Guardians of Minas Tirith (UU Joint)

Aerrow

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As you may know; the fabled city of Mina Tirith is the capital of the kingdom of Gondor in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. This UU team has been based around it to make things more interesting for both us the creators (Delko and Altros74), and also the reader of this rate my team thread. Now to the team itself!

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Team at a Glance:


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Team Building Process:

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As we were starting to build this joint RMT, we first thought which Pokémon we wanted to be as the base of this team and since Delko didn’t have a preference for Pokémon (as a favourite one) I was left to decide the first member of our underused team. After thinking for a while I chose one of my favourite Pokémon in the tier; feraligatr. After a short discussion, we decided to use a new set of feraligatr that used a bulky form and had swords dance and aqua jet for a clean sweep and we also decided to use this Pokémon as a late game sweeper.

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Now after this we looked at the Pokémon that went in synergy with feraligatr and we didn’t see much of a match so we decided to go with one of our favourite cores; fire, water and grass. First we went hunting for a good fire type which could help as a offensive Pokémon; the first one that came to mind was arcanine. I suggested using one of the standard sets, but Delko suggested something new; a new set that I was really impressed with; you will see it later in the team. Now to complete the core we looked for a grass type and now since we had two offensive Pokémon we decided to look for one that could also act as a wall yet be a lethal weapon. After searching through a few Pokémon we decided on venasaur because not only did he fit into the core; he also acts like a perfect wall and switch in for water attacks and electric attacks aimed at feraligatr and arcanine.


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Now since we had the core of the team and excellent synergy we looked at our weak points; one of them was the teams weakness to status; it could ruin the entire strategy so we opted for a great status absorber; cresselia. One of our most trusted walls/ supports in the under used tier, she was a must for this team.

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Now we started looking for a lead; something that could counter the common leads that use fake out and explosion; something like froslass. At first we thought about the standard suicide lead but Delko disagreed and said that a Pokémon like froslass can be used later in the game also so we went for a bulky froslass lead (you will see it in depth later on in the team).

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And now, as we glanced back over our team, we saw one major flaw; it had no stealth rock support. We both really liked the froslass lead so we opted for another great wall in the tier; Registeel. With its amazingly high defence and access to stealth rock and explosion this Pokémon fit right in and our team was complete.

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the Team - an In-Depth Look

The Bulky Set up Lead:

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Froslass
@ Leftovers (Eowyn)
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split

We choose Froslass as our lead because we needed something fast. Preferably being able to set up some kind of entry hazard (although we both disliked the thought of Toxic Spikes due to the fact of many poison types in UU). After some testing we came to the conclusion we both liked the bulky Froslass set, which was designed by Heysup. We needed Froslass as bulky as possible because she also serves as our anti spinner. With the EV’s spread explained the moveset is obvious. Since Froslass is our spiker, Spikes is obvious. Taunt let us stop slower opponents and helps against stall team. Shadow Ball is opted over Ice Beam so that we are able to something against the normal Froslass leads that are obviously faster and can Taunt us before we can do anything back. Pain Split lets Froslass recover herself and it can really screw over walls like Cresselia who have massive HP.

The Defensive Twosome:

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Registeel
@ Leftovers (Gandalf)
Ability: Clear Body
EV’s: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD
Careful Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave


Our team already has a Spikes lead but of course Stealth Rock might be cool as well. We choose Registeel because not only is he gifted with being able to get the rocks soon (and if needed multiple times), he can also give great team support to our sweepers who are on the slow side. He does so with Thunder Wave. That’s another reason why he has the STAB’ed Iron Head in his moveset. Registeel speed isn’t so bad that he gets out sped by even a paralysed opponent. This way he could use the Paraflinch technique. Earthquake provides decent coverage and is always nice to hit opposing Raikou with. Earthquake is also his best bet against opposing steel types (Aggron, …).

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Cresselia
@ Leftovers (Arwen)
Ability: Levitate
EV’s: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Psychic
- Charge Beam

Cresselia is our other wall and serves as a backup and status absorber. As you might have noticed our two walls can take hits on both the physical and the special side of the spectrum. Cresselia is a good Rest-talker and with a move as Charge Beam she can become a dangerous one as well. First we tried a dual screen Cresselia but she seemed to die to quickly (most of the time due to unpredicted Toxics).

The Sweepers:

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Feraligatr
@ Leftovers (Aragorn)
Ability: Torrent
Ev's: 166 HP / 176 Atk / 50 Def / 116 Spe
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Def)
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Feraligatr is our main sweeper, which we use preferable late game. SD Gatr is a very dangerous enemy to face, especially late game where all the walls are weakened or have been taken out. The strength lies in Aqua Jet. With a couple of Sword Dances up and a STAB’ed priority move this thing will walk right trough opposing teams. The EV’s spread makes it quite bulky so we are almost certain to get an SD up. The other moves are just for coverage. Ice Punch hit grass types are hard, while Earthquake hits other waters. Due to Feraligatr not so great Spe stat team support (most likely Thunderwave) is greatly appreciated.

