Pokémon Gyarados

[TKGriffiths]

Gyarados @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Waterfall
- Roar

I've been using the same set but with Chesto Berry instead of Rocky Helmet, and Dragon Tail instead of Roar. I think Dragon Tail is better because it avoids Taunt and does decent damage to dragons. I found it particularly useful against Weakness Policy Dragonite because you activate the item the instantly phaze it away, along with breaking Multiscale.

The set's particularly good at countering Scizor and checking Dragon Dancers, specially defensive Ferrothorn is an excellent partner because of the type synergy and it can set up Stealth Rock so you can do some damage with Roar/Dragon Tail.

 

[michaeloche]

I'm pretty sure they will just set up on you anyways

Setting up on a Roar user... good one.

Yeah, I know RestTalk is imperfect, but this works well enough for my team.

 

[Flamebot]

Setting up on a Roar user... good one.

Yeah, I know RestTalk is imperfect, but this works well enough for my team.

Lol forgot about roar. xD. But honestly Run a diffrent set first and pair it with Garchomp and try it out first then decided.

I use Ferrothorn and have NEVER failed to beat a Gyarados, and the Mega version has a Grass weakness so is usually OHKO'd by Power Whip

I'm running a normal Gyarados tho. I've taken out Ferrothorns with it, but by the Gyarados is worn down and becomes useless. I do usally lose to them tho xD. I just switch out now, or switch in after Ferrothorn is gone.

 

[Ogami]

Why would you ever try to sweep when the opponent has a healthy ferrothorn? That's one pokemon that really doesn't care about most of what gyara can do bar multiple crits. Taunt can be annoying, but ferro should just be power whipping for massive damage anyways. Gyarados, espcecially with it's new mega form, can break past a lot of things it struggled with before, but ferrothorn is not one of those things. Please, do not try to beat ferrothorn with gyarados. Leave that to magnezone, who can also get skarm for you. Or maybe a lure. Anything but gyara himself

 

[Jin White]

Not really. I usually 2HKO it after DD. The only thing you have to fear is getting seeded

I don't know what kind of scrub Ferrothorns you're facing, because it takes a +2 offensive Gyarados to even have a chance at 2HKOing Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn with Power Whip is a pretty hard counter to most Gyarados sets.

For the sake of team-building, I think it'd be helpful if we listed Gyarados' major counters. Thanks to the blessing that is his Mega-evo, his counters are now few and far between, but there are still some pokes that evoke an audible "ohshit" when I see them in the team preview. Here are the major pokes Gyarados will NOT be sweeping past on his own:

Deoxys-D (Taunt + T-Wave)
Ferrothorn
Physically Defensive Mega Venusaur
Sableye (Taunt + WoW)
Certain bulky grass-types: Celebi, Gourgeist, Chesnaught, Abomasnow

With honorable mentions to Skarmory and the uncommon Slowbro; the former can't really do anything but phaze, while the latter threatens to burn and regenerate.

Outside of Slowbro, CB Sacred Fire Entei (or really any powerful Fire-type: Heatran, Rotom-H) wrecks all of them and switches in to WoW. Did I miss any obvious counters? And who do you use to support Gyarados to get past them?

 

[TKGriffiths]

Most grass types are good checks/counters, I'd say Celebi and Rotom-C in particular though I realize Rotom-C isn't very popular since its main niche was to counter rain.

 

[Jin White]

Most grass types are good checks/counters, I'd say Celebi and Rotom-C in particular though I realize Rotom-C isn't very popular since its main niche was to counter rain.

Mm I dunno, Ice Fang tends to tear most of them a new one, especially at +1, and almost none can outspeed and OHKO. Gourgeist bears mentioning because it's physically bulky with WoW, but outside of Ferrothorn and very specific Mega Venusaurs you can chomp past them with Ice Fang. Abomasnow could also be a threat... luckily Grass pokes in general aren't that common despite TrollFreak's insane, manic desire to buff the typing (e.g. Grassy Terrain, Rototiller, powder immunity, Grass Pelt, Flower Veil, lul)

 

[TKGriffiths]

Celebi has Thunder Wave and/or Giga Drain and survives +1 Ice Fang so it's definitely a decent check. And the chance of Gyarados 2HKOing with unboosted Ice Fang after leftovers is <1%

 

[Flamebot]

There is a reason I posted the Ice fang eq water fall set, it deals with alot of it's check (and some counters very on mega evolve or not tho). Things that resist those are about its only counter, and can usally be Patched up by one Pokemon. I would post my team and explain how it works with Gyarados (and seldomly does the team lose unless I make a mistake) but this isn't team building thread. Anyways, it honestly has few counters (And some counters to normal on check or dont even threaten normal Gyarados and vise versia) . The thing is, is that if you are running this set, it's very easy to build a team around it. I love Gyarados lately :D. I also think most Ferrothorns I went against were suppot or stall and the players just didnt run power whip?

