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Pokémon Gyarados
- Thread starter azureleaf17
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No, it doesn't learn it. A shame though.
In my experience after using it quite some times, the best thing about it´s mega it´s the stats increase. The only real use of mold breaker is for levitating pokemon, it´s type change gives it new weakness and that´s lame too.. however it´s defensive stat increase helps it live a bit longer. And the lack of a real Dark-type STAB is really disapointing
On the Mega Gyarados Offensive DD set, it may be worth noting that holding off the mega evolution until necessary may benefit more than an immediate mega evolve when moxie is the ability, as you can garner the attack bonuses, then ME when you expect to need Mold Breaker the next turn.
I realize we're long past analyzing Gyarados, but I'd like to give my two cents. I wanted a set that utilizes Mega Gyarados's new-found bulk while not being as passive as the RestTalk set, and I came up with this:
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate (Mold Breaker)
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 44 SDef / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
The given EVs allow it to always OHKO max HP Tyranitar at +1, and outspeed Jolly Terrakion at +1. HP is maxed out to provide overall bulk, and the reamining EVs are thrown into Special Defense, although they could just as easily be put in Defense, or even into Attack (maybe enough to OHKO 4 HP Rotom-W when unboosted).
I've been testing this quite a lot recently, and it's quite effective. It's more bulky than you might imagine, and still packs quite a punch, even without Life Orb. It's pulled off many a sweep for me.
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate (Mold Breaker)
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 44 SDef / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
The given EVs allow it to always OHKO max HP Tyranitar at +1, and outspeed Jolly Terrakion at +1. HP is maxed out to provide overall bulk, and the reamining EVs are thrown into Special Defense, although they could just as easily be put in Defense, or even into Attack (maybe enough to OHKO 4 HP Rotom-W when unboosted).
I've been testing this quite a lot recently, and it's quite effective. It's more bulky than you might imagine, and still packs quite a punch, even without Life Orb. It's pulled off many a sweep for me.
Does anyone have any good counters against DD Gyarados->Mega Gyarados while using a very defensive team?
Every time I see a Gyarados while one of my non-offensive Pokemon are out, I'm often forced to switch, giving Gyarados a free turn to DD. My problem is that Scizor can't hit hard nor fast enough, and Goodra (with thunderbolt) will die easily from an Earthquake or Ice Fang after 1 DD. Even if I use Charizard Y with Drought, Waterfall still OHKOs me.
Which one of these would be best to counter Gyarados?
Skarmory / Gliscor / Tentacruel / Goodra / Scizor / Charizard Y
Every time I see a Gyarados while one of my non-offensive Pokemon are out, I'm often forced to switch, giving Gyarados a free turn to DD. My problem is that Scizor can't hit hard nor fast enough, and Goodra (with thunderbolt) will die easily from an Earthquake or Ice Fang after 1 DD. Even if I use Charizard Y with Drought, Waterfall still OHKOs me.
Which one of these would be best to counter Gyarados?
Skarmory / Gliscor / Tentacruel / Goodra / Scizor / Charizard Y
Out of those only Skarmory is suited to stop Gyara but only if it has Whirlwind, otherwise he will just go for +2 and 2hko. To be honest, that team of yours is extremly weak to Gyara its no wonder u have trouble with it, he can easily ohko 5 of your pokes at +1.
One of the best overall counter is probably Ferrothorn, Gyara cant do shit against it and takes heavy dmg from Power Whip.
It's true, Gyarados is my team's primary weakness, as I honestly barely ever lose with this team except for those who run Gyara. Where could I put Ferrothorn in place of my team? It could replace Skarmory as a SR user, but then I lose out on Whirlind to do switch-ins for SR.
If your Skarmory has Whirlwind you should be fine as long as you dont wait for Gyara to get to +2, ofc you can get flinch haxed but normaly Skarm can stop Gyara without much trouble. However, you must be aware of the fact that you cant phaze Gyara out when its your opponents last pokemon so some caution is needed. I dont think u need to try and force Ferro into your team just because of Gyara, Skarm is a solid answer when used correctly.