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Arcanine
@ Choice Specs (Legolas)
Ability: Flash Fire
Ev's: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power (grass)
- ExtremeSpeed

Of course we needed a special sweeper as well. A fire type would complete our grass-water-fire type core which is always a plus. Looking at the possible options (Ninetales, Blaziken, Moltres, Typhlosion, …) we came to the conclusion that these were all predictable threats so we needed to find something unexpected. Looking at the physical list we noticed Arcanine. He can also perform decent on the special side but to give him an extra power boost, we decided to go with Specs. Overheat is extremely powerful after a Flash Fire boost since Arcanine has max SAtk, it’s STAB’ed and Specs’ed and it has a 140 BP, so it is sure to dent almost anything. Dragon Pulse gives him decent coverage and with HP grass Arcanine is able to beat his 2 most common counters (Slowbro and Registeel). Of ExtremeSpeed is kept simply because it is so goddamn useful on occasions.

The Mixed Attacker/ Team Supporter:

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Venusaur
@ Life Orb (Gimli)
Ability: Overgrow
Ev's: 64 HP / 164 Atk / 96 SpA /184 Spe
Nature: Mild (+Def, -SDef)
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed

Last but not least we have Venusaur. It acts as our counter to so many things, and with Leech Seed it can force a lot of switches. Sleep Powder also forces a lot of switches as there aren’t many opponents who keep a sleeping pokemon in. Power Whip is a new toy Venusaur received in HG/ SS and it deals with stat uppers like Mismagius or Raikou. Sludge bomb deals damage to grass types resisted to Leech Seed. Of course this set is covered reasonable well by steel types but that’s where Arcanine comes in handy.

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As you might have noticed this is a balanced team. It's main goal is to prepare SD Feraligatr for a sweep, while in the meanwhile being able to force a lot of switches with good synergy. This is being aided by the fact that e use a lot of entry hazards (SR + Spikes), couple this with a anti-spinner (Froslass) and those hazards can annoy after a while. With two powerful defensive powerhouses (Registeel and Cresselia) that can take hits on both sides of the spectrum, they can counter most opposing sweepers while helping the team out with moves like Thunder Wave. A status absorber is also a nice addition to balanced teams like our own. If due some problems Feraligtr fail in his mission, we can continue the sweep with specs Arcanine or bulky offensive Venusaur.


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Team at a Final Glance:


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RMT CREATED BY - ALTROS74 AND DELKO.

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Thank You for reading and Please Give Some Feedback/ Rates/ Suggestions
 
Threat List (Taken from Murf's Thread [who took it from j.franky's Thread) (thread = rate my team topic)

Part One.


Green
= No Problem at All
Orange = It Could Pose as a Possible Threat
Red = Major Threat

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- Switch out (probably if its a lead).
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- Switch to Registeel, because unless it has focus blast it will not be doing that much and Registeel's attcks can deal with it well. Also aque jet from Feraligatr works too.
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- Arcanine, Feraligatr.
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- Feraligatr.
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Taken down by Arcanine, Venusaur or Feralgatr.
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- Feraligatr; Registeel.
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- Venusaur.
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- Venusaur.
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- Feralgatr; Registeel; Cresselia can also take it or heavily dent it. Also fire type moves are used to boost Arcanine (flash fire).
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- Feralgatr and Arcanine with sheer strength.
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- Same as Chansey.

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- Could prove as a problem; Registeel could help; also destroy it with parahax. Or if its a sleep talker, our own Cresselia.

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- Feraligatr can usually take it; or just stall it with Venusaur or others.
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- Set up bait for Cresselia (destroys with charge beam).
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- Feraligatr comes in; Registeel and Cresselia wall it.
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- Feraligatr and Venasaur destroy it.
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- Registeel and Cresselia take it down.
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- taken out by Feralgatr/ Venasaur.
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- taken down by Cresselia; Feralgatr; Venusaur.
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- Usually used as a lead; let froslass (ours) set up, then switch to Feralgatr (it would set up swords dance while the enemy tries to destiny bond)

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- Sheer force with Feralgatr. Could prove as a threat.
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- simply with power by Feraligatr; Arcanine; Venusaur.
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- Just like Hitmonchan.
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- Feralgatr or Registeel.
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- Taken down by Cresselia and other walls.

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- Venusaur can probably bring it down; could pose as a threat.
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- Arcanine destroys.
 
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- Ice Beam/ Ice Punch- less are countered pretty well by Venusaur who can put it to sleep and Power Whip it.

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- Registeel counters it quite well. It can Paraflinch it.

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- Venusaur can take both Toxic and Surf (most common moves) if she packs Ice Beam venusaur can still take it.

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- Sub-NP can be troublesome but it doesn't enjoy Specs moves from Arcanine. Registeel can take unboosted hits, so can Venusaur.

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Arcanine can absorb the fire hits. If it is scarfed, itsn't a big deal but the LO version are countered by Cresselia and the aformentioned Arcanine. Hopefully we have SR up.
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- Venusaur does reasonable. If it's a special version Cresselia is our main bet.

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- Cresselia can spawn Psychic at it.

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- Venusaur takes hits very well from the lead versions. Arcanine can predict a switch and HP grass its ass.
Rain versions are countered by Registeel.
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- Venusaur or Cresselia can come in and do their thing. e have to be careful about Encore though.