 

[Swagata]

Celebi has Thunder Wave and/or Giga Drain and survives +1 Ice Fang so it's definitely a decent check. And the chance of Gyarados 2HKOing with unboosted Ice Fang after leftovers is <1%

Most grass types are good checks/counters, I'd say Celebi and Rotom-C in particular though I realize Rotom-C isn't very popular since its main niche was to counter rain.

Most teams will have other things like Talonflame or Volcarona or some bulky special wall to deal with that, why would anyone keep Gyarados in if its not enough to deal with it.?

 

[bwebber]

Why do you think Taunt forces Aegislash it out? It's Aegislash's attacks Gyarados should be worried about, Shadow Ball/Sacred Sword do about 40% and 60% respectively to normal/mega Gyarados respectively. It's Earthquake being a 1HKO on Blade Aegislash (or 2HKO on Shield) that forces it out, not Taunt.

No, I know it forces it out. I realize it's probably not the best thing Gyarados could be doing but I've had decent success with it. It's toned down as of late, but the SD + KS Aegislash is still fairly common, and people have never stayed in after I've prevented them from using KS.

Again, it's just mainly for GourVenant, two common switch ins to Gyarados. Aegislash is just the most frequent situation.

 

[TKGriffiths]

No, I know it forces it out. I realize it's probably not the best thing Gyarados could be doing but I've had decent success with it. It's toned down as of late, but the SD + KS Aegislash is still fairly common, and people have never stayed in after I've prevented them from using KS.

Again, it's just mainly for GourVenant, two common switch ins to Gyarados. Aegislash is just the most frequent situation.

Mate you're not making any sense. The only moves Aegislash has that Taunt stops are Swords Dance and King's Shield which are irrelevant to you. If it uses Swords Dance you can simply 2HKO with Earthquake, if it uses King's Shield worst case scenario he blocks an Earthquake, best case scenario you get a free Dragon Dance. You WANT him to use these moves because he's just wasting his own turns.

Taunt is definitely a great move on Gyarados it's just not useful against Aegislash.

 

[bwebber]

Mate you're not making any sense. The only moves Aegislash has that Taunt stops are Swords Dance and King's Shield which are irrelevant to you. If it uses Swords Dance you can simply 2HKO with Earthquake, if it uses King's Shield worst case scenario he blocks an Earthquake, best case scenario you get a free Dragon Dance. You WANT him to use these moves because he's just wasting his own turns.

Taunt is definitely a great move on Gyarados it's just not useful against Aegislash.

The point isn't to KO Aegislash. It's to KO Gyarados' counters like Rotom and Trevenant and beat them. Aegislash has been easier to beat for me.

 

[skies]

I use Ferrothorn and have NEVER failed to beat a Gyarados, and the Mega version has a Grass weakness so is usually OHKO'd by Power Whip

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 228-270 (68.6 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 141-167 (40 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 189-223 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Factoring in the low accuracy of Power Whip and the fact that Mega Gyarados can hit it on the switch, there is a possibility it will win! Don't go disregarding Mega Gyarados because of Ferrothorn.

 

[eesang]

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 228-270 (68.6 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 141-167 (40 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 189-223 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Factoring in the low accuracy of Power Whip and the fact that Mega Gyarados can hit it on the switch, there is a possibility it will win! Don't go disregarding Mega Gyarados because of Ferrothorn.

Ferrothorn will usually switch in on the Dragon Dance and either outrace you or will cripple you with T-Wave + Leech Seed + Power Whip, leaving you open to be revenge killed.

I wouldn't bother with using Dragon Dance until Ferrothorn is dead or dying, because it can force Mega Gya out or at least leave it crippled.

