Battle Spot Hail Stall

Introduction:

This is my first attempt at a weather team. My gaol is to start hail and to outlast my opponent. I am not trying to make an all out assault on the other player. I use this team for triple battle format.

The Team

Aurorus
@ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
Nature: Modest
Icy Wind
Frost Breath
Rock Throw
Stealth Rock

The initial choice most have for a hail team is Abomasnow, but I didn't want to take this route. I felt as though Aurorus was less fragile. I like the ability to throw in stealth rock as an entry hazard to slowly wear at opponents. Also with it's slow speed I can make sure to get hail going. Also having icy wind to slow down opponents helps my slower team get moves in quicker.


Walrein @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Ice Body
Nature: Bold
Encore
Rest
Brine
Blizzard

With the goal of stalling in mind I needed a good defensive wall. Having rest in his moveset and holding a chesto berry I can keep Walrein going a long time. Also I like that he isn't weak to fire like most ice type pokemon. Also Walrein makes for a good combatant for fire type with the move brine (which doubles power when hp is less than half).


Hariyama @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Brave
Reversal
Knock off
Force palm
Bulk up

Steel type is a big weakness for ice type pokemon, but having Hariyama on the team is a great way to overcome that issue. Thick fat also is helpful when dealing with fire type pokemon. And giving him safety goggles will keep Hariyama alive longer and allowing me to stall longer.


Glaceon @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice body
Nature: Calm
Icy Wind
Frost breath
Blizzard
Hail

Glaceon is a strong special attacker. Which makes blizzard a strong stab attack. Also Glaceon is good in the hp department making for a good tank. And in case something interrupts my hail I can bring it right back up.


Infernape @ Life orb
Ability: Iron Fist
Nature: Adamant
Acrobatics
Close combat
Thunder punch
Fire punch

I need at least one sweeper on the team. Infernape fills that roll nicely while also covering my weakness to steel. I don't have much help combating water type, but thunder punch with iron fist takes care of that. He has a very diverse move pool and helps cover some untouched areas.


Swampert @ Sitrus berry
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Adamant
Protect
Dive
Avalanche
Earthquake

Swampert is great for covering both fire and electric type pokemon. Also it is pretty bulky. I will often wait until later in battle to send out Swampert as a means to stall with protect as my opponent is pumbled with hail.

Conclusion

I think I pretty well have a move pool to cover most types I will encounter. And for the types I do not have covered I should still be able to wear the opponent down with time. Thank you for your time and all constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.

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
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
is a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Battle Spot Leader
Hi HailtheStallteam99 and welcome to Smogon! In order for us to better analyze your team, please include EV spreads in your RMT. It's especially important for defensive teams, even more so for Pokemon with questionable stalling capabilities like Glaceon and Walrein in a meta full of powerful offensive pokemon like Kangaskhan and Gengar.

As for the team itself, hail is a unique choice to use in battle spot. Setting the viability of Hail aside, there are a few quick changes that you should make in your team to make it better due to a few questionable move choices.

Aurorus: Ancient Power > Rock Throw. Rock Throw has zero competitive viability. There's nothing about Rock Throw that makes it a good choice to put on a team. Rock Throw is also a physical move, and you might as well keep all your moves special so that you don't have to spread out your EV investment.
Thunder Wave > Icy Wind. Speed control with Icy Wind is pretty much redundant for your team, since even with -1 speed most fast pokemon will still outspeed you.
Blizzard > Frost Breath. You have an unmissable blizzard as an option. It's a lot better than Frost Breath, which even with a guaranteed critical hit does less damage than Blizzard.

Walrein: Surf > Brine. Brine is way too inconsistent to use successfully. Brine without the secondary boost is not capable of doing anything.