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- Scarfed version require switching around + prediction, NP version are countered by Registeel (even with HP fighting) or Cresselia (without Dark Pulse), Venusaur can take unboosted hit reasonably as
well.
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Venusaur can take Poison Jabs and Waterfalls. Registeel does so as well although a RD boosted Waterfall coupled with some flinch-hax is troublesome.
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Registeel can Earthquake, we can also revenge kill it with Extreme Speed if needed.
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- The ones without Explosion and Thunder Wave are set up bait for Feraligatr. They also don't like taking an HP grass from Arcanine. The ones without Explosion are walled by Cresselia.

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- The ones without Explosion and Thunder Wave are set up bait for Feraligatr. They also don't like taking an Overheat from Arcanine. The ones without Explosion are walled by Cresselia.

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- Mostly comes in to counter Arcanine, just to be kicked where it hurts by HP grass.

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- venusaur and Registeel cover Rotom quite nicely.

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- Doesn't like taking on Overheat (or even any other attack for that matter with its under average defenses).

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- Raped by SR and then finished of by Extreme Speed.

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- HP grass is a 2HKO (after SR), otherwise Power Whip or Charge Beam deal with it.

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- Versions with Pursuit, Sucker Punch are set up bait for Feraligatr, the Will-o-wisp ones can make Cresselia go to max SAtk.

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- Registeel doesn't like taking an Specs Overheat.

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- Registeel can wall it like there's no tomorrow. After an SD, Aqua Jet does a lot as well.

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- Tangrowth has terrible special defenses so Overheat is the way to go.

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One of the few times we regret missing Ice Beam on Cresselia. Venusaur can put it to sleep so that Arcanine can kill it.
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- Cresselia doesn't fear unboosted Sucker Punches and fires of STAB'd Psychics.

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- Venusaur can screw over wish passers with sleep. Pain Split hurts the ones without Payback as well.

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- Uxie isn't a threat as she can serve as set up bait for Feraligatr (hopefully she doesn't carry Thunderbolt, -Wave). Arcanine can hit it with immense powerful Overheats as well.

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- Cresselia absorbs Sleep Powder with ease and can Psychic in return (with some luck with Sleep Talk). Arcanine can come in with relative ease on HP fire or Power Whip and scare it away with its Overheat.

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- Cresselia can counter al version (bare the ones with Explosion), even if it has status moves.
 
Hello guys,

This looks like a solid team. And the presentation is excellent.
But do have some suggestions:

- Since you are running Thunderwave on Registeel to support the slower Feraligatr you could take out another move and replace it with Waterfall. Waterfall with a Sword Dance or 2 up is a very deadly move. Although you loose coverage (I suggest taking out Ice Punch) Waterfall still deals heavy damage to grass types. You can also use it over Aqua Jet if you don't mind the lose of priority.

- On Registeel you could go with Explosion over Earthquake. Explosion takes out dangerous threats, while Earthquake fails to do so with Registeel's rather low attack stat.

- If you want Arcanine to sweep later in the game, you should consider Flamethrower on it. Overheat might be okay for a one time use, but Arcanine must switch after that. Flamethrower coupled with a Specs still deals great damage and to be honest a Specs Overheat is kind of an overkill.

- You should consider Ice Beam on Cresselia, over Psychic. This Boltbeam combination will make here chances to start a possible sweep even greater. Psychic is a horrible offensive type and with all the dark types luring in UU, Ice might be a better choice.

- To stop Venusaur from being walled by steel types you could with Hidden Power fire on it instead of Sludge Bomb. Most grass types in UU are partially poison as well making Hidden Power fire more attractive as well. You will loose you STAB but the wider range of coverage will make up for it.

Last but not least I do have a question:

Could you explane the given EV's for Venusaur please. I ask so because I believe that Venusaur isn't meant to have a -Def nature because it will loose it's bulk that way. You could try a Sassy nature here if you desire.

Okay, I hopes this helped you and good luck with the team! ;3
 
Last but not least I do have a question:

Could you explane the given EV's for Venusaur please. I ask so because I believe that Venusaur isn't meant to have a -Def nature because it will loose it's bulk that way. You could try a Sassy nature here if you desire.

Okay, I hopes this helped you and good luck with the team! ;3
Reserved forin depth response.
 
Actually Venusaur does have a Mild nature.

The EV spread is designed to milk as much out of Venusaur as possible. The Attack EVs guarentee 2HKOs on Slowbro and Chansey with Power Whip, while the Special Attack EVs grant Venusaur a clean OHKO on Sceptile and other Grass-types who may try to wall this set. The Speed EVs allow Venusaur to outrun Adamant Honchkrow if the need arises, but know that Sucker Punch will still do a hefty amount of damage should your opponent choose that attack over Brave Bird.

As you can see the -Def nature doesn't really mater (besides Sucker Punch) because Venusaur can outspeed possible threats (which it couldn't with a Sassy nature) and score a decent amount of KO's.
 
