a truck if you don't resist it), but with clear flaws that keep them from being consistent contributors (in this case, both are quite frail and easy to shut down if the surprise/matchup factor isn't tilting in their favor)

Chansey probably belongs in A tier tbf. It's so good at shutting things down that would otherwise be kinda scary (afraid of M Dragon's Magmar or Random Kid's Kadabra? Chansey got you friend).

Lanturn & Pikachu really are not good in UU. They are not B-tier "low-key kinda good" pokes.

Quagsire & Victreebel are often overrated by the "old-school" crowd but this list makes the opposite mistake of conflating them with the dregs of C tier. Those two being overrated by "old-schoolers" is what allowed Nidoqueen's meteoric rise to the top, don'tcha know (because Nidoqueen loves Electrics running HP Grass for Quag and of course it counters Victreebel real good).

"New-school" pokes like Crobat, Weezing, and Wigglytuff also probably deserve to be evaluated more critically. Crobat is like the ultimate anti-Scyther defense and generally has really good stats for UU; Weezing blows up and also gets Haze; Wigglytuff runs a slower but ultimately snowballier version of Granbull's Curse set thanks to not being 2HKOed by Magneton Thunder or 3HKOed by Slowbro Surf.

Omastar and Shuckle probably need to be mentioned somewhere. The former is good for Granbull & Dodrio & Wigglytuff, if a bit limited in all other respects; Shuckle isn't good for much besides PP stalling but with Spikes down he can do just that against those Normals and also any variant of Nidoqueen (!!)
 

Mr.E

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I ain't sticking up for Kadabra or Dodrio (not in this metagame anyway, RBY is another matter YO), but Hypno is actually a reasonably difficult to answer threat that Chansey could never hope to be. Indeed, its only good answer is the Slowbro/Slowking you so maligned... or I suppose Chansey. :smogthink: T-Wave and/or lack of bulk to stand up to Hypno's mediocre SpA betray most physical responses other than Granbull. I'm quite confident in declaring Hypno better than Chansey. I'd say also Chansey is different enough that it's not like you should just be interchanging them either, however.

Would hardly say Nidoqueen's dominance in UU is because of Quagsire and especially Victreebel being overrated though (nevermind that Nidoqueen isn't good against either of them directly, but who the fuck cares about Victreebel). It's dominant because it's a reasonable facsimile of its OU-dominant male-gendered version and UU doesn't have the bulk to punish her relatively lower attack power.
 
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Quick view: I just checked the official list of UU mons and we note the absence of the following mons in these VRs: Raichu, Ninetales, Golduck, Poliwrath, Hitmonlee and Omastar. Have they been forgotten or are they no longer considered viable? If this is the second situation, the logic would be to retrogate them in NU.

Conversely and given their high rank, Haunter, Mr. Mime and Pikachu could go back to UU (there was a debate on this here). I don't even speak of a hypothetical unban of the 25 UUBLs (as it was the case in RBY): it's not the purpose of this thread.
 

Earthworm

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Quick view: I just checked the official list of UU mons and we note the absence of the following mons in these VRs: Raichu, Ninetales, Golduck, Poliwrath, Hitmonlee and Omastar. Have they been forgotten or are they no longer considered viable? If this is the second situation, the logic would be to retrogate them in NU.

Conversely and given their high rank, Haunter, Mr. Mime and Pikachu could go back to UU (there was a debate on this here). I don't even speak of a hypothetical unban of the 25 UUBLs (as it was the case in RBY): it's not the purpose of this thread.
As a possible candidate for the person who changes to the tier list for GSC NU would affect the most, I personally wouldn't be opposed to considering dropping some or all of these Pokemon into GSC NU. Since this is probably not the right thread to continue discussing this, I will contact a few others who have a stake in the tier and see if this is something worthy of consideration. I have my own opinions about how such a change should happen which I will possibly explain later, should other relevant people be open to such changes.
 
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Diophantine

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Quagsire: C-->B


Quagsire is the perfect fit for Baton Pass teams as it makes use from Amnesia (Girafarig) and Agility (Scyther) passing to walk through teams after a Belly Drum. Common switch-ins to Scyther, such as the Electric and Rock types hate Quagsire which means that passing speed to Quag is fairly easy.

Some things hold Quagsire back from being A- or above, however. Quag needs the BP support to reach its true potential. Crobat even outspeeds +2 speed Quagsire and can Haze on it. With Belly Drum on its own, it is not too difficult to revenge kill with some Grass move and it faces constant pressure throughout the game as it is pretty slow, especially as teams that will run Quag will be more offensive and are thus not likely to have access to Rapid Spin.

Jumpluff: C-->B

Jumpluff is the fastest Pokemon with access to Stun Spore which means it can even Paralyse Ground types. Along with Leech Seed, Encore, Reflect, Toxic, Synthesis, Sleep Powder, Swagger and Attract, this can be incredibly annoying to deal with. It works pretty well on defensive teams and it could do well on teams that like Paralysis spam.
Nidoqueen doesn't kill it with an Ice Beam so it threatens to be Stun Spored and then switch and heal up on something else. Same story with Electabuzz. Dodrio is also outsped by this.
Nidoqueen Ice Beam vs. Jumpluff: 255-300 (72.2 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Electabuzz Ice Punch vs. Jumpluff: 234-276 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Jumpluff is pretty passive outside of annoying things with status moves, however, and is walled by things like Qwilfish, Slowbro/King, anything that doesn't really care about being statused.
 

Earthworm

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Now that the UU tournament is over (even though I didn't win this time) I will post my thoughts about the UU metagame and the viability rankings. I have kind of basically tried to impart all of my knowledge about GSC UU in one post besides posting teams/compositions, so I hope it is useful to those experienced with GSC UU to provide additional perspective and encourage discussion, and to those who have never touched GSC UU before and are browsing through this thread out of curiosity. GSC UU will be a part of another tournament that Diophantine will be hosting soon so hopefully people can enjoy the tier in that tournament too.

Also, I hope that people will disagree and debate with me about my proposed rankings. I have spent a lot of time considering and rearranging them over a period of several weeks, but I don't profess to be some kind of omniscient master of the tier, and I know that others with experience in the tier have their own opinions about what is strong that differ from mine.

If you can't be bothered to scroll through all of the below text, here is a link to a spreadsheet in which my proposed rankings are listed in the "pirate 2" column.

S Rank

Rank 1.
Nidoqueen
Nidoqueen is clearly the best Pokemon in the tier. It is very tanky while also hitting nearly every relevant Pokemon for a 3HKO, and those it misses out on are often put into range with Spikes up. Its coverage with EQ Thunder and Fire Blast is unmatched in the metagame. Being this strong of course means that teams in the tier are usually built with Nidoqueen in mind, but this has not been enough to ever result in Nidoqueen falling from its number one rank at the top of the tier.

Its moveset is nearly always the same due to its sheer effectiveness, which is EQ/Thunder/Fire Blast/Moonlight. In the past, Ice Beam/LK were more popular than Fire Blast/Moonlight, but as the metagame has developed, keeping Nidoqueen healthy has proven to be an effective strategy and the popularity of Restalk Slowbro/Granbull has substantially reduced the number of Lovely Kiss Nidoqueen one sees, and Fire Blast is arguably better to have against key sweeper Scyther and sometimes somewhat-threatening Pinsir. It also hits most Grass types harder (except Jumpluff, notably). The biggest downside to dropping Ice Beam is that Gligar becomes a fairly reliable wall against it, but Gligar often struggles to do anything against the behemoth that is Slowbro and is therefore not seen a whole lot.

Nidoqueen being the best Pokemon in the tier has a huge effect on the metagame, including making Fighting and most other Poison types almost completely irrelevant, reducing the effectiveness of Toxic and Thunder Wave on many Pokemon, substantially decreasing the viability of Electric types, and defining the important speed tiers of the tier.

Nidoqueen is significantly better than anything else in the tier, so I am proposing to remove the S+ tier and bump Slowbro down into A+, leaving Nidoqueen as the lone S rank Pokemon.

A+ Rank

Rank 2. Slowbro

Slowbro is also very clear in its position of rank 2. It is almost unbelievably tanky, with even attacks such as +6 Quagsire Earthquake usually failing to OHKO (86.2-101.5%, 10.3% chance). While it is very slow, that is just about the only problem it faces. Its Special Attack is as high as the special "sweepers" in the tier, and it has very strong reliable STABs with solid coverage in Surf and Psychic. Tack on Rest + Sleep Talk and it becomes a recovering, zero-downtime status absorbing super-tank. With both of its STAB attacks hitting Nidoqueen for a convincing 2HKO, and Thunder requiring high rolls and Spikes to 2HKO Slowbro in return, it is no wonder that Slowbro is a consistent presence on a large number of teams. At full health, it is generally a decent switch into the tier's prominent physical sweepers such as Granbull and Dodrio, and non-HP Bug Scyther (although Scyther has some potential tricks that can cause it problems). Its SpDef is also pretty decent, meaning Pokemon like Magmar, Arcanine, Feraligatr, etc cannot immediately force it out or make it think twice about switching in with their Super Effective attacks. These factors mean that some teams are forced to resort to forcing Slowbro to Rest or PP stalling it with their own tanky Psychic or Water type in order to handle it.

Strong Electric attacks do threaten Slowbro considerably, and Slowbro is often a key part of a team's defensive lineup against physical sweepers and Nidoqueen, so it does have to switch out of Pokemon like Thunder Mr. Mime, Thunder Gyarados, Magneton, Electabuzz, Ampharos, etc. However, while neither Ampharos nor Magneton have any problems finding opportunities to switch in, they really struggle to threaten the omnipresent Nidoqueen with anything in their learnset (for some perspective, I have seen Tri Attack Magneton as an attempt at doing something to the inevitable Nidoqueen switch). Slowbro can also typically hit these Pokemon for a fairly substantial amount when they switch in. Grass types that aren't part Poison can also force Slowbro out since they typically shrug off its attacks with relative ease and force it out one way or another.

In terms of move sets, Slowbro can stray from the plain Restalk STABs set by using Thunder Wave, which can make some of its counters think twice about switching in and potentially gain a large advantage. This comes at the cost of a substantial loss in coverage. Dropping Psychic means Qwilfish comes in and sets up Spikes at a lower cost, among other things. Dropping Surf gives Slowbro substantially lower PP to attack with, and allows potentially dangerous Psychic types in. Dropping either of these also gives Nidoqueen much better odds of taking you down while you are asleep. Dropping Sleep Talk and keeping Rest is not advisable in my opinion, however dropping both is okay if you have a good reason to do so (e.g. Zap Cannon is pretty strong). Losing the ability to sponge status attacks freely is a major downside, however.