Has anyone ever used the 'Charizard counter' Gyarados sets?
Gyarados @ Chesto Berry
Intimidate
Impish
252 HP, 164 Def, 88 in something else
- Rest
- Thunder Wave
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Sleep Talk
The given physical bulk with intimidate avoids the 2HKO from Mega Charizard X's Dragon Claw excluding Stealth Rock, but I often find that players will try to evolve Charizard in the beginning of the match, before their hazards are in place (maybe I'm fighting inexperienced players?). You do have to watch out for the uncommon ThunderPunch that might be carried for Azumarill.
Whether or not the last 88 EVs are placed in special defense, Gyarados is only 3HKOd by Fire Blast in the sun, with none of Mega Charizard Y's other attacks except for the rare HP Electric doing more damage.
On Gyarados' side, 0 Atk Stone Edge always OHKOs 4 / 0 ZardY while guaranteeing a 2HKO on ZardX. Earthquake is my personal preference for ZardX, because Stone "Miss" is bound to kick in. If accuracy isn't an issue for you, you can run Sleep Talk to function after the Chesto Berry or possibly Roar/Dragon Tail to parashuffle. Here are some possible scenarios in battle:
The opponent sent out Charizard!
Ferrothorn, come back! Go, Gyarados! Gyarados's Intimidate lowered the opponent's Charizard's Attack!
The opponent's Charizard is Mega Evolving! The opponent's Mega Charizard used Dragon Dance!
Attack is now +0 and speed is +1.
The opponent's Charizard used Dragon Claw!
Gyarados took 45%. Gyarados used Thunder Wave! The opponent's Charizard is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Gyarados used Stone Edge! CharizardX took 57%. Charizard used Dragon Claw! Gyarados took 47%.
Gyarados used Rest! Gyarados fell asleep and became healthy! Gyarados's Chesto Berry woke it up!
CharizardX used Dragon Claw! Gyarados took 43%.
Gyarados used Earthquake! The foe's Charizard fainted!
The opponent sent out Charizard!
Tyranitar, come back! Go, Gyarados!
Gyarados's Intimidate lowered the opponent's Charizard's Attack!
The opponent's Charizard is Mega Evolving! The opponent's Mega Charizard used SolarBeam! Gyarados takes 39%.
The opponent's CharizardY used Fire Blast! Gyarados takes 41%.
Gyarados used Thunder Wave! The foe's CharizardY is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Gyarados used Stone Edge! ZardY takes 100%. Faints
The idea is to Thunder Wave first. Either you paralyze MCharizard for another teammate to handle later, or you paralyze the switch in (mostly electric types).
Gyarados seems to be the most reliable switch in to Charizard, as it can handle both forms long as it doesn't pack electric coverage. Air Balloon Heatran comes close behind, but you do not want to switch into anything that's not fire/ground coverage because then they'll EQ next turn to remove you AND a 'Charizard counter' Heatran would have to pack a Rock attack (Stone Edge, Ancient Power), both options needing attack/SpA investment to do the job, which deviates from the usual, more effective Heatran sets.
Gyarados @ Chesto Berry
Intimidate
Impish
252 HP, 164 Def, 88 in something else
- Rest
- Thunder Wave
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Sleep Talk
The given physical bulk with intimidate avoids the 2HKO from Mega Charizard X's Dragon Claw excluding Stealth Rock, but I often find that players will try to evolve Charizard in the beginning of the match, before their hazards are in place (maybe I'm fighting inexperienced players?). You do have to watch out for the uncommon ThunderPunch that might be carried for Azumarill.
Whether or not the last 88 EVs are placed in special defense, Gyarados is only 3HKOd by Fire Blast in the sun, with none of Mega Charizard Y's other attacks except for the rare HP Electric doing more damage.
On Gyarados' side, 0 Atk Stone Edge always OHKOs 4 / 0 ZardY while guaranteeing a 2HKO on ZardX. Earthquake is my personal preference for ZardX, because Stone "Miss" is bound to kick in. If accuracy isn't an issue for you, you can run Sleep Talk to function after the Chesto Berry or possibly Roar/Dragon Tail to parashuffle. Here are some possible scenarios in battle:
The opponent sent out Charizard!