Hariyama: Close Combat > Force Palm. Close Combat is necessary to OHKO a lot of threats, and Force Palm is not consistent. Though you do sacrifice a bit of bulk when you use it, it still is more important than taking multiple hits because Force Palm doesn't take out the opponent.
Bullet Punch > Reversal. You have no good way to maximize your reversal move. Might as well put in a coverage move that allows you to hit fairies super effectively.

Glaceon: Mirror Coat > Frost Breath. You already have blizzard. Frost Breath is an inferior Blizzard under Hail. Use Mirror Coat to surprise any unsuspecting special attackers.

Infernape: Will-o-wisp > Acrobatics. You're holding an item. Acro has 55BP. Therefore it's not good. Might as well burn the opponent to make it easier to stall them out.
Flare Blitz > Fire Punch. You're going to use this as a sweeper. Infernape is frail, so it'll take less damage from recoil than what the opponent will deal to you if you miss out the KO using the weaker Fire Punch.

Swampert: Waterfall > Dive. Waterfall is better in every way.
Roar > Protect. There's no point in trying to hail stall with protect if swampert is also taking hail damage. Might as well phaze out opposing setup sweepers.

I think you should check out the PGL stats to see what kind of moves are commonly used on Pokemon: http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/#single . It's probably the easiest resource at your disposal to make a pokemon viable on Battle Spot.

You probably should consider using a mega evolution as well. You have a Swampert on your team, but why are you holding sitrus over the mega stone? Also, your team desperately needs a ground resist, as it's one of the most common offensive types and you have nothing that can switch into ones from the most common Earthquake spammers: Garchomp and Landorus-T.
 
Last edited:

chuckaboomboom

I believe I can HM02
DragonWhale gave you a lot of good feedback. Make sure to read through it carefully.

I'm legitimately curious. Have you ever used your team in a battle? You should definitely play around with your team and try to make some improvements to your team before you post it in the RMT forum. Hail is a cool concept, but your team can't handle most of the major threats the Battle Spot. Something like a Mega Venusaur is almost an auto-loss.
 
Hello! Nice to see a Triples player! Our player base is so small, so you can bet I'm feelin' happy!

Anyway, Hariyama really needs Fake Out. I want to share this little thread about Triples-specific battle knowledge.

http://pokemon-online.eu/threads/guide-to-all-things-in-triples-teambuilding-strat-etc.13378/

So if you checked the Disruption section of that guide, you might notice that Hariyama can learn a -lot- of those helpful disruption moves, like Wide Guard to protect your team from spread moves, especially ones that your Pokemon are weak to, Fake Out to force a dangerous Pokemon to skip their turn, giving you a chance to knock it out, etc. Your Infernape can also learn Fake Out, and its a faster Fake Out than Hariyama's.

As a general note, entry hazards are generally much less effective in Doubles and Triples due to the lack of switching. You might have to get a bit creative if you really want to force switches on your opponent. The first thing you could try is to give one of your Pokemon the Red Card item.

I don't think Icy Rock extends the turns of Hail caused by Snow Warning. If it does, you can keep it, but if it doesn't, you'll definitely want to change items.
 
Hello! Nice to see a Triples player! Our player base is so small, so you can bet I'm feelin' happy!

Anyway, Hariyama really needs Fake Out. I want to share this little thread about Triples-specific battle knowledge.

http://pokemon-online.eu/threads/guide-to-all-things-in-triples-teambuilding-strat-etc.13378/

So if you checked the Disruption section of that guide, you might notice that Hariyama can learn a -lot- of those helpful disruption moves, like Wide Guard to protect your team from spread moves, especially ones that your Pokemon are weak to, Fake Out to force a dangerous Pokemon to skip their turn, giving you a chance to knock it out, etc. Your Infernape can also learn Fake Out, and its a faster Fake Out than Hariyama's.

As a general note, entry hazards are generally much less effective in Doubles and Triples due to the lack of switching. You might have to get a bit creative if you really want to force switches on your opponent. The first thing you could try is to give one of your Pokemon the Red Card item.