While I have raved on about Slowbro, it has substantially more solid answers than Nidoqueen does, and if properly prepared for, can be taken advantage of much moreso than Nidoqueen can. For that reason, I am suggesting Slowbro be moved "down" to the top of A+.

Rank 3.
Scyther
Scyther is easily the most threatening sweeper in the tier, being very fast and having access to Swords Dance. It does not have powerful STAB attacks, but after a Swords Dance, there are few Pokemon it can't 2HKO. Its defenses are also better than one might expect, with Nidoqueen's probability to 2HKO it varying depending on whether it has Fire Blast, which hidden power Scyther is using, etc. Its standard coverage moves are Wing Attack and Hidden Power Ground, but it can also use Hidden Power Bug to hit some key Pokemon harder. In the fourth slot, the most popular option by far is Baton Pass, which can be used to make a reactive switch without boosts, or to pass its Swords Dance boosts to another Pokemon. What prevents this strategy from being completely broken is that there are no truly ideal receivers, with many of the options suffering from shared weaknesses with Scyther, coverage issues, or lack of speed or power to beat their regular counters, even with a +2 Attack boost. For this reason, Scyther is often more likely to sweep by itself than set up a sweep for a teammate.

A major factor that contributes to the power of Scyther is that most of the Pokemon that can withstand its attacks cannot hit it hard enough before it can set up. Electabuzz (33% of the time) and Ampharos can OHKO it with Thunder, but Electabuzz is OHKOed by +2 HP Ground and Ampharos takes around 70%, meaning it must be near full health to have a 70% chance at KOing. Having a Scyther in the back therefore often provides a decent chance at turning around a game regardless of what has happened before it sets up. The exception to this is when it faces a Haze Crobat, which is the closest thing to a hard counter in the tier.


BKC's Scyther setting up to sweep the last four of Bedschibaer's Pokemon in Week 2 of the UUPL.

In my opinion Scyther is a clear third rank Pokemon, the only reason for falling short of Rank 2 being the coverage issue it faces choosing between HP Ground and HP Bug (without which it can potentially have issues breaking through Slowbro).

Rank 4. Granbull

Granbull has a monstrous 120 base Attack, making its STAB Return one of the strongest physical attacks in the tier. This is usually coupled with Curse, boosting its damage to very high levels. Unfortunately, its SpDef stat is on the low side, which causes it to have issues when facing Slowbro, whose Surf 3HKOs it. However, its ability to use Restalk Curse effectively and its lack of weaknesses to Nidoqueen's attacks make it one of the favoured Nidoqueen responses.

There is also a lack of viable Normal resistant Pokemon in the tier, which helps cement its rank 4 status in the tier. Options are limited to Haunter, Magneton, Kabutops, Omastar, Shuckle, Sudowoodo, and Graveler. While none of these are unviable, Kabutops is not a reliable counter, Shuckle struggles to do anything against Nidoqueen and Qwilfish and can become set up fodder, Sudowoodo and Graveler are unpopular due to their very low SpDef and typing in a ground/water dominated tier, and Haunter/Magneton can be OHKOed by surprise HP Ground. Omastar and Shuckle are probably the most reliable counters.

Granbull's ability to switch into Nidoqueen with a degree of safety while also threatening to sweep unprepared or weakened teams are qualities that I believe make it worthy of Rank 4 in the tier.

Rank 5.
Slowking
Slowking is very similar to Slowbro but trades Defense for Special Defense. It still has many of the qualities that make Slowbro powerful in its powerful STAB attacks and access to Thunder Wave, plus its higher SpDef helps it combat Nidoqueen and other Psychic-types considerably better than Slowbro can. However, it is considerably worse at taking beatings from physical attackers.

Some people say that there is no reason to use Slowking over Slowbro and it should therefore be ranked in A- or elsewhere. However, not only does it fill a different niche due to its higher SpDef, it can also be used alongside Slowbro to give your team double super-tanks and have the best of both worlds. There are surprisingly few downsides to this thanks to Nidoqueen's ability to take on nearly all Electric-types and the amount of damage the Slow-twins can pump out against things that threaten them with their STAB attacks.

For this reason I suggest it be moved up to the bottom of A+.

A Rank

Rank 6. Hypno

Hypno's typing, high SpDef stat, and movepool make it one of the best support Pokemon in the tier. It gets both Hypnosis and Thunder Wave, can run a Restalk Psychic Seismic Toss set that is very difficult to take down and puts out decent damage against virtually everything in the tier, and sports few weaknesses to the most relevant types in the tier. While it does not like to switch into Nidoqueen's Earthquake when Spikes are on the field, it otherwise makes a decent switch into most special attackers and can set up screens and spread status for other sweepers. The threat of status makes it very difficult to switch offensive Pokemon into, and the lack of Electric weakness makes it one of the most reliable answers to the numerous Psychic-type Special attackers in the tier.

It fails to reach A+ on this list because of its slightly lacking physical Defense stat and its slightly lacking Special Attack stat. However, it is still a very useful supporting Pokemon and a good choice when an answer to the many sweepers with Psychic + Electric coverage is needed.

Rank 7.
Electabuzz
Electabuzz is very fast, achieving a crucial speed tie with Scyther and sometimes (33% vs HP Ground) OHKOing it with Thunder. Whereas many Electric types are slower than and fail to hit for more than 33% against Nidoqueen, Electabuzz achieves a much more substantial 40% average with Psychic and lives the Earthquake in return, forcing Nidoqueen on the defensive. It also handily outspeeds and OHKOs Dodrio. Its high SpA, Speed, and coverage make it one of the biggest Special attacking threats in the tier. It can even use Pursuit to trap Haunter or damage a switching Slowbro, at the expense of having to drop Cross Chop.

One problem it faces is finding opportunities to switch in against Restalk Slowbro/Slowking, from which it takes fairly substantial damage. Another problem is that it cannot do any meaningful damage to Ampharos. It can steal its Leftovers with Thief however, which better enables potentially wearing it down with Spikes and switches to Nidoqueen. It also sometimes runs into coverage issues between trying to cover all of Chansey, Jumpluff, Quagsire, Gligar, Magneton, etc.

Overall it is not as dominant as the Pokemon in the A+ tier, but still deserves high A rank for its ability to break through the majority of the S/A+ rank Pokemon.

Rank 8. Ampharos

I originally ranked Ampharos as a top 3 Pokemon in my previous thread about GSC UU, but I have now realised that using Ampharos provides Nidoqueen with far too many openings. Ampharos doubles as a specially defensive wall and also hits very hard with Thunder. Its Defense is also not too bad, which would in theory make it a very useful Pokemon if it weren't for Nidoqueen being the best Pokemon in the tier. Nidoqueen completely dominates Ampharos. The most Ampharos can possibly hope to do is set up a screen for its teammates when Nidoqueen inevitably makes its entrance immediately following Ampharos's appearance on the field. This comes at the cost of using Hidden Power at all, or the ability to use Restalk, but it's a lot better than nothing - Scyther behind Light Screen is incredibly dangerous.

While using Ampharos can sometimes result in a loss of momentum due to the opportunity served up to Nidoqueen on a silver platter, it is still valuable for its ability to totally wall Electabuzz, and it also provides a solid answer to the majority of special attackers in the tier, although it doesn't really enjoy repeatedly taking powerful Water attacks. It also does serious damage to Granbull with Thunder.

Despite its flaws, I suggest leaving Ampharos in A rank because of its positive qualities and defensive synergy with Nidoqueen and Slowbro/Slowking.

Rank 9.
Dodrio
Dodrio is quite fast and very powerful, but is a bit of a glass cannon, taking a lot of damage from most top tier Pokemon. Both Slowbro and Nidoqueen are capable of attempting a switch in, but if Dodrio lands a critical hit, they will be done for. Dodrio's coverage is very limited. There are few reasons to use Drill Peck (but on sets such as Thief, there aren't many better options), so Dodrio will mostly be spamming Normal attacks, with Hidden Power Ground for Haunter, Magneton, Kabutops, and Omastar. Double-Edge is the most powerful spammable attack and may be necessary for it to break through Slowbro and Nidoqueen, but the recoil can potentially turn 3HKOs into 2HKOs. Return also works fine, and is the preferred option alongside Endure Flail sets.

Due to its poor defenses and the fact that it is outsped by Scyther and Electabuzz, I think Dodrio deserves to be on the lower end of the A rank. It is a very powerful wall-breaker, but circumstances rarely grant it more than the ability to trade itself for something else.

Rank 10. Mr. Mime

Mr. Mime is one of the best leads in the metagame, outspeeding a lot of Pokemon and potentially getting a team off to a great start by landing Hypnosis on a Pokemon that doesn't want to take it and potentially stealing something else's Leftovers too. It has a lot of useful options such as Encore, Thunder Wave, and Barrier + Baton Pass, and hits reasonably hard with its STAB Psychic and Thunder against key Pokemon such as Nidoqueen, Slowbro, and Qwilfish. It can also add Fire Punch to cover Magneton. It also makes a solid choice for using Berserk Gene Baton Pass to Miracle Berry sweeper should that be your style of strategy, even having the option of Thiefing another item after the boost has been passed and utilised.


Lavos's Mr. Mime shutting down a sweep attempt in Week 4 of the UUPL, before later sweeping itself.

Although it was previously NU, Mr. Mime clearly did not belong there as it is a very effective UU Pokemon, effective enough to deserve the last slot in the A rank in my opinion.

A- Rank

Rank 11.
Qwilfish
Qwilfish plays a very major role in the UU metagame, easily being the best Spiker (ahead of Pineco and Delibird). Spikes are extremely useful in UU, and you will be disadvantaging yourself against certain team archetypes if you do not use them. However, against some teams, having a stronger Pokemon over Qwilfish will justify the lack of Spikes. Qwilfish typically can't do a lot of damage to enemy teams through its damaging moves, as it tends to want to get Spikes out and often will take a lot of damage in doing so, unless the opponent brings very passive Pokemon. In addition, Restalk Slowbro does not mind taking a Sludge Bomb or two. However, it speed ties with Pinsir and outspeeds Kabutops and can Haze away their Swords Dances, which means it can often fulfil the role of putting up Spikes and halting a sweep attempt simultaneously. Curse Qwilfish is also an option over Haze, as without Curse, Qwilfish will struggle to keep Spikes up against Restalk Rapid Spin Blastoise. Teams without Restalk Slowbro or Blastoise will likely need to take a decently powerful attack from Qwilfish before disposing of it. Importantly, Qwilfish outspeeds and can 2HKO Nidoqueen with Hydro Pump, which often leads to mindgames when the two face each other.

Generally, any Pokemon made ineffective by Qwilfish loses a lot of viability in the metagame, since people stick Qwilfish on their team without it necessarily synergising well, and look for any opportunity to send it in. This is a major contributing factor to the low viability of Pokemon such as Shuckle, Victreebel, Chansey, Politoed, Pinsir, etc.