Well, pretty cool team here. Feraligatr is a great pokemon. I just wanted to say a couple of things though, mainly on your threat list. For ambipom, froslass cannot beat it because you run shadow ball over ice beam and if it taunts you then you have to switch out. Due to the past statitistics, ambipom is a more common lead than froslass (Mainly because a lot of people aren't using it as a lead anymore and instead have it come in later t safely lay down spikes). Plus, nowadays most Ambipom carry Payback to compliment well with low kick and a normal move to give perfect type coverage. For alazkazam you say anything that iis faster than it, but none of your pokes are faster except for the priority moves. You should change to: switch to registeel, because unless it has focus blast it will not be doing that much and regitsteels attcks can deal with it well. There are a couple of other things on the threat list but I need to goback to school soon lol. But overall, I really like this team a lot.
 
I understand that you have Flash Fire on Arcanine because you have 3 pokemon weak to fire so Arcanine will get enough chances to receive a power up. But I suggest you both to consider Intimidate. Due to powerful physical attackers in UU (Ambipom like Ich777ich mentioned could cause some trouble) the attack drop on them could really help. Without the Flash Fire ability Arcanine will still take the majority of fire moves with relative ease so no problem there. Also I agree with You are not alone with Flamethrower on Arcanine. Although I would not use it over Overheat since that move is intensly powerful even without a Flash Fire boost. But you can use it over HP grass. With Choice Specs you need to predict really well and Dragon Pulse could be the safer choice here, even against incomming water types. Dragon + fire is unresisted in UU and with Specs attached they will do a great amount of damage even when NVE. You have Power Whip on Venusaur anyway if you really need a grass type move. Also I, despite what You are not alone said, believe that Waterfall is not a necessaty on SD Gatr. Especially when you use it late game where opposing pokemon are dead or weakened anyway.
 
Well everything looks good, but I would drop shadow ball on Frosslass and put in Ice Beam for normal types not being so annoying. Also, just so you can use Waterfall over Aqua Jet, why not give Feraligatr DD >> SD. Imo the speed bost is nice along with the attack boost.
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EASY VAPE REVIEW
 
Well, pretty cool team here. Feraligatr is a great pokemon. I just wanted to say a couple of things though, mainly on your threat list. For ambipom, froslass cannot beat it because you run shadow ball over ice beam and if it taunts you then you have to switch out. Due to the past statitistics, ambipom is a more common lead than froslass (Mainly because a lot of people aren't using it as a lead anymore and instead have it come in later t safely lay down spikes). Plus, nowadays most Ambipom carry Payback to compliment well with low kick and a normal move to give perfect type coverage. For alazkazam you say anything that iis faster than it, but none of your pokes are faster except for the priority moves. You should change to: switch to registeel, because unless it has focus blast it will not be doing that much and regitsteels attcks can deal with it well. There are a couple of other things on the threat list but I need to goback to school soon lol. But overall, I really like this team a lot.

Okay, I see what you are trying to say; Ill make the change right way. Thankd Ich; for the suggestion and rate. I hope you will be able to giva a full rate later on.
 
I understand that you have Flash Fire on Arcanine because you have 3 pokemon weak to fire so Arcanine will get enough chances to receive a power up. But I suggest you both to consider Intimidate. Due to powerful physical attackers in UU (Ambipom like Ich777ich mentioned could cause some trouble) the attack drop on them could really help. Without the Flash Fire ability Arcanine will still take the majority of fire moves with relative ease so no problem there. Also I agree with You are not alone with Flamethrower on Arcanine. Although I would not use it over Overheat since that move is intensly powerful even without a Flash Fire boost. But you can use it over HP grass. With Choice Specs you need to predict really well and Dragon Pulse could be the safer choice here, even against incomming water types. Dragon + fire is unresisted in UU and with Specs attached they will do a great amount of damage even when NVE. You have Power Whip on Venusaur anyway if you really need a grass type move. Also I, despite what You are not alone said, believe that Waterfall is not a necessity on SD Gatr. Especially when you use it late game where opposing pokemon are dead or weakened anyway.
Thanks for the awesome suggestion; my response to them :

- For Arcanine, I do really think think that flash fire would be a better option for ability than intimidate because although intimidate lowers a foe's attack strength flash fire boosts Arcanine's own strength and if the opposing pokemon were special.attack based, the intimidate would do nothing while flash fire would always have the ability to upgrade Arcanine when hit with a fire type move no matter what.

-Yeah, I too think that flamethrower would be a great option but I'm not sure which move should be taken out for it; I'll have to conference with Delko about this.

Thanks for the Rate!
 
Well everything looks good, but I would drop shadow ball on Frosslass and put in Ice Beam for normal types not being so annoying. Also, just so you can use Waterfall over Aqua Jet, why not give Feraligatr DD >> SD. Imo the speed bost is nice along with the attack boost.
Yeah, I thought about that but and me and Delko did have a discussion about swords dance or dragon dance and we ended up with swords (+2 attack strength while dragon dance gives +1 attack and +1 speed) so aqua jet was necessary for a priority move on this slow pokemon.

Thanks for the Rate!; and I'll talk to Delko about again thinking about Feraligatr (swords dance or dragon dance set) again wen he comes back on.
 
Okay

@ Ich777ich: Froslass isn't meant to stay in against Ambipom anyway and being able to something against opposing Froslass who could otherwise set up (we don't have a spinner) is more appreciated.