 

[LoDart210]

So, I've been using a Mega Gyarados with DDance, Equake, Ice Fang, and Waterfall using the EV's I found here on this thread

206 (might be 216) Speed/ 252+ attack/ rest HP

This set was touted as being able to outspeed max greninja at +1

I tried it out, it was good, certainly not lucklustre, but, just good.

Then I realized I didn't care about outspeeding greninja at +1 because at +1 I'm probably setting up to smack rotom or dragonite or something.

Is there a more bulky spread I can use that doesn't sacrifice TOO much speed, while retaining the bulk to live a neutral physical hit after base Gyarados's intimidate? Because I use Gyarados on occasion to buffer physical attackers before I decided to start setting up.

 

[Swagata]

So, I've been using a Mega Gyarados with DDance, Equake, Ice Fang, and Waterfall using the EV's I found here on this thread

206 (might be 216) Speed/ 252+ attack/ rest HP

This set was touted as being able to outspeed max greninja at +1

I tried it out, it was good, certainly not lucklustre, but, just good.

Then I realized I didn't care about outspeeding greninja at +1 because at +1 I'm probably setting up to smack rotom or dragonite or something.

Is there a more bulky spread I can use that doesn't sacrifice TOO much speed, while retaining the bulk to live a neutral physical hit after base Gyarados's intimidate? Because I use Gyarados on occasion to buffer physical attackers before I decided to start setting up.

You can use this:
Gyarados(M) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 176 Spd / 252 Atk / 80 HP
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance

It gives fair bulk to take a few hits and can outspeed most un-scarfed pokemon if you set jolly nature after one DD. But you better chose to team mates carefully since it is weak to fighting types(after evolving) and one of the biggest threat is mach punch.

 

[Martingale]

Up until this generation, I will be honest. I hated Gyarados. Something about it irked me. Maybe because in DPPt I couldn't take down my friend's one. This also applies to Breloom. Despite my former bitterness, I must sing the praises of mono-attacking bulky DD RestTalk Gyarados (phew that's a mouthful). This thing. This beautiful thing. It's saved me from a pitiful defeat too many times to count. My favourite battle with him was my first: Going from 5-1 down, playing mind games with a King's Shield/ Secret Sword/ Shadow Ball/ Shadow Sneak Aegi. I danced a lot. I was within KO range from a Shadow Sneak, so I mega-evolved and Rested. Sleep Talk pulled Waterfall and five turns later the game was over.

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Impish Nature, 252HP/4Atk/152Def/100Def
-Waterfall
-Dragon Dance
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

The beast swims among us. The EVs for this set are unusual, max HP, even defenses in both forms (I'm a little crazy about symmetry, don't judge). Only a touch of Attack EVs because Gyara doesn't really need attack investment, base 155 are you kidding. You play this leviathan very simply. DD when you're not in immediate danger of dying, Rest when you are. Let SleepTalk do its thing for two turns, lather, rinse, repeat. Then it's time to visit Opponent's Team Falls. May I just say, lol @ WoW Rotom-W. Never expects the Rest. Toxic Gliscor too.

Water resists? For the most part, after a few DD's I don't mind unless you're a Ludicolo or Kingdra. Straight-up counter? Ferrothorn. Damn I hate this thing. Almost enough to make me run Magnezone. Heatran does a damn good job of scaring the steels that cause Gyara trouble (phasing Skarmory, Genesect and Scizor shenanigans, and the aforementioned spikeball). Everything else, Gyara can handle. I love this guy.

EDIT: Whoops there's an almost identical moveset in the OP only with different EVs. Oh well. Calling attention to its awesomeness.

 

[Megoodraggon]

Been using an offensive core of Galvantula/MGyarados/Bisharp that's been working out pretty well. Galv can tidily take care of Magic Bouncers by himself and set up Sticky Web, then Gyara can come in with Intimidate and 252 HP EVs (as I've got SW) to set up DDances and sweep. Meanwhile Bisharp deters Defog. I have an Aegislash for RS but I haven't really seen too many Spinners.

 

[Jin White]

Up until this generation, I will be honest. I hated Gyarados. Something about it irked me. Maybe because in DPPt I couldn't take down my friend's one. This also applies to Breloom. Despite my former bitterness, I must sing the praises of mono-attacking bulky DD RestTalk Gyarados (phew that's a mouthful). This thing. This beautiful thing. It's saved me from a pitiful defeat too many times to count. My favourite battle with him was my first: Going from 5-1 down, playing mind games with a King's Shield/ Secret Sword/ Shadow Ball/ Shadow Sneak Aegi. I danced a lot. I was within KO range from a Shadow Sneak, so I mega-evolved and Rested. Sleep Talk pulled Waterfall and five turns later the game was over.