However, as the Pokemon itself does not typically KO anything and is assigned low value other than for getting Spikes up (if Spikes are up it will be the first Pokemon sacrificed), I suggest moving it down to the top of A- rank.

Rank 12. Haunter

Haunter is the only viable Ghost type in the tier, and is particularly valuable for its ability to wall and threaten Granbull and other mono-Normal attackers. It has a high SpAtk stat and Psychic + Thunder coverage enables it to do enough damage to the top tier Pokemon that it can sometimes open up a game. It has further tools at its disposal as well, including Hypnosis, Explosion, Thief, Destiny Bond, and even Mean Look / Perish Song.

Unfortunately, aside from Mono-Normal attackers, it does not typically have many switch in opportunities, aside from perhaps Qwilfish. It is also walled (apart from Explosion) by Ampharos and Hypno, and does not match up favourably with other mono-Psychic types (unless it has Shadow Ball). So while it is capable of doing a lot of damage to teams, it can be hard to find the opportunity needed to do so.

I suggest keeping Haunter near the top of the A- rank.

Rank 13.
Kabutops
Kabutops is a Pokemon with useful typing and speed and a decent movepool. It outspeeds Nidoqueen and 2HKOs with Hydro Pump or +2 Hidden Power Ground and OHKOs Scyther with STAB unboosted Ancient Power. Its Normal resistance gives it some useful switch in opportunities against Granbull and Dodrio, which some teams are often otherwise sorely lacking. If Kabutops comes out with the right timing, with a bit of luck it can pull off a sweep.


Bomber.'s Kabutops preparing to finish off Kaori in Week 4 of the UUPL.

However, it is fairly flimsy, needs Slowbro to be weakened before it can realistically attempt a sweep, and is outsped by numerous special attackers with Electric attacks. On top of that, Qwilfish loves to switch into Kabutops, Haze its Swords Dance, put up Spikes, and give it a parting Hydro Pump before going down.

Kabutops deserves to rise to the middle of A- from its current B rank in my opinion. Even if it can't always sweep, it tends to be able to put a solid dent in the enemy defenses that allows other sweepers to sweep in its stead.

Rank 14. Magneton

Magneton has unique typing in the metagame and a stellar Special Attack stat. Like several other A- Pokemon, it is mainly valuable for its Normal resistance, although in Magneton's case it doesn't really help against Dodrio due to the ubiquity of Hidden Power Ground. In a metagame with fewer HP Ground Scythers and Dodrios, it might even be close to A rank material, but being Nidoqueen fodder can only get you so far realistically. It is also handy to have against Mr. Mime and Kadabra, who often forgo Fire Punch. However, Electabuzz is more likely to cover it than not.

Being almost a hard counter to mono-Normal Granbull makes Magneton worthy of the middle of A-, despite its flaws.

Rank 15.
Jumpluff
Jumpluff is excellent in GSC UU, having plentiful switch in opportunities and being a very effective set-up preventer, status spreader, and switch-forcer. In particular, the fact that it outspeeds Scyther and can lock it into Swords Dance or hit it with Stun Spore is incredible for its usefulness levels. Along with Hypno, it is one of the premier supporting Pokemon in the metagame.

It does sometimes require prediction to use effectively, and loses pretty much all of its effectiveness if it ever takes Paralysis itself. However, Ice moves are getting rarer and rarer, with Electabuzz these days sometimes forgoing Ice Punch, and most Nidoqueen dropping Ice Beam for Fire Blast, which still hurts but can allow Jumpluff to trade the hit for status or regain its health with Leech Seed. It does allow Qwilfish in if it drops Sleep Powder for the arguably superior Reflect, with which it can switch into basically any of the physical set-up Pokemon bar Victreebel and prove to be an effective answer. It is also a pain in the ass for Baton Pass teams.


Earthworm's Jumpluff holding off Century Express's Scyther just long enough in the Semifinals of the GSC UU Tournament.

It certainly does not belong in C rank like the current listing says, and I believe it deserves the A- rank having both used it and seen it used extensively.

Rank 16. Gyarados

Gyarados is quite a solid Pokemon, having solid bulk across the board as well as decently high speed and Attack stats. It can either be a bulky attacker with highly threatening coverage (HPump/Thunder/D-E/HP Ground) or it can be a Roaring tank. It tanks Slowbro's attacks fairly effectively and 3HKOs with Thunder, 2HKOs Nidoqueen with its faster HPump and is not OHKOed by Thunder in return, and hits basically everything hard other than Grass-types with its coverage. HP Flying is another solid option on it, outright 2HKOing Scyther while +2 Wing Attack does not 2HKO in return, and threatening the grass types such as Jumpluff and Bellossom more effectively.

Unfortunately, it is outsped by Qwilfish and takes a hefty chunk from Sludge Bomb. It also hates risking Poison and other status. It also struggles to 3HKO Granbull, having only a 35% chance at KOing from full health before even factoring in accuracy. Apart from these flaws, Gyarados is often a useful addition to a team that needs a bulky wallbreaker.

I think Gyarados deserves to maintain its position in A-.

B+ Rank

Rank 17.
Bellossom
Bellossom's lack of Poison typing is a great boon for it, not only allowing it to take on Slowbro/king, but also letting it come in on Earthquakes from Nidoqueen. It is very useful in its ability to wall a lot of special attackers, and threatens Paralysis against anything that would try to take advantage of it. It has numerous viable set options available to it, including a Leech Seed set, a Sleeper set, or a SD Return set that lets it spread Stun Spore against a wider variety of Pokemon.

The main drawback that it has when compared to Victreebel or Vileplume is the weakness to Poison attacks, although apart from Qwilfish's Sludge Bomb, they aren't too common.

Bellossom competes with Jumpluff for its slot as status-spreading defensive Grass-type, and comes up slightly short, but still deserves the top of B+.

Rank 18. Sandslash

Sandslash is one of the tier's most powerful sweepers, with a high Attack stat and access to Swords Dance. It is another beneficiary of Nidoqueen's switch to Fire Blast, as it takes little from Earthquake. It will also benefit greatly if Ampharos remains common and stops using Hidden Power Ice in favour of Light Screen. Its +2 EQ 2HKOs Slowbro in exchange for most of its HP from Surf, which is crucial in enabling teammates to sweep. +2 Scyther also fails to 2HKO it, and it takes around 80% of Scyther's HP with Rock Slide.

Qwilfish outspeeds it and threatens to do a lot of damage with Hydro Pump, and Slowbro does up to 97% with Surf. In addition, it often struggles to find switch in opportunities due to its low base HP. Lastly, Bellossom will potentially wall it if it chooses to use Body Slam or Substitute over a Super Effective Hidden Power.

Overall, Sandslash should remain a high B+ Pokemon in my opinion.

Rank 19.
Piloswine
Piloswine has a high attack stat and a solid STAB Earthquake with unique typing that gives it immunity to Electric without being weak to Ice. It was quite good when Nidoqueen didn't use Fire Blast much, but nowadays its niche is more limited. It is still useful as a Roarer, and can take a hit or two from some threatening Pokemon and either hit them back pretty hard or Roar them out, but it struggles to do lasting damage to Slowbro unless it can predict its entry and Roar it out with Spikes up first. Other popular Water-types also pose problems for it. A major issue it faces is that it cannot use a Restalk set without dropping something crucial to its effectiveness. It is therefore typically more effective to just use Toxic or Protect in the last slot. It can also use Body Slam.

I think Piloswine is a bit lacking and deserves to be dropped to B+. I suggest placing it in the middle of B+.

Rank 20. Politoed

Politoed is similar to Vaporeon in OU, utilising Growth to boost its Special Attack and then attempting to sweep with its STAB Surf. I thought this had great potential when I first started playing the tier, but it seems to be difficult to pull off in practice, largely due to Qwilfish being very common. Slowbro also does annoying chunks with Psychic and Nidoqueen hurts it considerably with Thunder. It can use more offensive sets with Hypnosis and Hidden Power Electric, which can sometimes blow holes in the opponent's team for other Pokemon to take advantage of. It can also attempt to run a similar set to AA Vap in OU by using Amnesia, but this leaves it a sitting duck against the tier's many physical sweepers when it is forced to Rest, so requires very particular circumstances to pull off. It can also use LK Belly Drum without having the Psychic weakness Poliwrath has.

Politoed's strong potential coupled with its practical flaws leads me to think it deserves to stay in B+.

Rank 21.
Pinsir
Pinsir has one of the highest attack stats in the tier, and is certainly a threat to be fearful of. It is lacking in strong STAB attacks but can hit just about anything hard with Double-Edge (or another Normal attack)/HP Bug (or Ground)/Submission coverage. It speed ties Qwilfish, which is not ideal but is better than being outsped, which would severely hurt its viability. Unfortunately, many Nidoqueen are using Fire Blast, which Pinsir struggles a lot against. A common theme when using Pinsir is to pair it with Gligar, which tends to wall Ice Beamless Nidoqueen effectively, whereas Pinsir is one of the very few Pokemon that can use Ice Beam Nidoqueen as set-up bait. Another very major downside to Pinsir is that Scyther outspeeds it and does upward of 42% with Wing Attack. Pinsir has often already taken damage coming in (for example against Nidoqueen) so this often leads to it getting outsped and 2HKOed. Its +2 Body Slam is also not a reliable 2HKO on Scyther.

Given its flaws and potential, I suggest Pinsir remain at the bottom of B+.

Rank 22. Blastoise

Blastoise is often proclaimed by Jorgen to be a very good UU Pokemon, but in reality it has a very limited subset of roles that it is effective at in my experience. It is indeed useful for its ability to outspeed and hammer Nidoqueen with a STAB SE Surf, but it lacks staying power unless it uses Restalk like the other bulky waters, and it lacks power compared to Slowbro. Should it choose to use Roar, it will most likely end up taking a powerful hit from Scyther or Girafarig as it uses it, and will not last much longer beyond that. It can use a somewhat decent Restalk Rapid Spin set which is useful on some defensive builds, but beyond that struggles to find a niche. The Restalk Rapid Spin set can be quite effective against the more common Haze Qwilfish, easily PP stalling Sludge Bomb and keeping Spikes off the field, but is not nearly as useful if facing the Curse variant.

I would suggest lowering Blastoise to the bottom of B+. While it has potential, it has a limited niche and is overshadowed by Slowbro/Slowking despite its useful speed tier.