@ BLAAK.: You have a point with the Flamethrower over Overheat suggestion. This will definitely be tested. Psychic > Ice Beam is UU because like you have mentioned most grass types in UU are poison typed as well, so they are hit harder by Psychic then by Ice Beam. Besides Psychic also deals more damage to full poison pokemon like Toxicroak and Weezing. It also deals with numerous fighting type pokemon in UU. On Venusaur we will be unable to get the needed KO's with HP fire. Steel Types are covered pretty well by Arcanine and to a lesser extend Registeel. With a lot of priority moves in UU Aqua Jet is prefered over Waterfall. The low base power is compensated by the fact that Feraligatr is a late game sweeper so opponents will be weakened enough by then. (the last one is also a response to ChernobylOverseer).

Keep on rating ^^
 
Another joint thread? I helped the first one, now let's see if I can help the second.

It's actually a very nice team that counters a whole lot of threats, and not a lot of Pokemon seem too major of a threat. However, there are three Pokemon (specific sets as well) that give this team a lot of of headaches. We'll list them here:

1. The Standard DDGatr, with a moveset of Dragon Dance/Waterfall/Earthquake/(Crunch/Ice Punch/Return). Bulky ones with a Sub are actually harder for you to take down, especially late game seeing as though if the correct threats are eliminated, it can get at least two easy DD's in. However, with a full team, it's stopped by Venusaur and has the possibility of getting TWaved by Registeel. Offensive ones crush this team single handedly, but can eventually be worn down. Especially with Spikes and Rock support, DDGatr has the potential to really cause this team some problems.

Froslass is OHKO'd after Rocks (I'm assuming it switches into DDGatr as opposed to DDGatr switching in). Registeel can be OHKO'd with Earthquake if it either has prior damage (of around 10%) or runs into both Rocks and at least one layer of Spikes. Arcanine is outsped and OHKO'd (ExtremeSpeed does a maximum of 21%, which is not good). Cresselia is outsped and, at the very least, 3HKO'd at +1, while the maximum you can do is half of its health, assuming that both Charge Beams hit AND you get the boost from the first hit. Variants with Crunch, on average, easily 2HKO you. Your SDGatr is outsped and 2HKO'd by Earthquake, and Aqua Jet does diddly squat. Your unboosted EQ does 38% maximum to the regular set, and if you Swords Dance, you're outsped, and you do 0% damage. Venusaur is OHKO'd by Earthquake after Rocks, let alone Ice Punch.

It can be defeated with a combination on Cresselia, Arcanine, and Feraligatr, but most of this is due to Life Orb recoil, and you're guaranteed to lose at least one, if not two, of your party members. At +2, it's pretty much over for your team, and DDGatr has the opportunity to set up on Froslass, Arcanine after an Overheat, Registeel (if it's the Sub variety), and your own Gatr (if it has taken prior damage of around 15-20% or so, if it's under a Sub, or walks into Rocks and at least one layer of Spikes). Not great numbers, to be honest.

2. In the same manner as DDGatr, RP Rhyperior hits this team hard, with a moveset of RP/Earthquake/Stone Edge/Megahorn. Once it gets one RP in and with Rocks support, everything can be nailed for OHKO's and 2HKO's. Your only course of action is your SDGatr, who can't even OHKO it with a +2 Aqua Jet, while it 2HKO's you. If Rhyperior has Leftovers, you're going to have to sacrifice at least two Pokes (Feraligatr and another, most likely Cresselia or Registeel) before it can go down, which means you lose your main sweeper and, most likely, one of your support members. That's a pretty big loss. If for some reason your opponent runs Adamant over Jolly, this team is in bad shape. Honorable mentions go to SDPerior, who OHKO's this whole team, but can easily be outsped and revenged by Venusaur.

3. Any set that Alakazam runs will be a pain, but in particular, any set that runs a Substitute will ram this team hard. However, the SubEncore or SubTaunt Lead/Support set really ruins this team. As a lead, you'll be forced to Shadow Ball first, which leads to two things: an unfavorable switch, most notably to a Pursuiter or Night Slash user like ScarfSol or Drapion, which would most likely stop Spikes (or limit it to one layer) from hitting the field, or Alakazam sacrificing himself and either Taunting you, preventing Spikes and Pain Split, Encoring your Shadow Ball, which although gets rid of Alakazam, it sets up an unfavorable switch and, once again, prevents Spikes from coming onto the field 100% of the time. Anything else Froslass does leads to a 2HKO with Psychic, meaning either Froslass is dead with Alakazam in a Sub and two layers of Spikes are out, or Froslass is dead while breaking his Sub with one layer of Spikes out. As a support role, or if it survives, it beats or messes up a lot of your team one on one. If it gets under a Sub, Feraligatr's unboosted Aqua Jet cannot 2HKO before it. If it has Leftovers, Aqua Jet may not be able to 2HKO it out of a sub. Registeel and Cresselia will not like being Encored OR Taunted at all, Arcanine is outsped and can be scouted with Substitute, and Venusaur, you guessed it, is OHKO'd by Psychic. He won't beat your team to a pulp like the other threats, but he'll sure cause a lot of trouble if he can predict well.