Ferrothorn, come back! Go, Gyarados! Gyarados's Intimidate lowered the opponent's Charizard's Attack!
The opponent's Charizard is Mega Evolving! The opponent's Mega Charizard used Dragon Dance!
Attack is now +0 and speed is +1.
The opponent's Charizard used Dragon Claw!
Gyarados took 45%. Gyarados used Thunder Wave! The opponent's Charizard is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Gyarados used Stone Edge! CharizardX took 57%. Charizard used Dragon Claw! Gyarados took 47%.
Gyarados used Rest! Gyarados fell asleep and became healthy! Gyarados's Chesto Berry woke it up!
CharizardX used Dragon Claw! Gyarados took 43%.
Gyarados used Earthquake! The foe's Charizard fainted!
The opponent sent out Charizard!
Tyranitar, come back! Go, Gyarados!
Gyarados's Intimidate lowered the opponent's Charizard's Attack!
The opponent's Charizard is Mega Evolving! The opponent's Mega Charizard used SolarBeam! Gyarados takes 39%.
The opponent's CharizardY used Fire Blast! Gyarados takes 41%.
Gyarados used Thunder Wave! The foe's CharizardY is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Gyarados used Stone Edge! ZardY takes 100%. Faints
The idea is to Thunder Wave first. Either you paralyze MCharizard for another teammate to handle later, or you paralyze the switch in (mostly electric types).
Gyarados seems to be the most reliable switch in to Charizard, as it can handle both forms long as it doesn't pack electric coverage. Air Balloon Heatran comes close behind, but you do not want to switch into anything that's not fire/ground coverage because then they'll EQ next turn to remove you AND a 'Charizard counter' Heatran would have to pack a Rock attack (Stone Edge, Ancient Power), both options needing attack/SpA investment to do the job, which deviates from the usual, more effective Heatran sets.
loving using mega gyarados. Imo the best set is DD +3 attacks. It also exells at mega-mindgames, because mega and regular gyarados have different checks/counters and I love to DD and then mega because the opponent switches into a regular gyarados counter and gets wrecked by the mega form. Being a very reliable check to mega venu is very nice too. I am actually noticing more mega gyarados on the ladder now as well
Shouldn't one of those say SDef? Because I don't think you could get Def and SDef symmetrical by dumping 252 EVs into its Def while neglecting its SDef.
I fucking love Gyarados and his Mega. Gyarados is one of the few Pokemons with Mega Evolution that is very usable without mega evolving. I find Gyarados to be versatile and I like the choice between Intimidate and Mold Breaker. The underwhelming thing about the Mega, is that Gyarados doesn't know any physical Dark attacks, but losing the double weakness towards Electric attack is sure nice.
Shrimps (Gyarados) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 196 HP / 88 Spd / 80 SDef / 144 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance
I'm not 100% sold on the EV Spread and I change it every once and a while. I'm not sure how much speed does it need. It can get out speeded by anyone with 110 speed even after a Dragon Dance.
Shrimps (Gyarados) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 196 HP / 88 Spd / 80 SDef / 144 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance
I'm not 100% sold on the EV Spread and I change it every once and a while. I'm not sure how much speed does it need. It can get out speeded by anyone with 110 speed even after a Dragon Dance.
For DD Gyarados and MGyarados, I think there should only be enough speed EVs to outrun base 115s (Starmie's LO TBolt) as almost everything else faster isn't of much concern.?Alakazam's Focus Blast....I'd rather stay unevolved until it's desashed. Greninja's U Turn? Stay non-mega. Same for Hawlucha's HJK. The biggest concern is probably Jolteon, but I'm almost sure teams will have an answer for it.
How much speed do I need to out speed Starmie?
There are so many times that I don't Mega Evolve with Gyarados and that's why its one of my favourite megas as his mega form works differently. I usually mega evolve when I notice that the other team has different Pokemons with Electric and Rock attacks, or when I see someone abusing Knock off or has a decent number of Dark, Ghost and Psychic pokemons in his team.