B Rank

Rank 23.
Kadabra
Kadabra is quite a powerful Special Attacker, having the equal highest SpA stat in the tier. Its Psychics dish out a lot of damage to unprepared teams, and its high speed allows it to effectively utilise Encore against various set up threats. It speed ties Scyther, meaning it has a decent chance of switching into Swords Dance and nullifying the threat in a desperate situation. It can also create pressure against enemy Psychic types which it can force to lock into Psychic and then Recover off the damage. However, its best Electric attack is Thunderpunch which does not hit Slowbro/Slowking as hard as Mr. Mime's Thunder, and its physical Defense is among the worst in the tier, taking ridiculous amounts from attacks such as Granbull's Return should it mispredict. This also limits its effectiveness against Nidoqueen severely. Hypno, Ampharos, and sometimes Magneton are also fairly effective at walling it.

Due to its fairly large flaws, I recommend dropping Kadabra to the top of B rank.

Rank 24. Chansey

Chansey is another Pokemon with decent potential and utility in the tier, but the ubiquity of Qwilfish severely hurts its potential. If it wants to use Heal Bell, which is what it is often used for, it is essentially limited to using a set as ineffectual as Light Screen Toxic Softboiled or Curse Double-Edge Softboiled. It otherwise can use a variety of useful attacks such as Counter, Thunder Wave, and Seismic Toss, however it will not be able to cure status and is fairly predictable and can potentially be PP stalled. It is often an addition to teams attempting to use the most defensive and passive Pokemon in the tier, which tends to eventually get set up on and swept by Scyther or broken by Nidoqueen and Spikes. In some situations, teams have no answer to Curse Chansey and it becomes a realistic win condition, but there are plentiful answers to it on most teams such as Curse Granbull, various SDers, Qwilfish, etc.

Due to its numerous flaws I agree with the current B ranking.

Rank 25.
Lanturn
Lanturn is quite viable in the tier, mostly by virtue of its usefulness against Slowbro while simultaneously threatening Nidoqueen. It takes surprisingly little from Nidoqueen's Earthquake and 2HKOs with Surf if Spikes are up (71% chance without), meaning that Nidoqueen is taking a risk by switching in. A Surf/Thunder/Restalk set is quite effective coverage, although its damage output against Hypno is limited, and it cannot do damage to Grass-types beyond paralysing them. Nidoqueen is also a lot less fearful of switching in while it is asleep, so it should be manoeuvred somewhat carefully to avoid it taking too much from Slowbro's Psychic + Spikes on the switch ideally. Lanturn does need to be paired with additional support for Normal-types, as its Defense stat is quite low, so many teams will simply opt to use Slowbro instead, even if it means having to PP stall the enemy Slowbro at times.

Lanturn deserves to maintain its solid B ranking due to its niche against the top Pokemon.

Rank 26. Gligar

Gligar has a decent niche in the tier with a few valuable traits and assets at its disposal. The most obvious useful trait is its immunity to the Ground+Electric combo Nidoqueen always has, although it is one-shot by Ice Beam. Luckily, most Nidoqueen are currently forgoing Ice Beam for better coverage against Pinsir, Bellossom, and Piloswine. It makes a great Counter user, being able to withstand a +6 Quagsire HP Rock and OHKO back, as well as +6 Scyther Wing Attack. It does need to be wary of Scyther passing its boosts to Dodrio or Granbull though, as they can OHKO it with boosted STAB Normal attacks. It can also use Thief to assist in taking down the obvious Slowbro switch in, since it doesn't do much with its Earthquake.


Sage's Gligar safely disposing of a very threatening looking Pinsir after blanking a Fire Blast Nidoqueen in the UUPL Finals.

Overall Gligar is a solid B rank Pokemon due to its niche in countering some top threats, even though it usually does not create much pressure itself.

Rank 27.
Quagsire
Quagsire has unique and useful typing, including decent HP and Defense, and middling Attack. It is the usual Baton Pass recipient of choice due to its access to Belly Drum and a powerful STAB attack, meaning it can utilise the 999 Attack stat better than other potential receivers such as Poliwrath. It can also utilise a Curse set, which can work quite well if Slowbro, Granbull, and any Grass-types are out of the picture. However, it cannot effectively use Restalk and has no instant recovery, which are quite necessary to be effective as a slow Pokemon in the metagame. This severely limits its niches to being a BP recipient and attempting a sweep with screens or paralysis spreading. In addition, even if it has +2 Speed and +6 attack, its sweep can be cut short by Slowbro which usually survives from full health, Crobat which can outspeed and Haze all of its boosts, Electrode which can outspeed and Explode on it, and Gligar which can live any of its physical attacks and OHKO it with Counter.

Due to its effectiveness as a BP recipient, Quagsire deserves B rank.

Rank 28. Omastar

Omastar has a solid niche as a normal resistance with a high SpA stat. It is one of the few Granbull answers that not only safely beats the Cursetalk set, but also safely handles the HP Ground variant. It has a few different options for sets, ranging from Haze, to HP Electric Restalk, to Ice Beam or a Rock-type attack for Scyther and Grass types, and can even use Sandstorm. All of its variants are safely handled by Slowking, however, and if it wants to use Restalk it must sacrifice one of its coverage moves, which may lead to it being walled by Slowbro or failing to 2HKO Scyther.


HSA's Omastar taking on even a SD Recipient Granbull's attacks with a degree of comfort in the GSC UU Tournament Finals.

Overall Omastar is a very solid option and deserves B rank (it is currently not even listed). There are numerous replays in which players use it effectively from the GSC UU tournament, including the winner HSA.

Rank 29.
Girafarig
Girafarig is similar to Mr. Mime in terms of base stats, trading some Speed and SpAtk for slightly better physical Defense. However, its movepool is quite bare in comparison. The niche it excels in is Baton Passing Agility and Amnesia, which it is the clear best at in the tier. Its decent Speed and SpAtk allows it to threaten some of the top tier Pokemon with Psychic and Thunder, and it also a threat to most Hazers and Roarers, meaning it is quite difficult to handle for many teams. There are a few very solid BP recipients in Quagsire and Poliwrath/Politoed which can potentially sweep if provided an Agility boost. However, it is a fairly high risk strategy and if it backfires, it can result in an outright loss. Exploders and Pokemon with Encore pose a particularly major threat to these strategies, although they can be mitigated somewhat by using Lovely Kiss Poliwrath/Politoed.

Girafarig, being the premier Baton Passer in the tier, deserves the last spot in B rank.

B- Rank

Rank 30. Crobat

Crobat's main niche is hard countering Scyther. It does not pose much of a threat to anything, and the most effective set I've used on it has been Confuse Ray HP Flying Haze Screech. It also outspeeds Agility boosted Quagsire and walls Victreebel, which is helpful. I could also see it using Mean Look or Thief. It is pretty useless against most other Pokemon.

Due to the extremely high threat level of Scyther, I believe Crobat deserves to be at the top of the B- rank.

Rank 31.
Victreebel
Victreebel is unfortunately outsped and 2HKOed by Fire Blast Nidoqueen, outsped and gets Hazed by Qwilfish, 2HKOed by Slowbro/Slowking, is outsped and takes a lot of damage by the many Psychic types in the tier, is outsped and 2HKOed by Scyther, hates getting paralysed by the Grass-types it would otherwise use as set up bait, and has moveslot issues where it wants to use all of SD Sludge Bomb Sleep Powder Giga Drain HP Ground and Synthesis. Otherwise, it could make a potentially threatening sweeper with its SD + Sleep Powder combination.

With sufficient support, good timing, and a favourable team matchup, Victreebel can potentially be effective and take out something with Sleep Powder and its SD boosted attacks, but its numerous flaws unfortunately leave me no choice but to recommend a B- ranking.

Rank 32. Arcanine

At 555 BST, Arcanine has the highest base stats in the tier. However, as usual Fire typing is not particularly good in the tier. Nevertheless, with high stats all around, a decently powerful STAB Fire Blast, and Crunch for Slowbro (which hits for 34-40%), Arcanine has a small niche in the tier. Its main niche is to use a Restalk set and take on medium strength Special attackers that aren't Water-types, such as Mr. Mime and Electabuzz. It also counters Pinsir and non-HP Ground Scyther, and its Fire Blasts are strong enough that Nidoqueen does not take them comfortably considering Arcanine outspeeds it. It is also capable of using a Roar set. Obviously it also takes on Grass-types easily.

Arcanine deserves a spot in the B- rank in my opinion.

Rank 33.
Magmar
Magmar is similar to Arcanine but less tanky and slightly slower. To compensate, it gets Thief, Cross Chop, and Counter, which make it slightly better positioned for wall-breaking than Arcanine, but otherwise it is inferior. It relies on ThunderPunch to hit Slowbro and Slowking, which is not as strong an option as Pokemon like Mr. Mime or Haunter get.

While arguably worse than Arcanine, it still deserves B- due to its decent damage output.

Rank 34. Shuckle

One of the very few Pokemon that can switch into anything Nidoqueen can muster is Shuckle. It has amazing defenses and typing, but struggles to do any damage and has an inconvenient weakness to Water, one of the most dominant types in the tier. If it manages to PP stall threats, it can eventually stall out opponents long enough to either allow teammates to take advantage, or set up a Rollout sweep, but this is difficult to achieve in practice where there are powerful set up sweepers like Scyther, Kabutops, and Sandslash patiently waiting for an opportunity.

It certainly has a niche but is hard to fit on teams without giving up momentum. For this reason I believe it should be a low B-.

Rank 35.
Electrode
Electrode is very one-dimensional. It makes a cursory attempt at spreading paralysis with Thunder Wave, sets up a screen or two, then explodes. If the explosion is not caught by a Normal-resist, it has usually effectively done its job, which due to its low Attack stat, can be as little as simply lowering Nidoqueen's HP by 70% to allow high pressure sweepers or Baton Pass users the opportunity they need to set up sweeps. It is a high-risk high-reward Pokemon but is effective at what it does. Unfortunately it is fairly predictable.

I think Electrode should remain at the bottom of B- rank.

Rank 36. Vileplume

Vileplume is very similar to Victreebel but with better defenses, however it doesn't do many things particularly well, being mostly outdone by Bellossom. It makes a decent paralysis spreader. It has numerous flaws but is 2HKOed by far fewer Pokemon than Victreebel.

I haven't really found a good niche for Vileplume that isn't better done by something else, so perhaps it should be a bit lower, but for now I am suggesting the bottom of B- by virtue of having decent options available to it.

C+ Rank

Rank 37.
Wigglytuff
Wigglytuff is largely outclassed by Granbull, which packs a much, much more powerful unboosted punch. It does have a marginally better ability to take special attacks though, which gives it a small niche. It can also be used alongside Granbull such that Granbull can be used to remove the opponent's Normal answers before it is revealed. It might work with either Cursetalk or Curse Thunder.

Wigglytuff requires specific circumstances and justification to be viable in UU, so deserves to be in C+ in my opinion.