You might laugh Delko, but I'm going to pick on that Venusaur once again. I generally like Venusaur, contrary to my last two rates, and I actually run into a lot that beat me. XD It's just that one is really, really frail for such a big Poke, and even though you've chosen bulky sets for your other Pokemon, this team is Defensively frail still, which does not help it. A lot of things outspeed and OHKO it, and if they don't outspeed, they survive and OHKO it.Perhaps we can call upon another Grass type to fill a similar role? There is one other Bulky Grass type that, in my opinion, does a lot better job at being a team supporter:

470.png

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
252 HP/228 Def/28 Spe
Ability: Clorophyll
Nature: Impish (or Lax, if you choose Sludge Bomb)
Ability:
- Sleep Powder
- Power Whip
- Knock Off/Sludge Bomb/Stun Spore
- Leech Seed

Monjombo! Now, the role that your Venusaur plays is decent, but you're really just splitting two of its basic sets (Wall and Mixed) and trying to do two separate roles at the same time with one Poke. What is it, is it a Mixed Attacker that's designed to tackle wallbreaking, or a wall that supports the team with status? It's too frail to try and do both, and when factoring in Life Orb, I'm guessing this thing isn't going to last very long. Enter: Tangrowth. Remember that Feraligatr I mentioned earlier? With Leftovers, it's never a 2HKO at +1 with Ice Punch, and you can OHKO it with Power Whip after Rocks and Spikes damage. Or, you can put it to sleep. Or, if it has Lefties or lacks Ice Punch, Leech Seed it. It's now a bite-sized threat. Rhyperior? Megahorn's a 2HKO, while Power Whip is a OHKO after Spikes/Rocks. If it lacks Megahorn, the best it can do is Stone Edge you for a max of 40% damage. Monjombo here plays the exact same role as your Venusaur played in that it provides a lot of switching, except that instead of attacking and getting hit by Life Orb recoil and getting easily revenged, it has Knock Off, which completely screws over just about anything that switches in. Choice items? Gone. Cresselia and Milotic won't like their Lefties getting knocked off. Life Orbs? Gone. Really, items make or break matches, and your team will thrive when your opponent loses their items. If you desire, Tangrowth does learn Sludge Bomb, albeit it does not receive STAB for it. That would retain Venusar's original mixed coverage, and by changing the nature to Lax, you're pretty much doing the exact same thing to Venusaur, only losing Special Defense instead of Defense. Stun Spore turns this into Double Powder, which might help out your SDGatr a lot. Consider and test that as well.

Some nitpicks on your Pokes, too:

Aqua Jet is nice, but a Base Power move of 60 after STAB is underwhelming, even considering priority. Consider replacing Aqua Jet with Waterfall, for a better, stronger attack. Like the poster above said, Registeel will help with the Speed issue with TWave, and so can Tangrowth if it's given Stun Spore.

Charge Beam Sleep Talk Cresselia is nice, but it still loses to a lot of threats, and is somewhat weak defensively compared to other Cresselia sets. Charge Beam doesn't help it overcome a whole lot it can't already do with the basic Calm Mind set. Consider changing Cresselia to a Bold nature, putting the EV's at 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD, and replacing Charge Beam with Calm Mind. CroSelia is riddiculous, and although it's walled by Dark types, only Absol, Spiritomb, and Drapion come to mind as common Dark types, and generally any and all Cresselia movesets are defeated by these three anyway. You gain so much more bulk and power over a short period of time, it's not even funny. Plus, you still retain the Status Absorber you need. Not a bad trade-off, if you ask me.

Consider replacing Shadow Ball to Ice Beam. The ony thing Shadow Ball hits as a lead is Alakazam (who can still SubEncore you into oblivion) and opposing Froslass, and generally, Proslass (your set) can't do squat to others anyway, as most Suicide leads pack Taunt/Spikes/Ice Beam/Destiny Bond. Your Shadow Ball cannot OHKO it, and since it outspeeds you, a combination of Taunt/Destiny Bond ruins you. It's a draw, but you lose your precious Spikes too. So, you lose to a lot of opposing leads, plus tie with the only lead Shadow Ball counters. Ice Beam lets you win against Ambipom, as well as easily beat opposing Donphans who carry Stealth Rock. Proslass is made to come out later in the game and dispose of a lot of threats with Ice Beam, which Shadow Ball cannot do. As a side note, Ice Beam still breaks Alakazam's subs, which is a plus.

On Arcanine, consider replacing Dragon Pulse with either Fire Blast or Flamethrower. Dragon Pulse only hits Altaria for Super Effective damage, and it's just really set up bait for a lot of UU Pokes that resist it, most notably RPAggron. Unless you find the coverage from it a necessity, change it. A second Fire move on Arcanine may seem redundant, but in the same vein as SpecsLatias with Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse, adding another move of the same typing that doesn't drop your stats really helps it in the late game, as you really don't want Arcanine to be your last Poke at -2 and lowering because of Overheat.

Hope this helps, and good luck!
 
Lol DrkSlay, that's a pretty long rate xD

Anyway, I noticed that Proslass is indeed not often used as a lead. So you should consider leading with Venusaur (standard scarf set from the analyses) so you can get a quick Sleep Powder in as well as having a decent revenge killer against Altaria with HP ice, ... You can also lead with Registeel. He walls pretty much every lead that doesn't care Taunt and against the Froslass, ... who do you can use Iron Head or Earthquake. If you decided not to lead with Froslass then Ice Beam would indeed be the better option.