I don't think Icy Rock extends the turns of Hail caused by Snow Warning. If it does, you can keep it, but if it doesn't, you'll definitely want to change items.
Thank you this was very helpful. I def wanna look into Hariyama's Move set.
 
DragonWhale gave you a lot of good feedback. Make sure to read through it carefully.

I'm legitimately curious. Have you ever used your team in a battle? You should definitely play around with your team and try to make some improvements to your team before you post it in the RMT forum. Hail is a cool concept, but your team can't handle most of the major threats the Battle Spot. Something like a Mega Venusaur is almost an auto-loss.
I have been using my team for around a month and already made some changes before even posting this. I swapped out clefable for walrein. My team does alright. I have yet to run into a mega venusaur, but I feel I can handle it. I have more problems with xerneas than anyone else.
 
Hi HailtheStallteam99 and welcome to Smogon! In order for us to better analyze your team, please include EV spreads in your RMT. It's especially important for defensive teams, even more so for Pokemon with questionable stalling capabilities like Glaceon and Walrein in a meta full of powerful offensive pokemon like Kangaskhan and Gengar.

As for the team itself, hail is a unique choice to use in battle spot. Setting the viability of Hail aside, there are a few quick changes that you should make in your team to make it better due to a few questionable move choices.

Aurorus: Ancient Power > Rock Throw. Rock Throw has zero competitive viability. There's nothing about Rock Throw that makes it a good choice to put on a team. Rock Throw is also a physical move, and you might as well keep all your moves special so that you don't have to spread out your EV investment.
Thunder Wave > Icy Wind. Speed control with Icy Wind is pretty much redundant for your team, since even with -1 speed most fast pokemon will still outspeed you.
Blizzard > Frost Breath. You have an unmissable blizzard as an option. It's a lot better than Frost Breath, which even with a guaranteed critical hit does less damage than Blizzard.

Walrein: Surf > Brine. Brine is way too inconsistent to use successfully. Brine without the secondary boost is not capable of doing anything.

Hariyama: Close Combat > Force Palm. Close Combat is necessary to OHKO a lot of threats, and Force Palm is not consistent. Though you do sacrifice a bit of bulk when you use it, it still is more important than taking multiple hits because Force Palm doesn't take out the opponent.
Bullet Punch > Reversal. You have no good way to maximize your reversal move. Might as well put in a coverage move that allows you to hit fairies super effectively.

Glaceon: Mirror Coat > Frost Breath. You already have blizzard. Frost Breath is an inferior Blizzard under Hail. Use Mirror Coat to surprise any unsuspecting special attackers.

Infernape: Will-o-wisp > Acrobatics. You're holding an item. Acro has 55BP. Therefore it's not good. Might as well burn the opponent to make it easier to stall them out.
Flare Blitz > Fire Punch. You're going to use this as a sweeper. Infernape is frail, so it'll take less damage from recoil than what the opponent will deal to you if you miss out the KO using the weaker Fire Punch.

Swampert: Waterfall > Dive. Waterfall is better in every way.
Roar > Protect. There's no point in trying to hail stall with protect if swampert is also taking hail damage. Might as well phaze out opposing setup sweepers.

I think you should check out the PGL stats to see what kind of moves are commonly used on Pokemon: http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/#single . It's probably the easiest resource at your disposal to make a pokemon viable on Battle Spot.

You probably should consider using a mega evolution as well. You have a Swampert on your team, but why are you holding sitrus over the mega stone? Also, your team desperately needs a ground resist, as it's one of the most common offensive types and you have nothing that can switch into ones from the most common Earthquake spammers: Garchomp and Landorus-T.
I took many of your points into consideration and I thank you. I have switched out rock throw for rock slide on aurorus. I have taken the hold item off Infernape. And switched out brine for surf on walrein. Thank you for the suggestions and I am looking into some of the other ones as well.
 