Rank 38. Lickitung

Lickitung is a slightly worse Curser than Wigglytuff, and a much worse Curser than Granbull. However, it has access to SD, Body Slam, and Belly Drum. Belly Drum Lickitung is difficult to pull off effectively, but SD can potentially work pretty well. It is still weaker than +1 Curse Granbull, but Body Slam's paralysis infliction can arguably give it a small niche.

Lickitung is probably decent enough to deserve a C+ ranking.

Rank 39.
Pikachu
Pikachu is very powerful but extremely flimsy and requires very specific circumstances to be effective. It is very hard to send in safely against competent players, especially since most Rest users have Sleep Talk. It has issues getting past enemy Electric types and is highly prediction reliant, especially if facing Grass-types. However, it is capable of sweeping under the right circumstances.

Pikachu deserves a C+ ranking in my opinion.

Rank 40. Poliwrath

Poliwrath is a worse Politoed. Fighting typing gives it annoying weaknesses to Psychic and Flying and contributes virtually nothing. It has access to STAB Submission or HP Fighting, but not only is Fighting STAB is incredibly bad in this tier, Submission's recoil is also very unwelcome on a Belly Drum set, and HP Fighting is barely stronger than EQ or Return. The only thing it has going for it is slightly stronger unboosted attacks and slightly higher Defense than Politoed.

I have (probably generously) chosen to recommend C+ for this.

Rank 41.
Feraligatr
Feraligatr has fairly high stats, but its movepool and typing fails to distinguish it from other superior Water-types. It does have Crunch and Surf, meaning it poses a threat to the combination of Slowbro and Nidoqueen, plus it has access to Earthquake, Rock Slide, Ice Beam, and Roar for various other top Pokemon. It obviously cannot use any recovery moves if it wishes to have sufficient coverage to be viable, so it operates similarly to Gyarados, however the lack of Thunder and Spikes immunity are very inconvenient, and it also struggles to deal enough damage to Psychic-types with high SpDef like Hypno and Mr. Mime. It does outspeed and 2HKO Nidoqueen, but is outsped by Qwilfish and will not last long should it fall victim to any form of status.

Feraligatr is not unusable and therefore deserves its spot at the bottom of C+.

C Rank
Rank 42. Weezing

Weezing basically has one thing going for it in UU, which is its powerful Explosion. It really struggles to find switch-in opportunities against most of the tier, and once in it is basically forced to explode within a couple of turns. It only really has decent utility when facing Grass-types, where it might find itself with the ability to switch in a few times before having to pull the trigger. However, its Explosion will probably KO anything that doesn't resist it. It does at least have a fairly powerful Thunder up its sleeve to threaten Slowbro and Qwilfish.

I suggest making it the first Pokemon in the C rank.

Rank 43.
Flareon
Flareon has a single niche, which is Growth passing. It is absolute garbage at doing that without first receiving a speed boost from another Pokemon due to Qwilfish simply coming in and using Haze. If you can first weaken Qwilfish and then pass Flareon an Agility boost with Girafarig, it may then be able to pull off a Baton Pass to a powerful special attacker which could lead to a sweep. However, that is very hopeful in a metagame that is already somewhat fearful of Baton Pass.

Flareon should stay down in C rank.

Rank 44. Graveler

Graveler has a strong Explosion and fairly powerful STAB attacks. It also has access to Rapid Spin, but must drop Rock Slide to use it. Graveler's downfall is its absolutely awful SpDef stat, which is compounded by its very poor typing in terms of taking Special attacks. It fortunately does outspeed Slowbro though, so it can often pull off an impactful Explosion (84.2 - 98.9%). It also has access to Counter to potentially try to pull off a two-for-one, although it is again illegal with Rapid Spin.

Graveler has a decent enough niche that it deserves C rank, despite its glaring weakness to Special attacks and Earthquake.

Rank 45.
Pineco
Pineco is the second-best Spiker in GSC UU, having access to a decently strong Explosion as well as Rapid Spin. Virtually every viable Pokemon in the tier can 2HKO it and it is slower than even Slowbro, but it still poses a threat just by having Spikes and Explosion together, with Rapid Spin being a bonus for playing it particularly well. Qwilfish is much more valuable to a team all things considered though, being able to get Spikes off much more reliably and being a frustrating opponent for a considerable number of potential threats.

Pineco is viable enough to be included in C rank.

Rank 46. Raticate

Raticate is fairly quick and is not weak to Electric like Dodrio, plus it has access to Thunder for Slowbro. It makes a decent all-in Pokemon to pass SD to with Scyther with a Body Slam/Thunder/Hyper Beam/HP Ground or Super Fang set, mainly because it does not share the Electric weakness with Scyther.

Raticate is surprisingly decent (once it receives a Swords Dance) and probably deserves low C rank.

Rank 47.
Raichu
Raichu would probably be a decent C+ Pokemon but unfortunately Surf and Encore are incompatible. Without that combination, it does not pose nearly as much of a threat to Nidoqueen, and it already struggles to break (and is competing for a slot with) Pokemon like Ampharos, Electabuzz, Magneton, Bellossom, etc. It is also substantially worse at using a Restalk set than a more tanky Pokemon like Lanturn.

That said, Thunder and Surf is pretty good coverage in the tier in general, so it deserves a spot in C rank.

Rank 48. Poliwhirl

Poliwhirl has worse stats than Politoed and Poliwrath in all stats except Speed. However, Speed is a very important stat, so Poliwhirl actually does have a small niche in the tier with its LK Drum set.

Unfortunately, there are numerous threats it does not outspeed that can hit it fairly hard or otherwise incapacitate it, so it lands at the bottom of C rank.

Rank 49.
Sudowoodo
Sudowoodo has pretty good physical defensive stats but fairly low SpDef. It is a decent answer to Normal-types in general, and can potentially Selfdestruct on something useful when the Normal-type is no longer deemed a threat, or that Pokemon is blocking a potential sweep from something else. However, it matches up awfully against many of the top Pokemon in the tier, with even Scyther being able to simply BP its Swords Dance boost to a Ground-type.

Sudowoodo is not that bad but is not better than the bottom of C rank.

C- Rank

Rank 50. Dunsparce

Dunsparce is almost strictly inferior to the other mono-Normal types in the tier. The only useful unique thing it has going for it seems to be Glare, which is a pretty strong move but does not fit on a Cursetalk set. It doesn't even get Body Slam. However, it is still fairly bulky and can attempt to spread paralysis.

While there's no very good reasons to choose it over another Normal-type, it is probably stronger than the rest of C- so it would be misleading to list it lower than this in my opinion.

Rank 51.
Xatu
Xatu's stats are fairly poor, and Flying-typing does not really help it much, meaning other Psychic-types are far superior. Its movepool is also quite lacking. It can be somewhat annoying with Thief and Psychic though, and it is fairly fast. It might actually be best off using Confuse Ray or Swagger and Night Shade.

Xatu is deserving at least of a slot in C- rank.

Rank 52. Persian

Persian is really fast and has Normal STAB, but has a fairly low Attack stat. It is probably decently effective at using Swagger + Psych Up. It also has Hypnosis. However, it is fairly flimsy and will need a lot of luck to get past the usual Normal counters.

Persian has enough of a niche to deserve the last spot in C-.

D+ Rank

Rank 53.
Primeape
Primeape is fairly fast (not faster than Scyther or Dodrio) and can use Meditate and Reversal, but with Nidoqueen and Slowbro everywhere, it is probably not going to be very effective doing that. It is easily OHKOed by +2 Scyther Wing Attack. It can try to make something happen against Slowbro with Thunder, and it can potentially bait Nidoqueen into taking a Countered Earthquake, although it might not even be able to KO Nidoqueen after that. Any advantage that Primeape can muster is probably only going to come from its set not being that predictable.

Under very limited circumstances, Primeape may be able to land a crucial paralysis or something, so I suggest D+ rank.

Rank 54. Sneasel

Sneasel is very fast (quicker than Scyther), can steal items with Thief, actually counters some Psychic-types fairly well (although it will probably end up paralysed), and can try to cheese something with Counter or Screech or Swagger. Ice is not the worst attacking type, but it has an incredibly low base SpA. It really struggles to do anything against Water-types other than steal their Leftovers, which is a major flaw.

Sneasel's flaws leave it stuck in D+.

Rank 55.
Stantler
Stantler has a pretty high attack stat and a decent speed stat. It also has Hypnosis and Earthquake. However, its defenses are very bad and it doesn't get Body Slam, Hyper Beam, or anything at all to hurt Slowbro with, unlike other physical attackers that get Thunder. Its Earthquake is also not strong enough to 2HKO Nidoqueen. It might make a decent SD recipient from Scyther.

Stantler does not deserve higher than D+.

Rank 56. Ariados

Ariados is the only Pokemon that can trap pass in a tier that uses Haze moreso than Roar/Whirlwind to deal with Baton Pass. However, it's fairly likely that whatever is trapped will not allow the setting up of a sweeper than can sweep an entire team, and Ariados tends to take a lot of damage from most Pokemon so will probably require a screens slot as well.

Overall, while it is a viable strategy, the risk level is probably too high to justify classifying Ariados higher than D+.

Rank 57.
Fearow
This Pokemon is completely outclassed by Dodrio but if evaluated on its own merits of high Attack and Speed it is probably deserving of D+.

Rank 58. Octillery

This Pokemon is almost completely outclassed by Slowbro/Slowking, Politoed, etc. However, again it is probably deserving of D+ if evaluated on being a fairly powerful Water-type alone.

D Rank

Rank 59. Rapidash
Rapidash speed ties Scyther and has Hypnosis, but is hard countered by just about any Water-type among other things.

Rank 60. Ninetales
Similar to Rapidash but with better SpDef and HP, Roar, and is slower than Scyther.

Rank 61. Murkrow
This might be able to steal an item and Pursuit some Psychic type before dying.

Rank 62. Dugtrio
Dugtrio is very fast so if it can survive the hit coming in, it might make a decent recipient of Swords Dances if Slowbro is dead or not present on the opposing team.

Rank 63. Parasect
Parasect has very bad stats and typing but can spread status and stuff.

Rank 64. Seadra
Seadra has a decent SpA stat and Agility, so there may be times it can pull off a sweep. Probably not, though.

D- Rank

Mantine (can wall some Pokemon), Dewgong (can wall Pokemon and go for freezes), Hitmontop (has Rapid Spin and Counter and is somewhat tanky), Golduck (Water type with Hypnosis and Cross Chop), Hitmonlee (high Attack and decent movepool), Charmeleon (Belly Drum and outspeeds Nidoqueen)

------

Please post your thoughts. I consider everything from S to C- to be important to rank at least somewhat accurately, if we are going to be using this VR for the purposes of tiering GSC NU in the near future. I would not really be opposed to simply not listing D rank in the OP, or restricting it to the Pokemon in D+, since it is quite the stretch to consider anything ranked D and under viable.
 
