SV UU H-arc sand with specs hydreigon to provide a nuke in the back. SV UU (peaked somewhere around 1650'ish before dropping thanks to testing other teams)

HydreigonTheChild · Feb 20, 2024

https://pokepast.es/af957546b19f92bb

:hydreigon:

To all the people who say specs drei is bad: Doubters always lose

First of all the first pokemon is hydreigon. Specs drei is stupid good in this meta and i like it so much. Thanks to its coverage in flash cannon and flamethrower you can bust open tinkaton, scizor, tera fairy slowking, but otherwise you want to use draco and dark pulse to bust through the opponent and have them take on the full assault of the powerful stabs behind choice specs. Tera steel allows you to deal with things like latios, scizor BP, kommo-o clicking clanging scales into you, being resistant to ogerpon-c, etc.

H-arc is the next member of the team, what other way to complement a breaker than use another break to support that problem. H-arc is the perfect member to go along it since it can take advantage of holes being punched into other pokemon like scizor being weak for espeed, toxapex eating many hits over the course of a match, and having free switches into other pokemon like mandibuzz, phys def rachi, and can appreciate sp. def chomp taking dark pulses or hits from other mons to get up hazards. Tera normal allows double edge to put on the hurt vs resists like chomp, kommo-o, allows you to revenge via tera normal espeed against many setup sweepers.

Tink is the next member of the team, with air balloon + pickpocket you can steal a lot of stuff like AV from torn-t, azu, and smth even like lefties or boots from tink, scizor, meta, mandi, and more. This also allows you to deal with things like garchomp late game when it may lack the coverage to hit you. Encore is great at shutting down a lot of pressure and forcing 50/50's things like iron crown, take heart manaphy, SD chomp can be forced to be locked into a move that is advantageous for you and take advantage of that. Tera ghost allows you to be a spinblocker in a pinch.... you really dont use it for other things

What better wya to rack up chip dmg on enemies than with sand and rocks themselves... sand and stealth rocks have always been used to chip down enemies and now hippo can make that true. With sp. def it can take on foes like torn-t, zapdos, h-arc, sandy shocks, iron moth, and more without tera. Tera steel allows you to wall latios, torn-t, be immune to toxic, and resist a lot of moves as a result like iron moth energy ball, ogerpon horn leech or power whip, or even triple axel from cinccino.

AV torn-t is the next member of the team, it a great latios answer when you need it to be one and can really annoy the crap out of scarf variants esp if rocks havent been set yet, by scouting latios this means later in the game you can take advantage of it being chipped down to hazards and sandstorm and revenge kill it with h-arc, use tinkaton since it risks not getting enough value so you can easily scout its options then answer accoridingly. It also distrubts a lot of enemies via knock off, a lot of teams best answer is either itself, garchomp, or smth like toxapex which can be u-turned on and doesnt like accumulating a lot of chip via hazards and sand. Tera electric helps in the mirror MU, rotom-w MU, and makes it immune to t wave

Rotom-w is the last member of the team, thanks to it being a great chomp answer at any point of the game, being able to wear down things even more with burn, sand, and hazards making it so even smth like amoonguss, slowking, latios takes 25% per turn. it can also pivot in the dangerous breakers. THe dangerous breakers all appreciate rotom-w luring in mons like sinistcha, amoonguss, hydrapple, zapdos, pex, etc. Pain split is also a somewaht reliable way to heal itself back up and damage the opp's who may fail to KO it and bring it super low on health instead allowing it to just recover big bursts of health at moments. tera fairy makes it the most solid chomp answer, great vs latios, allows it to cover its ass vs moltres-g who you can take a fiery wrath and pivot to a member like h-arc who can revenge kill it after rocks + volt switch prob...

THREATLIST:

1. :iron crown:

this thing is smth u shuold be careful to not allow it to roll ur team... esp on psy terrain it can spam expanding force freely and just take on hydreigon with focus blast.... be careful and use encore tink to stop it

2. :greninja:

in psychic terrain... this will usually cause you to burn a tera to weaken it into espeed range later on or just use torn-t and try to ensure it doesnt freely come in vs pokemon like h-arc, weaken tink, etc cuz this can be a lot of pain you dont want to be in.