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Impish Nature, 252HP/4Atk/152Def/100Def
-Waterfall
-Dragon Dance
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

The beast swims among us. The EVs for this set are unusual, max HP, even defenses in both forms (I'm a little crazy about symmetry, don't judge). Only a touch of Attack EVs because Gyara doesn't really need attack investment, base 155 are you kidding. You play this leviathan very simply. DD when you're not in immediate danger of dying, Rest when you are. Let SleepTalk do its thing for two turns, lather, rinse, repeat. Then it's time to visit Opponent's Team Falls. May I just say, lol @ WoW Rotom-W. Never expects the Rest. Toxic Gliscor too.

Water resists? For the most part, after a few DD's I don't mind unless you're a Ludicolo or Kingdra. Straight-up counter? Ferrothorn. Damn I hate this thing. Almost enough to make me run Magnezone. Heatran does a damn good job of scaring the steels that cause Gyara trouble (phasing Skarmory, Genesect and Scizor shenanigans, and the aforementioned spikeball). Everything else, Gyara can handle. I love this guy.

EDIT: Whoops there's an almost identical moveset in the OP only with different EVs. Oh well. Calling attention to its awesomeness.

I'm quite interested in this set. Do you think RestTalk Gyara pairs well with the Gyaradosite, or is base forme Gyarados better suited for the same slot?

Regular Gyara's got arguably better defensive typing (resistance to Fighting, immunity to Ground), and has the added bonuses of leftovers, permanent Intimidate, and not taking up a mega slot. I imagine as with any Mega Gyara evo you hold on to the base forme for all its advantages until it's necessary to Mega Evolve for some specific purpose: the added bulk, dropping the flying-typing, Mold Breaker Waterfall, etc. Can you talk about how you play your RestTalk Mega Gyara, or do you have any good replays?

I'm also wondering if Suicune, with the extra bulk, doesn't do the same thing better or if you think they're different beasts all together. Of course Mega Gyara isn't instantly walled by Gastrodon, Jellicent, Toxicroak and friends and actually turns them into liabilities. Basically I've been wanting to use a RestTalk Gyarados but wasn't convinced about its viability.

 

[Martingale]

I'm quite interested in this set. Do you think RestTalk Gyara pairs well with the Gyaradosite, or is base forme Gyarados better suited for the same slot?

Regular Gyara's got arguably better defensive typing (resistance to Fighting, immunity to Ground), and has the added bonuses of leftovers, permanent Intimidate, and not taking up a mega slot. I imagine as with any Mega Gyara evo you hold on to the base forme for all its advantages until its necessary to Mega Evolve for some specific purpose: the added bulk, dropping the flying-typing, Mold Breaker Waterfall, etc. Can you talk about how you play your RestTalk Mega Gyara, or do you have any good replays?

I'm also wondering if Suicune, with the extra bulk, doesn't do the same thing better or if you think they're different beasts all together. Of course Mega Gyara isn't instantly walled by Gastrodon, Jellicent, Toxicroak and friends and actually turns them into liabilities. Basically I've been wanting to use a RestTalk Gyarados but wasn't convinced about its viability.

A lot of very interesting questions there. For the first part, I would definitely say that Gyaradosite is a good choice for RestTalk. I'm going to just compare them versus 252/252 Attacks Mew, using Base 100 Normal and Special Attacks, assuming it switched in after Intimidate:

Normal Gyarados w/ Leftovers:
252+ Atk Mew (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Gyarados: 93-110 (23.6 - 27.9%) -- 86.5% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Mew (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Gyarados: 90-107 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mega-Gyarados:
252+ Atk Mew (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Mega Gyarados: 73-87 (18.5 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ SpA Mew (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Mega Gyarados: 73-87 (18.5 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO

The difference between normal Gyarados with Leftovers and Mega-Gyara, defensively, is very small, but Mega-Gyara has a touch more survivability. When it comes to typing, both have merits: Water/Flying is sturdier as typing, but Electric sends fear through any user, and with Rotom-W being almost omnipresent, it's not comfortable. Water/Dark loses Fighting and Bug resist and Ground immunity, but gains Dark and Ghost resists as well as a Psychic immunity. It's an odd trade-off and oftentimes, not worth it. It requires even more careful play.