I only wish Gyarados was capable of learning a physical Dark Stab attack. What the fuck where Gamefreak thinking changing Gyarados into half Dark when he doesn't know learn decent Dark attack.
@ lv 100 meta
Adamant: 176 speed EVs
Jolly: 88 speed EVs
@ lv 50 meta
Adamant: 172 speed EVs
Jolly: 84 speed EVs
Personally, I would roll with Adamant for that noticeable boost in power.
I have 88 Speed but I run Adamant. If I want to run Adamant, my Gyarados will have to lose some bulk which isn't very favourable.
I guess I'll only know the best option by trying it out.
I love popping the MegaEvo for a "surprise!" bulk or type change when people are looking to pick off that last 30%:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-108066092
Mega Gyarados really is unique in its ability to pop the Evo when it wants instead of ASAP like every other Mega. Makes for some fun mind games.
I also love popping the Evo and setting up a second DD in Rotom-W's face.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-108221584
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-108066092
Mega Gyarados really is unique in its ability to pop the Evo when it wants instead of ASAP like every other Mega. Makes for some fun mind games.
I also love popping the Evo and setting up a second DD in Rotom-W's face.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-108221584
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I feel like most bulkier sets are best left to regular Gyarados. Despite M-Gyara's buff to both defenses, it will sorely miss Leftovers recovery, Intimidate, and arguably better typing and STAB. Even with the sleep mechanics being brought back to the way they were, Rest is still somewhat unreliable because due to the plethora of weaknesses M-Gyara has, you'll probably spend more time switching than burning away sleep turns.
I believe M-Gyara's best roles are as either a hole-puncher or late-game sweeper. You want to a.) Set up on a switch and do as much damage as possible before going down, or b.) Bring it in late-game when faster threats are gone (there are quite a few), get the easy +1, and sweep better than a Swiffer.
I believe M-Gyara's best roles are as either a hole-puncher or late-game sweeper. You want to a.) Set up on a switch and do as much damage as possible before going down, or b.) Bring it in late-game when faster threats are gone (there are quite a few), get the easy +1, and sweep better than a Swiffer.
I'm lol-ing so hard at this guy whose dp is an Entei but is so sadly unaware.
Mega Gyarados has many weaknesses but it also gains resistances to two common attacking types in Dark and Ghost. And unlike normal Gyarados, Mega Gyara can take an electric attack and takes less damage from SR. I don't think the weakness to Grass and Bug is really that bad, but being weak to fighting and Fairy kinda sucks. What I usually do, is get rid of any Pokemon with fighting moves then I mega evolve.
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I've been using the bulky Sub+DD Moxie Gyarados a lot recently. Saying that it does work is an understatement. This thing wins me games.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-116058953
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-116086254 - made a risky play staying in on a Starmie; figured the TBolt was way too obvious but hey, my risk paid off!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-116058953
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-116086254 - made a risky play staying in on a Starmie; figured the TBolt was way too obvious but hey, my risk paid off!
While it does seem very odd and dumb of GameFreak to give Gyarados the Dark Type with a severely lacking Dark Stab; I find that, even with say, Crunch, there wouldn't be any move I'd replace it with on the standard:
DD, Waterfall, Earthquake, Ice Fang
set. The coverage provided along with the ease of setting up one, if not TWO DDs make it such a great Mega.
Next to Mega Mawile and Mega Tyrant, Mega Gyarados just does SO much, it's crazy good.
DD, Waterfall, Earthquake, Ice Fang
set. The coverage provided along with the ease of setting up one, if not TWO DDs make it such a great Mega.
Next to Mega Mawile and Mega Tyrant, Mega Gyarados just does SO much, it's crazy good.
While Crunch doesn't add much coverage for Gyarados (As Mold Breaker Earthquake is a better option to hit Aegislash and it can hit Gengar) but a STAB Crunch coming off a 155 Attack must be really scary and after a Dragon Dance or two it can really punch holes and the defence drop is nice too. It's also Gyarados' only way to 1hko Deoxys-D
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