3. :ogerpon-cornerstone:

.. without mold breaker tink a t1 ogerpon-c can be a real pain to deal with... SD -> buttons can usually claim a kill but this will usually end in a trade that will be workable around... its very annoying tho turn 1 and you should be careful

4. :manaphy:

Geopolitics · Feb 20, 2024

Hey H>L, cool team. I'm going to make an attempt to not completely upend what you have going on, as each builder kinda has their own style. Instead, I'll just make a few suggestions regarding evs/moveslots: feel free to take the suggestions or completely disregard them, won't hurt my feelings either way.

1) Will-o-Wisp > Double-Edge on H-Arcanine

HydreigonTheChild: Tera normal allows double edge to put on the hurt vs resists like chomp, kommo-o

I think Tera-Normal is good: the boosted caliber on Extremespeed is huge to secure KOs against things which would otherwise be threatening (such as booster Iron Moth, for instance).

You mention that Double-Edge is super good for chunking Garchomp, but I think WoW could be a helpful alternative measure. Double-Edge, from what I can tell, is a 25% chance to 2hko TankChomp with 0 defense EVs. Even if you are to secure the roll, you're chunked to 50% and therefore lose your team's best switch in to things like Energy Ball Iron Moth. Sure, you're still able to come in and revenge kill (especially given H-Arc's usage of Heavy Duty Boots), but it forces you to into a prediction game if Iron Moth comes in following you KO'ing one of your opponent's mons.

Meanwhile, slapping on WoW > Double-Edge on H-Arc gives you the benefit of softening the Garchomp matchup without using H-Arc's health as a resource. This seems helpful for this team in particular given the prominence of certain HO playstyles that enjoy pairing hazardstack TankChomp with Booster/Boots Iron Moth. WoW has the further benefit of tagging potential resists to at least one of H-Arc's STABs (Azumarill [A], Kommo-o [A-], Terrakion [A-], Okidogi [B+], Tyranitar [B+]) and granting you additional leeway against PsyTerrain offense (for instance, in a situation where they send in Hawlucha after you knock out a Pokemon with H-Arc, you are now able to WoW the Hawlucha on a potential SD and curtail a sweep). This change isn't revolutionary by any means, but I think the added utility of WoW is a substantial enough benefit that it is worth mentioning.

2. If Will-o-Wisp > Double-Edge on H-Arcanine, then Thunder Wave > Pain Split on Rotom-W

HydreigonTheChild: Rotom-w is the last member of the team, thanks to it being a great chomp answer [...] Pain split is also a somewaht [sic] reliable way to heal itself back up and damage the opp's who may fail to KO it and bring it super low on health instead allowing it to just recover big bursts of health at moments

This initially seems strange, but I'll explain: Rotom-W seems to be on the team as both a momentum-generating lure and a way to curtain Garchomp. Obviously, Rotom-W will remain a momentum-generating lure this way. With the given Rotom-W spread, you are 2hko'd 87.1% of the time by 5hit Scale Shot from max attack jolly Garchomp after leftovers, without rocks, and without sandstorm damage. This puts Rotom-W in a precarious spot, as the defacto Garchomp switch-in (Air Balloon on Tinkaton notwithstanding) can pretty easily be removed from the game on two favorable Scale Shot rolls. The first change (WoW>Double-Edge) is designed to help cure this defect by statusing Garchomp. While Rotom-W still will have the ability to independently burn Garchomp, I don't think Pain Split is reliable enough to get the nod over dual-status Rotom-W.

Besides me just not liking Pain Split in general, I think Thunder Wave has independent merit: you mention that Iron Crown is a major issue for this team and Thunder Wave is the best way to solve this, imo. Sure, Tinkaton can potentially Encore this into Calm Mind. A more reliable solution to this is once Iron Crown gets a KO (say, by knocking out Tinkaton with Expanding Force on the switch + Tachyon Cutter - which can take Tinkaton down from at least 55.3% and at most 66.2%), you go to Rotom-W (which conveniently always lives Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain, even after rocks) and Thunder Wave it. This obviously opens the game up a lot more for things like Hydreigon (which also does particularly well versus PsyTerrain's Greninja, who generally foregoes Ice Beam for dual STAB + Extrasensory + Sludge Wave).

vs

172 SpA Iron Crown Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Tinkaton in Psychic Terrain: 91-108 (24.3 - 28.8%)
172 SpA Iron Crown Tachyon Cutter (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Tinkaton: 116-140 (31 - 37.4%)