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It also has access to Counter to potentially try to pull off a two-for-one, although it is illegal with both Rapid Spin and Rock Slide.
Just a little thing I saw, Counter + Rock Slide is legal since both are Gen 1 TMs, what isn't legal is Rapid Spin + Rock Slide/Counter since Spin is from the PCNY Event.

And overall, I'm quite happy with all the rankings and I don't have much to say. If we're going to re-do NU from this VR, I'd cut it off from C+(or C) because everything from S to B- are clear UU representants. C+ and below are mainly very niche mons or just directly outclassed by some other better Pokémon. (Like CurseMons, Poliw, the other electric types)
 

Earthworm

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Just a little thing I saw, Counter + Rock Slide is legal since both are Gen 1 TMs, what isn't legal is Rapid Spin + Rock Slide/Counter since Spin is from the PCNY Event.

And overall, I'm quite happy with all the rankings and I don't have much to say. If we're going to re-do NU from this VR, I'd cut it off from C+(or C) because everything from S to B- are clear UU representants. C+ and below are mainly very niche mons or just directly outclassed by some other better Pokémon. (Like CurseMons, Poliw, the other electric types)
Thanks for picking that up, I will edit it. I thought I checked it but I was quite tired when finishing the post.
 

Century Express

melodies of life
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis the defending GSC Circuit Champion
I'd like to make a list /that/ high, but since I've only played the most recent GSC UU tournament, i'm going to focus on the top-tier 'mons, and ignore some B | C Ranks, since I would focus more on theorymon than personal experience...

1. Nidoqueen
Although Nidoqueen has modest stats (but still good for UU standards), it's still awesome in this meta, and it's one of my favourite picks for a reason. I felt like Nidoqueen kinda acts in a different manner, regarding to switch-ins. Even though it doesn't have an amazing Atk / SpA, it has a near-perfect coverage. Thanks to its coverage, you can't rely on Ground-resists / immunities to check it at all, instead you need to use good stat-wise switch-ins like Slowking and Granbull (otherwise stuff like Gyarados and Jumpluff would be actually solid). One thing that I've noticed, is that Nido's checks are /kinda/ unidimensional (I think Granbull is probably the only exception), there's a lot of scenarios even when I faced Slowbroking / Hypno switch-ins, I wasn't finding myself in a terribly bad situation. It is actually the opposite stuff. Predicting a Thunder against a Amphy / Mag switch-ins to Slowbro, or straight EQing a Hypno forces them to Rest really often, and this is especially useful when you want to capitalize with another teammate, like providing a solid SD Scyther set-up scenario, for example. Although sometimes it's better to straight attack with Scyther, Nidoqueen can be a legit good recipient, so yeah... you don't want to face a +2 Nidoqueen. Defensively it's awesome too, since you can't punish it with Toxic / Thunder Wave from defensive answers, and it helps a bit with role compression, since it's one of the few good Electabuzz switch-ins.

2. Scyther
Maybe I'm stuck with an OU mindset, but I think it's really, really hard to create consistent Scyther counterplays. Unlike OU, you don't have a ton of good Steel-types, you don't have too many reliable phazers, and this is even more dangerous when you need to play around him or: 1) as an individual threat, or 2) as a BPer. Although the latter isn't still /that/ common (BP setups takes more turns than you want in practice, although it sounds invincible on theory). Sometimes the best way of checking it is pressing it proactively (keeping stuff like Nido / Granbull / Amphy on the field discourages greedy set-ups, while on the other side of the coin, you always need to be careful whenever to try to Rest with Slowbro or Hypno). Scyther doesn't have a good role compression, but its Speed tier + threat factor makes him a top-tier threat IMO.

3. Slowbro
In a (kind of) physically-oriented metagame, Slowbro stands out as the best gluemon IMO. Although Slowking more consistent against Mr. Mime and Nidoqueen, I think it's super important to consider some important benchmarks (Slowbro isn't 2HKO'd against +1 Granbull, it's barely 3HKO'd vs. Dodrio), and its overall stats are really good. Slowbro vs. Slowbro / King """stalemates""" happen sometimes because they're sometimes the only switch-ins against each other (although Ampharos is a good exception). So, even though Slowbro is defensively-oriented, it doesn't mean it's necessarily passive, thanks to its great stat distribution.

4. Granbull
One important factor that makes Granbull legitimately dangerous sometimes, is the lack of good Normal-resistances / immunities. With the exception of Magneton and Haunter, Slowbro is probably the only (standard-ish) reliable 'mon capable of checking Granbull, since Surf is a clean 3HKO, while +1 Curse doesn't 2HKO him. Although its SpD isn't good, he is one of the best Nidoqueen switch-ins, because it can check & threathen the potential switch-in, and this is one of the most important aspects in a ton of teams. It's not a good idea to over-rely in a Slowbro / King as your sole Nidoqueen check.

5. Dodrio
I could be biased on this one, but if I had to choose something to be really dangerous after a Scyther SD Pass, it would be Dodrio. But on the flipside, Dodrio is really frail, and it's really hard to do a good role compression (and pairing it with a Scyther forces you to for a ton of role compression for Granbull / Slowbroking / Nidoqueen), since both stack an important Electric / Ice-weakness, and on this regard, you don't want to be weak against Nidoqueen, but you don't want to be weak against Electabuzz or Mr. Mime either, so Dodrio has a notable cost-benefit on the teambuilding. Still, I think it's a really flexible threat in the mid- or late-game. This metagame lacks good Normal-resistances, and unlike Granbull, Dodrio can fuck with Magneton or Haunter switch-ins easily, and it has an awesome speed tier.

6. Slowking
Unlike Slowbro, Slowking can't be 2HKO'd by Nidoqueen's Thunder after Spikes, and it's more consistent against stuff like Mr. Mime and Haunter. Although I personally prefer to run Slowbro in a ton of my teams, I don't think Slowking is necessarily outclassed. Unlike Hypno, Slowking has a better stat spread, which is important against less-common (but still dangerous!) Mixed threats, like Gyarados and offensive Fire-types. In my experience, at least Slowking can create good sinergy complements with some Normal-resistances (stuff like Magneton or Kabutops can fix the Granbull weakness in a Slowbro-less team), and if you have space to run Granbull, now you have an extra insurance against Nidoqueen, which can give Slowking more flexibility thank Slowbro (e: you can run TWave or Toxic more comfortably, because unlike Slowbro you can play around STalk odds more comfortably against Nido with Slowking + Granbull).

7. Ampharos
It's really annoying when you give free switch-ins for one of the best (if not the best) Pokémon of the metagame, but Ampharos has some good attributes. I've been running Light Screen in the majority of my teams (because people run Moonlight more often than LK), and it's actually a very good teamplayer overall. With Light Screen, you can switch-in your Slowbro more reliably against Nidoqueen, and you can give a wonderful support for Scyther and Grabull. Unlike Magneton or Electabuzz, Ampharos can take on Slowbro / King without forcing stalemates (think of Slowbro vs. Slowbro scenarios), and with LS it can provide a solid backup against dangerous Special Attackers like Mr. Mime and Haunter, and it helps a ton in the matchup against Electabuzz. Even though it's fucked up real hard against Nido, it's a good Pokémon capable of creating good complements (Amphy + Nidoqueen gives you an extra reliance against opposing Electrics, Amphy + Slowbro can play more comfortably around Dodrio or Granbull, etc).

8. Hypno
Like Ampharos, it can create good complement / support for its teammates, because unlike Slowbro, it isn't afraid of Mr. Mime switch-ins (at least with a RestTalk set), and unlike Slowking, it doesn't have the natural disvantage against Electabuzz, and unlike Ampharos, it discourages Nidoqueen switch-ins. Although his Special Attack isn't necessarily wonderful, it can be lowkey annoying against some teams, because it's really hard to kill, at least, and between Thunder Wave, Hypnosis, or Screens, it can generate a lot of favourable scenarios for an appropriate set-up sweeper. Too bad he doesn't have a greater Def stat, making it sometimes shaky against Nidoqueen.

9. Mr. Mime
If you look carefully at the VR list, you can see that a team composed of the top mons (Nido, Slowbro, Scyther, Granbull) stacks a HUGE weakness against Mr. Mime, especially against teams featuring Qwilfish + top standard mons. IMO If you're running Slowking or Hypno as your gluemon, Mr. Mime should be the #1 reason, especially because of the 1-6 Sleep-turns threat generated by Hypnosis. Psychic + Thunderbolt + Fire Punch can punish almost everything not called Hypno or Chansey, making it really dangerous depending of the match-up. On the flipside, it doesn't have a good role compression (giving him a considerable cost-benefit), but other than that, I think he's one of the most versatile offensive threats, since he can BP, and this metagame doesn't have too many reliable checks / phazers against Mr. Mime.

10. Qwilfish
Qwilfish has the niche of being the main Spikes setter of the tier (ofc). But other than that, I think it kinda weak. Whenever you pair it with Nido / Electrics, it stacks too many Ground- and Psychic-weakness, and even though it can Haze some important set-up sweepers, he can only do it once or twice before fainting. Still, it's a good direct support for pretty much anything. With Spikes, Nidoqueen can reach a ton of important benchmarks against Slowbro and Hypno, gives you a ton of room to ouplay defensive mons, makes etc. Overall I don't think Qwilfish is a great 'mon, but Spikes kinda shape a good part of this metagame... so yeah.

My personal VR (with the S- and A-Rank mons) would be something like this:

S Rank

Nidoqueen

A+ Rank

Scyther
Slowbro
Granbull

A Rank

Dodrio
Slowking
Ampharos
Hypno
Mr. Mime
Qwilfish

A- Rank

Electabuzz
Magneton
Haunter
Blastoise
Gyarados
Sandslash

I put Electabuzz a bit lower, because he can find some uncomfortable matchups (like Nidoqueen + Hypno, or Nidoqueen + Ampharos teams), while Mr. Mime and Dodrio can play around a lot the majority of its checks, even though they don't help too much with the team sinergy (aka being glass cannons). I'm bit unsure about Blastoise, but outpacing Nidoqueen and Sandslash are important perks, and neither Slowbro or Slowking can accomplish that. In some teams, I don't think Rapid Spin is mandatory, sometimes the Reflect / Roar support are more important against Scyther + Nidoqueen answer in the same slot, although it might be shaky against both of them in practice :weary:

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Tbh I didn't play too many games with the B- / C- Ranks mons, but I kinda agree with Diophantine's Jumpluff / Quagsire noms. Although Leech Seed + Stun Spore forces a consistent stat spread, people often forget that Jumpluff lacks any offensive presence. I've used Jumpluff in a ton of my games in the most recent tour, and even though it's an awesome answer against Scyther / Girafarig + Spikes shuffler, it's kinda annoying when you don't have any offensive tools to make him more dangerous than a simple pivot. Although Quag can be played as a BP recipient, I don't think it's the only route. I've tested it with some dedicated support (w/HBell Granbull + smth to para spread like Hypno / Jumpluff), and it's not /that/ bad, since people rarely run Grass-coverage in this metagame. I think B-Rank is fine for both of them (and I would put Jumpluff on the top of the B Rank).