PS. I take back my suggestion about Explosion on Registeel as Thunder Wave + Explosion is a no-go.

Good luck with the rest of the team and I hope this helped once again.
 
@ DrkSlay : Thanks for the rate man and Delko and I will probably be doing some major changes to the team; will be known soon.

@ You are not alone
: Thanks for the rate and basically the same thing I just said to DrkSlay.
 
Why don't you replace Cresselia with Claydoll? You can make that your lead instead of Froslass so you can safe her for latter and set up Spikes when you have a free moment. You can Scarf the Claydol and give it the moveset: ~ Trick/ ~ Rapid Spin/ ~ Stealth Rock/ ~ Earthquake. The Idea is simple you Trick your opponent's lead when it sets up his rocks. When your opponent switch out you can set up your own rocks or spin the ones from your opponent away. You can use it as a decent revenge killer against Raikou as well (that's why the Earthquake). This way you can make Registeel a Crosteel version with the moves: ~ Curse/ ~ Iron Head/ ~ Rest/ ~ Sleep Talk. This way it can be used as your status absorber since you have replaced Claydoll. You can also replace Venusaur now as you have a spinner to spin away Toxic Spikes. Although I think that Tangrowth is a poor suggestion. I think Clefable or Umbreon are better suggestions. that are also defensive but the can help you with luring it counters so Proslass could get a safe switch in and so being able to get the spikes up with relative ease. They both are also very usefull as they can both provide Wish support for your team and they have moves to get rid of status (Aromatherapy and Heal Bell respectively). If you decided to go with them then a status absorber isn't really needed and you can just go with Earthquake over Stealth Rock on Registeel.
 
Why don't you replace Cresselia with Claydoll? You can make that your lead instead of Froslass so you can safe her for latter and set up Spikes when you have a free moment. You can Scarf the Claydol and give it the moveset: ~ Trick/ ~ Rapid Spin/ ~ Stealth Rock/ ~ Earthquake. The Idea is simple you Trick your opponent's lead when it sets up his rocks. When your opponent switch out you can set up your own rocks or spin the ones from your opponent away. You can use it as a decent revenge killer against Raikou as well (that's why the Earthquake). This way you can make Registeel a Crosteel version with the moves: ~ Curse/ ~ Iron Head/ ~ Rest/ ~ Sleep Talk. This way it can be used as your status absorber since you have replaced Claydoll. You can also replace Venusaur now as you have a spinner to spin away Toxic Spikes. Although I think that Tangrowth is a poor suggestion. I think Clefable or Umbreon are better suggestions. that are also defensive but the can help you with luring it counters so Proslass could get a safe switch in and so being able to get the spikes up with relative ease. They both are also very usefull as they can both provide Wish support for your team and they have moves to get rid of status (Aromatherapy and Heal Bell respectively). If you decided to go with them then a status absorber isn't really needed and you can just go with Earthquake over Stealth Rock on Registeel.

Knew I would have to defend my Tangrowth choice. :P Note that this is in no way done in disrespect to your rate, but rather to show you why Tangrowth is the superior option. Well, here comes the long explanation:

There are two problems with your defensive suggestions in regards to this specific team. One, you're pretty much replacing Venusaur with a Pokemon that does an entirely different role that its predecessor did, which would change this team's play style dramatically. Unless the team can cope with the change (it seems that Venusaur's attacks and typing are the main selling points on why it was used in the first place), this kind of change is unwanted. Yes, Clefable and Umbreon are nice support Pokes and have an interesting movepool, but their purpose on teams (mainly Stall, by the way) does not help this team's main goal of setting up a sweeper. Umbreon would just make this team Taunt weak, and while Umbreon's Special Defense is out of this world, its Defense is not, and you cannot afford to make a Curse set, as that would limit your Support moves by a good margin. Umbreon suffers from Four Slot Syndrome, and it doesn't have enough moves to really benefit this team. Clefable is a great Poke on both Stall and Anti-Set Up teams, and it's hard to argue that Wish support isn't nice, but once again, you're adding another Pokemon that has a weak Defense stat, and this team is already weak Defensively. Tangrowth accomplishes exactly what Venusaur did earlier, with a focus more on team support rather than Life Orb wall breaking. Tangrowth's mighty Defense also counters this team's general Physical weakness, which is a huge plus.

Two, please read my threat list. What can Clefable or Umbreon do to a DDGatr at +1? Rhyperior with a Rock Polish under its belt? Umbreon is either the Curse or Trapper variant. CurseBreon does not generally carry Status moves at all, and is 2HKO'd with Rocks down, even if it Cursed for the second hit. Trapper variants run Mean Look/Wish/Taunt/Baton Pass. However, this is where you might see Toxic, which might help if Umbreon has not taken prior damage, but if it's Bulky DDGatr, it might run a Sub. Rhyperior is a non-issue, as he OHKO's you with Megahorn after Rocks anyway. With Toxic as your only source for attacking, anything like Drapion or Toxicroak, as well as anything Steel and Status Absorbers beat it and dent this team. That's not good.