I have been using my team for around a month and already made some changes before even posting this. I swapped out clefable for walrein. My team does alright. I have yet to run into a mega venusaur, but I feel I can handle it. I have more problems with xerneas than anyone else.

Xerneas is banned. I like the idea of a Hail team, but there are a couple big issues with your team. First and foremost is you need a Mega. You just gotta have 'me these days, there's really no way around it(though it would be kind of amazing if someone did good without one.) If you are going to play Triples(I don't), you should have more moves suited for a format where there are more than two Pokemon on the field. The most obvious example is Protect, though moves like Feint, Fake Out, Wide Guard, Follow Me and Rage Powder, which have little or no use, for the most part, in Singles, can be quite great in Doubles and Triples-there's no reason to play Triples if you don't utilize these kinds of moves, since you will be at a significant disadvantage. You've got spread moves covered(obviously), but it's worth noting that field conditions(you clearly already have Hail) are extra helpful, since you have multiple Pokemon out that can benefit from them. For instance, a lot of your Pokemon would function well in Trick Roo(though you'd have to change their move sets quite a it, and add a Trick a Roomer or to, of course.)

Your Glaceon does you no favors, with a horrendous typing that bunches up weaknesses, an extremely redundant moveset, and the fact that it eats up your lefties, which should go on Swampert(assuming you don't go Mega, which you probably won't, considering this is hail instead of rain.) You don't want two ice moves on Aurorus, or any Pokemon for that matter, and I think Discharge is a great move, especially for Triples. There are plenty of other good choices for Aurorus' moveset, like Haze and Dual Screens(I love this thing's move pool, if not the Pokemon itself), so there is no reason to have redundant coverage, and/or weak coverage moves(Rock Throw!!!seriously?)

Hariyama has all sorts of options, such as Life Orb with Sheer Force, and I'd look into them. Safety Goggles aren't terrible, as you block Spore, but they seem less good in Triples, when the opponent will be less likely to target any specific Pokemon on your side with Spore/Sleep Powder(their Sleep-inducer may not even be able to reach you, for instance.) If you're really worried about that, then use a cleric. Also, while Brave is the preferred nature for Hariyama if it's being run under Trick Room, why are you using it without Trick Room.

I like Infernape, and while you might want Acrobatics for Mega Venusaur, you can't have a permanent item with it like Life Orb, but no item is really bad. I think a good compromise would be a disposable item(I.e. a Lum Berry.) Infernape also has lots of other options(why aren't you using a speed boosting nature?), such as Overheat, Close Combat, Fake Out(which is great in Triples), Quick Guard, and even Helping Hand. Play around with its set, even if the only thing you end up changing is the nature, it'll still be a pretty big improvement.

Your Walrein doesn't look bad, but I'm not sure it's good, either. Super Fang is a great move on something that has fairly poor coverage and good, but not great, SpA. Curse is definitely interesting(though I'd probably stay away from Belly Drum.) Roar and Yawn make good sense if you are going to use Stealth Rock, and Sheer Cold is legal in Battle Spot(don't use Fissure.)

Sorry for the long post-I got bored.
 
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Xerneas is banned. I like the idea of a Hail team, but there are a couple big issues with your team. First and foremost is you need a Mega. You just gotta have 'me these days, there's really no way around it(though it would be kind of amazing if someone did good without one.) If you are going to play Triples(I don't), you should have more moves suited for a format where there are more than two Pokemon on the field. The most obvious example is Protect, though moves like Feint, Fake Out, Wide Guard, Follow Me and Rage Powder, which have little or no use, for the most part, in Singles, can be quite great in Doubles and Triples-there's no reason to play Triples if you don't utilize these kinds of moves, since you will be at a significant disadvantage. You've got spread moves covered(obviously), but it's worth noting that field conditions(you clearly already have Hail) are extra helpful, since you have multiple Pokemon out that can benefit from them. For instance, a lot of your Pokemon would function well in Trick Roo(though you'd have to change their move sets quite a it, and add a Trick a Roomer or to, of course.)