I think there's room to rank some niche Rock-type mons (e: Sudowoodo and Omastar) somewhere, the role compression against Granbull + Scyther + Dodrio is too good to ignore, and the former can take the advantage of the low Normal-resistances with Self-Destruct, while the latter doesn't invite Nidoqueen switch-ins, unlike other Normal-resists / immunities like Magneton and Haunter. Electrode didn't impress at all tbh. Although Boom + fast Speed tier (useful vs. Scyther and Dodrio!) is a good perk, his boom is too anemic, even against things that doesn't resist it. Maybe it could fit in a particular momentum-reliant team, but unlike other Electrics, Electrode barely provides a good role compression, I'd put it in C-Rank.

I still need to test some obscure stuff before theorymoning too much with them, but overall I think this tier is legitimately fun
 
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I think the top 5 looks good, I might switch Scyther and Granbull but I think it’s close enough regardless. other than that,

Ampharos: I think this mon should be moved down quite a few ranks, probably near where magneton is. I was really up on Ampharos when I first started looking at this tier due to its good bulk and strong thunders, but as you mentioned you get stopped short way too easily by Nidoqueens and I think you end up in a positioning disadvantage more often than not. I do like light screen, especially in combination with Slowbro, but I don’t think you really get to utilize the light screen + sweeper combination early in the game which is when you'll want Ampharos to put in the most work. Grounds don’t really fear coming into Ampharos, and light screen doesn’t feel that great on a rest talk set later in the game. I still think Ampharos is very good just not at the level of the other As.

Bellossom: I think Bellossom is very good and should be placed higher, right after Qwilfish. I disagree with you about Bellossom coming up short compared to Jumpluff. As far as strictly status spreading and seeding go I think Bellossom actually wins out due to its bulk and healing, Bellossom gets punished less from a bad prediction and you have a lot more opportunities to get in early game. Also Bellossom much more comfortably trades status, something that is curtains for Jumpluff. I think Jumpluff’s strength lies later game when the enemy is limited on options, and you not only have less predictions to make but also makes every compounding piece of status/disruption that much more powerful. Bellossom doesn’t do the kind of last ditch status vs a sweeper as well as Jumpluff does (outright loses to +2 hp bug scyther and pinsir) but early it seems like a mon that stops the enemy from starting to make holes in your team. After writing this I think maybe I’m overrating Bellossom idk.

I guess it makes sense that because I don’t rate Ampharos as highly I would rate Bellossom higher as it serves as a secondary electric check in addition to your Nidoqueen. Regardless I’m pretty confident that Ampharos should be lower and Bellossom a bit higher, even if not to the degree I first stated.

Girafarig: Maybe it’s just because I’m a little cheeser but I think you’re ranking this guy way too low. To start, I don’t think the movepool comparison with Mr. Mime is a very apt point to make. Even though it’s true Girafarig only has about 6 moves you would ever consider using, one of those moves is Amnesia and it blows any passing Mr. Mime could hope to do out of the water. Mr. Mime shouldn’t be passing barriers outside of full BP anyway. Barrier passing is honestly pretty awful, there’s just too many STAB Thunders, Surfs, and Psychics going around in UU and a lot of them are coming off of 100+ SpA to boot. The best ways of dealing with set up are to haze or encore it, which beats most passing anyway, or to use a tanky special attacker like Slowbro, Ampharos, or Omastar to trade blows, a trade most sweepers don’t want to take. Girafarig’s Amnesia passing on the other hand is stellar, both SD sweepers and Cursers love receiving an Amnesia because it lets them go toe to toe with the strong Sp attackers mentioned earlier. Passing an Amnesia to Nidoqueen also let you trade blows with whatever answer they throw at you until they have to rest, you don’t have to moonlight early, and you aren’t forced to switch out without healing up first. Additionally I think there’s a lot of potential in passing to some of these more middle ground fighters like Gyarados, Feraligatr, and Piloswine. I even hesitate to call what Girafarg does a niche because given his stats, Psychic + Thunder/Zap Cannon is strong regardless of any passing and is the backbone of all these psychic types (and buzz) anyway. This is to say nothing of agility passing which has a much more limited application but just as threatening as anything else as it’s not that tough to hide your Quagsire/Polis until you suss out your opponent’s options for dealing with that kind of threat.

Mr. Mime’s best quality is the immediate threat he brings early with his strong attacks and crippling utility, he can make the enemy to show a lot of their team early by threatening from several angles. Girafarig seems more of a mid game mon that you bring in to make more decisive plays. I think Girafarig deserves to be placed at least B+ right above Blastoise, if not higher near Piloswine.

Shorter opinions on other rankings

Sandslash: My immediate response to seeing Sandslash was that he was ranked too high, but I don’t have any experience vs him and never considered him for any teams I built. I guess my main aversion would be the ease of revenge killing him.

Chansey: I don’t have any issue with Chansey’s ranking I just want to say Lucky Punch is absolute bait never use it.

Omastar: I was originally going to suggest placing Omastar under Blastoise because I feel they accomplish similar things and have similar strength, but I’m not so sure anymore. Omastar was already on my radar before playing HSA, but that match proved his strength to me, and even though HSA didn’t use haze I think the resttalk haze set is the way to go. I would place him at least above gligar.

Blastoise: I don’t have a problem with the ordering of Blastoise but I think he should be at the top of B instead of the bottom of B+. I think Blastoise is better represented for his rapid spin niche grouped with B mons. I would also consider swapping Kadabra and Blastoise and maybe pushing Kadabra up to B+, mostly by virtue of it’s speed tier.

Electrode: B- seems like the right place for Electrode but I think it should be under Crobat. Even though Electrode is limited and somewhat predictable, he does his job so consistently I would feel comfortable going into a match that he would be useful in some way, certainly more than Shuckle and likely more than Victreebel and Arcanine as well.

I think Feraligatr at C+ should be the cutoff for NU, I could see it extending down to Pineco or Raichu as well but I think it would be good to give NU plenty of room for tiering.
 

Sage

Unbelievable
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
I wish I had time for a longer post right now but EWs is great so I'll just go over a couple issues I had with his rankings.

Slowking: down from 5 to 8-9 range.

While I don't doubt Slowking is a very potent Pokemon, I do think that's it's competition from Slowbro should force it down to a less meta definging spot. Yes, double slow builds do exist and can work. However, you are stacking weaknesses to things like HP bug Scyther or Pinsir, and Slowking does not act as a soft check to things like Granbull as well as Bro does. It does take on Psychic types better than Slowbro, a valuable niche. I think a position in the lower A rank would capture it's strengths better than an A+ ranking.

Qwilfish: from top of A- to bottom of A (no numerical change.)

I think Qwilfish is ranked correctly but being the best spiker in a tier where they're so good at helping you get crucial KOs, as well as having the neat coverage / utility that Qwilfish has, (Hydro Pump for Queen, Sludge Bomb and Curse to fish for Poison and threaten things like Chansey and Hypno, Haze as a emergency button) give it enough to be on par with some of the less specialized A ranks.

Kadabra: up from 23 to 20 (right in front of Politoed).

Kadabras utility on Psychic spam team, very powerful STAB, and access to great utility moves like Encore, Thief, and Thunder Wave make it very threatening in my opinion. I think it's power is enough to.eclipse it's frailty and make it the right choice on a good number of teams, and would want it to rise past the mid tier Water-types.

Electrode: Up from 35 to around 31 (Behind Crobat.)

A small rise for Electrode over some other niche threats like Shuckle and the Fire-types. While incredibly one dimensional, Electrode's niche of auicklt getting up screens and Exploding on a key tank like Nidoqueen or Ampharos is huge for the type of teams it is run on like Baton Pass, and a quick way to shift momentum in your favor. I think this niche is more appreciated than whatever the Fire-types bring, and Shuckle didn't see enough usage to be ranked above how consistently Electrode can do it's job.

Those are the major ones I can see on first / second read, there may be more but EW's list is an excellent starting point.
 

Earthworm

is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 6 Championis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion
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I am very glad to see others taking interest in the VR and I appreciate the additional perspectives.

re: Scyther above Slowbro or below Granbull
I don't think Scyther over Slowbro is a completely incorrect thing to say because they are totally different and are both the clear best in the tier at what they do. However, I personally think the sheer number of Pokemon Slowbro beats 1v1 and its ability to sponge all status pushes Slowbro above Scyther in the rankings. That is not to take anything away from Scyther though, it is easily the Pokemon most likely to open up a game or sweep through an entire team, and its list of counters is extremely short.

As for Scyther v Granbull, I think Scyther is clearly a stronger Pokemon in a high level UU game. Granbull is probably the Pokemon most likely to sweep the entire enemy team if facing an unprepared opponent, but counter-strategies against Granbull tend to be more reliable, or otherwise Granbull is praying for exactly the right Sleep Talk rolls or timely CHs. In games where it is hard-walled by a Magneton/Omastar/Haunter, it can actually end up as a liability, something which pretty much can't be said about Scyther at all (unless Scyther is paralysed, asleep etc). For that reason I think Scyther should definitely remain above Granbull.

re: Lowering Slowking's ranking from 5 to somewhere from 6 to 9
From my conversations with numerous UU players about this, most people seem to feel that Slowbro is superior and simply the better choice, therefore Slowking must be placed substantially lower than it. More people are accepting that it has a niche than before, but the sentiment seems to be that it should at the least drop out of A+. I will concede that it could potentially fit in better in A, located somewhere from the top of A to immediately above Mr. Mime, which would be between 5 (but in A rather than A+) and 9. However, I agree with the comments made by CE about situations where Slowking can be preferred over Slowbro. Even though I believe Slowking is stronger than the Pokemon it would be ranked under in A, I can admit that Slowbro tends to be the superior choice on most teams that choose to only use one of them.