Clefable can't do diddly squat to Rhyperior, especially if it runs TWave, so good luck with that. It's a 2HKO all of the time with Earthquake, and the best you can do is Wish and switch, or Seismic Toss it. Note that only Cresselia avoids Earthquake on this team, and is still 2HKO'd by Megahorn (without doing a thing to Rhyperior in return). Clefable can TWave Feraligatr, this is true, and is 2HKO'd by Waterfall, meaning it can come in on a KO and TWave. However, this is so obvious, a switch will be made, and the DD loss on the switch is not really a big deal, as it's fairly easy to set up on this team. Imagine a team with Feraligatr AND Rhyperior! XD Jokes aside, this is not good for this team, at all.

Now, let's look at Tangrowth. What can a Feraligatr do at +1 with an Ice Punch? 31.2% - 37.1%, which is a 4HKO after Leftovers. Power Whip is a OHKO. Rhyperior? 37.1% - 44.1% with Megahorn. Power Whip is a OHKO. Tangrowth also provides immediate Sleep support, like Venusaur did, which Clefable cannot do without Sing (which is terrible anyway) or Umbreon cannot do without Yawn (which is not immediate, removes the threat of Toxic, and once someone's asleep, it's useless on the set overall). Leech Seed was also a staple of the previous team with Venusaur, which Tangrowth does. While he may lack the awesome moves of Wish and Encore, he checks a lot of threats to this team, and with either Knock Off or Stun Spore (which, by the way, hits Ground types - another reason to use it as Paralysis support over TWave users), creates a lot of havoc. Don't think Tangrowth is a poor choice for a team supporter just because it lacks team healing. On the right team, he's actually quite good.

I'll also give my two cents on your other suggestions while I'm at it, if you don't mind:

TrickScarf leads, in general, will not help this team. The main threats to this team are generally strong Pokemon who get boosts in Speed. Risking a chance to slap a Scarf on something strong is never a good thing, unless you can take advantage of one-move Pokemon (which this team cannot do). I use Trick leads a lot, especially with my TormentPion set, which helps there. This team will not benefit, and to be honest, you'll still lose to Moltres leads, especially if they run Scarf too, good Ambipom users, as they will notice the lack of Leftovers on a Fake Out, and Froslass who decide to use Ice Beam first and 2HKO you. I'm also not sure where you're getting the Raikou counter from: at +1, Raikou can 2HKO you with HP Grass or HP Ice (which it will have), while even Earthquake can't OHKO back. By then, you would have probably lost your Scarf for a guaranteed 2HKO on you or has taken a good amount of damage as well, which could mean Raikou can actually OHKO you. On a side note, this team would not want another Water weakness, as a +1 DDGatr outspeeds Claydol with a Scarf and OHKO's you after Rocks are down, which most likely will be, as you generally bring a Spinner into Rocks to get rid of them. Not to mention TrickUxie is kind of is superior to TrickClaydol as well.

I like CroSteel, but he would lose TWave support, which helps SDGatr immensely. If they were to choose CroSteel, they would definitely have to change their Cresselia set, as having two Sleep Talkers (or even worse, two Cro-users) is redundant, and they would lose to pretty much the same Pokes (Taunt/Encore abusers, etc.), which is never good. It does counter PZ and Cressy well, like discussed in Delko's last joint team topic, but overall, it still loses to DDGatr. Iron Head is resisted, and if both are at +1, Registeel is 2HKO'd by Earthquake, while Feraligatr is 6HKO'd by Iron Head. Run Earthquake, and laugh as Cresselia actually walls Registeel for the first time in history.

I don't mean to shoot down your ideas so quickly, but I just can't see these changes as beneficial.
 
I'm sorry BLAAK, but for this mater I totally go with DrkSlay's opinion; not only has he given great suggestions he has also given concrete proof to support his ideas, so I do think changes will be made accordingly (after I talk to Delko of course).
 
Okay DrkSlay, thank you for those 2 rather long rates. ^^

After some suggestions me and Altros74 have decided to test the following options that you, the raters have suggested:

1. Fire Blast over Overheat on Arcanine. Otherwise Flamethrower over HP grass.

2. Tangrowth over Venusaur.

3. Trying out Registeel as a lead so Froslass can set up Spikes later in the battle.

4. Ice Beam over Shadow Ball on Froslass.

5. Waterfall over Ice Punch/ Aqua Jet on Feraligatr.

6. Calm Mind over Charge Beam on Cresselia and Bold nature over a Calm one.

Again, I would like to thanks all raters for there suggestion and when we have tested the possible changes we will update the team. Thanks! ^^
 
Okay DrkSlay, thank you for those 2 rather long rates. ^^

After some suggestions me and Altros74 have decided to test the following options that you, the raters have suggested:

1. Fire Blast over Overheat on Arcanine. Otherwise Flamethrower over HP grass.

2. Tangrowth over Venusaur.

3. Trying out Registeel as a lead so Froslass can set up Spikes later in the battle.

4. Ice Beam over Shadow Ball on Froslass.

5. Waterfall over Ice Punch/ Aqua Jet on Feraligatr.

6. Calm Mind over Charge Beam on Cresselia and Bold nature over a Calm one.

Again, I would like to thanks all raters for there suggestion and when we have tested the possible changes we will update the team. Thanks! ^^
Also we have considered putting a Moltres in the lead position.
 
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