I don't have any good replays because I generally forget to click save replay as the feature was down for so long (that and my battling is atrocious!). However, when playing with it, I study the physical attackers through some baiting with my defensive core. Generally I use Gyarados mid to late game. If Gyarados gets in, all's well, and you can Dragon Dance for at least one turn. Then, it's a game of avoiding SE damage. In the anecdote of a mixed Aegislash battle, where it has Ghost/Fighting attacks both SE and NVE to Mega-Gyara, it's better to stay in normal Forme as long as you can. RestTalk Gyarados is unlikely to be broken easily by anything other than SE damage, and because Mega-Gyarados has a rather different damage chart, it's interesting to play with.

However... Normal Forme Gyarados has its advantages, in resistances. Mega-Gyarados has an astronomical Attack stat, even univnvested, and is not stopped cold by Water Absorbers and does huge damage to those not named Jellicent. Offensively, Mega-Gyarados performs better. Defensively, Normal Forme Gyarados does better. This is where one has a problem...

Why I like using Gyaradosite, though, is the choice. You lose passive recovery on Normal Forme but you have the option to change up your resistances when the situation calls for it. You can play mind-games with your opponent also: if you evidently have no other Megas, chances are they won't switch Rotom-W in on you, fearing Mold Breaker Earthquake.

By all means, do try RestTalk Gyarados, normal and Mega options are both viable. Suicune is interesting also, but in all honesty, I would prefer to use Gyarados: Suicune has become a one-trick pony (who hasn't heard of CroCune?), and generally people can suss it out by seeing it alone and counter it, and is hard walled by the very same things that wall normal RestTalk Gyarados. The difference is that Gyarados has a vast array of movesets that are viable, which makes this particular set a bit more surprising. Suicune's predictability hurts it for sure.

TL;DR try bulky mono-attacking mega-gyarados because idk it's good and stuff

 

[Colossus]

Does Tauntrados still work? Also, is Bounce the best move next to pair with Waterfall for a non-Mega DD Gyarados?

 

[Seth Vilo]

On the topic of RestTalk Mega Gyarados, another HUGE perk is has over something like Suicune is an immunity to Trick/Switcheroo thanks to the Mega stone. I remember back in DPP I ran and loved that same set for normal Gyarados, but was perpetually screwed over by Trick users completely shutting him down. It got so bad I ran Air Mail on it to stop that. But that set looks incredible, and I want to run it, both for disruption and nostalgia. Having another Knock Off absorber is always good too.

 

[ryan]

Does Tauntrados still work? Also, is Bounce the best move next to pair with Waterfall for a non-Mega DD Gyarados?

Generally, it's one of the best choices, yes. It's especially notable for hitting Mega Venusaur, which can check it fairly well unless it's running RestTalk.

Taunt Gyarados is something I don't think I've seen in BW or XY because it generally has the bulk to keep up Substitutes against a variety of attackers while also being able to block status through this means. On top of that, the only common phasers that can outright beat it are Skarmory and the occasional Whirlwind Mandibuzz, unlike in previous generations where Roar and/or Whirlwind were really common.

I'd also like to add on that another perk of utilizing RestTalk Mega Gyarados is that you can Mega Evolve whenever it is the most convenient for you. This means that you can use your Mega Gyarados to check the opponent's Keldeo and their Bisharp all with one Pokemon, which is something that I don't think any other Pokemon can do. I mean, Azumarill can switch into either of them once or maybe twice, but that's about it. This is a really big part of using RestTalk Mega Gyarados effectively. Unlike other Mega Evolutions, you almost never want to race to get Mega Evolve your Gyarados.

 

[Jaroda]

Taunt on Gyarados is potentially amazing at times. The amount of extra turns to Dance you can get are great. Your opponent gets so effing pissed when they throw out Skarmory for example to take a hit Whirlwind you out, only to become entirely useless afterwards and they're forced to switch out netting you additional dances. Water is a very good offensive type so you can get by with brute force and two moves the majority of the time I would say, but don't underestimate a fast Taunt. It's really helped me more than a third coverage move most of the times for reasons specifically like Skarmory and even Ferrothorn.