re: Lowering Electabuzz's rank
I don't agree with lowering Electabuzz below Ampharos, Mr. Mime, or Qwilfish. The outspeeding Dodrio and the speed tie on Scyther are both very good for it, its coverage and power are both great, and it also has numerous support options like Light Screen, Thunder Wave, Pursuit, and Thief. It's possible to cheese Nidoqueen with Counter, even. It is strong enough to realistically break through almost anything that walls other special attackers if Spikes are up, except for Ampharos which can be almost completely dealt with through Nidoqueen. The same can't be said for Nidoqueen handling Electabuzz. Despite Electabuzz putting significant pressure on Nidoqueen with Psychic, I tend to see a lot of Nidoqueens try to take it on for fear of having to sacrifice something to its powerful Thunder, but this very often ends badly for the Nidoqueen. I will also say that when Ampharos is on the team, it can be almost a reflex to switch it into Electabuzz due to the tendency for alternative options to be lacking, which can result in getting directly double switched into by Nidoqueen. However, this obviously depends on which Pokemon Electabuzz is forcing out on that turn.

re: Dodrio's rank
It is true that Dodrio is very dangerous after a SD pass, but the hit it often takes coming in makes it difficult to succeed as a receiver. I think it is best positioned at rank 9, or potentially 8 over Ampharos.

re: Qwilfish to bottom of A rank
I don't have any real issues with this movement, since it does have great utility just with Spikes and outspeeding Nidoqueen. However, my opinion is still that it belongs moreso in A- since it is essentially fodder after putting up Spikes, unlike something like Cloyster in OU where it is also one of the most threatening Exploders in the game. That said, feel free to put it at the bottom of A if you wish.

re: Jumpluff being worse than Bellossom or a B rank Pokemon
I strongly disagree with this, I think the guaranteed stop to Scyther that you have as a full HP Jumpluff, combined with the fact that the opponent cannot know whether you have a Jumpluff and therefore is fairly unlikely not to Wing Attack the first time, plus the lack of Pokemon that can outright force it out / switch into it without just becoming a free switch themselves (e.g. if you switch in a non-Thunder Wave Slowbro to absorb the status, Jumpluff can simply Leech Seed you and then Encore or continue using Stun Spore, and either spread more paralysis or create an easy switch-in for another teammate), easily justifies Jumpluff being an A- rank Pokemon. I will admit that it becomes less useful if their status absorber also has TWave, but that at least leaves them more susceptible to Nidoqueen. Bellossom is quite good, but it is highly debatable whether it deserves to be higher than I have already ranked it in my opinion.

re: Lowering Sandslash
If anything, I think Sandslash might be underrated. I don't think it deserves any lower than where it is.

re: Order of Piloswine, Politoed, Pinsir, Blastoise, Kadabra
I know that these Pokemon are all somewhat popular and somewhat effective at times, but I can definitely be swayed about the order they should appear in. I would not oppose dropping Piloswine/Politoed a bit for Blastoise/Kadabra if people believe they are stronger than I have given them credit for. I do not think anything here belongs in A- however. Pinsir I think is probably better than Kadabra, since it is more likely to get past its "counters". I am currently fairly unconvinced about Blastoise, but maybe someone will get me to change my mind (by showing it is effective in more games).

re: Raising Omastar's rank in B
I really like Omastar, it's probably my favourite Normal-resist. However, I am being conservative about its ranking because I think its niche outside dominating Normal-types is more limited than Magneton's or Haunter's, so it might not be a good Pokemon to have in all matchups.

re: Girafarig
I am currently not convinced that Girafarig should be higher than the Pokemon it is below, even though I can admit that the stats it BPs are better than any other BPer in the tier (even Scyther, probably).

re: Moving Electrode higher in B-
No objection from me.
 
Last edited:

Earthworm

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I realised today that I had enough replays to generate quite detailed stats from the GSC UU Tournament, so here they are:

GSC UU Tournament

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Nidoqueen          |  113 |  83.09% |  46.90% |
| 2    | Qwilfish           |   74 |  54.41% |  55.41% |
| 3    | Granbull           |   59 |  43.38% |  42.37% |
| 4    | Scyther            |   58 |  42.65% |  46.55% |
| 5    | Slowbro            |   49 |  36.03% |  51.02% |
| 6    | Ampharos           |   32 |  23.53% |  56.25% |
| 7    | Magneton           |   25 |  18.38% |  32.00% |
| 8    | Dodrio             |   24 |  17.65% |  50.00% |
| 9    | Hypno              |   23 |  16.91% |  43.48% |
| 10   | Mr. Mime           |   20 |  14.71% |  55.00% |
| 10   | Quagsire           |   20 |  14.71% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Electabuzz         |   20 |  14.71% |  40.00% |
| 13   | Bellossom          |   19 |  13.97% |  63.16% |
| 14   | Kadabra            |   17 |  12.50% |  52.94% |
| 14   | Politoed           |   17 |  12.50% |  47.06% |
| 14   | Kabutops           |   17 |  12.50% |  29.41% |
| 17   | Jumpluff           |   16 |  11.76% |  56.25% |
| 18   | Piloswine          |   15 |  11.03% |  40.00% |
| 19   | Electrode          |   14 |  10.29% |  64.29% |
| 19   | Girafarig          |   14 |  10.29% |  64.29% |
| 19   | Slowking           |   14 |  10.29% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Haunter            |   14 |  10.29% |  42.86% |
| 23   | Crobat             |   11 |   8.09% |  27.27% |
| 24   | Chansey            |   10 |   7.35% |  40.00% |
| 25   | Omastar            |    9 |   6.62% |  88.89% |
| 26   | Victreebel         |    8 |   5.88% |  50.00% |
| 26   | Arcanine           |    8 |   5.88% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Gligar             |    7 |   5.15% |  42.86% |
| 28   | Pinsir             |    7 |   5.15% |  14.29% |
| 30   | Pikachu            |    6 |   4.41% |  66.67% |
| 30   | Gyarados           |    6 |   4.41% |  16.67% |
| 32   | Poliwrath          |    4 |   2.94% |  25.00% |
| 33   | Vileplume          |    3 |   2.21% |  33.33% |
| 33   | Blastoise          |    3 |   2.21% |  33.33% |
| 33   | Shuckle            |    3 |   2.21% |  33.33% |
| 33   | Sudowoodo          |    3 |   2.21% |  33.33% |
| 33   | Lanturn            |    3 |   2.21% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Sandslash          |    2 |   1.47% | 100.00% |
| 39   | Flareon            |    1 |   0.74% | 100.00% |
| 39   | Feraligatr         |    1 |   0.74% |   0.00% |
| 39   | Pineco             |    1 |   0.74% |   0.00% |
| 39   | Xatu               |    1 |   0.74% |   0.00% |
| 39   | Houndour           |    1 |   0.74% |   0.00% |
Also, for comparison's sake here are the stats from UUPL:

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Nidoqueen          |   42 |  80.77% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Qwilfish           |   27 |  51.92% |  40.74% |
| 3    | Granbull           |   18 |  34.62% |  55.56% |
| 4    | Slowbro            |   16 |  30.77% |  68.75% |
| 5    | Scyther            |   15 |  28.85% |  53.33% |
| 6    | Magneton           |   13 |  25.00% |  46.15% |
| 7    | Dodrio             |   12 |  23.08% |  25.00% |
| 8    | Hypno              |   11 |  21.15% |  36.36% |
| 8    | Electabuzz         |   11 |  21.15% |  27.27% |
| 10   | Ampharos           |   10 |  19.23% |  70.00% |
| 10   | Piloswine          |   10 |  19.23% |  40.00% |
| 12   | Blastoise          |    9 |  17.31% |  44.44% |
| 13   | Haunter            |    8 |  15.38% |  37.50% |
| 14   | Mr. Mime           |    7 |  13.46% |  71.43% |
| 14   | Bellossom          |    7 |  13.46% |  57.14% |
| 14   | Gyarados           |    7 |  13.46% |  57.14% |
| 14   | Pinsir             |    7 |  13.46% |  42.86% |
| 18   | Quagsire           |    6 |  11.54% |  66.67% |
| 18   | Girafarig          |    6 |  11.54% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Slowking           |    6 |  11.54% |  33.33% |
| 21   | Sandslash          |    5 |   9.62% |  80.00% |
| 21   | Kabutops           |    5 |   9.62% |  80.00% |
| 21   | Kadabra            |    5 |   9.62% |  60.00% |
| 21   | Chansey            |    5 |   9.62% |  60.00% |
| 25   | Gligar             |    4 |   7.69% |  75.00% |
| 26   | Electrode          |    3 |   5.77% |  33.33% |
| 26   | Politoed           |    3 |   5.77% |   0.00% |
| 28   | Feraligatr         |    2 |   3.85% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Wigglytuff         |    2 |   3.85% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Jumpluff           |    2 |   3.85% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Lanturn            |    2 |   3.85% |  50.00% |
| 28   | Omastar            |    2 |   3.85% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Mantine            |    1 |   1.92% | 100.00% |
| 33   | Pikachu            |    1 |   1.92% | 100.00% |
| 33   | Lickitung          |    1 |   1.92% | 100.00% |
| 33   | Parasect           |    1 |   1.92% | 100.00% |
| 33   | Crobat             |    1 |   1.92% | 100.00% |
| 33   | Vileplume          |    1 |   1.92% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Ariados            |    1 |   1.92% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Flareon            |    1 |   1.92% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Shuckle            |    1 |   1.92% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Dragonair          |    1 |   1.92% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Magmar             |    1 |   1.92% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Graveler           |    1 |   1.92% |   0.00% |
| 33   | Primeape           |    1 |   1.92% |   0.00% |
I think some arguments can be made based on these stats, for example that Ampharos and Dodrio should perhaps indeed be above Electabuzz and Hypno, that Mr. Mime should be above Electabuzz, and that Magneton should be more towards the bottom of A- and Omastar and Bellossom should probably be either A- or the top of B+. I also think Pikachu should probably be B-. There may be other possible shifts between B and B+ that would be appropriate too.

Also, I've been doing some testing with the C and C+ rank Pokemon in my post and will probably suggest further changes at some stage. I am going to leave my big post the way it is though.

Anyone have any thoughts on these stats?
 

Bughouse

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magneton isn't as good as people think it is, clearly. Pretty rare for me to see a mon ranked A- and used 7th most... only to have a 32% winrate. Even in UUPL it was used 6th most... and also had a losing record. Same goes for Electabuzz. Ampharos somehow escapes the syndrome and has a good winrate, even though some people itt think it's the worst of the 3 main electrics.

Turns out being an Electric type in a tier where a bulky Ground Pokemon is top dog and used over 80% of the time is not a good deal. I think the reason Ampharos wins out though is that despite Nidoqueen's preeminence, you're still quite likely to face an Electric, since they're useful against Slowbro and Qwilfish etc. And between the 6 or so viable Electric options you might face, Ampharos lets you take any of them on and win (at worst trade, in terms of Electrode's boom, or mutually stall out vs other Ampharos), while keeping Nidoqueen safe for checking other mons.
 

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