Your Glaceon does you no favors, with a horrendous typing that bunches up weaknesses, an extremely redundant moveset, and the fact that it eats up your lefties, which should go on Swampert(assuming you don't go Mega, which you probably won't, considering this is hail instead of rain.) You don't want two ice moves on Aurorus, or any Pokemon for that matter, and I think Discharge is a great move, especially for Triples. There are plenty of other good choices for Aurorus' moveset, like Haze and Dual Screens(I love this thing's move pool, if not the Pokemon itself), so there is no reason to have redundant coverage, and/or weak coverage moves(Rock Throw!!!seriously?)

Hariyama has all sorts of options, such as Life Orb with Sheer Force, and I'd look into them. Safety Goggles aren't terrible, as you block Spore, but they seem less good in Triples, when the opponent will be less likely to target any specific Pokemon on your side with Spore/Sleep Powder(their Sleep-inducer may not even be able to reach you, for instance.) If you're really worried about that, then use a cleric. Also, while Brave is the preferred nature for Hariyama if it's being run under Trick Room, why are you using it without Trick Room.

I like Infernape, and while you might want Acrobatics for Mega Venusaur, you can't have a permanent item with it like Life Orb, but no item is really bad. I think a good compromise would be a disposable item(I.e. a Lum Berry.) Infernape also has lots of other options(why aren't you using a speed boosting nature?), such as Overheat, Close Combat, Fake Out(which is great in Triples), Quick Guard, and even Helping Hand. Play around with its set, even if the only thing you end up changing is the nature, it'll still be a pretty big improvement.

Your Walrein doesn't look bad, but I'm not sure it's good, either. Super Fang is a great move on something that has fairly poor coverage and good, but not great, SpA. Curse is definitely interesting(though I'd probably stay away from Belly Drum.) Roar and Yawn make good sense if you are going to use Stealth Rock, and Sheer Cold is legal in Battle Spot(don't use Fissure.)

Sorry for the long post-I got bored.
I have already mentioned the changes I have made to my Infernape and My Aurorus. Thank you for your helpful suggestions and a lot of what you said makes sense. I don't appreciate the condescending remarks tho. I am new to competitive battling. I am just learning about the proper way to EV train. While trying to fix this team I am currently working on a sandstorm team. So I do appreciate your advice and will make changes accordingly. But please approach things in a slightly nicer fashion. Thank you :)
 
I have already mentioned the changes I have made to my Infernape and My Aurorus. Thank you for your helpful suggestions and a lot of what you said makes sense. I don't appreciate the condescending remarks tho. I am new to competitive battling. I am just learning about the proper way to EV train. While trying to fix this team I am currently working on a sandstorm team. So I do appreciate your advice and will make changes accordingly. But please approach things in a slightly nicer fashion. Thank you :)
Sorry, that was maybe a bit harsh. If you switch Rock Throw for Rock Slide on Aurorus(which definitely makes sense,) then a Quiet Nature is best. I know you took the Life Orb off Infernape, which is good, but I think you should still have some item, just a disposable one so you can still get a 110 BP Acrobatics(Coba Berry, maybe?) I look forward to seeing your Sandstorm team, and I'll try to be more tactful when I rate that team.
 
Sorry, that was maybe a bit harsh. If you switch Rock Throw for Rock Slide on Aurorus(which definitely makes sense,) then a Quiet Nature is best. I know you took the Life Orb off Infernape, which is good, but I think you should still have some item, just a disposable one so you can still get a 110 BP Acrobatics(Coba Berry, maybe?) I look forward to seeing your Sandstorm team, and I'll try to be more tactful when I rate that team.
Thank you very much. Your insight has been quite helpful. And I now know the proper way to ev train so as to be able to do the math correct. My hail team isn't bad, but I think maybe some day I will invest the proper time and put full heart into building it. And I totally agree that a coba berry would work very well for Infernape.
 

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