:iron crown:

vs

172 SpA Iron Crown Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash in Psychic Terrain: 217-256 (71.3 - 84.2%)

3. [Super unpopular, but...] Mold Breaker > Pickpocket on Tinkaton

HydreigonTheChild: with air balloon + pickpocket you can steal a lot of stuff like AV from torn-t, azu [...] Encore is great at shutting down a lot of pressure and forcing 50/50's things like iron crown, take heart manaphy, SD chomp can be forced to be locked into a move that is advantageous for you and take advantage of that

I think Pickpocket is objectively cash money, but in practice Tinkaton relies too much on its utility moves to run Pickpocket: especially on this team. Given Rotom-W's lack of reliable recovery (even if you continue to run Pain Split), my few games I used this team I ended up wanting to switch Tinkaton into Torn-T's U-Turn/Knock Off far too often. The problem, due to Pickpocket, was that either switching into Torn-T meant: (1) yay! I have a free item; but (2) oh no, I can no longer use Swords Dance or Encore to stop some of the threats that otherwise overwhelm this team, including but not limited to Iron Crown, Molt-G, and Manaphy. I think Pickpocket has substantial merit on teams where Tinkaton is used as more of an offensive threat (perhaps by foregoing Encore for Play Rough or Stone Edge). However, due to this team's reliance on Encore to shut down major threats and the ease at which Tinkaton switches in to Torn-T, I don't think that it is optimal here (plus, it soften's the matchup versus Oger-C as Mold Breaker enables Tinkaton to always OHKO Oger-C through Sturdy).

In summary, I think this is a really great team that uses a lot of underrated Pokemon (most notably Hippo and Choice Specs Hydreigon) but could be made better - without switching the entire essence of the team - by tweaking a few moves.

HydreigonTheChild · Feb 21, 2024

Geopolitics said:
Hey H>L, cool team. I'm going to make an attempt to not completely upend what you have going on, as each builder kinda has their own style. Instead, I'll just make a few suggestions regarding evs/moveslots: feel free to take the suggestions or completely disregard them, won't hurt my feelings either way.
1) Will-o-Wisp > Double-Edge on H-Arcanine

Ok.... I like the idea where this is coming from... but imagine im clicking head smash into other things.... and then garchomp comes in... i still take recoil dmg and WoW only makes it so that chomp is worn down over time but you mentioned that the recoil is the problem. Garchomp either way gets full hazards up.

Geopolitics said:
3. [Super unpopular, but...] Mold Breaker > Pickpocket on Tinkaton

I understand this.. and its prob a change I can make rn. Swords dance is meant to be more of a "my opp is trying to stall me out, i can take advantage of that" rather than "tinkaton can swords dance because it should break"

Geopolitics said:
2. If Will-o-Wisp > Double-Edge on H-Arcanine, then Thunder Wave > Pain Split on Rotom-W

I think this is reasonable enough... maybe t wave > wisp but yeah... i see the merit of it allowing the teams fast mons to take advantage of slower mons and allows specs drei to break better...

Geopolitics · Feb 21, 2024

HydreigonTheChild said:
Ok.... I like the idea where this is coming from... but imagine im clicking head smash into other things.... and then garchomp comes in... i still take recoil dmg and WoW only makes it so that chomp is worn down over time but you mentioned that the recoil is the problem. Garchomp either way gets full hazards up.

That's a fair point - you assuredly need to predict Garchomp coming in to tag it with WoW, but that doesn't change your state of play either way: if you're serious about 2hko'ing an incoming Garchomp with Double-Edge, you need to predict Garchomp coming in anyway. I look forward to seeing what teams you come up w/ next!

MANSUPER · Feb 21, 2024

Oh, you hit a sore spot. You're right that even with WOW, the knockback from Headbutt is still a problem. And while WOW does weaken Garchomp over time, the risk of being left with low health after self-harming is still high. Yes, Garchomp still sets traps, even if you anticipate his entrance and use WOW.

SV UU H-arc sand with specs hydreigon to provide a nuke in the back. SV UU (peaked somewhere around 1650'ish before dropping thanks to testing other teams)

HydreigonTheChild

Geopolitics

HydreigonTheChild

Geopolitics

MANSUPER

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